I Think I've Reached A Boiling Point When It Comes To Social Justice

[CounterReproductive]

To the original poster I simply have this to say. We, that is; you, me, and every other member of the human race, are a staggeringly self important, ignorant, greed obsessed and moronic bunch of bar stewards. That I gave up all hope years ago.

Just drink, smoke and dance. Peace

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Eh, if by 'social justice' you mean 'feminism', which you seem to, then yeah I gave up on the movement ages ago. Do you think that such innocuous statements as 'try not to go places alone at night' or 'don't get blackout drunk because people might take advantage of you' are worthwhile bits of advice, obvious though they may be? Congrats, you're a victim blamer, and you're part of the problem! In fact, you're probably a rapist too! Fucking yay.

I'm tired of having everything said with good intentions twisted to make me look like the villain.

 

[Erttheking]

#1. It's delusional. If you're going to insult someone use proper grammar.

#2. You're throwing a massive blanket over a massive diverse group. Do you not see the problem with that?

#3. Insulting someone you disagree with reflects poorly on you.

Oh, god. I found one!

#1. I'm starting to understand why people assume you people are just annoyed at everything now.

#2. Nope.

#3 Oh dear. Oh deary me. What ever will I do.

I'm sorry, but, the simple fact of it is, I'm not really required to care what some random SJWs think of me on the internet.

They don't have any points beyond deluded babbling in a non-sensical way, so, it's hard to really disagree with that. You just kinda have to acknowledge such people exist, unfortunately. Disagreement implies some argument is to be had. The only response a lot of "arguments" they bring up deserve is laughter.

#1. Using correct grammar is not hard. I'm not speaking as a "SJW" anyway (How come people are allowed to refer to us by a deratory name but we're not allowed to do the same? We've been stomaching that tag for awhile not but the internet would fucking explode if we ever refereed to someone who disagreed with us as a member of the WDGF) I'm speaking as an English Major.

#2. It's going on stereotypes. It's like saying that all Irish are drunks, all Americans own ten different guns and all Canadians have a glass of maple syrup each day. You're taking one or two traits and letting them define your entire view of a much larger body.

#3. I suppose I can't exactly control what you do, I'm just pointing out that if you want to come across as reasonable that's not the way to go around.

If that's the case, why respond to me?

Again, this is the whole going off of stereotypes thing I talked about earlier. You're forming an inaccurate view point.

Also just to clarify, you were calling me delusional when you said you "found one" right?

 

[Darwinism]

Eh, if by 'social justice' you mean 'feminism', which you seem to, then yeah I gave up on the movement ages ago. Do you think that such innocuous statements as 'try not to go places alone at night' or 'don't get blackout drunk because people might take advantage of you' are worthwhile bits of advice, obvious though they may be? Congrats, you're a victim blamer, and you're part of the problem! In fact, you're probably a rapist too! Fucking yay.

I'm tired of having everything said with good intentions twisted to make me look like the villain.

Are you real? Because, yeah, implying that people just need to act differently to not get raped is victim blaming; you are putting at least some of the responsibility on the victim for not taking actions that you think would prevent rape somehow.

 

[Muspelheim]

My suggestion?

Pretend you are a little woodlouse. Or a little spider or a little crayfish, if you like. Grow and harden your chitin, because it'll be quite necessary in a place where everyone gets to, and will, talk about things. They won't go away. If you are going to places where people talk about stuff you are exceptionally tired of, bring a thick chitin.

Very, very little of it, reguardless of direction, matter at all. It's just wordy flux, an inevitability when people are allowed to speak their mind in anonymity. The poster that unironically think that cis scum must die does not matter. The poster that think women can't think rationally and therefore shouldn't be given more than they can manage does not matter.

It's just a byproduct of things that do matter. And if we are going to crawl down a pipe where this wordy rubbish collects, we need our chitin or we'd best stay out. Let it drop off, like the pointless silt it is.

Becoming cynical about real injustice and general unpleasantries in the real world isn't the solution to a ridiculously overblown reflection of it on the internet. It's just shutting the wrong door. Real world rights matter, internet fights only vaguely related does not.

In brief, it doesn't matter, won't go away and is easily ignored.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Eh, if by 'social justice' you mean 'feminism', which you seem to, then yeah I gave up on the movement ages ago. Do you think that such innocuous statements as 'try not to go places alone at night' or 'don't get blackout drunk because people might take advantage of you' are worthwhile bits of advice, obvious though they may be? Congrats, you're a victim blamer, and you're part of the problem! In fact, you're probably a rapist too! Fucking yay.

