Hybrid Multiplayer Mess

[DefiantWolf]

I see a lot of people mentioning "Zombie Master" or even "Empires" as excellent examples of Multiplayer hybrids. But they all suffered from one fatal flaw...

The players. You get a bad commander in Empires (or an uncooperative team as the commander) or a 10 year old Zombie Master - the game would get very unfun very fast. But then again, that is the fundamental flaw with multiplayer these days: it's full of a bunch of foul-mouthed, tea-bagging, smacktards with no sense of sportsmanship.

The original Natural Selection (Classicmode, not combat mode) also had a commander in it as well. The game included other RTS elements in it's FPS which included the taking of resource points. But again, it depended heavily on the commander and it's marine team working together and being competent. Something you just can't find in the common pug of smacktards.

But, it's not to say the games didn't have their merits. You get a good bunch of players in any of the above, and they were truly memorable experiances. The hybrids can be done, but they just depend too heavily on people you can't trust to make them worthwhile.

 

[plainlake]

Ahh good times...

 

[Garfy]

That game described at the end sounds just like the old board game Space Hulk.

 

[KDR_11k]

I think the cost of game development and AAA polish is the reason Nintendo intentionally crippled the Wii graphically (you think they couldn't build or buy something better than an overclocked Gamecube if they wanted?). With motion control they had to experiment and on a weaker console that's much cheaper to do.

 

[CplDustov]

Someone start a Facebook campaign for the video game idea proposed at the end there. Facebook's the only way things get done these days.

something similar already exists. Half life 2 mod... zombie... panic something like that.

 

[Uszi]

The idea wound hinge on your monster pawns having tactical advantages or disadvantages in some situations...

So, maybe there are leaping monsters that walk on walls which will be more effective in large rooms. Or maybe there are dudes who swing giant maces very slowly, and they are best positioned right around the corner, in in dark nooks/crannies.

Also, 1v1 sounds slightly boring to me. 1v4 or 1v5 sounds a lot more interesting. Especially if you did it where the group of players running through the labyrinth could choose between a number of different classes with different strengths and weaknesses.

I do really like the idea of the dungeon master type person being able to inhabit the body of a select monster. Might make for some interesting boss battles.

 

[FarmerMonkey]

Am I wrong, or does Yahtzee chastise Brutal Legend for mixing RTS/direct control, and then at the end of the article propose the same concept as one side of a new multiplayer game?

Or maybe his point was that half of Brutal Legend's single-player campaign was a standard action-adventure game that cut over to the aforementioned design.

I actually liked Brutal Legend a lot, and I'm not a metal guy. But I do think the pre-release demo was a HUGE bait-and-switch. I just happened to enjoy both facets of the game.

 

[Something Amyss]

Hybrid Multiplayer in Mindjack sounded like a really good idea.

Right up until people gave feedback.

I do think it could be done and I like the suggestions, so I'm hoping soon we see the first GOOD hybrid multiplayer title of this sort.

 

[zjspeed]

Valve experimented with a hybrid FPS and RTS for Team Fortress 2 very early in its development.



Team Fortress 2 was to be a modern war game, with a command hierarchy including a commander with a bird's-eye view of the battlefield, parachute drops over enemy territory, networked voice communication and numerous other innovations. ... Valve had quietly built "probably three to four different games" before settling on their final design.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_fortress_2#Origins

 

[MailOrderClone]

I've always thought that Mindjack had gotten the multiplayer backwards. Rather then going and making competitive multiplayer where-in players would barge into other players' games and grief them to kingdom come, the mode should have instead have been made a co-operative game, where-in players would break in and play as the sidekick character whats-her-face, or as any bystander that happens to be loitering around at that moment. It takes down the partner AI problems as well as the multiplayer issues all in one fell swoop.

Which is all water under the collapsed bridge that was the rest of the game.

