In Defense of Hepler Mode

[The Ubermensch]

The onus for proof SHOULD be on you, being the one suggesting the more patently ridiculous thing.

That you do not understand burden of proof is a not a good sign for you.

I've already caught you spreading lies once, forgive me if I have less than zero reason to take what you say on faith.

But for proof she (and Gaider) are terrible writers, look no further than any given romance scene in Dragon Age 2. Hell, look at the video posted earlier in the thread, it nicely demonstrates Hepler's "skill."

Posting troll videos will not go over well with me. I'm asking you, so use your words. If you are unable to make any argument supportive of your position then that would suggest your position in wrong.
You cannot simply say "Look it's terrible" because that isn't an argument, that is you repeating yourself. You are aware how you look if when asked to support your claim you repeat it? You look simple, that is not something you want I would assume.

Honestly we wouldn't be having this argument at all if it weren't for y'all getting so upset over a simply, clear metaphor.

What are you talking about here exactly?
My problem is what you have been saying is either provably wrong or without basis.

Let the record show that when presented with footage of the goddamn game, the prosecution said "oh well THAT'S NOT EVIDENCE, TROLL VIDEO, TRY AGAIN."

Dude, Chill, seriously, you'll give your self an anurisim.

I agree... The Dragon Age II romances are shit, but *Shurg* you're forgetting that people are stupid. You can't just hold up anything, no matter how shit it is, and say its shit; you need to justify the statement. Any lawyer in a court room will break down video footage for the benefit of the jury so they can understand the evidence better.

 

[FredTheUndead]

Yes. Yes it does.

Then I was right about you. A pleasure doing business with you.

I have to ask, do you also rabidly defend Bobby Kotick like this, or is Hepler just a special case?

If he is receiving death threats and being harassed and having his personal information posted online without his consent (which happened to Hepler and which you are condoning), point me to those people so that I can slap them in the head and tell them to stop acting like fucking savages. I've cracked the odd joke at the dude's expense, but always in relation to his bad ideas such as breaking up a three act game into three separate games and charging full price for all of them. I have never once made a fat joke or a Sith lord joke. Mostly because I have some self-respect and what many would consider to be a conscience.

No, instead I choose to exercise my disapproval of Activision's bad business decisions by no longer buying their products. I also don't feel the need to remind the internet of this every twenty minutes. I can trust you all to remember that, or if it comes up in conversation, I figure a quick explanation of my reasoning is all that's needed and we can move on because my purchasing habits are probably not terribly interesting to anyone who isn't psychotic.

I know this all sounds very revolutionary and counterintuitive, but this whole conscience and personal integrity thing really does work.

And once again you resort to lying when all else fails.

I have said REPEATEDLY that I do not condone the death threats, the visitations, and all that guff. I speak, as I always have, strictly of insults sent her way regarding her tangible effects on the products Bioware, a company I once loved, puts out, and her handling of legitimate criticisms on this point.

YOU have spent this whole thread complaining about my word choice of "tumor." You have been pitching a fit over this and because of that seen fit to place upon me positions I've never stood for.

The onus for proof SHOULD be on you, being the one suggesting the more patently ridiculous thing.

That you do not understand burden of proof is a not a good sign for you.

I've already caught you spreading lies once, forgive me if I have less than zero reason to take what you say on faith.

But for proof she (and Gaider) are terrible writers, look no further than any given romance scene in Dragon Age 2. Hell, look at the video posted earlier in the thread, it nicely demonstrates Hepler's "skill."

Posting troll videos will not go over well with me. I'm asking you, so use your words. If you are unable to make any argument supportive of your position then that would suggest your position in wrong.
You cannot simply say "Look it's terrible" because that isn't an argument, that is you repeating yourself. You are aware how you look if when asked to support your claim you repeat it? You look simple, that is not something you want I would assume.

Honestly we wouldn't be having this argument at all if it weren't for y'all getting so upset over a simply, clear metaphor.

What are you talking about here exactly?
My problem is what you have been saying is either provably wrong or without basis.

