I Think I've Reached A Boiling Point When It Comes To Social Justice

[Colour Scientist]

To be fair, all you have to find just about any flavor of SJW on the Escapist is to click on one of the many misleading or enflaming threads that land on this site's very front page. Or to just read Critical Miss. Because apparently according to JGC et al, I deserve to die.

You deserve to die?
LOL
Please tell me why. Is it because you're white or straight or just because you aren't another SJW?

Did you actually read what you just posted?
That's so dramatic, I don't even. You know, some people rattle on and on about SJWs having persecution complexes but then you see other people reacting in an equally dramatic way and taking everything as a person attack.

Player One: There should be more representation in video games."
Player Two: "Oh my God, stop calling me a misogynist/racist/rapist, why don't I just go die then?"


Like seriously, I regularly see people posting about how others think they need to die because they're straight white guys or whatever, it's ridiculous. Yes, I know there are posts that attack men or accuse people of being ignorant/oppressive but I only ever see people bring it up when those kinds of posts aren't actually present.
People need to chill the beans.

 

[Saetha]

I see people bitching about it more than I actually see people who act like "social justice warriors," whatever that even means.

This, I don't even know what a "social justice warrior" is, I've only heard the term from people pissing and moaning about these imaginary/insignificant group of people. Never in my life have I met someone at Uni/work/on a night out who've said "I'm a social justice warrior!" or "Guess what I've been getting into? Social justice warriorism" or "Oh, I can't come, I'll be doing my Social Justice Warrior bit on Friday." They just don't seem to exist in the real world as far I can tell, like the Yeti and vampires they seem to only exist on the darkest depths of the internet or in the minds of the mentally ill.

For the record, the Escapist quite literally has a column now titled "Social Justice Warrior."

And furthermore... no one purposely identifies as an SJW (Except that fellow who started the SJW editorial, apparently) just as no one self-identifies as a racist bigot, or a sexist jerk. It's a label that's (Supposed to be) applied to people who exhibit a certain behavior. Saying SJWs don't exist because you've never seen someone self-identify as one is like saying homophobes and misogynists don't exist because you've never seen someone self-identify as such.

But, just like accusations of sexism and racism, it's a term that's often misapplied by people who are simply trying to slander their opponent. Really, the creation of the term and subsequent abuse of it just shows that both sides of this debate are pretty much as bad as the other. It's a sad state affairs, really. Finding sensible, out-spoken individuals that don't swing too far either way is difficult.

This is why I mostly try to stay out of it. That, and while I enjoy debate, I find it's mentally exhausting. When I started really digging deep into this debate, it began to creep into the rest of my life and suck out much of the enjoyment I got from other interests. It gets to be a lot, you know? So I try not to bother. When I see someone egregiously, demonstrably wrong, it's hard to stay out, but usually when I see something I disagree with but can't immediately prove, I just turn on a movie and try to forget about it. It's not worth my time.

 

[AJ_Lethal]

I think a lot of women are tired of seeing things significantly worse than some mean words on Tumblr. Things like rape, sexual exploitation, harassment, abuse, the denial of economic opportunity, disparities in education and employment, etc. That seems like a bigger bummer.

Uh... I've seen disturbing thought processes from SJWs in Tumblr. They will crucify you just for being a straight white dude, for starters.

 

[shootthebandit]

Its really a simple issue. Social justice boils down to "dont be a dick"

If you are a racist, sexist, homophobe etc then you are a dick

 

[Loonyyy]

bigots

pointless ad hominem.

The ironing is strong with this one.

Did I use the term bigot as a refutation of an argument? No? Then it's not ad hominem.

Whereas the use of SJW is nearly always meant as exactly that. It's nothing more than trying to tell someone to stop caring about something.

Additionally, if the problem someone has with something is that it's bigoted (Which is often the complaint), there's no ad hominem in that-it's literally the claim.

I'll use an actual ad hominem now though-you have no interest in actual discussion, nor understanding of my post, and I've seen your post history, so I know how this will go, so I am going to dismiss everything you say and block you, you aren't worth my time. It's not a thorough way of dealing with spurious nonsense, but it is an efficacious one.

