I'm a straight male gamer, convince me diversity in games is a good thing
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A couple of things, as much as I am a fan of diversity in games, you can have a game of all straight white males without it having to be Call of Duty or a "dudebro" game. Painting not caring about diversity as only wanting to play military shooters in various shades of brown is kind of disingenious.
However, on the other hand... Maybe it isn't about you OP? This strikes me as obvious a question as "Why should I care about people starving in Africa? I have plenty to eat." Before the horde of people jump on me accusing me of comparing famine to lack of diversity in games, no, I am not saying they're comparable in magnitude at all. I'm saying the reason why you should care for both is the same, basic empathy. You're getting what you want, but maybe that's not all that should matter?
Also, you seem to be under the impression that diversification goes hand in hand with low budget artsy indie games. There's a good reason why at the moment it does. Because AAA games are still terrified of showing more than token minorities. They're putting millions of dollars into these games, and they don't want to risk their profit. Frankly, large amounts of the gaming population are giving them every reason to believe that this is the case. The more diversity you show in a game the more people you'll have accusing the game of trying to be SJW bait, or trying to appeal to the devil itself, feminists.
Because of this, the majority of the people who try to have a little diversity in their games are those with small budgets. If more straight white guys care about diversity in games, or at least don't resist its inclusion, then you won't have to dig through indies to find it
However, on the other hand... Maybe it isn't about you OP? This strikes me as obvious a question as "Why should I care about people starving in Africa? I have plenty to eat." Before the horde of people jump on me accusing me of comparing famine to lack of diversity in games, no, I am not saying they're comparable in magnitude at all. I'm saying the reason why you should care for both is the same, basic empathy. You're getting what you want, but maybe that's not all that should matter?
Also, you seem to be under the impression that diversification goes hand in hand with low budget artsy indie games. There's a good reason why at the moment it does. Because AAA games are still terrified of showing more than token minorities. They're putting millions of dollars into these games, and they don't want to risk their profit. Frankly, large amounts of the gaming population are giving them every reason to believe that this is the case. The more diversity you show in a game the more people you'll have accusing the game of trying to be SJW bait, or trying to appeal to the devil itself, feminists.
Because of this, the majority of the people who try to have a little diversity in their games are those with small budgets. If more straight white guys care about diversity in games, or at least don't resist its inclusion, then you won't have to dig through indies to find it
Diversity in games is not a bad thing, nor is it a good thing, its just a thing.
We are really doing a disservice to the industry by focusing on the diversity of a game rather than focusing on making the game industry inclusive so that anyone can be free to make the games they want to make and that consumers have easy access to those games, the free market will sort out the rest. This way instead of people fighting over games there will simply be more games of a wider variety for everyone to enjoy.
Right now the fighting seems to be more over the AAA market. Sadly the AAA market is full of corporate paper pushers and those games are going to follow the models of whatever their market research determined to generate bigger profit, whether diverse or not.
Personally I like gender/race neutral games or more fantasy/sci-fi selections, mainly due to the fact that I find realistic stories drab and beneath the medium. I don't have a problem with those stories existing but IMO gaming is wasted on them. If realistic human stories are your thing, stick to books and film. Gaming is just to fantastic of a medium, so limitless in possibility, to be held down by something so...mundane.
We are really doing a disservice to the industry by focusing on the diversity of a game rather than focusing on making the game industry inclusive so that anyone can be free to make the games they want to make and that consumers have easy access to those games, the free market will sort out the rest. This way instead of people fighting over games there will simply be more games of a wider variety for everyone to enjoy.
Right now the fighting seems to be more over the AAA market. Sadly the AAA market is full of corporate paper pushers and those games are going to follow the models of whatever their market research determined to generate bigger profit, whether diverse or not.
Personally I like gender/race neutral games or more fantasy/sci-fi selections, mainly due to the fact that I find realistic stories drab and beneath the medium. I don't have a problem with those stories existing but IMO gaming is wasted on them. If realistic human stories are your thing, stick to books and film. Gaming is just to fantastic of a medium, so limitless in possibility, to be held down by something so...mundane.
