How to Talk About Games #2

[burningdragoon]

Mario, Gordon, and Master Chief may barely qualify as characters, but they are certainly more qualified the fucking L block.

 

[The Wooster]

Also, in defense of Resident Evil's narrative; it's not exactly good, and the dialogue is poorly written, but the mystery behind it all and the documents and files you find create an atmosphere that is palpable and intriguing, and that's just enough to hook me in and be invested in what was happening. So, it had a bad narrative, but I still liked it, if that makes any sense.

Makes perfect sense, and it's a perfectly legitimate opinion. There is something compelling about the case files, but I think that's more in how they're presented (They're tied up in the gameplay) rather than their actual content. It's a stretch to go from "hey, this part of the game is okay" to "WESKER IS A GOOD CHARACTER."

 

[lacktheknack]

Oh God, you said Gordon Freeman may not have been a good character.

shitstorm snip

In retrospect, this post was so off that it's hilarious.

Because everyone MUST DEFEND THE CHIPTUNES, the most overrated music style in... ever.

 

[Something Amyss]

Sigh ... This comic used to be better when they didn't slapped in our face how vastly superior gamer the author is, in comparison of us lowly fan boys....

That time never really existed.

I mean, I don't think they're doing it now, but they haven't really changed up the message much. Was it okay to be "slapped in the face" back when colourful surrogates did it instead? Was it the pretense that it was someone other than the author (Erin and her rogue's gallery) that made such a "slap" easier to swallow?

I'm just curious. This isn't anything really new for CM.

Unless you mean the superficiality. In which case you might as well complain that you miss the days of Erin's pointy head, because that made the comics superior.

Mario, Gordon, and Master Chief may barely qualify as characters, but they are certainly more qualified the fucking L block.

But you see, in the extended universe, the L Block is quite a deep character. You see....

I don't understand the love of video game music myself. Doesn't seem like a programmer at a keyboard coming up with a tune at the last minute playing only about 4 notes can be... ya know, something worth covering by a bunch of musicians who spend the bulk of their time focused on playing and usually writing music.

It's associated with something beloved, so people get in on it.

 

[Something Amyss]

Oh God, you said Gordon Freeman may not have been a good character.

shitstorm snip

In retrospect, this post was so off that it's hilarious.

Because everyone MUST DEFEND THE CHIPTUNES, the most overrated music style in... ever.

I don't think anyone saw that shift coming.

Seriously, I thought people were going to lose it over their self-inserts as well.

 

[otakon17]

"Horrible 16 bit soundtracks"? You and I need to have a little chat outside Carter.

I'll get the Customer Appreciation Bat, you hold him down. Anyway, funny comic once again.

 

[Denamic]

This comic strikes true with surgical precision, except for one thing... This "Horrible 16 bit soundtracks" remark... I'm sorry, but we have to put you down. It's the only way. Shh, it's only going to hurt for a moment, it'll be okay. Shh.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Did you just insult Seiken Densetsu 3's soundtrack?
Them's fightin' words.

Outside. Now.
Pistols at 20.

Cory and/or Grey is/are going through some form of crisis and they're spouting inflammatory nonsense.

Don't prod and pester them, it will pass.

Get well soon.

 

[irishda]

Oh God, you said Gordon Freeman may not have been a good character.

http://s17.postimg.org/3lqhbffrz/sailor_says_there_be_a_shit_storm_brewing.jpg

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gordon Freeman is exactly the same as Bella.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Notice how whenever people bring up excellent examples of retro soundtracks, they're all from brilliant games?

Au contraire, my frere.

You're generalizing and you know it.

I know you're right if we limit the range of submissions to people who were still swimming around as sperms or those that were barely there, destroying broken joysticks that were not even plugged in while their older siblings were playing games, hoping the little one would not find out.

I know you're very wrong when you allow me to broaden your demographic to the silent majority of people who have got shit to do these days, if they're still alive.

Gary Biasillo's title track to Target Renegade (C=64) is awesome. The game is not.

<youtube=ITWXylEkwPc>

Black Lamp was a rather dull, if not outright crap game. The music by Tim Follin was quite superb (C=64), breathing fresh air into people's expectations of what could be done with the chip that needed fondling in order to deliver great chiptunes. They were not called chiptunes back then, mind.