 

[Saetha]

I think a lot of women are tired of seeing things significantly worse than some mean words on Tumblr. Things like rape, sexual exploitation, harassment, abuse, the denial of economic opportunity, disparities in education and employment, etc. That seems like a bigger bummer.

Hey there, Peruvianskys! So, I think your comment warrants a mention from that not all women are tired of seeing these things, as not all women have experienced them. As a woman, I can tell you I've never been raped, sexually exploited, or abused - and I must ask you refrain from gendering these things as subjects that only effect and upset women, seeing as men make up 40% or more of rape and domestic abuse victims. Which is not to say you should not tackle these issues, as they are truly awful, but since the gender symmetry is often ignored or dismissed, I have to request that you acknowledge it. Similarly, while I've had few chances, I haven't been denied economic opportunity either, nor have I faced disparities in education. As a matter of fact, considering the abundance of women-only scholarships, women-only schools, and the fact that 60% of college graduates are female, I'm not entirely sure how one can claim women face disparities in education (In the west, at least)

I'm aware that my experiences don't speak for all women everywhere, but then, neither do yours. Thank you!

(Some sources for the stuff I claimed here:

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_are_sexually_assaulted.html

http://www.medicaldaily.com/domestic-violence-against-males-40-victims-are-men-so-why-are-we-still-ignoring-it-284682

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2012/02/16/the-male-female-ratio-in-college/ )

 

[Thaluikhain]

I think a lot of women are tired of seeing things significantly worse than some mean words on Tumblr. Things like rape, sexual exploitation, harassment, abuse, the denial of economic opportunity, disparities in education and employment, etc. That seems like a bigger bummer.

Hey there, Peruvianskys! So, I think your comment warrants a mention from that not all women are tired of seeing these things, as not all women have experienced them. As a woman, I can tell you I've never been raped, sexually exploited, or abused - and I must ask you refrain from gendering these things as subjects that only effect and upset women, seeing as men make up 40% or more of rape and domestic abuse victims. Which is not to say you should not tackle these issues, as they are truly awful, but since the gender symmetry is often ignored or dismissed, I have to request that you acknowledge it. Similarly, while I've had few chances, I haven't been denied economic opportunity either, nor have I faced disparities in education. As a matter of fact, considering the abundance of women-only scholarships, women-only schools, and the fact that 60% of college graduates are female, I'm not entirely sure how one can claim women face disparities in education (In the west, at least)

I'm aware that my experiences don't speak for all women everywhere, but then, neither do yours. Thank you!

Peruvianskys did say "a lot of women", not "all women", mind.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

To be perfectly frank...95% of my Tumblr usage winds up being porn related.

The other 5% is ask blogs...95% of which are porn related.

As for SJW issues? I'm primarily seeing them here and on my news feeds relating to gaming/atheism/science, though it's been cropping up a lot more in recent months on, well, pretty much every facet of news media that I'm receiving, be it from facebook, youtube, tumblr, or etc.

Being someone highly in favor of stomping out political correctness as an ideology...it's wearisome to the nth degree and has only gotten worse over time.

I mean. It's like living in a world of zealots and thought police, harkening back to the days of the church's inquisition, wherein a man or woman could be found "wanting" or downright socially tortured/ostracized for their views or speech-

OHLOOKAKITTEN.

I'm sorry, I don't know what came over me. Where was I? Oh, yes! Speech is being treated as though it were a physical act and, more often than not, one that results in a crime being committed against the recipient. If these SJW folks have their way, I wouldn't be able to make slippery slope arguments like this without fear of vengeful-

OHMYGODAPUPPYLOOKATHISWIDDLEFACE.

- I...I apologize.

What? What the hell are you looking at me like that for? Haven't you ever seen a grown man retreating into a refuge composed of unassailable cuteness in order to insulate himself from the ever darkening world in which he lives!?

Well!? Haven't you!?


