In Defense of Hepler Mode

[Heart of Darkness]

I honestly think BioWare should implement this, as well as the option to skip the cutscenes as well. Then, they should put this on a button--let's call it the "Start" button--and make it so that whenever the button is pressed, you beat the game. Button == Awesome, yes? We shall call it the "Skip Game" button, and the game still will cost 60 USD.

Then BioWare will release DLC that will siphon 15 USD from your bank account every week except for the first week you buy it (for 15 USD). And you don't even have to play anything, since you already skipped the game!

 

[Rob Heywood]

Ultimately a game requires these three elements in order of importance, gameplay ,story, and graphics. Gameplay is by far the most important. If it plays like ass, I'm not interested. Being able to skip gameplay is a hell of a lot more complicated than being able to skip some annoying cutscenes. I mean if you skip one fight, you might as well skip them all in an RPG at least unless you are being somehow auto levelled. I would also argue that as visual novels mostly have zero interactivity that they should not really be seen as games at all, more like e books with pictures. The thing is that hepler mode allows you to play half or less of a game and then what's the point? Skipping a few choice bits of cutscene wo'nt lose you any real progress. Anyway this is a good illustration of how many so called "writers" are so far up themselves that the big picture eludes them.

 

[Knight Templar]

Wouldn't Hepler mode just turn your game into a movie? If I want to watch a movie I'll just watch a movie. If I want to play a game I'll play a game. There's a reason both these mediums exist comfortably parallel to each other.
This isn't complicated, people, if you don't want interactivity go enjoy something that wasn't made specifically to be interactive. There's a reason they're called video GAMES.

Sorry to single you out but I don't think people are getting the message. Hepler made this suggestion with games such as Mass Effect, Dragon Age and Deus Ex in mind, games where the story is told via dialog that exists as a form of gameplay, in addition to exploration and other non-combat methods.

"Granted, many games would have very little left if you removed the combat, but for a game like Deus Ex or Bioware's RPGs, you could take out every shred of combat and still have an entertainment experience that rivals anything you'd see in the theater or on TV."

 

[Arppis]

So, nobody thought of trying to argue putting more emphasis on diplomacy then? Or alternative paths or stealth way?

Those would circuvent the combat.

But I really don't see the big fuzz, if it was a seperate option.

 

[bobmus]

It's not what I go to gaming for, and I'd be pissed if I clicked it accidentally, but I see no reason why it shouldn't be an option for some people

 

[minuialear]

Ultimately a game requires these three elements in order of importance, gameplay ,story, and graphics. Gameplay is by far the most important. If it plays like ass, I'm not interested. Being able to skip gameplay is a hell of a lot more complicated than being able to skip some annoying cutscenes. I mean if you skip one fight, you might as well skip them all in an RPG at least unless you are being somehow auto levelled. I would also argue that as visual novels mostly have zero interactivity that they should not really be seen as games at all, more like e books with pictures. The thing is that hepler mode allows you to play half or less of a game and then what's the point? Skipping a few choice bits of cutscene wo'nt lose you any real progress. Anyway this is a good illustration of how many so called "writers" are so far up themselves that the big picture eludes them.

I think it can be argued that having to navigate discussion trees in a manner that allows you to do certain things in a game, still qualifies as "gameplay." Or that exploring a world and fullfiling non-violent side quests can still qualify as "gameplay." Combat (the ONLY thing that Hepler was suggesting would be skipped) is not the only form of gameplay that exists in games, and to suggest that removing combat removes gameplay entirely in a game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age (the two games she was probably considering applying this to) is fairly narrow-minded.

Not to mention, while you think "skipping a few choice bits of cutscene won't lose you any real progress," there are plenty of gamers who care more about the storylines behind RPGs (after all, the thing that has historically set RPGs apart from other genres is the emphasis on story), and would disagree with what you place the most importance on in the game.

While neither opinion (combat or story is more important) is necessarily more correct than the other, you're not helping your case by assuming that everyone has the exact same priorities as you. Especially when we're talking about a genre that historically has put a higher emphasis on story than on combat, which is antithetical to your claims.