Do you want to play the exact same character in every single game? Becasue that's how you get the exact same character in every single game.
I don't care if a character is white, black, Spanish, female or gay. But I'm incredibly bored of the brown haired guy that saves everyone and bangs the woman. I'm in the minority that has never played a Mass Effect game as male Sheppard, and prefer Jennifer Hale's voice over Meers'.
I don't care if a character is white, black, Spanish, female or gay. But I'm incredibly bored of the brown haired guy that saves everyone and bangs the woman. I'm in the minority that has never played a Mass Effect game as male Sheppard, and prefer Jennifer Hale's voice over Meers'.
To the people bringing games like BF or CoD or GoW into this....
If you're talking about the campaign modes needing some fresh faces fine... although in Black Ops 2 the Admiral in charge of your unit is a black guy, one of your commonly-used squad members is latino, the expert hacker you need for your side is a cyberpunk-ish woman.... and sexuality isn't really going to be a factor for a soldier who's out on a mission. Yes, the majority of the main characters are mid 20s to late 30s males... but that's kind of a reality in Special Forces Units. Not supporting it, just putting it out there.
Moving on to the MP, CoD Ghosts gives the option of male and female characters, and skin options to represent pretty much every race. Not that it matters, character models are hardly visible in the MP of a FPS unless you go for a melee kill. in the multiplayer mode of almost any game that isn't an RPG, race/gender is for appearance only. There's no time in a MP match that may last 10-20 minutes to develop a character, and there shouldn't be... you're basically playing the role of "Soldier #3348283" until you die, when you become "Soldier 33348284". Sexuality is even further away. How would they fit that in? I suppose through your character's dialogue, but I don't see how other than your gay male character saying something like "Oh Nooooo" like that Family Guy character... but it's insulting to think all gay men talk in an effeminate manor, so I don't see that being a good option.
I support the idea of giving options to appeal to everyone in games where character development is a main part of the game, although people have to be reasonable in their expectations. They can't program the game to be able to handle every single potential aspect of the human experience.
If you're talking about the campaign modes needing some fresh faces fine... although in Black Ops 2 the Admiral in charge of your unit is a black guy, one of your commonly-used squad members is latino, the expert hacker you need for your side is a cyberpunk-ish woman.... and sexuality isn't really going to be a factor for a soldier who's out on a mission. Yes, the majority of the main characters are mid 20s to late 30s males... but that's kind of a reality in Special Forces Units. Not supporting it, just putting it out there.
Moving on to the MP, CoD Ghosts gives the option of male and female characters, and skin options to represent pretty much every race. Not that it matters, character models are hardly visible in the MP of a FPS unless you go for a melee kill. in the multiplayer mode of almost any game that isn't an RPG, race/gender is for appearance only. There's no time in a MP match that may last 10-20 minutes to develop a character, and there shouldn't be... you're basically playing the role of "Soldier #3348283" until you die, when you become "Soldier 33348284". Sexuality is even further away. How would they fit that in? I suppose through your character's dialogue, but I don't see how other than your gay male character saying something like "Oh Nooooo" like that Family Guy character... but it's insulting to think all gay men talk in an effeminate manor, so I don't see that being a good option.
I support the idea of giving options to appeal to everyone in games where character development is a main part of the game, although people have to be reasonable in their expectations. They can't program the game to be able to handle every single potential aspect of the human experience.
Well, you don't have to be interested in diversity. Here's what happens if you are...
During the 50s, many college students were coming home to their parents saying that society (American) was being racist. I could go through many reasons but one example was segregation. The parents of these children didn't understand. Not because they were racist but because why would you put yourself in another person shoes.
You see they were told what to do, what to think and how to do their jobs. They were only to think about themselves and their job. IMO, the same situation applies here. We wont understand another person point of view until we try to walk in their shoes. Much of this 'hatred to women (/casual/pc/console/dudebro) gamers' comes from only being interest in yourself.
Telltales Walking Dead series is a product of diversity. A black man NOT being a gang member (as you see in almost all other games). A teenage girl becoming a violent survivalist. It strange to say that it has taken his long to break some stereotypes.
