Vegan not really. But vegetarian (hope you know the difference, if not, wiki) diet is far more sustainable than eating meat. The cow eats a lot of greens before it becomes a steak.FrostyChick said:
I'm a vegan and I come in peace...
- Thread starter Cadmium Magenta
- Start date
I think animals /should/ get a decent life before I eat them, however I'm far too poor to be particularly picky.
"That's true, but we are not animals." - Yes, actually, we are. Mammals if I'm not mistaken.
And another thing I thought about, who are you to decide which organism is more important than any other?
You have no issues inflicting deadly violence upon a carrot.
Any organism intelligent enough to ask for it's freedom should get it.
"That's true, but we are not animals." - Yes, actually, we are. Mammals if I'm not mistaken.
And another thing I thought about, who are you to decide which organism is more important than any other?
You have no issues inflicting deadly violence upon a carrot.
Any organism intelligent enough to ask for it's freedom should get it.
I'm sorry, but this is simply not true for many people.Cadmium Magenta said:
Some vegans need regular vitamin B12 injections, for example, because their digestive systems simply don't absorb enough of it from sources besides meat. The majority might not, but if the people who do need them try to live without them they can become very sick.
Uncritically adopting a vegan diet can also cause muscle atrophy and ultimately potentially serious complications like heart attacks, I know this falls under the 'thinking about what nutrients we need' banner, but do you honestly think most people are capable of that or should indeed be forced to do it? It's not easy, people have different nutritional needs and unless you're a trained nutritionist you often won't know if you're missing something important.
If you feel ethnically that it's wrong to kill animals, then there's nothing wrong having injections of synthetic B12 so that you can avoid eating meat. I'm not going to argue that it's unnatural or wrong, however, neither am I going to accept that there's this equal and opposite choice between eating meat because you like the taste and not eating meat because you value animal welfare.
I agree with you that many people could stand to eat much less meat and would probably be healthier if they did so. I also think people should care about animal welfare in agriculture, and focus more on the quality of meat (including quality of life) rather than the quantity, but it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Omnivores can choose to eat a wide range of diets, but that doesn't mean it's always good for you to do so.
sorry guv, i just HAVE to troll you here, i apologise in advaceAndyFromMonday said:
'Last time i checked, babies werent intelligent, There's no reason why we shouldent eat them.'
/end of trolling
OT: human beings are by nature violent vindictive beings. if something scares us we kill it eat it and wear its hide to show we werent all scare at all haha!
so we killed lots of beasties, had a taste and by george! some of em were tastey!
scroll forward lots years and suddenly you find that we as the human race, simply put, have nothing to do. so why not eat the stuff that is tasty?.
and yes its mean to the animals etc. but most around here ( netherlands ) have a nice life before they are inconvenianced for maybe 10 minuts before having their brains blown out with a hydraulic piston going so fast their brains are scrabled before they can even say mooo-PLOK
As someone who has an interest in biology, at what point would you consider something "alive"?. Plants are alive as much as anything else is, and i'm sure if they had a voice they would say they don't want to be eaten.
Why is eating meat or animal products bad, but eating living, breathing, intelligent vegetation okay? And as we're enlightening each other; how about considering the fact that countless animals and insects have died or been left without habitat to harvest vegetables and other food used for vegetarian/vegan food?
I'm not trying to be antagonistic, i've just never really had an answer to these questions from someone who is vegan/vegetarian.
Why is eating meat or animal products bad, but eating living, breathing, intelligent vegetation okay? And as we're enlightening each other; how about considering the fact that countless animals and insects have died or been left without habitat to harvest vegetables and other food used for vegetarian/vegan food?
I'm not trying to be antagonistic, i've just never really had an answer to these questions from someone who is vegan/vegetarian.
Glad to see your not here to shove your choice down my throat!Rational discussion rules!
As for me, I eat meat because I can.
My morals are such that I can enjoy things given to me by nature. Granted, I don't hunt and kill my own food, but I do go through the proper channels to acquire it, just like how I don't rape girls when I have an erection, but go through the proper channels by dateing.
