In Defense of Hepler Mode

Farthing

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Huh, the fact that this riles people up is more interesting than the comment itself. Granted I feel the comment is laughable in my gut, but logically it makes sense.

Why are we allowed to complete a game with no real knowledge of a story because we skipped all the cut-scenes? Well, often times you aren't. Cut scenes tell you where to go and what to do. Skipping them will often leave you clueless with a timer ticking over your head and no idea where to go. Of course, over time, features added to the game have made this less the case, but there's still plenty to miss. Imagine skipping all the dialogue in Neverwinter Nights and figuring out what to do. Sure, if you've been gaming for a while you might have a general sense of "go forward", but even that can be a thin guideline.

At the end of the day, even if you made it through the entire game skipping all the story elements, you still have a story. A virtual agent controlled by you defeated a series of puzzles (deterministic or nondeterministic). Or maybe even didn't defeat the puzzles. Something happened and the record of that is a story.

By the same token, if you skip all the gameplay, guess what? Something still happened. While you were watching the story unfold, you were making predictions over what characters would do and in your head imagining how they would defeat the series of puzzles the characters would encounter. Even if the story was entirely linear, you have still made a series of interesting choices making it a game.

The above two paragraphs you will note, are needlessly philosophical, reducing both gameplay and story to parts of one another. What we are actually looking for here is the reason the community flipped out. There are several underlying problems. First is in what people value.

By virtue of the way games have been made for the past 30ish years, gameplay IS the game. That is what the modern notion of "game" was built around, and gameplay is what attracted people and formed the "gaming community". Even if you don't actually value gameplay yourself, that is the perceived notion of what those around you value. When someone implies that gameplay is unimportant to a group in the gaming community, they will hear "video games are a waste of time". This can be heard all over the country and world and never causes such a riot as Hepler's comments.

Here's where the second problem comes in. Another value of the gaming community is of course, the developers. Developers may or may not be gamers, but nevertheless, the gaming community looks to them as the gods of their world. In different communities I will hear players curse Blizzard, Riot or Bethesda with the same fervor one blames god for one's car not starting. Devs are literally the creators of the worlds that gamers spend hours and days of their lives in. Hepler is a developer. A writer, but also a developer. So her innocent opinion that she doesn't enjoy gameplay was seen by the community similarly to how much of the USA would react if the President openly said "Look, this civil liberties thing? I'm not really a fan." Political feces flinging ensues and here we are today wondering how all this got started.

But here's the flip side. There's another community that's being overlooked. The writing community. Hepler might not be a gamer, but she is a writer. Generalizing, I imagine that she cares about writing the same way most gamers care about games. So she has a right every time you skip a cut-scene to feel the same rage the gaming community exhibits when someone mentions that gameplay should be skippable.

As far as gameplay vs. story goes, many of the medium-for-expression crowd gamers were also likely to be offended by this comment. Possibly more than the writers or the gamers alone. Generalizing, those people that I've met and read articles by that view games as the next great medium value both the story and the gameplay as two parts of an organism. To say that the organism would be just fine as one part or the other is cutting short the amount of wonder that can come from the organism as a whole, with all organs fully functioning. Most of these people are game developers and so view this as a betrayal from within their own ranks.

Its easy to say "well she should stick to writing novels or movies or something". People SHOULD stick to doing the things they love, but its hard to know what you will and won't love. Maybe she was having a bad day, and a single statement slipped her feelings of the moment into the world's image of what she is like all the time. Alternatively, maybe she always has wanted to be a pure novelist or playwrite, but she had a friend who had a friend and decided that bringing a story to one of Bioware's games would be a worthwhile endeavor. And of course it is also entirely possible that she was just in it for the money. The point is beyond this one comment about gameplay that is at the end of the day perfectly logical, if inadvertently devaluing much of a gamer's play-time, we really don't know much about Hepler and who she really is.