Or, alternatively, I'll just play a game, remember why I got into the hobby and why I love it, then move on with my day.

 

[SacremPyrobolum]

Go to 4chan. It's cathartic.

PS. Why do people quote the entire OP in their responses? Isn't it a given that you are responding to it whenever you post without quoting someone else?

 

[mecegirl]

Tumblr is easy to make into an echo chamber. If someone regularly posts things you don't want to see just block them. When I first joined tumblr I followed any blog that happened to follow me. I thought that it was the polite thing to do. I quickly learned that that was a mistake. Like holy shit I don't give a fuck about Supernatural stop flooding my dash, mistake. And sometimes random porn blogs will follow people, and I'm cool with porn, just not all porn, the same way most people aren't cool with all porn because not all porn is arousing to everyone. And beyond that I'm not sexually attracted to women. So while pictures of naked women don't bother me(I follow blogs that post such things), even erotic pictures of naked women don't bother me(I follow blogs that post such things), I'm not keen on scrolling down my dash and seeing a close up of some woman's "business"(I unfollowed blogs that post such things).

Also, there is a program called Tumblr savior. It allows you to blacklist certain tags. That way if you follow someone, and you like the cat gifs, but don't like their opinion on politics, so long as they are in the habit of taging their posts then you will never see their posts on politics.

I actually follow blogs that would be considered SJW, and I really doesn't bother me. But it's because I follow those blogs that I know how easy they are to avoid. Of course one doesn't have to do much to be considered a SJW blog. Something as simple as being a blog that posts about sci fi and fantasy books written by and staring POC is enough to be labeled a SJW blog. But as for the actual, this is a blog to talk about social issues, type blog. I follow some. For instance, I follow a blog about and for Native Americans. And on the blog there are pictures of people in traditional dress,and posts about history, but there are also posts about protests (actual standing outside with picket signs protests).

 

[Wraith]

First of all, thanks everyone for replying to this crap I posted. The escapist is my number 1 place for discussion on, well, pretty much anything. So I'll try and speak to everyone who has directed something at me or who have questioned my reasoning in one long ass message. Here we go.

Yes, it does get very tiring to have to listen to the problems of people who aren't you, and it's not fun to hear how the society that benefits you is treating others very badly. Ignoring things that don't (currently) affect you isn't a great response, though.

You as in a general you, or you as in me? Because if I'm going to reply to this, I want to know if I'm stealthily being called a privileged white male who doesn't like hearing others are suffering.

I dunno. From my outside perspective the whole thing just seems weird and unnecessary and a bit petty and full of very angry and slightly frothy people who very obviously feel threatened one way or another.

That's kind of what I've been slowly discovering, yeah. I'm just using this thread here to expand on my exasperation. Admittedly my exasperation is blamed solely on my own self-destructive exploration.

I've brought this up before but I doubt that most people who moan about tumblr have ever actually spent a significant amount of time there, they just form their impressions from stuff linked by people who go looking for trouble.

Depends on how we define significant; I've been using it for about 6 months and it was shockingly easy to stumble into the nastier ends of the site for me. I first went in just wanting to follow funny blogs, so I searched the tag 'funny'. First couple of things to show up were blogs using the tag funny to make fun of male suffrage. So from there it became me following blogs that were sharing suicide hotlines to suicidal bloggers and who'd demolish the arguments of ironically bigoted "feminists". But again during that time I would wholeheartedly follow something that dabbled in sociopolitical discussion.

Yeah, pretty much this. I've been using tumblr for a few years now and I pretty much never come across "SJW drama". Also kinda tired of the amount of hyperbole in these threads.

Can you tell me what exactly I'm being hyperbolic about? Because if you're in doubt of my examples of what I saw on a regular basis on those sites I can give you a few scans. Not trying to be confrontational or anything, I'm just curious as too what you don't believe.

you know...if it hurts you that much you could just...not click there

Uh, yeah. That's what I'm saying I'm going to stop doing because it's become too boring and frustrating. I'm just sharing my experience and the aftermath of my constant reading.