Additionally, there is a rather large section of society erected around eating meat. From ranchers to butchers to chefs, those people built a livelihood around people eating meat, same as the one built around fruits/vegetables. Eschewing one for the other has an impact either way.
Been said before, but the fact remains that we have had enough of an impact on certian animals that they would not survive without us. Best exapmle it the dairy cow. Those creatures feel great pain if not milked regulary now. Sometimes its not even for survival needs, but desires. We've altered the bloodline of wolves such that now we have bulldogs, who can't even mate without assistance.
As it stands, for me to survive, other things must die. Sure, I could make a conscience choice about certain things to reduce the amount of killing (all the silkworms killed for silk garments comes to mind), but I don't, as the more time I devote to that would mean less time doing things I enjoy.
As for me, I eat meat because I can.
My morals are such that I can enjoy things given to me by nature. Granted, I don't hunt and kill my own food, but I do go through the proper channels to acquire it, just like how I don't rape girls when I have an erection, but go through the proper channels by dateing.
Additionally, there is a rather large section of society erected around eating meat. From ranchers to butchers to chefs, those people built a livelihood around people eating meat, same as the one built around fruits/vegetables. Eschewing one for the other has an impact either way.
Been said before, but the fact remains that we have had enough of an impact on certian animals that they would not survive without us. Best exapmle it the dairy cow. Those creatures feel great pain if not milked regulary now. Sometimes its not even for survival needs, but desires. We've altered the bloodline of wolves such that now we have bulldogs, who can't even mate without assistance.
As it stands, for me to survive, other things must die. Sure, I could make a conscience choice about certain things to reduce the amount of killing (all the silkworms killed for silk garments comes to mind), but I don't, as the more time I devote to that would mean less time doing things I enjoy.
This is what I believe, it's also the reason I don't exercise much at all. I'm not going to spend 50 years of my life exercising, which is something I personally don't like, just so I can live another 20 years of finally relaxing. Screw that, I'm gonna eat all the good tasting stuff and play games and relax now, though I'm not going to eat 50 big macs a day and become super fat either.Averant said:
This is a supremely ironic statement if you've studied the plot of the matrix, and it's implications closely.Cubilone said:
Trying to use a human being as a battery is a pretty improbable and inefficient idea. (Probably explains why it wasn't in the original script - The original idea was that the matrix was a form of super-computer, using humans as biological processors.)
In any event, given how improbable using a human being as a battery actually is, it's actually far more likely that the machines in the matrix films were keeping humans alive just for the sake of it.
Not because they actually had practical use for humans.
What do you think about pest-control? If your house is filled with potentially disease-spreading rats and cockroaches, do you move out and let them stay? And would you be okay with selling it through a company who calls in the exterminators? Or to a group of new residents that would do the same?
I think the fact that our bodies are designed to kill, chew, and properly break down flesh automatically throws this thought process out the window.Cadmium Magenta said:
As appears to have been pointed out already, its believed currently that it would be literally impossible right now for every human on the planet to not eat meat.
I find this to be a rather silly point. If we apply that thinking to everything, and stopped doing everything we don't "Need" to do, the world as we know it would be unrecognizable.
I have no problems inherently with people being vegan. It's obviously non of my business. And I would be all for generic mass farming to be replaced with proper respectful and healthy farming alternatives. In fact the food we get would even improve in quality and taste. For now though, I cant look down on people who buy generic mass farmed food because it simply isn't feasible for everyone to afford or have access to the alternatives.
That being said, I have a massive problem with the stereotypical angry vegan who tells me I shouldn't eat meat. If you have a problem with it, spend your time creating or supporting alternatives. Otherwise mind your damn business. (not op)
I'm sorry but how does trivializing and the suffering of millions of people in WW2 form a solid basis of your argument?awakened_primate said:
Hint: It doesn't.
Animals only kill when they need it? Since when, animals gorge them selves all the time, seriously hamsters, dogs, you name it. You give them an abundance of food and they will keep going most of the time. Why do you think we need pet sitters when we leave our homes? Why can't we just leave a bunch of bowls of dry food and water out?