TLDR: Story and gameplay as concepts both exist as part of each other, even if they are not exhibiting the traits we normally associate with one or the other

"Gameplayless" games are entirely possible and already exist. See visual novels

A portion of the gaming community were insulted by the idea that gameplay might not be valuable to a representative of the gaming industry.

A portion of developers were insulted by the idea that the work they put into blending story and gameplay is not valued by some.

Writers may feel the same insult that gamers feel about skipping gameplay every time you skip a cutscene.

Hepler was just reflecting her personal opinion of what she does and does not enjoy, hardly anticipating this backlash. Beyond this we know really nothing about her.
 

mfeff

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Nov 8, 2010
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Look, what is being talked about here has already been done... and better... much much better by better developers. I got games on the old Sega Saturn that did (all of this) quite well. For reference let us examine a modern game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a18M1dJdlU0&feature=relmfu

Getting away from technical mechanics, strategy, and tactics destroys by "most" definition the very "idea" of what "game" means.

Intentionally "cordoning off" the game play from the narrative exposition cripples some of the strongest elements of the strategic simulation that is available to the game developer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbUQiF45V_k&feature=fvwrel

Done right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBAgYtHHiUU

Done WRONG!

How old school can we go?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldmGKPGzxYw&feature=relmfu

(Pets his original pristine copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga signed by Team Andromeda). Pure Art! Which by the by, is compliant with the definition of art for if my copy is destroyed all remaining copies go up in value.

But keep on doin whatch'a doin... what do I know.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Gerishnakov said:
Eamar said:
I entirely agree. I'm not saying I'd use the Hepler option a lot but...
that final battle before the non combat ending segment of ME3 almost had me tearing my hair out. There's a bit where you have to take on (I think) four or five Brutes at once, which was almost game-breakingly hard, I mean both of my squadmates were dying as fast as I could revive them. I might have just skipped that bit.
Fletcher shotgun + fire rounds = quickly killed brutes.

At least, that's what I saw when my brother did it as a soldier. He was dominating those things so hard I thought he was cheating or something.

I also managed to do fairly well on that part as an Adept with the same shotgun and LOTS of Warp spam.
 

Simonoly

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I'll have a Hepler mode for Enslaved: Odyssey to the West please! I love the story, characters, cutscenes and platforming/exploration sections where you avoid enemies, but the actual combat is really boring me and just feels like it's getting in the way.
 

FredTheUndead

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Aug 13, 2010
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DrVornoff said:
No, I think people who can't put aside the vitriol for 10 seconds are horrible people. Do I think you're all mosigynists? No, never said that. Just horrible people.
You heard it here first folks: misogynists are not horrible people.
 

sumanai

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Jan 17, 2008
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Timmibal said:
sumanai said:
@Timmibal - Changing the argument so it's easier to argue against? Classy.
I'm not changing the argument. I'm taking what she SAID in context, to determine what she MEANT. And the only thing I can infer is that Ms. Hepler would prefer an interactive movie with a dialogue wheel that doesn't involve any kind of effort, challenge or time commitment. Due to her self-admission of being adverse to games, this is not surprising.
She spoke about skipping gameplay, combat to be precise for the purposes of getting access to other gameplay. You talked about skipping challenge. It doesn't make sense without equating challenge with combat. Hence the latter part.

What she meant is irrelevant. She can mean in her head whatever she wants, that doesn't change what she said. Arguing against something that wasn't actually vocalised is pointless. Also shouldn't we be discussing what Shamus had say about it, not whatever Hepler has going in her head?

Timmibal said:
Specific to her view on games, however. Do you trust a Jeweller with an allergy to gold? A vegetarian Butcher? A Chocolatier who hates chocolate? An abstinent Brewer or Vitner?
Nitpicking: I've been served by abstinent bartenders. I'd have to know why the butcher is a vegetarian. I don't see why the jeweller couldn't just use sterling silver, bronze etc. I'm not arguing against your stance, I don't know Hepler well enough, but I don't think the analogies are working.
 

sumanai

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FredTheUndead said:
DrVornoff said:
No, I think people who can't put aside the vitriol for 10 seconds are horrible people. Do I think you're all mosigynists? No, never said that. Just horrible people.
You heard it here first folks: misogynists are not horrible people.
Misogynists might all be horrible people, but not all horrible people are misogynists. If you take that into consideration you might realise what he is actually saying.
 