I'm tired of having everything said with good intentions twisted to make me look like the villain.

Are you real? Because, yeah, implying that people just need to act differently to not get raped is victim blaming; you are putting at least some of the responsibility on the victim for not taking actions that you think would prevent rape somehow.

Do you not think that getting fucked up and walking around alone late at night might increase a persons chances of being assaulted? It seems pretty self-evident. I'd love to see you debunk those ideas.

My mother used to tell me to be careful walking home late at night because there could be people spilling out of pubs who are itching to fight/give someone a kicking. The fact that that is genuinely something that can happen to you is apparently besides the point. My mother is clearly a victim-blamer and a fool. Putting my safety above a lofty ideal... What a *****, she should have just kept her mouth shut.

 

[Darwinism]

Eh, if by 'social justice' you mean 'feminism', which you seem to, then yeah I gave up on the movement ages ago. Do you think that such innocuous statements as 'try not to go places alone at night' or 'don't get blackout drunk because people might take advantage of you' are worthwhile bits of advice, obvious though they may be? Congrats, you're a victim blamer, and you're part of the problem! In fact, you're probably a rapist too! Fucking yay.

I'm tired of having everything said with good intentions twisted to make me look like the villain.

Are you real? Because, yeah, implying that people just need to act differently to not get raped is victim blaming; you are putting at least some of the responsibility on the victim for not taking actions that you think would prevent rape somehow.

Do you not think that getting fucked up and walking around alone late at night might increase a persons chances of being assaulted? It seems pretty self-evident. I'd love to see you debunk those ideas.

My mother used to tell me to be careful walking home late at night because there could be people spilling out of pubs who are itching to fight/give someone a kicking. The fact that that is genuinely something that can happen to you is apparently besides the point. My mother is clearly a victim-blamer and a fool. Putting my safety above a lofty ideal... What a *****, she should have just kept her mouth shut.

I think that implying that it's one person's fault when another person assaults them is stupid, and that giving the 'advice' of "Well just don't get really drunk around people," to presumably full-grown adults is condescending as hell and implies fault. Also why don't we use the flipside of this advice and just tell everyone, "Hey just don't rape," because obviously it's just as easy as telling someone something.

 

[AJ_Lethal]

In any of the movements, there's always going to be assholes, an unfortunate amount of them, who will ruin it. I'm not saying we should stop trying, but we should be prepared to accept that we're always going to be in a state of flux in these issues when we finally get somewhere near equality, a war of tit for tat between two extremes who are equally wrong in which those rational people in between are basically helpless to stop it.

And that's something that everybody, inside and outside of movements tend to ignore. Movements should have self-policing to avoid that kind of shit.

How does that actually work, though? You've got no authority figures to decide who gets to stay and who gets kicked out.

Democracy, bro. I'm aware there are loudmouthed hypocrital extremist asshole minorities in every movement, but isn't the movement's majority's responsibility to weed those idiots out?

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Eh, if by 'social justice' you mean 'feminism', which you seem to, then yeah I gave up on the movement ages ago. Do you think that such innocuous statements as 'try not to go places alone at night' or 'don't get blackout drunk because people might take advantage of you' are worthwhile bits of advice, obvious though they may be? Congrats, you're a victim blamer, and you're part of the problem! In fact, you're probably a rapist too! Fucking yay.

I'm tired of having everything said with good intentions twisted to make me look like the villain.

Are you real? Because, yeah, implying that people just need to act differently to not get raped is victim blaming; you are putting at least some of the responsibility on the victim for not taking actions that you think would prevent rape somehow.

Do you not think that getting fucked up and walking around alone late at night might increase a persons chances of being assaulted? It seems pretty self-evident. I'd love to see you debunk those ideas.

My mother used to tell me to be careful walking home late at night because there could be people spilling out of pubs who are itching to fight/give someone a kicking. The fact that that is genuinely something that can happen to you is apparently besides the point. My mother is clearly a victim-blamer and a fool. Putting my safety above a lofty ideal... What a *****, she should have just kept her mouth shut.

I think that implying that it's one person's fault when another person assaults them is stupid, and that giving the 'advice' of "Well just don't get really drunk around people," to presumably full-grown adults is condescending as hell and implies fault. Also why don't we use the flipside of this advice and just tell everyone, "Hey just don't rape," because obviously it's just as easy as telling someone something.