<youtube=HQFaUPA3He4>

Druid II: Enlightenment was an OK game, but it's been well forgotten these days, even though a lot of titles seem to call back to elements of it. The title track by David M. Hanlon has been covered many, many times. My personal favourite would be Reyn Ouwehands 2000 take on it as published on the Nexus 6581 album, which is also conveniently available on iTunes. More/some info and links here: http://www.remix64.com/track/reyn-ouwehand/enlightenment-druid-ii/

<youtube=8C3hwd_qHak>

Granted, these tracks hold more power over those that were exposed to them at a young age. Still, with more people having more watts and volume at their disposal, let me tell you that these tracks still easily grind into people's brains, blasting them away. Even before we get to talk about all the remixes (such as http://remix.kwed.org/) these tracks inspired, just run them on the stereo in your car or grant them free reign over your 800 watt home cinema speakers.

And then there's the fact that there's plenty of reasons why people still play C=64 music on organs, tesla coils or rewrite and expand the little ditties to be played by whole orchestras. So - please, with sugar on top, don't be a prick. Don't be that guy.

I hope you acknowledge that I limited my arguments to a tiny little share of the games available on one system of the 8-bit era. Don't get me started on Amiga, I'd have to resort to calling you unfavourable titles, such as fascist hipster punk, before I'd invite you over for a little session of fisticuffs, during which I'd want to stick my thumbs into your ears and scratch out your eyes.

Have a nice day.

 

[Vigormortis]

To be fair, without Gordon Freeman to imprint on, a lot of people simply wouldn't have cared.

Not sure that's entirely true.

I agree that part of the affection many gamers have for the series is derived from their projecting of their own personalities onto the Freeman vessel, thus feeling as though Freeman's journey is their own. However, the reason that journey is so memorable is because of the characters, settings, and events the players experienced.

It's very likely the primary reason he is viewed as a "great character". That being: gamers subconsciously viewing him as themselves.

And, unless you're a masochist or something, why would you vote against yourself?

It's weird that people will bash others for imprinting on a player avatar but defend chiptune music, since about the only reason most people listen to such music is a similar form of association. Kind of the point in the first place. It's weird that people will identify the one process and cheer it then jeer it in another instance.

It's not just chiptunes, either.

Hypocrisy. Isn't it a wonderful thing? Especially when the person engaging in it isn't even aware they're doing it.

Not to call anyone out but it's something that seems to happen quite often around here lately.

I just want to point out that I don't think I took exception to anything. Then again, this reads like a laundry list of issues I have with gaming/gamers/gamer response. Critical Miss and the Jimquisition border on my own personal Fox News Bubble.

Sad to say even great sites like The Escapist aren't free of that kind of sensationalist journalism.

You answered your own question. "Good within the allotted restrictions" doesn't mean "good overall."

And that Batman track was just awful.

Absolutely right.

However, I would still argue that quite a few 8 and 16 bit soundtracks from 'back-in-the-day' were still very well composed pieces of music. Some even brilliant by todays standards.

It takes quite a bit of skill to compose a good piece of music. Properly writing each melody and orchestrating all the disparate sounds and instruments into a cohesive soundscape. However, I would say it takes an equal level of skill and craftsmanship to compose a catchy and compelling piece when your range of instruments and sounds are very limited.

For example, the soundtrack to Donkey Kong Country still holds up as a very well composed bit of game music -

So yes, I agree that "good within it's limitations" does not equate to "good overall". But at the same time, "having limitations" doesn't equate to "a lesser compared to higher complexity".

 

[Matt Dellar]

I love both orchestral arrangements and chiptunes.

If you look at the synth as just another musical instrument, it's pretty easy to enjoy orchestras on the same level as chiptunes.

-

(Disclaimer: I wasn't exposed to video games until the mid 2000's, when chiptunes were far phased out. I don't have any nostalgia goggles in my inventory. I just like a variety of music styles.)