 

[esperandote]

As I loosely recall she said she wanted to skip anything that involved hand coordination not just combat but im not going to get into that debate again.

I respect people that want to skip gameplay (If they want to pay 60 for a visual novel the fine by me) but the examples you gave were more about poorly designed combat not about not liking combat in general.

The rage that Jennifer got wasn't right but it wasn't unexpected either.

 

[Brainstrain]

Is anyone else going through this thread and just control-F'ing for "Helper?"

 

[JayDig]

Some people prefer the interactive story aspect of gaming more than the interactive shooting. Unfortunately, games are 90% about shooting. Until more games are about story, those non-shooty people will have to keep replaying LA Noire and Hard Rain.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

Eight replies on this page and only one of them was objectively useless. I'm starting to feel a bit better about this thread.

Hypocrisy by the books right there...

Edit: Shit, I should say something objective to avoid any irony from my post...

Um... Hepler is really stupid for opening her mouth in the first place and should probably write books or something.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

Hypocrisy by the books right there...

Edit: Shit, I should say something objective to avoid any irony from my post...

Um... Hepler is really stupid for opening her mouth in the first place and should probably write books or something.

You make it very easy for me to feel morally and intellectually superior. Just thought I'd let you know.

Do you have anything to say about Shamus's points? Because I would love to talk about them.

You can talk about them with other people who have their heads as far up their asses as you.

I can, however, assure you that you are most likely not intellectually superior to me; to be completely honest, very few people are (Although you are potentially morally superior. I never cared much for the silly culturally relative "rules" I've come across, regardless of what part of the world I happen to be in.).

But thank you for letting me know I was able to bolster your confidence. You might wanna step down off your internet soap box for a minute and listen though... You might learn something.

Ah, look at me, arguing with an abrasively arrogant adolescent... The 20 year old me would hate me so much right now.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

You can talk about them with other people who have their heads as far up their asses as you.

So you didn't actually read Shamus's article, then? Also, why do you care how I play games? Why are you so angry that I would like the option to skip, for example, vehicle sections and get back to the parts of the game that I enjoy? Why does that offend you so much?

See, yeah... I never said any of that stuff. You just assumed all of that.

All I said was that your initial statement about posts in this thread being nonobjective was technically hypocritical because the post in which you made said claim was, in and of itself, nonobjective relative to the thread topic. If this came off as dickish, I'm sorry. It was intended to be funny, but not at your expense.

After that, I said that Hepler was stupid for saying what she said. The way she said it was sort of intended to push buttons, and I think she could have suggested it differently.

However, I also don't believe that she should be writing for video games if she doesn't like to play them. If I was a writer I would write for a medium I actually enjoyed. I think anyone writing for a video game should write in a way that is stylistically compatible with gameplay. If they don't "enjoy" the gameplay, it will negatively affect their ability to write, especially around specific gameplay heavy moments. I think Mass Effect and Dragon Age both have this very awkward pacing during intense parts where the people just don't seem too attached to the things going on around them, and that is really a result of people like Hepler.

The best games are made by teams that are constantly communicating and collaborating... not by seclusive cliques that only care about their own contribution to the game.

 

[Knight Templar]

The way she said it was sort of intended to push buttons

Have you actually read the interview yourself? Have you gone to the site, via wayback machine, and read the words on the page, or have you only read the edited and chopped together versions out there?

If you have read it, please tell me how it is intentionally trying to piss people off.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

The way she said it was sort of intended to push buttons

Have you actually read the interview yourself? Have you gone to the site, via wayback machine, and read the words on the page, or have you only read the edited and chopped together versions out there?

If you have read it, please tell me how it is intentionally trying to piss people off.

God what is it with you guys and the accusations of ignorance when people disagree?

YES! I saw the original image on reddit, read the interview itself, and read the article by the guy defending it.

Next time, instead of trying to belittle valid points by attacking the knowledge of your opposition, just get to the point and say something like "I don't see how it is intentionally trying to piss people off. What makes you say that?"

