I wanna talk about Lootboxes

CritialGaming

New member
Mar 25, 2015
2,170
0
0
Look I'm sure some of you are probably tired of the debate about these fucking things, but I feel like I really want to get some stuff off my chest about it.

Gamestop recently argued with people on their facebook page and insisted that the Lootboxes are completely optional. They said that there are plenty of lootboxes you can directly earn for free in game, except they also mentioned that there are some orcs that can ONLY be obtained from PAID lootboxes. They justified it as okay because the paid orcs are not necessarily better than free orcs (which is probably bullshit)

Any Orcs exclusive to paid lootboxes is simply content gating. Regardless of the power these orcs might have, they have effective locked content not only behind an additional pay wall, but also a RANDOM one. I get DLC orcs, or costumes, and extra content behind DLC purchases because the player can directly buy EXACTLY what they want.

The problem with locking exclusive orcs behind the lootbox paywall, is that if there is a badass orc that a player really wants for whatever reason, that player can't just buy the orc like they could with a flat DLC purchase. The only thing they can do is gamble on the orc. Buying lootboxes and hopping they get what they want. It's the same system that Gacha mobile games have used for years. Except gacha mobile games are free to play and don't require 60-100 dollars of intro purchasing.

Now if any and all orcs were capable of being unlocking through grinding lootboxes, then that would be at least passable. Because in theory it at least allows ALL players to have an equal chance to get any orc. But by locking some of the orcs behind only real money boxes, you gate your community and feed upon "whales" to make even more money.

And frankly this whole "Games cost more and more to make and thus need Microtransactions to support development costs" is bullshit and you at Gamestop KNOW this. There are tons of very high end AAA games that don't use MT's to "support" dev costs. The Witcher 3, Final Fantasy XV, Nioh, Dark Souls, Persona 5, Resident Evil 7, Zelda Breath of the Wild, Mario + Rabids, all of these are games that had huge budgets and easily made their money back without having to resort to microtransactions to "doubledip" into player's wallets.

Microtransactions in full priced titles are simply a greedy business model. PERIOD.

Now I have absolutely no problem with Lootboxes as a concept. In fact, in theory I really like the idea. Hell Diablo 3 is basically a lootbox murder simulator in which every enemy can rain a prize upon you. It's when content is locked behind those boxes that I have the problem. Because it is content that you can potentially NEVER see even if you pay for it. Which I think is bullshit.

If Shadow of War or Battlefront want to have content in lootboxes, then there needs to be some other way to get that same content.

I think Marvel Heroes did something like this that was a good example of how to do it. You can buy lootboxes in Marvel Heroes and they are pretty damn cheap (and can be earned in game for free). In these boxes you have the chance of getting Heroes, and Hero skins, in addition to in-game boosts. However you can also directly buy the characters and skins you want to play. This can even be a way to help boost sales. Personally I got all jizz happy when I opened one of the free lootboxes in game and unlocked Rogue my favorite X-men character ever of all time ever. Immediately I went into the store and bought her skins for like 10 bucks or something. The character would have cost me 20 bucks alone so the fact that I won a character I really liked for free, gave me motivation to support the game to get the cosmetic skins I wanted.

But even if I didn't get the character i wanted in a reasonable number of lootboxes, I still had the option to skip the gambling entirely and buy the character I wanted outright. Not to mention Marvel Heroes is free to play so there isn't a 60+ dollar entry fee.

I think the Shadow of War approach is just wrong. Even though it seems to be more and more clear that you can beat the game without buying anything if you can put up with a little bit of a grind (which I don't really mind), I still don't like that a number of possible cool orcs are never within your grasp if you don't pay for lootboxes, but on top of that, even IF you DO pay for lootboxes you still are unlikely to see these orcs.

Another question is this. What happens to all the shit I bought from lootboxes, if I want to do a second playthrough? Am I fucked? Does that content carry over onto the game's "account" regardless of save file? I'm willing to bet that it is a one-and-done situation where if you start a new game, your new save with not have access to any of the cool orcs or whatever else you got from lootboxes you BOUGHT in the first save. Which to me suggests that the Lootbox economy activity limits replay ability of the game as it discourages anyone from wiping out progress they paid for.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
6,651
0
0
Lootboxes are only OK in multiplayer games if they are cosmetic or if the game is f2p. If you put lootboxes and other forms of microtransactions in a single player game that isn't f2p, I simply won't buy it. And this is the only attitude that will make publishers and developers think twice before they decide to implement them in their game. If you're willing to purchase the game regardless of microtransactions, they'll keep putting microtransactions in. If you surrender and accept the fact that this is just how things are now, then we've already lost and it will keep getting worse.
 

