In defence of the Escapist - from a contributor.

[dyre]

Just out of curiosity, do you know how long Escapist has been having this "we're too poor to pay our contributors on schedule" problem, and if they've taken any steps to fight this problem besides ads?

Seems like a pretty serious problem. It's nice that a lot of you guys are willing to work for delayed pay, but a lot of employees in other companies wouldn't be so considerate!

 

[Dr. wonderful]

Espaist members seems to have the special ability to jump down people throats without information.

I sure as hell did.

 

[lacktheknack]

This echo's Jim Sterling's [https://plus.google.com/u/0/108707773649336345504/posts/FoWugkV4rHY] thoughts on the matter.

*sigh* This whole things just sucks. The more I look over it, the more it just seems like a misunderstanding gone wrong that could have been prevented if both sides signed an actual contract, instead of just going on each other's word.

As for others who haven't been paid/took a long time to get paid, I just don't know.

I just don't know.

This.

Just... this.

I started out calling for the Escapist's head (or I would have had the massive server-crushing hate wave not eaten my posts). Then after sleeping on it, I popped back in and started sticking up for the Escapist. And now I'm headdesking at the mismanagement/miscommunication that started the whole thing. And now it looks as if the Escapist is in deep shit financially, which means that there's completely unrelated problems to deal with now. And I just don't know either.

 

[AngelBlackChaos]

I think that a few small comments from one reviewer on the site (a quote that was used to give reasons for not donating for Yahtzee's PAX adventure) may have made a few people assume that the escapist has a lot of money. Granted, if The Escapist had asked for a donation page, I'm sure no one would mind it too much, and would have been willing to donate. But after this debacle....Idk.

 

[lacktheknack]

Godwin's law strikes again!

If the shoe fits...

The shoe DOESN'T fit. You don't know any more than I do what's going on behind the scenes, but I can guarantee you that the contributors aren't rushing to the Escapist's aid at the moment. The only people who have had positive things to say so far have been Miracle of Sound and Jim Sterling, whilst Extra Credits and pretty much every contributor who's left (Lisa Foiles, Unforgotten Realms) are implying that the Escapist is doing all kinds of messed up stuff financially, while other current contributors (Name Game, No Right Answer) are increasingly concerned about their delayed payments. Yahtzee and Grey Carter (unless I've missed something) haven't said anything yet.

Yeah, sounds like the Third Reich to me. Heh. Sounds more like the US debt issues finally coming out into the open.

 

[Trogdor1138]

Just wanted to add my own two cents while I'm on this thread, I made a fairly knee-jerk post yesterday about being disappointed in The Escapist etc.

But I've had a day to collect some thoughts (and more information about the situation) and let it set in, I'm on the fence about all this now, mainly just waiting to see what happens. So I apologize to everyone at The Escapist about that, this sounds like a situation that just got out of hand and miscommunicated somewhere along the line.

Both parties are in the wrong, plus James shouldn't have publicly revealed all this anyway, it's unprofessional and it's probably made this much more difficult than necessary now. Just saying.

Miracle of Sound always has great posts when I go through the forums, so it's natural that he should make a good post about this, cheers dude.

 

[IkeGreil29]

As always, there's some middle ground that ends up being more correct that either tip of the scale.

 

[commodore96]

I'm glad its coming out that the escapist aren't mega douches like James made them out to be originally. The escapist needs to settle down and get their shit right.

 

[Escapefromwhatever]

It's just that both sides are seen as incredibly nice people, so we don't know how to respond. Add to that us not knowing exactly what went down due to he-said/she-said style of the current argument, and we're even more lost.

 

[Nouw]

What I want to know:

IF the escapist has had been having money issues, why didn't they ask for more donations?

It's clear from the amount of money that was donated to allision that we'd be willing to help...

No I'm pretty sure more people care more about Extra Credits than the Escapist.[sub]From the people who spoke up anyway.[/sub] Just look at everyone boycotting the site and trying to keep their favourite show alive. Then again some care more about their precious Thursday nights and what to do in absence of the show.

It's just that both sides are seen as incredibly nice people, so we don't know how to respond. Add to that us not knowing exactly what went down due to he-said/she-said style of the current argument, and we're even more lost.

I'd rather have everyone lost and confused than everyone pinning the 'right' and 'wrong' on someone. I thought some people were better than that.

 

[eximista]

Godwin's law strikes again!

If the shoe fits...

The shoe DOESN'T fit. You don't know any more than I do what's going on behind the scenes, but I can guarantee you that the contributors aren't rushing to the Escapist's aid at the moment. The only people who have had positive things to say so far have been Miracle of Sound and Jim Sterling, whilst Extra Credits and pretty much every contributor who's left (Lisa Foiles, Unforgotten Realms) are implying that the Escapist is doing all kinds of messed up stuff financially, while other current contributors (Name Game, No Right Answer) are increasingly concerned about their delayed payments. Yahtzee and Grey Carter (unless I've missed something) haven't said anything yet.

Yeah, sounds like the Third Reich to me. Heh. Sounds more like the US debt issues finally coming out into the open.

So did I wrote that escapist killed alot of jews...? No... I just wrote that he is not neutral... like statments from SS guys about hitler.

But yeah... great point. Everbody who not get paid from the escapist says the truth.
And the guy who needs the job because he has no money? Will he tell the truth? I doubt it

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Just out of curiosity, do you know how long Escapist has been having this "we're too poor to pay our contributors on schedule" problem, and if they've taken any steps to fight this problem besides ads?