You sound like a freaking defensive Bill O'Rielly or something. It's actually okay to disagree about something and still be respectful to one another.

Anyway, back on topic...

The entire response to the question "What is your least favorite thing about working in the industry?" is phrased poorly and seems intended to be both shocking and to push buttons. I don't think she was trying to "piss people off", as you put it, but I think she just really didn't have a good answer to the question, and said something stupid as a result. Neither one of us can really "prove" her intent, but in my opinion, that is what it sounded like.

Also, it's hard to decipher from an interview (which is "edited and chopped" as is), but it sounds like "Hepler mode" was just a joke about her not having enough time on her hands, and you all took up pitchforks to fight about it.

It's just not a good idea.

99.99999% of the time, games are not built around plots. Plots are built around games. The story is, essentially, a motivator to stifle that feeling of redundancy from repeating the same shit over and over.

Think, from a game design perspective, about how a Mass Effect playthrough would play out with the ability to skip gameplay. You would get to a part that you can't beat on the first few tries, and just skip that part. Suddenly your sense of accomplishment and attachment to the PC is destroyed, and you are simply playing the game to get to the end and find out what happens. Don't believe me? Pick up any game and cheat your way through it, and tell me that you think you enjoyed it as much as you could have.

"Hepler mode" is essentially invincibility mode except you don't even get to play the game.

Make it optional, you say?

Think about fast traveling in Bethesda games. I wish it was just never invented. Bethesda games would be so fucking amazing if you had to get around without fast traveling. But the fact that the option even exists spoils people and makes it impossible to not use. Look at all the people who complained that New Vegas was a "small" game. No one would have even considered saying that if there was no fast travel.

I can assure you all that there will never be a [good] video game with a gameplay-skip mode of that sort because that's a fucking stupid idea. End of story on that one. I'm not even arguing about that, and I won't. If I get proven wrong, come back here and tell me and I'll mail you $20 bucks or something.

What I will say, is that this Hepler woman sounds like she needs a different job. Like I said before, good games are made in well-coordinated teams. I've contributed to games with as few as 3 other people and as many as ~25 while finishing up my game design degree, and I can say for a fact that if you have writers who don't care about gameplay, their writing will suffer. If you have animators who don't care about the music and sounds, their animations will suffer.

Affinity for your own contributions is completely normal and understandable, but when you claim to dislike the undisputed core of a medium, you should probably rethink your career.

Well, therein is part of Shamus's point. I'm a writer myself. I don't especially like FPSs, but if asked to write one I'd take the job. Man's gotta eat. I'll put my effort into it certainly, but it's not going to change the fact that at the end of the day, FPS is not my favorite genre.

I don't blame you for that at all, but I'm sure you'd agree that you would write much better for a game that you were heavily invested in. Also, at least you still like playing video games in general at the end of the day, and I'm sure you have played at least one FPS where you enjoyed it.

Shamus suggested why not have a mode where people can skip certain parts of gameplay if they don't like those parts? It's like I've asked repeatedly in the thread: I don't like vehicle sections. Having the option to skip them would be nice so that I can get back to the parts I like. People kept bringing up LA Noire as proof that the idea is shit, but I don't buy that because what annoyed me about the skipping in LA Noire was that I had to fail a bunch of times first. It ended up feeling less like the game was saying, "If you don't like these driving missions, just go ahead and skip it," and more like it was saying, "Oh Jesus, we're gonna be at this all night. Look, how about you just skip this one, okay short-bus?"

That is one solution. The problem lies in where you draw the line. What parts are skippable?

A well designed game would allow you to skip a driving section without breaking realism and without giving you a "fast-track" through the game. That is the true problem with "Hepler mode".

On top of that, how about more games with non-combat mechanics. I still enjoy Echo Bazaar. And when I heard about Double Fine's Kickstarter for an adventure game, I had to go put on some pants so that I could crap them. And I actually prefer to play Minecraft on Peaceful and just build shit without having to worry about creepers sneaking up on me while I'm constructing a giant cemetery. If I had a DS, I would probably play the Ace Attorney games. And I'm fairly confident that expanding on the dialog boss mechanics in Deus Ex: Human Revolution could create a really fun game in which the core mechanic was being a police negotiator trying to talk down perpetrators and free hostages. Combat is gameplay, but not all gameplay is combat.