And whatever Social Justice Warrior is intended to mean, what it means is "people who think different than me." I've been called one for pointing out factual, even numerical errors. The latter made me the "worst kind" of social justice warrior: apparently, the ability to read numbers is devastating to non-SJWs.

Yeah, that's terrible, but I can't lie and say I haven't seen the same for the words misogynist and racist. I remember that thread we had long ago where people were discussing how they were called a racist in person and most of the instances were because a white person didn't bend over backwards for a minority. When I use SJW (which is rare as fuck) it's meant to mean a 'person or group of people who use the guise of social issues to be bigoted or even oppressive to those perceived as having privilege'. Basically an unruly freedom fighter. Someone who instead of doing non-violent marches or spreads informative documents, decides it's best to go out and disrupt discussion and spreads misinformation. I'm sorry that you were falsely accused of being something you're not, I really am. It's happened to me before. I empathize.

Okay, this is a new one to me. I have never, in my 32 years, found a single person on the internet or real life who has ever expressed this sentiment. Not one. Ever. While I have no doubt that if you start lifting rocks over the more pathetic corners of the internet you might find such people crawling about but even so, you really need to make an effort of it. If you just go around looking for something to be offended about, you will inevitably find it.

That's the thing though, I didn't specifically go out to find shit like that, it was just there on its own, posted in the notes of a male rape victim's blog after he described his horrific attack. Yes, I did enjoy reading up on the different discussions going on for stuff like this, but I did not expect such viciousness. I don't think anyone could really prepare for that. I agree with your last sentence, yes, but I myself did not intend to find vitriolic rape denial after reading someone's life story.

Also, my mom had for years chaired the social justice committee at her church. You might want to take a look at the roots of the term and what it's practitioners actually believe. (hint: it mostly involves finding ways to help the destitute)

Then your mom is not a part of the people I am talking about and is actually very admirable. Tell her I support her and those she works with in what they do.

Welcome to growing up and becoming aware of all those younger than you desperately trying to change the future misguidedly trying to make it better.

And on top of that realizing you live in an age where certain bigots have found that they're prejudices are socially acceptable and are exploiting it to it's fullest.

I agree with both of these statements. Thank you for your input.

So many people disappointed with "social justice", wow.
Did anybody complaining about social justice here actually fight for something, or are we just talking about internet forums?

I was employed under Planned Parenthood for a while, helping pass on information and raise money for Women's Reproductive Rights. You ever see those people standing out on street corners with clipboards trying to get donations and signatures? Yeah, that was me. I am also planning to join the next Pride Parade when it comes into my city. My homebody ways have kept me from leaving the house for numerous of occasions. :/

Everything else is either through the internet, mild social gatherings or random encounters on the street. I try not to be mind-police to random strangers, but if there is a chance to discuss these issues with someone and hopefully make a dent in their ideology that's good enough for me. I try to keep my close friends and family in check most of all, though. The best thing I could currently do is not socialize with those who views could be defined as bigoted.

I imagine that isn't too much for you, but it's what I got. Plus, like I said, I was never a super hard advocate for social justice, I mean sure I'd sign petitions and spread the word around when given the chance, but all I did and ever planned on doing was learning more and being the change I wanted to see in others first. That's what I accomplished and now I might be burnt out.

--snip--

This is pretty much how I feel as a whole on the issue. You put it in better words than I could. If I could go back and make the OP be this, I would. Thank you for your input, sincerely.

--snip--

It's shocking how much I can relate to this. Seriously, you and agent9 have both pretty much summarized the different feelings I have been having recently. Like I told agent9, thank you for your input.

They kind of just storm in and say "GUYS! STOP BELIEVING IN THINGS! K THX BAI!" Its one thing to be opposed to a thesis, but to walk in and say "shut up" is childish, at best.

Yeah, I feel you on that. I hate that too. But I hope you're not getting that impression from my OP. I'm not saying these issues shouldn't be talked about, just that I can't be the one in the middle of the battle anymore do to overexposure and possible health risk (me noggin).

