Im super proud of 4chan.

[rbstewart7263]

Seriously for creating Vivian James and for helping TFYC after they were slandered I think this is just the best. I mean some people have written articles talking about how viv was created to "take down all feminists " and blah blah blah but I think this signals that alot of 4chan(not all but alot) does "get it" but is simply tired of the bs surrounding issues of gender in any given media. This si also symbolic as this is historically for the internet, the first time (unless someone corrects me here) that a pro women pro equality group and 4 chan /v/ were able to come together. TFYC didnt use 4chan as another stepping stone to prove something about how terrible the internet is. They worked with them to create something that, while it may not be a big deal to some is a huge deal to others.

seriously though Im digging it.

Obviously im skirting discussion of you know who as that discussion belongs to another thread.

So what do you guys think about Vivian and 4chan and there actions here? what do you think about all the takedown pieces and the opinions they give?(ex: this one):http://www.vice.com/read/meet-the-female-gamer-mascot-created-by-anti-feminists-828

and also for those not in the know heres a pretty good fairly unbiased(in my opinion but im biased so yeah) history of where she come from and how she was made. its,,,inspiring.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/vivian-james

 

[Andy Shandy]

Well I suppose that explains all the people in the Quinn thread.

And I did get a chuckle at our very own Cam from LoadingReadyRun being in that article.

Besides that though, don't really care. If she's part of a good game (or whatever it is they're doing) then great.

 

[scotth266]

I like how in the vice article criticizing Vivian James, there's a lot of "Well, we're not saying that Vivian's a symbol of how sexist 4chan is, but yeah, she totally is guys." I mean, if you're going to be so blatant about your intellectual dishonesty, why bother writing the article in the first place? At least label it an editorial. Good lord.

I won't deny there's a large amount of sexism on 4chan, but this whole Vivian thing has been an honest attempt (or at least the most honest attempt you can get in the anarchy group that is 4chan) attempt to do something positive. Admittedly it's couched in a lot of "Fuck ZQ and Anita Sarkeesian, etc" but the funding of Fine Young Capitalists was an attempt by some of the nutters to prove it isn't female creators they hate - just a certain attitude.

A lot of people like to crack jokes about how male gamers say "SJWs are ruining gaming" (for example, see the whole White Guy Defense Force joke here on Critical Miss) but there's an honest sentiment that gets buried amidst the misogyny that pops up whenever discussions about gaming and sexism begin. When obvious artistic parodies like Dragon's Crown get raked over the coals by writers because "oh man the sorcerer's boobs guys" - well, I'm sorry, but stuff like that indicates that SJWs (or if you prefer, extreme video game feminism) aren't the myth Vice makes them out to be. There's a lot of sexism in gaming, and therefore feminism has a lot of obvious stuff to critique, but some people go completely overboard.

Spoiler: Anyway, here's a video of an otter. Helped me calm down.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I am not sure that people raising money for a cause that they at best don't care for or at worst actively don't like just to spite another group of people and a specific individual in particular is something to be very proud off.

But for being 4chan this is about as close as they get to being collectively civil, nice and reasonable. So I guess that is something, even if it is akin to saying that someone no longer spitting everyone they meet in the face is a sign that that person is mature.

 

[GenuflectHonesty]

I am not sure that people raising money for a cause that they at best don't care for or at worst actively don't like just to spite another group of people and a specific individual in particular is something to be very proud off.

But for being 4chan this is about as close as they get to being collectively civil, nice and reasonable. So I guess that is something, even if it is akin to saying that someone no longer spitting everyone they meet in the face is a sign that that person is mature.

That's not a very nice accusation, you know. /v/ has always cared about everything that could lead to better video games and a better video game industry; they're personally requesting that TFYC make videos about the histories of several major female figures in the industry, like Corrinne Yu, so more people can be aware of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQk_z_vnGGg

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

It's something done out of pure spite. It's admittedly productive and fairly harmless to everyone, but it was done in spite.

Kudos to you, 4chins, but I don't use /v/ or keep on this shitfit so I don't have much else to say.

 

[T_ConX]

I like how 4Chans response to the 'Why are there so few games with female protagonists?' question wasn't 'Give me money to make Youtube videos where I talk about the problem', but rather 'Let's solve that by funding the creation of a game with a female lead'.

It's also cute how everyone who is opposed to this is doing so on the grounds of 'But it's 4Chan!' Their narrative can't handle the fact that a website they hate is doing something good, so they have to assume that there's some sort of vile intention behind it.

To them, it's like watching the KKK clean up the local park. Yes, it's the KKK, but they're cleaning up the goddamn park, which is something I don't see you doing...

 

[AJ_Lethal]

you know that there's a God when 4Chan does a better job than the usual "point fingers and yell at it until they yield over" crowd when it comes to social issues in videogaming.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

4chan since it isn't one entity but seems to be filled by extremes is like a KV-2 derp gun. Some games you have mighty sniper with shells guided by the hands of our wise leader Stalin that shatter the weak German steel and other times you're lucky to hit the field containing the broadside of a barn.

 

[Ishal]

This kinda stuff happens on those boards. It's almost like they aren't one entity that everyone always makes them out to be... huh...

4 chan is the way it is, it has a culture and subcultures just like anywhere else on the internet. It is nice to see them doing good like this. Reminds me of the the "Get well soon" card /v/ sent to one of Nintendo's execs a while back. I think it was Iwata. But yeah, it's a good initiative. Would be cool if they did more things like this.

 

[1Life0Continues]

Ya know, at the risk of Godwinning this thread;

The Nazi party created the autobahn, and the VW Beetle was the brainchild of Hitler and his public policy. Not everything created by a villain is necessarily going to be villainous.