FredTheUndead

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sumanai said:
FredTheUndead said:
DrVornoff said:
No, I think people who can't put aside the vitriol for 10 seconds are horrible people. Do I think you're all mosigynists? No, never said that. Just horrible people.
You heard it here first folks: misogynists are not horrible people.
Misogynists might all be horrible people, but not all horrible people are misogynists. If you take that into consideration you might realise what he is actually saying.
Lord only knows I couldn't be being sarcastic. The man is a pretentious ass and I've stopped bothering trying to engage him in any serious fashion.


But yes, aside of genuine harassment like visiting her house and such (not that I've ever seen any proof that such a thing occurred), Hepler has basically brought the firestorm on herself. She can't write, neither she nor anyone at Bioware understands damage control, and the entire ship is sinking because of accumulated problems like Hepler herself or Gaider.
 

Knight Templar

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FredTheUndead said:
But yes, aside of genuine harassment like visiting her house and such (not that I've ever seen any proof that such a thing occurred), Hepler has basically brought the firestorm on herself. She can't write, neither she nor anyone at Bioware understands damage control, and the entire ship is sinking because of accumulated problems like Hepler herself or Gaider.
I am getting tired of you. I have asked you to support the notion that she is a terrible writer, I have pointed out that some of your reasons for saying she brought this on her self are lies, and others are unreasonable.
Yet you just keep repeating that somehow she deserved to be harassed like this. You are the problem in this situation, your blind hate and insistence that she must deserve it, even if the reason you and others have is wrong.
 

FredTheUndead

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Knight Templar said:
FredTheUndead said:
But yes, aside of genuine harassment like visiting her house and such (not that I've ever seen any proof that such a thing occurred), Hepler has basically brought the firestorm on herself. She can't write, neither she nor anyone at Bioware understands damage control, and the entire ship is sinking because of accumulated problems like Hepler herself or Gaider.
I am getting tired of you. I have asked you to support the notion that she is a terrible writer, I have pointed out that some of your reasons for saying she brought this on her self are lies, and others are unreasonable.
Yet you just keep repeating that somehow she deserved to be harassed like this. You are the problem in this situation, your blind hate and insistence that she must deserve it, even if the reason you and others have is wrong.
The onus for proof SHOULD be on you, being the one suggesting the more patently ridiculous thing.

But for proof she (and Gaider) are terrible writers, look no further than any given romance scene in Dragon Age 2. Hell, look at the video posted earlier in the thread, it nicely demonstrates Hepler's "skill."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QLz0CqtMVc&list=UUyjLGp8hQObJMm4lSQccjFw&index=6&feature=plcp

Tripe. Utter tripe.

Honestly we wouldn't be having this argument at all if it weren't for y'all getting so upset over a simply, clear metaphor.
 

FredTheUndead

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DrVornoff said:
Stilt said:
While I dont agree with bullying either, Ms. Hepler SHOULD have known what she was getting into by saying people are envious of her vagina or her position as a writer in a mega corporation. Instead of solving her problem, she made it a billion times worse. Now people who didnt give a rats ass before have a motivation to call her out on her shit.

Now i get that her original comments werent meant to be inflammatory even though knowing how gamers GENERALLY are, she should have known (or someone over in the Chucky cheese that is the EA-Bioware marketing dept should have known) that her comments were going to make people angry. If you're going to make your comments public like that, you cant be so sensitive to what they might say, and especially dont make it known that you are sensitive. She made this all too clear with her response, and it only added shit on top of shit to the pile.
Does that make what happened to her right? Yes or no will suffice.
Yes. Yes it does. When, as a professional, you utterly fail at both your job and damage control, you DO deserve the shit that will be piled on you. You do not jump around the monkey cage throwing your shit at people and expect them to not be annoyed. CONTINUE throwing it for years and years, ignoring any and all criticisms and objections, and you are going to catch more than just a little heat.