Let the record show that when presented with footage of the goddamn game, the prosecution said "oh well THAT'S NOT EVIDENCE, TROLL VIDEO, TRY AGAIN."

Dude, Chill, seriously, you'll give your self an anurisim.

I agree... The Dragon Age II romances are shit, but *Shurg* you're forgetting that people are stupid. You can't just hold up anything, no matter how shit it is, and say its shit; you need to justify the statement. Any lawyer in a court room will break down video footage for the benefit of the jury so they can understand the evidence better.

Yes, that is true, however the courts have tangible things at stake in them. Here I'm just dealing with two assholes who really seem attached to Hepler. I have no reason to do anything but low effort posts. The only reason I respond at all is because they're leveling personal insults at me over my dislike of their beloved Undead Bioware.

Besides, romance in particular is a genre that relies on emotion and instinct, moreso than almost any other. If hearing that dialogue doesn't make you retch, there's really no hope for you, no logical argument will change your mind.

 

[Knight Templar]

Let the record show that when presented with footage of the goddamn game, the prosecution said "oh well THAT'S NOT EVIDENCE, TROLL VIDEO, TRY AGAIN."

Did you not read any of what I posted? I guess it doesn't matter. The point wasn't to show you that you were wrong, you have already demonstrated that you do not care you are wrong.
The point in attempting to talk with you was that anybody reading would know you are a liar who is unable to support his own claims.

This has been done. You apparently did not even know of this video untill it was shown to you, so using it as at best a post-hoc defence wouldn't cut it even if it wasn't blatantly trolling.

Should you ever decide that maybe you can defend you baseless and disgusting attacks we can continue this, untill then your trolling is not amusing.

Just to hammer the point home, she didn't write the romances that the video shows, or uses to support itself. You are using the existence of some character and romance written by another person as evidence for the notion that Hepler is all that you say. This is why the video is trolling and doesn't support what you say. This is why I can say you are unable to support yourself.

 

[FredTheUndead]

And once again you resort to lying when all else fails.

I have said REPEATEDLY that I do not condone the death threats, the visitations, and all that guff. I speak, as I always have, strictly of insults sent her way regarding her tangible effects on the products Bioware, a company I once loved, puts out, and her handling of legitimate criticisms on this point.

I asked if the treatment she received, all of it, was justified and you said yes. Don't bullshit me.

YOU have spent this whole thread complaining about my word choice of "tumor." You have been pitching a fit over this and because of that seen fit to place upon me positions I've never stood for.

Then stop being an apologist for a bunch of savages by tacitly encouraging more of their bullshit through your actions. You're just making things worse by talking like that.

I explicitly DIDN'T say all of it was justified. I've denied that point repeatedly.

I DO think she needs to go (and I mean her POSITION, not her LIFE, before you say anything), there's reason to sugarcoat that point. Nor will I act as if all of these insults just come out of some void of misogyny and blind rage, as you'd like to pretend. If you want THAT version of reality, go post on Bioware Social Network.

Let the record show that when presented with footage of the goddamn game, the prosecution said "oh well THAT'S NOT EVIDENCE, TROLL VIDEO, TRY AGAIN."

Did you not read any of what I posted? I guess it doesn't matter. The point wasn't to show you that you were wrong, you have already demonstrated that you do not care you are wrong.
The point in attempting to talk with you was that anybody reading would know you are a liar who is unable to support his own claims.

This has been done. You apparently did not even know of this video untill it was shown to you, so using it as at best a post-hoc defence wouldn't cut it even if it wasn't blatantly trolling.

Should you ever decide that maybe you can defend you baseless and disgusting attacks we can continue this, untill then your trolling is not amusing.

Just to hammer the point home, she didn't write the romances that the video shows, or uses to support itself. You are using the existence of some character and romance written by another person as evidence for the notion that Hepler is all that you say. This is why the video is trolling and doesn't support what you say. This is why I can say you are unable to support yourself.

No I didn't know of that video, I was unfortunate enough to have played the game, I didn't need a video.