I really don't like God or Gear of War, COD, Rainbow 6 etc. because their only point is killing. But I try not to critise them as, when coupled with diversity, they brought me Spec Ops: The Line. I see the gaming industry now like the movies industry coming out of the 80s. Many people realised that most of the 80s action movies were vapid experiences. The audience wanted more. But that not with growing pains to something better (see most 90s movies and compare that to the MCU now). You don't know how games like Gone Home will impact your own experience many years down the track.
Also Gone Home is the only diversity game you can think of? There are plenty, but another good example would be the Metro 2033 as it has Russian in a non-antagonist role.
During the 50s, many college students were coming home to their parents saying that society (American) was being racist. I could go through many reasons but one example was segregation. The parents of these children didn't understand. Not because they were racist but because why would you put yourself in another person shoes.
You see they were told what to do, what to think and how to do their jobs. They were only to think about themselves and their job. IMO, the same situation applies here. We wont understand another person point of view until we try to walk in their shoes. Much of this 'hatred to women (/casual/pc/console/dudebro) gamers' comes from only being interest in yourself.
Telltales Walking Dead series is a product of diversity. A black man NOT being a gang member (as you see in almost all other games). A teenage girl becoming a violent survivalist. It strange to say that it has taken his long to break some stereotypes.
I really don't like God or Gear of War, COD, Rainbow 6 etc. because their only point is killing. But I try not to critise them as, when coupled with diversity, they brought me Spec Ops: The Line. I see the gaming industry now like the movies industry coming out of the 80s. Many people realised that most of the 80s action movies were vapid experiences. The audience wanted more. But that not with growing pains to something better (see most 90s movies and compare that to the MCU now). You don't know how games like Gone Home will impact your own experience many years down the track.
Also Gone Home is the only diversity game you can think of? There are plenty, but another good example would be the Metro 2033 as it has Russian in a non-antagonist role.
Yes what you say about Lee is the truth AND THAT IS THE POINT. I don't know if you know this but not all black guys are in a gang. But that's pretty much what every game portrays black men as. Lee is an average guy. You know, how everyone black man is generally like every white one.bishopzz said:
My point is Lee's race doesn't test the players ability to sympathize with him. I think a cultural difference is more interesting or at least a different perspective than usual. The most thing for me is rather or not a character is interesting and I believe I'm capable of sympathizing with a character regardless of race, sex or sexual orientation .trunkage said:
How can I get on board with 'diversity moving gaming forward', if it just means more crappy games I won't play on Steam?
Like Mass Effect, for example?
Like Mass Effect, for example?
But but but, it's ultra super important we convince him of how its a good thing.Pinkamena said:
Even though if he has to ask, there's already no point in even trying, and no one on the internet posting on some random forum will change how he thinks.
But hey, least its not another thread focusing on some nontroversy ... again ...
Why should we have to convince you in the first place? Diversity is also for the benefit of other groups, not just straight white males.
I think it's a good thing to keep games interesting. I'm incredibly bored of the basic male, white protagonists in most games. I almost always play women if i can. playing commander shepard as a female was so much better than as a male.
Why would anyone bother teaching people to be less shitty? That's always up to you. If you don't want anything which could cater to anyone but yourself, that's your business. I mean, it's shallow, selfish, shortsighted, ignorant and unpleasant, but hey, if that's what you want to show to people.
Diversity is neutral. In an American-centric context it might be good due to the historical events of American slavery and other such issues. In the broader world, there's way more nigh-homogenous nations than there are racially diverse ones. Take Japan for example with something like 98% of the population being native Japanese people. Their games don't need diversity since in their context everyone ever looks the same except for that one foreigner who they saw once on a train that they tell all their friends about due to how rare it is. Of course that's gonna be reflected in their games. Their games aren't inferior for being less diverse, they're just less diverse.
Diversity is neither good or bad and it definitely isn't gonna make a game inherently better. A more diverse game can be better than a less diverse one but that's gonna be entirely contingent on other factors not related to diversity.
Diversity is neither good or bad and it definitely isn't gonna make a game inherently better. A more diverse game can be better than a less diverse one but that's gonna be entirely contingent on other factors not related to diversity.