Seems like a pretty serious problem. It's nice that a lot of you guys are willing to work for delayed pay, but a lot of employees in other companies wouldn't be so considerate!

No, I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that. It's a question for the staff.

It's just that both sides are seen as incredibly nice people, so we don't know how to respond. Add to that us not knowing exactly what went down due to he-said/she-said style of the current argument, and we're even more lost.

My suggestion for how to respond would be to be patient. There is no need for a response from people until the facts are straight.

 

[Danny Ocean]

Nice to hear from someone who is not going batshit crazy and threatening to boycott the site.

Huh? What's been going on?

 

[TimeLord]

Great message Gavin, I hope this helps calm some of the hate for both sides!

 

[Revolutionary]

Thanks for the perspective Gav. I was initially very confused by James' comments because it seemed incongruent (Having been an avid follower of the site and it's nature since I joined in May of 2009). However the (Classy, transparent and calm) Response showed that somewhere along the line there has been some major miscommunication. I sincerely hope that this issue can be resolved and Extra Credits can continue their work on the Escapist.

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

What I want to know:

IF the escapist has had been having money issues, why didn't they ask for more donations?

It's clear from the amount of money that was donated to allision that we'd be willing to help...

No I'm pretty sure more people care more about Extra Credits than the Escapist.[sub]From the people who spoke up anyway.[/sub] Just look at everyone boycotting the site and trying to keep their favourite show alive. Then again some care more about their precious Thursday nights and what to do in absence of the show.

It's just that both sides are seen as incredibly nice people, so we don't know how to respond. Add to that us not knowing exactly what went down due to he-said/she-said style of the current argument, and we're even more lost.

I'd rather have everyone lost and confused than everyone pinning the 'right' and 'wrong' on someone. I thought some people were better than that.

I'm sure a lot of people still would have donated....

I would...

 

[Lieju]

Talking as someone who has relatives who have gotten involved in this kind of business several times(comes with the job of being a free-lancer journalist, I guess), Escapist is a company made of people, a lot of who had nothing to do with this.

And the ones who did, aren't evil people either.
And it seems it's a series of bad decisions, caused by the economic situation.

But I've seen artists and journalists get screwed over this kind of thing so often, I'm instinctively feeling more symphatetic towards that side.

 

[brunothepig]

To me it does seem like Escapist were upfront about not being able to pay many of their contributors, although that may be a little unprofessional I can understand how they might not want to drop some content when they have a lot of awesome contributors. It's a sad situation, but the EC crew have said over and over that they want to see this resolved in the best way possible for both parties. I doubt this would have been an issue if it weren't for EC's sudden money issues, followed by the misunderstanding about that Rockethub thing.

Main problem in this case seems to be miscommunication. I am quite saddened by all this, but hopefully everyone will come out this alright. I'm certainly not picking sides, partly because I don't think either party is really in the wrong, and partly because until those emails are released it's kinda difficult to separate the facts from this mess.

 

[Cenequus]

Hi guys,

Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Gav or 'Miracle Of Sound' and I do an eponymous bi-weekly musical segment here on the site.

As most of you are aware, there has been some controversy relating to contributors getting paid. I have had a lot of people ask me what I think about this situation so I'm here to give you my thoughts, on the forum where I have spent so many good times and felt at home on over the last 3 years.

I can only speak for myself, my opinions and thoughts in no way represent or have anything to do with the Extra Credits team, the Escapist staff or any other contributor.

I have only been working with the site for a short time, but in that time I am happy to say that the staff of the site have been very honest and transparent with me about the situation they are in and how it affects me. I never once felt I was lied to, mislead or treated dishonestly. I have been told exactly what I am owed at any given time, in a direct and simple way that is easy to understand.

Obviously I cannot, and do not wish to, go into detail about the internal business dealings here. I'm just here to say that I think they are good people who work here. They have done me a couple of big favours at very short notice and helped promote my songs in numerous ways (Russ Pitts even spent a great deal of his personal Vacation last week making a video for a song because I urgently needed one for Bioware at Gamescon).

My opinion on the situation in question is that neither side is inherently bad or to blame, but that there has been a massive communication breakdown somewhere down the line.

I certainly do not believe in airing personal disputes on Twitter or in any other public forum, I do not believe in torches and pitchforks and I feel like we would all do well to avoid knee-jerk reactions.

I wish both parties the best and I hope it all gets sorted out and resolved in an amicable way.

Thanks for reading,

Gav (Miracle Of Sound)

I'm following the EC tweets and sorry if I missed all the controversy. All I read was EC saying things would be solved if escapist showed those emails and a pretty big bunch of escapist writters showing either support of talking about beeing in a similar situation.

Still don't see the reason to open a thread to support either EC or escapist(not as a random poster i mean) unless you know more than it is officially out.

Making a crazy example: let's say things go great with Bioware and the release of your album and escapist asks for 75% so it can conyinue to support your escapist song release(not gonna enter in particulars about your IP just making an example).

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Still don't see the reason to open a thread to support either EC or escapist(not as a random poster i mean) unless you know more than it is officially out.

Making a crazy example: let's say things go great with Bioware and the release of your album and escapist asks for 75% so it can support your escapist publishing.

That kind of stuff is avoided by being careful when you sign contracts. that's all I'm going to say about that.

Also, that would never happen