--snip--

This actually touched me a little. I don't think I'd ever give up on it 100%, I just won't be engaged as deeply as I was previously. It'd be stupid of me to allow things I believe to be wrong to persist, I'll just stop making reading things revolving around sociopolitical discussion an everyday hobby.

Also, thank you for your PM. It gave me a well needed chuckle, and made my opinion feel valued.

This is why I mostly try to stay out of it. That, and while I enjoy debate, I find it's mentally exhausting. When I started really digging deep into this debate, it began to creep into the rest of my life and suck out much of the enjoyment I got from other interests. It gets to be a lot, you know? So I try not to bother. When I see someone egregiously, demonstrably wrong, it's hard to stay out, but usually when I see something I disagree with but can't immediately prove, I just turn on a movie and try to forget about it. It's not worth my time.

I shall also chalk this up as what I've been becoming more like. It's becoming a, hey, if they think this way, nothing I do or say will change it, all I can do is tell them I disagree and why I disagree and move on.

Its really a simple issue. Social justice boils down to "dont be a dick"

If you are a racist, sexist, homophobe etc then you are a dick

Ha ha haaaa! Fully agreed with!

To be perfectly frank...95% of my Tumblr usage winds up being porn related.

The other 5% is ask blogs...95% of which are porn related.

As for SJW issues? I'm primarily seeing them here and on my news feeds relating to gaming/atheism/science, though it's been cropping up a lot more in recent months on, well, pretty much every facet of news media that I'm receiving, be it from facebook, youtube, tumblr, or etc.

Being someone highly in favor of stomping out political correctness as an ideology...it's wearisome to the nth degree and has only gotten worse over time.

I mean. It's like living in a world of zealots and thought police, harkening back to the days of the church's inquisition, wherein a man or woman could be found "wanting" or downright socially tortured/ostracized for their views or speech-

The site is kind of weird like that. Once you begin following a blog, you get bombarded with content from other blogs of the same caliber, so the minute I clicked follow on one SJ blog, I began to have other SJ blogs recommended to me by tumblr itself. I imagine if I went to some porn I'd get the same treatment, but I can't handle porn 24/7 bruh. Uh-uhh. Not me.



Again, thanks to everyone who replied. Hopefully we can continue discussing this in a civil and fun way.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Yes, it does get very tiring to have to listen to the problems of people who aren't you, and it's not fun to hear how the society that benefits you is treating others very badly. Ignoring things that don't (currently) affect you isn't a great response, though.

You as in a general you, or you as in me? Because if I'm going to reply to this, I want to know if I'm stealthily being called a privileged white male who doesn't like hearing others are suffering.

You as in a general you.

I'd certainly apply that to myself, though I think I'm getting...is "jaded" the word? When hearing about the same sort of horrific things turns into normal background noise? A lot of Social Justice stuff seems to be pointing out that same shit that keeps on happening still keeps on happening and is still shit.

 

[Wraith]

You as in a general you.

I'd certainly apply that to myself, though I think I'm getting...is "jaded" the word? When hearing about the same sort of horrific things turns into normal background noise? A lot of Social Justice stuff seems to be pointing out that same shit that keeps on happening still keeps on happening and is still shit.

Ah, okay. I didn't want to jump in here starting a squabble over something I misread. Thanks for clearing that up. And yeah, I can agree with you, to a point.

Capcha: pipe down

Oh, lawwd.

 

[Nieroshai]

To be fair, all you have to find just about any flavor of SJW on the Escapist is to click on one of the many misleading or enflaming threads that land on this site's very front page. Or to just read Critical Miss. Because apparently according to JGC et al, I deserve to die.

You deserve to die?
LOL
Please tell me why. Is it because you're white or straight or just because you aren't another SJW?

Did you actually read what you just posted?
That's so dramatic, I don't even. You know, some people rattle on and on about SJWs having persecution complexes but then you see other people reacting in an equally dramatic way and taking everything as a person attack.