Personally, regardless of the motivations behind it, as petty and spiteful (and yes, I think in some way justified too) as they may be, 4chan has done something decent.

It says something if their mission statement here was "create what most feminists have been asking for because they won't expect it." They're right, we weren't. But thanks! Good job. Credit where it's due.

Now, about that flying car...

 

[Strain42]

A well designed, progressive, and potentially interesting character created entirely out of spite is better than a failed attempted character that often keeps stereotypes stagnant or worse perpetuates the negative ones, the latter of which tends to be a pretty big problem in gaming culture.

But then again most of the things I've done with my life were done out of spite so...y'know...I'm a firm believer that spite can be a powerful driving force for good things.

 

[PunkRex]

So that's who that character is, I saw someone with her as their avatar on Youtube and wondered what she was from.

 

[kortin]

You should probably know that it wasn't /v/ who made Vivian, it was the tumblrites and redditors who were there who made it. Most of us hate Vivian and consider her a mistake.

 

[Phlakes]

you know that there's a God when 4Chan does a better job than the usual "point fingers and yell at it until they yield over" crowd when it comes to social issues in videogaming.

You're assuming that what they've done is actually going to change anything (spoiler alert: it's not). In fact all it's doing, as evidenced by this thread, is giving people who are against actual, reasonable feminism another way to smugly dismiss people who want change.

 

[teh_Canape]

Vivian James is cute brb drawing porn
I'm really interested in how they will make her a character or what role she will play, since she looks too... "normal" I think it's the word
like an unremarkable NPC with a couple lines of dialogue in a game
but I'll just sit and wait how it goes

 

[Therumancer]

Well, as a general rule I agree with them about "Social Justice Warriors" and the taint that attention getting "feminist" arguments in particular is bringing to fandom, not just video games in general is getting.

That said, as a group 4chan knows how to play the game, sometimes you need to play one group of people are bad, against another group of people who are even worse. The trick is not to lose sight of your ultimate goal, which is to seize control of the narrative. In the process if a group your working with can be turned into something positive in the big picture, so be it. I think part of it is that "Fine Young Capitalists" have the potential of becoming a positive force if they give up some of the more radical portions of their stated agenda, which is possible given that your dealing with a group of people. In comparison Zoe is one person whose agenda seems rather clear and your not likely to convince her to change.

That's my take on the subject at any rate, coming from someone who doesn't agree with 4 Chan's "consensus" (as much as they truly have one) on everything, but has generally agreed with them about the problem SJWs, or what I prefer to call "Lib-Trolls" (Trolls who use liberal issues to get attention knowing that they will get support from people who don't think things through) because to me it gets more to the heart of the matter.

As far as saying Zoe isn't a real feminist goes (by some of those links) I have similar opinions about her and Anita Sarkeesian as well. Basically your dealing with self-promoters using the left wing feminist agenda to get attention, knowing they will generate enough support not to get overrun no matter how crazy they get. Where I think Anita has the attention she generates as the goal in of itself, Zoe seems to be more of an artist, she doesn't just want the attention for herself, but wants the attention and notoriety she generates to promote her work. She wants her indie games to become well known (which also promote her) and a big deal, sort of like how a lot of artists back when I was younger who got into this kind of thing ultimately wanted to see their poetry published and get respect from certain circles, or perhaps to see their "life photo" collections do a tour. Given how much someone's work reflects on them, it can become
a subtle distinction, but it's one that does indeed exist. That's why Zoe is willing to sleep with someone from Kotaku (whether it helped or not), but say Anita likely wouldn't sleep with someone to promote her platform or get better distribution, she'd try and find another one, or disappear before that because she really doesn't have any other objectives or a desire to maybe create something lasting... even a monument to her own ego.

I'll also say that I think part of Vivian James is also going to be a demonstration of what a feminist group is going to do with this icon if they honor their agreement. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with it, and it's more or less a blank slate of "what they want" so the big question is how crazy will they get with Vivian James, which will have nothing to do with 4-Chan other than providing the art and some funding. Is Vivian going to start ranting about sexism in video games, and how skimpy the characters dress, and start proclaiming "Anita-isms" about how Chippendales cut guys don't count in reverse because they are "male power fantasies", and of course overlooking the characters female artists and writers make themselves? Basically will 4-Chan's creation become the mouthpiece for all the things they have been complaining about? Or will FYC prove itself more reasonable, which is always possible.

 

[Elijin]

Did I miss something? I looked this up and the design of Vivian seems fine, yet all of the hate uses words like 'sexualised', 'slut', 'f-toy' etc.

Am I super missing something cause she just looks like a random chick in jeans and a jumper with a normal body? Is there some deeper level of horrible, or some inherent 'she has to do sex stuff' that Im not getting?

Or is it just a kneejerk '4chan designed her and they're pervs, so ergo, she must be a product of their kink' happening?

Seriously I am baffled.

 

[kortin]

Did I miss something? I looked this up and the design of Vivian seems fine, yet all of the hate uses words like 'sexualised', 'slut', 'f-toy' etc.

Am I super missing something cause she just looks like a random chick in jeans and a jumper with a normal body? Is there some deeper level of horrible, or some inherent 'she has to do sex stuff' that Im not getting?

Or is it just a kneejerk '4chan designed her and they're pervs, so ergo, she must be a product of their kink' happening?

Seriously I am baffled.

4chan didn't design her. That's why she looks normal. It wasn't /v/ who made her, it was the scummy tumblrites and redditors infesting /v/ because "lol enemies of my enemies are my friends". Ugh, it's absolutely disgusting.

 

[GenuflectHonesty]

Or maybe you don't have to be from Reddit or Tumblr to think that legit feminism is pretty cool?