Can't argue with that. Portal 2 is my favorite game of all time, and there is VERY little combat (if you could even call it that).

EDIT: Clarification.

 

[Knight Templar]

You sound like a freaking defensive Bill O'Rielly or something. It's actually okay to disagree about something and still be respectful to one another.

Your actions indicate otherwise.
I ask a question because nothing she says is that provocative, and you decide to throw insults at me. Pot to Kettle.

he entire response to the question "What is your least favorite thing about working in the industry?" is phrased poorly and seems intended to be both shocking and to push buttons.

How? She makes it clear that combat isn't something she is good at, and most games are about little else.
Should she have lied? Should she have buried the answer under PR talk? Is the rest of the answer explaining the initial statement not enough to prevent knee-jerk reactions?

Also, it's hard to decipher from an interview (which is "edited and chopped" as is),

Question -> Answer is how most interviews are structured. This is not helping to dispel the image that you have not actually read the interview, along with the lack of specifics and statements such as:
", but when you claim to dislike the undisputed core of a medium"
Combat isn't the core of the medium, are you not getting this message. She doesn't suggest or say anything that hasn't been said elsewhere, or done elsewhere.


You are going on about something that was not said, forgive me if it looks like you do not know what was said. You have only yourself to blame for that situation. It does not help that you have all but admitted you refuse to be wrong on the issue of the suggestion.

 

[TomLikesGuitar]

I'm done responding you after this, because you're kind of insufferable with your excessive condescension.

Question -> Answer is how most interviews are structured.

True. What you may not know, however, is that when an interview is done, the interviewee signs a release form stating that, so long as the general context is the same, the specific words and terminology used are not necessary. Usually the editor will try to eliminate any bias or controversial statements made so as to stay on topic, but there is also a lot of editing done for brevity's sake. Sometimes this can fog up the intent of certain statements.

The point is that we have to agree to disagree on whether she was intentionally being controversial by saying she doesn't like playing games.

This is not helping to dispel the image that you have not actually read the interview, along with the lack of specifics and statements such as:
", but when you claim to dislike the undisputed core of a medium"
Combat isn't the core of the medium, are you not getting this message.

I think you may want to reread the whole interview my friend. She actually doesn't mention "combat" at all in the answer to the question at hand.

You are going on about something that was not said,

Oh the irony ...

Here... let me copy the question and answer that I am referring to so you can re-read it.

What is your least favorite thing about working in the industry?

Playing the games. This is probably a terrible thing to admit, but it has definitely been the single most difficult thing for me. I came into the job out of a love of writing, not a love of playing games. While I enjoy the interactive aspects of gaming, if a game doesn't have a good story, it's very hard for me to get interested in playing it. Similarly, I'm really terrible at so many things which most games use incessantly -- I have awful hand-eye coordination, I don't like tactics, I don't like fighting, I don't like keeping track of inventory, and I can't read a game map to save my life. This makes it very difficult for me to play to the myriad games I really should be keeping up on as our competition.

And with a baby on the way in a few months, my minimal free time (which makes it impossible for me to finish a big RPG in less than six months already), will disappear entirely. If there was a fast-forward feature on games which would let me easily review the writing and stories and skip the features that I find more frustrating than fun, I'd find it much easier to keep abreast of what's happening in the field.

So... in this specific question, she is saying that she prefers the story part of games and dislikes playing games... not just combat, but games in general. Essentially, she is saying that she dislikes gameplay.

Let's go back to my statement, shall we?

when you claim to dislike the undisputed core of a medium

Gameplay, Knight Templar, is the undisputed core of video games.

Re-read my wall of text if you want an explanation about why that makes her, by default, a poor writer to use in a video game.

Have the final word if you like, but seriously... try to lighten up. There's no reason to be rude or demeaning in a silly argument about something as stupid as this.