Player One: There should be more representation in video games."
Player Two: "Oh my God, stop calling me a misogynist/racist/rapist, why don't I just go die then?"


Like seriously, I regularly see people posting about how others think they need to die because they're straight white guys or whatever, it's ridiculous. Yes, I know there are posts that attack men or accuse people of being ignorant/oppressive but I only ever see people bring it up when those kinds of posts aren't actually present.
People need to chill the beans.

If you haven't noticed the overt hate that comic has for nonliberals (I could link to the comics but you can go look just as easily) that isn't my problem. Critical Miss has BLATANTLY been about (or posted in the subscript) some extremely aggressive political views. Also, once again: this forum is FULL of Anita Sarkeesian threads, flame wars over why religion is killing the world, threads attributing the sexual assault of a woman by a mentally ill man to The Patriarchy, and other idiocy where the issue is lost and all we're doing is calling each other evil because we don't think the same and acting like victims when these arguments involve groups. This forum is only superficially about gaming anymore; for the most part it's about politics with a gaming theme, and in any political argument there's a good chance someone will play the victim because of a perceived slight towards whatever category they relate to, and a sense of entitlement will invariably rear its ugly head at some point. I did read what I posted, as well as what you posted, and while you so clearly disagree with me, we basically agree unless your words fail to clearly make your point.

Also, I'm not straight. Fun fact.

 

[Colour Scientist]

If you haven't noticed the overt hate that comic has for nonliberals (I could link to the comics but you can go look just as easily) that isn't my problem. Critical Miss has BLATANTLY been about (or posted in the subscript) some extremely aggressive political views. Also, once again: this forum is FULL of Anita Sarkeesian threads, flame wars over why religion is killing the world, threads attributing the sexual assault of a woman by a mentally ill man to The Patriarchy, and other idiocy where the issue is lost and all we're doing is calling each other evil .

How dramatic is your worldview?

I just saw your post in the thread about attributing sexual assault to "the patriarchy" and there was nothing of the sort going on in there. The OP put the word feminism in the title as click-bait, he said it himself, he isn't a feminist but this went way over your head and you decided to prattle on about the patriarchy.
Not a single other person in that thread uttered the term "the patriarchy," just you.

Most of the Anita Sarkeesian threads on these forums are to complain about her and Critical Miss pokes fun at some political views, it's hardly aggressive.

Look whatever dude, you can live in your bubble and carry on thinking that someone liking Anita Sarkeesian means that they think you deserve to die because reasons, that's your choice.

I just think the over-reactions are more than a little silly.

 

[Uhura]

Yeah, pretty much this. I've been using tumblr for a few years now and I pretty much never come across "SJW drama". Also kinda tired of the amount of hyperbole in these threads.

Can you tell me what exactly I'm being hyperbolic about? Because if you're in doubt of my examples of what I saw on a regular basis on those sites I can give you a few scans. Not trying to be confrontational or anything, I'm just curious as too what you don't believe.

I'm talking about comments like this:

Can't even read an article about a video game without someone injecting some form of bias, or starting arguments over a 3D model being too good looking.

Not every article/discussion gets derailed into "SJW" territory, so the statement reads hyperbolic.

I also don't understand your complaints about tumblr. In your post you say that you follow people who "demolish the arguments of ironically bigoted "feminists"" and "I clicked follow on one SJ blog" and then complain that you can't scroll down tumblr without seeing "SJW" drama. Of course you are going to stumble across OTT "SJW" drama if you follow blogs that feature said drama. I've been using tumblr actively for a few years (and I have two blogs there) and I almost never see that stuff, unless I go looking for it on purpose.

 

[Loop Stricken]

horse fuckers getting on a soap box is a common observation.

Well, how else are they going to reach?

 

[Fox12]

Don't be dicks.

A simple rule I think we can all live by, yeah? Mot social justice falls under this for me. I don't worry about it though, since I tend to avoid games I find distasteful anyway. I suppose I am getting tired of the smugness of certain groups, even if I agree with them in principal.