So people should be out hunting animals? Why? Does it somehow make it better that we each go and hunt down animals to eat ourselves. I'm sorry but another broken argument. Honestly how far would our technology be if we had to each go out and hunt our daily food? Even then it would be damn near impractical, how many millions of people live in a city alone? You'd have to have an absurd stretch of land packed to the brim with animals to be hunted just to feed people.
And I'm sorry but eating animals that are processed led to overpopulation? Hmm the poorest countries in the world might want to have a word with you.
Overpopulation is because improvement in the quality of life, and the prolongation of life occurred. Instead of having mass death of children and then having a majority of people dying in their 20's and 30s we actually have those people living now.
You know what, I don't care to go on, you're probably so far up your arse that nothing I can say will change you opinion. But seriously man you're trivializing the deaths of millions of people...that is just wrong.
As Omnivores we cannot soley survive on plant or meat on their own, to be nutrtionally balanced we need both in our diets, there are animals that are one or the other and they have different digestive systems (like my ferrets who are obligate carnivores, which basically means they just eat meat and nothing is gained by them eating plant matter).
No problem with Vegans as long as they arnt in my face about it, but i dont beleive its a viable food choice without adding in certain vitamins and such, even if they are added to soya or tofu, just like only eating meet isnt viable either, too many things in veg that is needed by the body too.
I think it comes down to dont lecture about meat is bad and i wont rub a steak in your face.
Its like Denis Leary said "meat tastes like murder, and murder taste pretty god damn good"
No problem with Vegans as long as they arnt in my face about it, but i dont beleive its a viable food choice without adding in certain vitamins and such, even if they are added to soya or tofu, just like only eating meet isnt viable either, too many things in veg that is needed by the body too.
I think it comes down to dont lecture about meat is bad and i wont rub a steak in your face.
Its like Denis Leary said "meat tastes like murder, and murder taste pretty god damn good"
Given that the topic at hand is about vegans and not vegetarians. I felt I didn't need to bring up vegetarians.meryatathagres said:Vegan not really. But vegetarian (hope you know the difference, if not, wiki) diet is far more sustainable than eating meat. The cow eats a lot of greens before it becomes a steak.FrostyChick said:
Also current estimates put that if we were to convert the entire human population were to purely vegetarian.
There is only enough arable farming land on the planet to support 4 billion people. Which would mean that 3 billion people would have to die in order to make it work. (current estimates put the total human population at around 7 billion)
1) I like meat.
I love the taste of a nice piece of chicken. Some minced meat with pasta. Hell, I'v even eaten Kangaroo and it was great.
2)It's not necessary. Of course not. So is the internet, tv, phones and hats. But I like to little extras in life without needing to justify it.
3)Meat is murder. Perhaps. but, until the animals start fighting back and start a revolution, I don't really give a crap.
I love the taste of a nice piece of chicken. Some minced meat with pasta. Hell, I'v even eaten Kangaroo and it was great.
2)It's not necessary. Of course not. So is the internet, tv, phones and hats. But I like to little extras in life without needing to justify it.
3)Meat is murder. Perhaps. but, until the animals start fighting back and start a revolution, I don't really give a crap.
I like eating meat but I don't pretend to have any other reason than "I like it". Let's face it, there is no reason for us to be eating meat other than personal pleasure.
As long as my meat didn't suffer when it was alive I don't really care.
As long as my meat didn't suffer when it was alive I don't really care.
His point is that 'normal' animals do not have the intelligence to make a choice. We do. We can decide to not eat animals and not only that, that choice is even a viable choice.
I'm thinking of going vegan myself, not because of lame animal rights or feelings, but because it's less harmful for environment (and I hate that greasy taste). I have to disagree with OP in the "humans =/= animals" part though, we're just monkeys in clothes.
I like eating meat, there is enough of it to go around, as long as the animal isn't arguing about me eating it I'm generally fine, plus I don't really like vegetables, I hate meat substitutes so that's completely off the list.
But of course I still support such things as, no cruelty against animals, and furcoats are unnecessary and to some extent cruel. But I still wear leather, I have no quarrel with that and if you eat beef then neither should you.
But of course I still support such things as, no cruelty against animals, and furcoats are unnecessary and to some extent cruel. But I still wear leather, I have no quarrel with that and if you eat beef then neither should you.