This is not some random recent development. The current climate is the culmination of the shit piled up by everyone at Bioware. Hepler has made herself by far the easiest target.

I have to ask, do you also rabidly defend Bobby Kotick like this, or is Hepler just a special case?
 

Knight Templar

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FredTheUndead said:
The onus for proof SHOULD be on you, being the one suggesting the more patently ridiculous thing.
That you do not understand burden of proof is a not a good sign for you.

I've already caught you spreading lies once, forgive me if I have less than zero reason to take what you say on faith.

But for proof she (and Gaider) are terrible writers, look no further than any given romance scene in Dragon Age 2. Hell, look at the video posted earlier in the thread, it nicely demonstrates Hepler's "skill."
Posting troll videos will not go over well with me. I'm asking you, so use your words. If you are unable to make any argument supportive of your position then that would suggest your position in wrong.
You cannot simply say "Look it's terrible" because that isn't an argument, that is you repeating yourself. You are aware how you look if when asked to support your claim you repeat it? You look simple, that is not something you want I would assume.



Honestly we wouldn't be having this argument at all if it weren't for y'all getting so upset over a simply, clear metaphor.
What are you talking about here exactly?
My problem is what you have been saying is either provably wrong or without basis.
 

FredTheUndead

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Aug 13, 2010
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Knight Templar said:
FredTheUndead said:
The onus for proof SHOULD be on you, being the one suggesting the more patently ridiculous thing.
That you do not understand burden of proof is a not a good sign for you.

I've already caught you spreading lies once, forgive me if I have less than zero reason to take what you say on faith.

But for proof she (and Gaider) are terrible writers, look no further than any given romance scene in Dragon Age 2. Hell, look at the video posted earlier in the thread, it nicely demonstrates Hepler's "skill."
Posting troll videos will not go over well with me. I'm asking you, so use your words. If you are unable to make any argument supportive of your position then that would suggest your position in wrong.
You cannot simply say "Look it's terrible" because that isn't an argument, that is you repeating yourself. You are aware how you look if when asked to support your claim you repeat it? You look simple, that is not something you want I would assume.



Honestly we wouldn't be having this argument at all if it weren't for y'all getting so upset over a simply, clear metaphor.
What are you talking about here exactly?
My problem is what you have been saying is either provably wrong or without basis.
Let the record show that when presented with footage of the goddamn game, the prosecution said "oh well THAT'S NOT EVIDENCE, TROLL VIDEO, TRY AGAIN."
 

The Ubermensch

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Mar 6, 2012
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I think Hepler mode is a really good idea. I remember when I was about 10 and I was watching a mates older brother play Soul Reaver... that's one of the things that got me into gaming. When I finally cobbled enough money together to get my own rig (costing $2000 when I was 15) the first game I got was Soul Reaver. And then I learned so much emulators and shit like that because it was made for 98 and I was running XP... then I found compatiblity mode that was built into the OS... *shoots self in face*

My point is the reason I have a gaming addiction (The loss in productivity I have suffered since ME3 "ended" proves that I have a problem) is because of Hepler mode... SO FUCK YOU HEPLER!!! YOU WANNA GET MORE PEOPLE HOOKED ON THIS SHIT?

I kid

I mean the person playing through Hepler mode doesn't get the full experience sure, but it broadens the appeal to more people. and on the plus side, if game developers were getting more sales from the story side, they might just start focusing on the story a bit more and I dunno, ending it better.

Providing the gameplay isn't sacrificed.

Also, it should be noted that I was out of the loop as far as the Hepler controversy was concerned, but Shamus's explanation seems quite reasonable... however it could be a straw man argument... AND SHE COULD BE A COMPLETE *****!