 

[Mosop]

There is already a mod for Unreal Tournament 3 called the haunted that has a game mode very similar to the one described, if intrested you should check it out, http://forum.i3d.net/unreal-series/58012-ut-3-mod-haunted-v3-0-updated.html

 

[Chewster]

Don't know if this counts, but the original Perfect Dark did a decent job at their multiplayer/single player hybrid attempt, where people could play as the main girl, and the other person could play as all the weakling grunts, though one at a time.

Maybe it was the localization that made it work. I think that having a few people play a team of weak thugs (who will then take over an idle one when killed) would be a fun game to play with people you can actually see and yell at.

Can't remember if that was an option in Perfect Dark for more then one opponent or not or not, but the multiplayer in that game had so many decent options, it was mind-boggling.

 

[KraGeRzR]

Savage 2 A Tortured Soul is an example of a hybrid RTS/RPG that's incredibly fun to play and never gets boring.

It's also an MMO.

 

[Zom-B]

What I was trying to get across was the idea that if you make a game (for example) 40% RPG, 30% FPS and 30% Sandbox you will appeal to all of the demographics you cover, but will not give a 100% experience to any of them. So, to [user]draythefingerless[/user] and [user]InterAirplay[/user], this was what I was really driving at - the idea that whilst crossovers appeal to nearly everyone they very rarely fully satisfy anyone. To split a gaming experience even 90%/10% is to let one side or the other miss out on a 100% game.

I guess then I would counter with, what is a 100% sandbox game? What is 100% RPG? Even an FPS which we might think of as easy to define in terms of a percentage value might not be so easy to pigeonhole. Many FPS games incorporate a large open world as RPGs. Does this make them less FPS or RPG?

Further, a game like say, Black Ops, which is very definitely in the FPS genre has been criticized for linear level design and not having a lot of player choice involved, and I've heard that in fact you can practically let the single player campaign play itself, and yet this game and it's predecessors sold as many, if not more copies than either Fallout game.

I don't think genre blending has any real impact on game sales or popularity. I think what it comes down to is a quality product (despite some bugs, looking at you FNV) with a compelling world and visual look will often be a sales driver and most gamers won't care if it has gameplay elements from different genres.

 

[Grabbin Keelz]

I remember Perfect Dark for the N64 having a split-screen function where the second player would control a random enemy. It was funny because as the enemy, you had the option of taking a suicide pill. So I just kept jumping from enemy to enemy making them create mass suicide so my friend could freely roam the level.

 

[Trolldor]

For those talking about Zombie master, one thing you're missing is the whole idea of the ZM only gets points as the team advances.

That said, my version of the RTS vs. FPS idea is a Batman game. Batman plays FPS style (of course) hunting down the mooks and muggers of the RTS player as they attempt to collect resources so that he can complete his super-villain plot, which he has to balance out with recruiting more bad guys or building traps for Batman, etc. As the game progresses, Batman interrogates the badguys and bit by bit learns clues as to the villain's location, eventually leading to a final showdown where both players are FPS, but villain is hopelessly outmatched (of course) unless he's got a bunch of underlings with him which might give him a chance.

..what?
An FPS batman? Really?
Talk about horrid concept.

As for Zombie Master, no you get a regular stream of resources from the very beginning. It increases as the team advances, but you are always getting that stream.

 

[mikespoff]

now that's an interesting game idea.

I'm also not a fan of teh current-gen graphics. Not because they look bad - they're gorgeous. But there is so much focus on making things pretty for the box art and promotional screenshots that they forget how to make things fun, well written and creative.

I enjoyed Borderlands partly because of its retro step in graphics - they looked good, but still looked a bit cartoony. I think replicating that level of graphics would be easier for a low-budget developer. (also, it was great that you never found yourself lost in the dark in that game).

 

[mikespoff]

I'm looking forward to a Left4Dead kind of game that doesn't involve zombies. I like the idea of an AI director, and I think that L4D has taught Valve a lot about how to make it work (see Alien Swarm as another good example). But I don't like zombie games, so I'm looking forward to something in a nicer setting with a similar director.

 

[xFullmetalx]

MindJack.....his name is Jim and you hack rather than Jack......not sure where they were going with that. Once again, another entertaining Zero Punctuation.