We do tell people not to rape. It's pretty uniformly regarded as bad...

Is he implying that it's the victims fault, or noticing patterns in choices/behaviour and outcomes? I think not giving advice like this would be negligent. And why are you saying "full grown adults"? If you're an adult you should know this anyway. The advice is for the youth and young-adult crowd who are not nearly as smart as they think they are.

I see you're trying to frame it as callous, but to me it comes off as having legitimate interest in the safety of others... Which really feels like the opposite.

I think you're politicising this to an absurd degree.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

#1. It's delusional. If you're going to insult someone use proper grammar.

#2. You're throwing a massive blanket over a massive diverse group. Do you not see the problem with that?

#3. Insulting someone you disagree with reflects poorly on you.

Oh, god. I found one!

#1. I'm starting to understand why people assume you people are just annoyed at everything now.

#2. Nope.

#3 Oh dear. Oh deary me. What ever will I do.

I'm sorry, but, the simple fact of it is, I'm not really required to care what some random SJWs think of me on the internet.

They don't have any points beyond deluded babbling in a non-sensical way, so, it's hard to really disagree with that. You just kinda have to acknowledge such people exist, unfortunately. Disagreement implies some argument is to be had. The only response a lot of "arguments" they bring up deserve is laughter.

#1. Using correct grammar is not hard. I'm not speaking as a "SJW" anyway (How come people are allowed to refer to us by a deratory name but we're not allowed to do the same? We've been stomaching that tag for awhile not but the internet would fucking explode if we ever refereed to someone who disagreed with us as a member of the WDGF) I'm speaking as an English Major.

#2. It's going on stereotypes. It's like saying that all Irish are drunks, all Americans own ten different guns and all Canadians have a glass of maple syrup each day. You're taking one or two traits and letting them define your entire view of a much larger body.

#3. I suppose I can't exactly control what you do, I'm just pointing out that if you want to come across as reasonable that's not the way to go around.

If that's the case, why respond to me?

Again, this is the whole going off of stereotypes thing I talked about earlier. You're forming an inaccurate view point.

Also just to clarify, you were calling me delusional when you said you "found one" right?

1 - Being understanding of typos isn't hard either. Also, I think you meant to type "derogatory"... Glass houses... Don't think you meant to write "refereed" either... Oh dear.

2 - Those things are all true though, right?

3 - You don't seem reasonable getting hung up on little mistakes when you clearly understood what he meant anyway. I hope I've demonstrated how arsey that comes across.

 

[Darwinism]

Eh, if by 'social justice' you mean 'feminism', which you seem to, then yeah I gave up on the movement ages ago. Do you think that such innocuous statements as 'try not to go places alone at night' or 'don't get blackout drunk because people might take advantage of you' are worthwhile bits of advice, obvious though they may be? Congrats, you're a victim blamer, and you're part of the problem! In fact, you're probably a rapist too! Fucking yay.

I'm tired of having everything said with good intentions twisted to make me look like the villain.

Are you real? Because, yeah, implying that people just need to act differently to not get raped is victim blaming; you are putting at least some of the responsibility on the victim for not taking actions that you think would prevent rape somehow.

Do you not think that getting fucked up and walking around alone late at night might increase a persons chances of being assaulted? It seems pretty self-evident. I'd love to see you debunk those ideas.

My mother used to tell me to be careful walking home late at night because there could be people spilling out of pubs who are itching to fight/give someone a kicking. The fact that that is genuinely something that can happen to you is apparently besides the point. My mother is clearly a victim-blamer and a fool. Putting my safety above a lofty ideal... What a *****, she should have just kept her mouth shut.

I think that implying that it's one person's fault when another person assaults them is stupid, and that giving the 'advice' of "Well just don't get really drunk around people," to presumably full-grown adults is condescending as hell and implies fault. Also why don't we use the flipside of this advice and just tell everyone, "Hey just don't rape," because obviously it's just as easy as telling someone something.

We do tell people not to rape. It's pretty uniformly regarded as bad...

Is he implying that it's the victims fault, or noticing patterns in choices/behaviour and outcomes? I think not giving advice like this would be negligent. And why are you saying "full grown adults"? If you're an adult you should know this anyway. The advice is for the youth and young-adult crowd who are not nearly as smart as they think they are.