Look man, if you want to act like the kind of writing we see in modern Bioware games is great, that's your business, but try not to tank the RPG genre for the rest of us, kay? Some of us would like to play games as great as Planescape Torment again.

 

[Knight Templar]

No I didn't know of that video, I was unfortunate enough to have played the game, I didn't need a video.

If you do not need a video then why are you so adamantly against offering anything to support your claims? Why can't you even get what Hepler wrote correct?

Look man, if you want to act like the kind of writing we see in modern Bioware games is great, that's your business, but try not to tank the RPG genre for the rest of us, kay? Some of us would like to play games as great as Planescape Torment again.

I'm trying to get you to support what you said. You insist you can do it, that your words are more than empty insults and lies. Yet when pressed to offer something you give a video that you only just found and posses nothing to support your claims.
If it is so obvious, so clearly true then prove it. If you can't then you need to reassess your position, because it is clearly in error.

To make this simple for you, put up or shut up.

 

[FredTheUndead]

I explicitly DIDN'T say all of it was justified. I've denied that point repeatedly.

And failed miserably to follow through. Talk is cheap. Act consistent with what you say, and maybe I wouldn't have such a problem with you. Novel concept, no?

You've just been deciding the whole time that I'm on this side that wants her beaten in the streets. The way you act, it's a binary thing between either loving her and wanting her writing forever, or wanting her dead.

So no, I don't feel much need to justify the particulars of my opinions to you, because you will simply ignore what I say and claim I said something else. You, and to a lesser extent the templar, have spent this entire thread making revisionist statements. You don't WANT discussion, you just want to act all self righteous by saying "look at those kids, they don't want good video games, they just want to beat some woman. They're not disgruntled customers who are pissed over the waste of both years of dedicated following and hard earned cash, angry at having been tossed aside so that the company can support the same assholes and bitches that spent years scoffing at games, they're just entitled children!"

I have no reason to get into a breakdown of points with those who've already made up their mind. It's like arguing with a fundie, it's an exercise in futility.

So if what you really want IS an even, logical discussion, then no, YOU should be the one to put up or shut up. YOU made this into a personal matter by dismissing people in such a fashion just because they didn't like some game that you rather obviously did. But rather than attempting to engage on a logical level, you opted for insults and all hope of communication was lost.

So no, this is the end. No more responses, no more back and forths, I'm done with this discussion. Bottom line: I don't want Hepler dead or anything. I DO want her fired, because I feel that her products are sub-standard and her response to criticism unprofessional. Is she the real root of the problem? No, EA is, but she's certainly not ever helped and has made herself a symbol. That all said I think the Dragon Age team, ironically, will probably be the least likely to lose their jobs to EA budget cuts, considering TOR and ME3 have stirred up much greater shitstorms and destroyed EA stocks.

That's it really.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

I say the anger was justified, and just because she is a woman does not all of a sudden protect her from legitimate criticism. (No I am not defending the shit smeared mongoloids at Reddit, I'm defending the people who were legitimately criticizing her)

The main problem with what she said is this:

What she proposed effectively means no story would be told through the gameplay, and I'm sure everyone can agree the best game narratives use not just cutscenes but gameplay to tell their story. In fact using this method is probably the most effective thing a video game writer can do. Games like Half Life, Dark Souls and Assassins Creed are all great examples of games that use this method. (Not talking about fucking QTE)

This is what makes video games the unique media it is, you can weave the story with the gameplay creating a truly gripping experience that not other media can get even close to emulating. The best moments in most games I remember are things that do this, a perfect example is the needle bit in Dead Space 2.

Without this, video games stories would lose what makes them so special and different. This is why Hepler is should be out of a job, she sees writing in videos games the same as writing a book or movie.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I am actually going to stop responding to the other guy.

The discussion will be better for it.

 

[secretsantaone]

I am actually going to stop responding to the other guy.

The discussion will be better for it.

Well that's just like, your opinion man.

 

[General Karthos]

I actually do this about as closely as I can. Even though I'm perfectly capable of running through any BioWare game on Insanity difficulty, be it Dragon Age or Mass Effect, I almost invariably play with combat difficulty on casual, and just waltz through the combat as quickly as possible to get to the next story scene.