Sniper Team 4

New member
Apr 28, 2010
5,433
0
0
I wasn't going to play Shadow of War to begin with. I played the first game and barely got through it, and after seeing the trailers for the sequel, I just couldn't do it. I fear I'm one of those Tolkien fans that just cannot get over what these games are implicating (murdering) with their take on the lore. It has gone straight into fanfiction, the bad kind, in my book.

That being said, I was kind of okay with the loot boxes. I thought it was a crap move, but I figured those of you that were going to play it could at least enjoy the game and stay away from them. But then more and more news about what was in said boxes came out, and then reviewers started mention how much of a real grind the end game is--if you want the actual true ending--and that was icing on the cake. I kind of hope this game fails, but I doubt it will.
 

Fappy

\[T]/
Jan 4, 2010
12,010
0
41
Country
United States
Overwatch is as far as I am willing to go in terms of lootboxes. Here's why:

- All cosmetic/No power or progression advantage
- No subscription cost for active dev support/ongoing patches/competitive balancing/new free characters, maps, and other content
- Multiplayer (and by that I mean it's not a loot boxes in a single player game scenario)
- You can buy things directly with in-game currency

Typically I am against loot boxes in $60 games, but if it offers a lot of longevity, isn't pay to win, and you don't need to pay for new content, I give it a pass. I do think OW gold should be earned as you level rather than obtained randomly in loot boxes, however.
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

Better Red than Dead
Aug 5, 2009
48,836
0
0
If the lootboxes were unavailable for purchase, I'd be more friendly to them but noooo... We got to turn it into a gambling mechanic. I've fallen for that myself in World of Warships. I try to restrain myself better these days... <.<
 

Arnoxthe1

Elite Member
Dec 25, 2010
3,391
2
43
bjj hero said:
You are not a magpie, just say no.
Just because you say no doesn't mean others are going to.

Although, if mainstream gamers are really this stupid these days then maybe we do deserve loot boxes...
 

RedRockRun

sneaky sneaky
Jul 23, 2009
618
0
0
The first I ever saw lootboxes were in TF2, yet I never see anyone complaining about TF2 besides making fun of the hats - not even the hat economy which honestly deserves the most hate. So instead of hating the branches, hate the roots.
 

Imre Csete

Original Character, Do Not Steal
Jul 8, 2010
785
0
0
They are here to stay, I'm pretty sure the cost of development and income ratio makes it a no-brainer to include.

The increasingly scummier implementations however are worrisome, but I doubt the publishers will lose any sleep over lost sales which are recovered with lootboxes from idiots with too much cash to spare.
 

laggyteabag

Scrolling through forums, instead of playing games
Legacy
Oct 25, 2009
3,301
982
118
UK
Gender
He/Him
bjj hero said:
Dont like them? Dont buy them. Easy.

You are not a magpie, just say no.
"Loot boxes are optional" is probably the biggest misconception of the industry, right now.

If somebody offers you something for sale, they are going to want you to buy it, and that often means comprimising the rest of the game to compensate.

So yes, it is true that when I play Overwatch, the game doesnt force me to go into the store, open my wallet, and purchase 50 lootboxes, but dont you think the leveling system (ie, the only way to get boxes without paying) is awfully slow?

Even then, lets say I'm playing EA's Battlefront 2: again, nothing is forcing me to throw my wallet at the screen for precious boxes, but what if I join a match with someone who just blew $500 to unlock everything, and is now running around with level 4 Star Cards in every slot, a few hours after the game just launched. Having to deal with that doesnt sound optional to me.

OT: Microtransactionss are a F2P monetisation scheme that has been adapted by the AAA industry to get more money from their customers, but lootboxes have taken it a step further by comprimising the games as a whole, to make microtransactions as enticing as possible. In a $60, its having your cake, and eating it too.

The concept of loot boxes isn't a bad one. Its like when you come across a treasure chest in a dungeon. I like random. The second you hide that chest behind a paywall, however, is the second it starts to become predatory.

Hopefully paid lootboxes will go the way of the dodo, but seeing as they have trippled the value of the industry, frankly I cant see that happening anytime soon.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

Muse of Fate
Sep 1, 2010
4,691
0
0
I don't have a problem with loot boxes if they are JUST FOR COSMETICS or that you can buy with in-game earned currency the exact things you want. I played a lot of Mass Effect 3's MP and I hated the loot box system in it and I actually stopped playing because of it. You had to get new characters in loot boxes and I found I was just playing to earn money to hopefully get a new character I wanted to try out instead of playing the game just for fun. All that would be fixed if you could just buy whatever you wanted with earned credits. Locking actual content behind loot boxes you can only get with paying real money is definitely some bullshit.
 