Regardless of all that, I enjoyed the comic. I seriously do wish Corvo of Dishonored would speak, because while I'm controlling his actions, I'm not really projecting myself onto him -- I've never had the sort of power fantasies many games are intended to satisfy -- I just want to experience his story.

 

[RaNDM G]

I think we can both agree what the true superior form of music is in any regard can't we?


Acapella

Nay, Sir. In Metal.

 

[thebakedpotato]

I don't understand the love of video game music myself. Doesn't seem like a programmer at a keyboard coming up with a tune at the last minute playing only about 4 notes can be... ya know, something worth covering by a bunch of musicians who spend the bulk of their time focused on playing and usually writing music.

It's associated with something beloved, so people get in on it.

I can buy that. Kinda like how the old folks at work sing the Duck tales song from time to time.

 

[The Random One]

We need a name for that phallacy. I suggest Sandwich Folly.

 

[thanatos388]

And just what IS wrong with catchy chip tunes? Their simplicity is what makes them special and stick with you after you have played even if they are not as complex as the orchestral tracks of today

Do you listen to a lot of player piano music?

I'm betting you wouldn't give it the time of day. That's okay, though, it just means you're the average gamer.

It's weird that people will bash others for imprinting on a player avatar but defend chiptune music, since about the only reason most people listen to such music is a similar form of association. Kind of the point in the first place. It's weird that people will identify the one process and cheer it then jeer it in another instance.

It's not just chiptunes, either.

Thats a bit presumptuous no? I do listen to piano music and some player piano music and many types of music. And what do you mean by "average gamer"? Someone who just plays Call of Duty and WOW? I doubt those types of gamers would listen to chip tunes very much. I never bashed anyone for imprinting on a silent protagonist. My words were harsh in retrospect. I meant that being a "fan" of a "character" that was basically something that just represents the player was odd. They do not make the game the events do so its really fandom by association or character design not for the character themselves. And next time try not to trample me with your horse alright?

 

[thanatos388]

Notice how whenever people bring up excellent examples of retro soundtracks, they're all from brilliant games?

You telling me this isn't an amazing work of musical genius? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iknsyBj-OeQ

 

[Weaver]

I like chiptune tracks. Even on games I haven't played I usually dig them. And, not having played them I don't really think I could hold nostalgia for them.

 

[Ipsen]

I don't understand the love of video game music myself. Doesn't seem like a programmer at a keyboard coming up with a tune at the last minute playing only about 4 notes can be... ya know, something worth covering by a bunch of musicians who spend the bulk of their time focused on playing and usually writing music.

It's associated with something beloved, so people get in on it.

You mention association as if the music wasn't part of the game anyway.

In a rather solid perspective, in most cases, that is true; take the one core element of video games, which is game-play, and you could forget (or just go to options and turn down) the music. It's actually my dream for games to incorporate musical or rhythmic concepts into its interactions. But on the grounds that most developers seem to take, to add music simply to help with 'immersion', when it works, the game is exponentially better. Music (used in this way) has near zilch effect on the game-play, but it surely can bring out our emotions (which, while also not directly important to the game-play itself, sure is for the experience in general).

I am having Dragmire's experience, in that I cannot recall 8 or 16 bit games that are bad, but have good soundtracks, though HeadDriveHardScrew might be onto something.

I also can't buy the comparison between 'a bunch of musicians' and 'a programmer at a keyboard'. I can see the scenario for its time period and to how music is used in games, but it's not a given. What if that programmer was a musician as well? Good game or even not, if a programmer puts in the focus to make engaging music in a game, they earn their musician card, holding the same clout as one using classical instruments.

The thread is in a bit of a tizzy over the 16-bit music quip, I'll say because we're attributing the almighty 'good/bad' descriptor to what amounts to one of humanity's most important forms of expression (totally a novel idea!). I just can't see it as a solidly landed joke ; all genres become grating with too much listening. I personally can't stick with a genre forever; I listen to other types of music to cleanse my musical palate (and thus find love in varying attempts at music. 16-bit is no different).

 

[The Wooster]

We need a name for that phallacy. I suggest Sandwich Folly.

"Phallacy"

On a more serious note, Cory and I were going to call it the Capcom fallacy.