I see you're trying to frame it as callous, but to me it comes off as having legitimate interest in the safety of others... Which really feels like the opposite.

I think you're politicising this to an absurd degree.

What? When was the last time you had a serious discussion on what consent was in a sexual setting? Because we really, really don't tell people not to rape, or at least we don't do it in a meaningful sense where people understand what is consent and what isn't and what cannot be consent. And that is a large part of the problem. A huge number of people guilty of sexual assault never think of it as sexual assault because they don't know. This doesn't excuse it, but it certainly highlights the fact that we are still really goddamn bad overall at addressing these sorts of things.


Also I don't think you know what the word politicizing means because politics haven't come up once

 

[Thaluikhain]

Democracy, bro. I'm aware there are loudmouthed hypocrital extremist asshole minorities in every movement, but isn't the movement's majority's responsibility to weed those idiots out?

Again, how? Shout louder than them? There's no membership to revoke, no club they can be kicked out of. People can complain about them, sure, but they are doing that already.

We do tell people not to rape. It's pretty uniformly regarded as bad...

In a vague abstract way, yes. It's so bad, it's often not rape when one of "our" people does it.

It was the mid 90s in the US when marital rape became a crime in all states. There are some people still saying that if a man forces himself on his wife, it's somehow not rape. Likewise, if he's been a nice guy, paid for dinner, they've had sex before, or any number of other things.

People can regard rape as bad without actually having to regard rape as bad.

 

[Silvanus]

Democracy, bro. I'm aware there are loudmouthed hypocrital extremist asshole minorities in every movement, but isn't the movement's majority's responsibility to weed those idiots out?

Only if it's an organisation, in which each member's actions in their role reflect on the organisation as a whole, and so the body of the organisation takes responsibility for each member.

Not in a loosely-affiliated movement.

So, for example, PETA is responsible for the actions taken by members acting on its behalf. I, as a random vegetarian, do not share the same responsibility.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

snip

Ah, so education is the answer as always. Education is good, except when it's not, right?

snip

Hello,

The mother in question was communicating the ideas to an adult Panda. She's that kind of mother.

I'm sure people know it's a bad idea, that doesn't stop people doing it. Getting very drunk is a bad idea... That doesn't stop people doing it.

Pointing it out after the fact is different, I'll grant you that. Someonehairy-ish's statements(the source of this branch) outline pre-emptive advice, which is the best kind... In my opinion. His innocuous comments were still met with snarky bullshit, which is where I entered the conversation.

Snip

Sorry about the snipping. Lots of responses, not enough time to be painstaking about responding.

Hello, thaluikhain

If you're saying that rape is ill-defined in public perception... Fair enough, you're probably on point, at least to a certain degree.

In regards to the scenarios you present. I really think you'd have trouble finding people who don't think it's rape if there was a definite "no" and physical resistance.

 

[Darwinism]

snip

Ah, so education is the answer as always. Education is good, except when it's not, right?

Telling an adult to not get too drunk and to not walk alone at night isn't education, it's condescension.

Also, people have the right to expect to not be raped. But, it's cool, keep on saying that it's fine to say, in effect, "Just don't get into a situation where someone else forces themselves on you, that works I hear!"

 

[Depulcator]

I used to get riled up over it. But after a while I stopped caring, and went on enjoying my hobby. Also like most of these movements, it'll scream it'self silent and retreat to its own portion of the web.

 

[Thaluikhain]

If you're saying that rape is ill-defined in public perception... Fair enough, you're probably on point, at least to a certain degree.

In regards to the scenarios you present. I really think you'd have trouble finding people who don't think it's rape if there was a definite "no" and physical resistance.

They exist. "She wanted it, really" or "her mouth said no but her eyes said yes" and so on. Polanski had (and has) his defenders, for example.

In any case, that's not setting the bar that high.

 

[AJ_Lethal]

Only if it's an organisation, in which each member's actions in their role reflect on the organisation as a whole, and so the body of the organisation takes responsibility for each member.

Not in a loosely-affiliated movement.

So, for example, PETA is responsible for the actions taken by members acting on its behalf. I, as a random vegetarian, do not share the same responsibility.

Again, how? Shout louder than them? There's no membership to revoke, no club they can be kicked out of. People can complain about them, sure, but they are doing that already.

Well, they can tell them to fuck off and show disapproval of them. It's that (technically) simple.