Buffoon1980

New member
Mar 9, 2013
136
0
0
Yes, I hate lootboxes with a passion. But only because it seems that everyone keeps on goddamn obsessing over them. It really does appear at times that I'm the only person on the planet who plays games because I enjoy actually playing games, rather than compulsively worrying that other people may have spent their money to get in-game items I don't have. Honestly, good for them. I don't care. And while I do have some sympathy for people who are susceptible to being suckered in to spending money they can ill afford on pointless loot boxes... I don't really care too much about them, either. There are countless other, bigger problems in the world.

The outrage over Forza 7 was the epitome of the ridiculousness of some peoples' complaints. That game has something like 700+ cars, maybe a hundred of which can most easily, or in some cases only, be obtained with lootboxes (which can easily be bought with currency earned in-game). Now, will anyone deny that if the game had come with 400 cars and no lootboxes there would have been far, far fewer complaints? To my mind this exposes a bizarre psychological flaw in people's reasoning - they will prefer to have less so long as they are also spared the knowledge that they are missing out on something.
 

Erttheking

Member
Legacy
Oct 5, 2011
10,845
1
3
Country
United States
RedRockRun said:
The first I ever saw lootboxes were in TF2, yet I never see anyone complaining about TF2 besides making fun of the hats - not even the hat economy which honestly deserves the most hate. So instead of hating the branches, hate the roots.
TF2 is F2P. The type of game you're supposed to have micro transactions in. Not games that charge full price up front.
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
Legacy
Jul 18, 2009
19,651
4,452
118
All I can really say is that I'm lucky none of the games I'm interested in suffer from them. Technically you could say Horizon: Zero Dawn has them, but you buy them with in-game currency, and I think there's maybe 3 or 5 boxes tops per merchant.

Anyway, as soon as they start appearing in The Last of Us 2, or the new God of War, then I'll start freaking out.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

Alleged Feather-Rustler
Jun 5, 2013
6,760
0
0
Ezekiel said:
Are pay to win loot boxes in any game that actually looks good? Everybody is so bothered about them, and I just look at these games and say to myself, "I don't wanna play them anyway."
Yeah its kinda' a game breaker for me. They worked in the ME3 multiplayer because it wasn't Vs. It was co-op against the Reapers, so if someone wanted to drop a buck or two on new gear, it just made their experience better. Never took away from another.
 

The Lunatic

Princess
Jun 3, 2010
2,291
0
0
Lookboxes or other microtransations are completely unacceptable in any high-production game over $20.

Don't care if they're cosmetic or any bullshit like that, I'm out.
 

TheFinish

Grand Admiral
May 17, 2010
264
2
21
Lootboxes need to go die in a fire. Yes, even in F2P, and especially in AAA games. If you want to sell me cosmetics, or anything, sell it directly. This bloody random nonsense has to go. There's no excuse. It's simply a way to scam people for money, and it's disgusting.
 

Rednog

New member
Nov 3, 2008
3,567
0
0
In terms of Shadow of War I'm still on the fence, I'm 21 hours in and almost done with Act 2. At this point I've never felt pressured to buy any boxes. That said apparently Act 4 is where things get turned on their head. Unfortunately I still haven't found really any indepth reason as to why this is.

I'm also a bit conflicted as to the arguments of screwing the player by locking orcs behind crates, I enjoy the interactions you get from hunting down and conquering the orcs that spawn naturally. And even then I'm semi dubious about how powerful the actual rarity affects their performance. I've been throwing my orcs into the fighting pits for funsies and unless my orc is significantly higher in level or has a straight up instant kill trait against the enemy the rights seem like AI RNG. I sent in a legendary level 35 orc with a poisonous bow into a fight with a 27 that was sickly; he just sat there reloading his bow perpetually while the crappy common orc just stabbed him over and over with a dagger.

That said if Act 4 really is complete nonsense I'm just going to edit my file to give myself a bazillion currency and just deck out my troops in gear. But so far, even playing on the hardest difficulty, I have yet to die (granted I should've died maybe twice but the games random save you events triggered). Unless the game throws something obscene at me I really don't see there being some kind of odd challenge. I'm wondering if the reviewers just charged through the campaign and were underleved, and their army was undergeared and that's why the final act was so tough.