Not to say the combat isn't fun, but the only "difficult" part about the combat at higher levels is that it takes longer. And I'd rather have my 30 hours per game be spent more on story than combat.

Just my two cents. ($10,000,000 Canadian)

 

[Timmibal]

It also implies that games have no legitimacy, that the only significant part of a game is the part that imitates other media. For example, Dark Souls had essentially no story, but there were moving moments of triumph in that game that were related purely to the gameplay. Even powerful emotional moments, like having to kill a character who helped you through the toughest battles in the game, mean nothing without the attachments that the gameplay, and gameplay alone, create.

Quoted for Truth

Look, what is being talked about here has already been done... and better... much much better by better developers. I got games on the old Sega Saturn that did (all of this) quite well. For reference let us examine a modern game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a18M1dJdlU0&feature=relmfu

Getting away from technical mechanics, strategy, and tactics destroys by "most" definition the very "idea" of what "game" means.

Intentionally "cordoning off" the game play from the narrative exposition cripples some of the strongest elements of the strategic simulation that is available to the game developer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbUQiF45V_k&feature=fvwrel

Done right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBAgYtHHiUU

Done WRONG!

How old school can we go?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldmGKPGzxYw&feature=relmfu

(Pets his original pristine copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga signed by Team Andromeda). Pure Art! Which by the by, is compliant with the definition of art for if my copy is destroyed all remaining copies go up in value.

But keep on doin whatch'a doin... what do I know.

Quoted for Awesome

She spoke about skipping gameplay, combat to be precise for the purposes of getting access to other gameplay. You talked about skipping challenge. It doesn't make sense without equating challenge with combat. Hence the latter part.

That's exactly what she's doing though. When you listen to her interview, She refers to 'combat' in the context of 'time-consuming, challenging bits where I might die', and 'story' as 'bits where I get to watch cutscenes'

What she meant is irrelevant. She can mean in her head whatever she wants, that doesn't change what she said. Arguing against something that wasn't actually vocalised is pointless.

Intent and subtext are the most important parts of communication. Without them, 65% of all communication is miscommunication.

Also shouldn't we be discussing what Shamus had say about it, not whatever Hepler has going in her head?

No, I believe her viewpoint is relevant. It's an interesting idea coming from a person whose outlook is provably in the WRONG place for games. The source of information can be as important as the information itself.

 

[Olas]

Wouldn't Hepler mode just turn your game into a movie? If I want to watch a movie I'll just watch a movie. If I want to play a game I'll play a game. There's a reason both these mediums exist comfortably parallel to each other.
This isn't complicated, people, if you don't want interactivity go enjoy something that wasn't made specifically to be interactive. There's a reason they're called video GAMES.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

What she proposed effectively means no story would be told through the gameplay,

I don't buy that. I ask once again. Let's say I'm playing an action game. At one point, there is a vehicle section. I don't like vehicle sections. Why am I being unreasonable in saying I would prefer to skip that section and get back to the parts that I think are fun?

That not even close to what she suggested, she suggest there should be a button to bypass gameplay entirely to get back to the cutscenes.

Why would you bother putting story into the gameplay if you can just skip it?

In Mass Effect 3 for example, almost everything import is said in cutscenes, while in the previous titles they had much more in mission banter sprinkled here and there.

Besides if you want to play a specific section in a game you found fun, most games do have a mission select.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

I never visit Reddit, never heard of this. In retrospect however I played most of MGS4 in 'Hepler Mode', because I detested the gameplay and wanted to see what happened in the purported end of the series.

This would have very little effect on most people, it's optional which means include it if you want to, just don't waste resources on it. I'm still far more concerned with the flip side, games that make you twiddle your thumbs through the un-skippable story cutscenes every time.

This is more acceptable in RPGs, but games like Crysis 2 are based on gameplay, the forced lengthy narratives kill its replay value. Even Final Fantasy 7 would be better off if I could skip some of the longer story segments.