In Regards to Wild West

[runic knight]

The behaviour of the mods in this thread would fit well in the Wild West. It's actually disgusting.

I'm reading their comments and they haven't called anyone a fag or told them to drink bleach, so from the looks of it they're infinitely better than anything that happened in the ol' dead never coming back Wild West

That stuff never even happened in the WW...

You never even went in the WW, you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Like, come on!

I don't have to post in the WW to be able to read it.

It was a shit place for shit threads and the site is better without it.

It's no use arguing with these folks. They seem to feel that your opinion only matters if you reply to posts. Sort of like how they thought I was absent as a CM because I didn't join their circlejerk arguments about the moderators they enjoyed bashing despite being online daily to read them.

Yeah, heaven forbid the community expects the people in charge to actually engage with them and address long-ignored problems in a transparent manner rather than doing the exact same things as led to the decline and countless members of the community get sick of it and leave because of. What a foolish notion, that people would expect new leadership was capable of doing better than the failures of the past.

You do pick up on how the same problems commented on then are still problems commented on in this very thread, yes? Even have new people here trying to propose the same solutions as before still getting ignored. The problems never went away and were never addressed for what they are, and it seem every time people complain about it, it either resulted in ignoring at best, or people getting strikes or bans at worst. An antagonistic relationship between users and moderation/management that was feed and fostered.

Also, about "these folks", you may feel they think your opinion only matters if you reply to posts, but at least that is still better than ignoring both opinions and posts altogether. People can really only get away with the whole "invisible leader" thing when things are going well. When there is problems, and oh boy were and are there problems, then the lack of visibility is seen as either a sign of failure to address problems, a sign of condoning the problems themselves, or a sign of fear of the upset population. The community wanted leadership, not a new "boss".

Perhaps it would be better if you stop trying to join an antagonistic pissing contest with people upset they are not seeing improvements in how things are run, or seeing their concerns addressed or even acknowledged. Regardless how justified in being dismissive of them you may be, it makes you look very petty coming from a place of previous authority that was unsuccessful. Like a former plant manager coming onto the factory floor and screaming at the janitor for why the company is dying.

Now, would we be able to get back to the topic itself? Or the immediate consequence of the topic regarding the recent community backlash to the decision?

 

[Avnger]

Snip

what

Our illustrious """""Community Manager""""", folks.

I'm not sure how either of you missed his point unless you're purposely trying to do so. It's really, really simple.

You are responsible for what you post.[footnote]generalized[/footnote]

If you break the rules for "reasons", you still broke the rules and have no right to complain if you get whacked for it.

"They baited me" - doesn't matter
"They were passive-aggressive" - doesn't matter
"They broke the rules first" - doesn't matter
"They were mean" - doesn't matter
"They made me angry" - doesn't matter
"My dog ate my homework" - doesn't matter

People need to grow up and be accountable for what they post. If you are tempted to make a post that breaks the rules, here's three easy steps to avoid getting whacked:

1. Stand up
2. Step away from your computer
3. Go do literally anything else for 5 minutes

 

[n0e]

The behaviour of the mods in this thread would fit well in the Wild West. It's actually disgusting.

I'm reading their comments and they haven't called anyone a fag or told them to drink bleach, so from the looks of it they're infinitely better than anything that happened in the ol' dead never coming back Wild West

That stuff never even happened in the WW...

You never even went in the WW, you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Like, come on!

I don't have to post in the WW to be able to read it.

It was a shit place for shit threads and the site is better without it.

It's no use arguing with these folks. They seem to feel that your opinion only matters if you reply to posts. Sort of like how they thought I was absent as a CM because I didn't join their circlejerk arguments about the moderators they enjoyed bashing despite being online daily to read them.

Yeah, heaven forbid the community expects the people in charge to actually engage with them and address long-ignored problems in a transparent manner rather than doing the exact same things as led to the decline and countless members of the community get sick of it and leave because of. What a foolish notion, that people would expect new leadership was capable of doing better than the failures of the past.

You do pick up on how the same problems commented on then are still problems commented on in this very thread, yes? Even have new people here trying to propose the same solutions as before still getting ignored. The problems never went away and were never addressed for what they are, and it seem every time people complain about it, it either resulted in ignoring at best, or people getting strikes or bans at worst. An antagonistic relationship between users and moderation/management that was feed and fostered.

Also, about "these folks", you may feel they think your opinion only matters if you reply to posts, but at least that is still better than ignoring both opinions and posts altogether. People can really only get away with the whole "invisible leader" thing when things are going well. When there is problems, and oh boy were and are there problems, then the lack of visibility is seen as either a sign of failure to address problems, a sign of condoning the problems themselves, or a sign of fear of the upset population. The community wanted leadership, not a new "boss".

Perhaps it would be better if you stop trying to join an antagonistic pissing contest with people upset they are not seeing improvements in how things are run, or seeing their concerns addressed or even acknowledged. Regardless how justified in being dismissive of them you may be, it makes you look very petty coming from a place of previous authority that was unsuccessful. Like a former plant manager coming onto the factory floor and screaming at the janitor for why the company is dying.

Now, would we be able to get back to the topic itself? Or the immediate consequence of the topic regarding the recent community backlash to the decision?

I have two words for you and your friends who do nothing but ***** and moan like petulant children who were told "no" for the first time in their lives:

Quit Whining

 

[Arnoxthe1]

I have two words for you and your friends who do nothing but ***** and moan like petulant children who were told "no" for the first time in their lives:

Quit Whining

Why is it almost every time I see you post nowadays, you're whining about the userbase and how "petulant" they are? I get that some people have brought up some pretty spurious claims here, but I thought you'd be above those.

You're certainly not winning any points here, man.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Possible to account for that two year gap between warnings with my total, sir?

I saw your post. Your health bar is corrected and is now down to 1 bar (the latest Warning).

Edit: Eff it! You went two years without getting a Warning so I'm removing the recent whack. Take this as a verbal warning that even though you intended it to be in jest some Mods' tempers are on short leashes due to posters' rampant passive aggressiveness. Always best to err on the side of caution when dealing directly with Mods--especially in threads concerning moderation.

Congrats on clearing your Health Bar. You earned it. ^_^

I'm getting serious whiplash here.

Are you guys totalitarian gits with itchy finger triggers or not?

Also, thank you? Legitimately wasn't expecting that. Does this mean I can throw on a risque avatar too? Maybe some jiggly anime baps or bums?

Also also, I will make a point to avoid mentioning the post in question's sincerity and how I actually do deserve that one warning. I will not mention that at all. Not one bit.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I have two words for you and your friends who do nothing but ***** and moan like petulant children who were told "no" for the first time in their lives:

Quit Whining

Why is it almost every time I see you post nowadays, you're whining about the userbase and how "petulant" they are? I get that some people have brought some pretty spurious claims here, but I thought you'd be above those.

You're certainly not winning any points here, man.

Because he's projecting.

Quite hard.

 

[vallorn]

The behaviour of the mods in this thread would fit well in the Wild West. It's actually disgusting.

I'm reading their comments and they haven't called anyone a fag or told them to drink bleach, so from the looks of it they're infinitely better than anything that happened in the ol' dead never coming back Wild West

That stuff never even happened in the WW...

You never even went in the WW, you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Like, come on!

I don't have to post in the WW to be able to read it.

It was a shit place for shit threads and the site is better without it.

It's no use arguing with these folks. They seem to feel that your opinion only matters if you reply to posts. Sort of like how they thought I was absent as a CM because I didn't join their circlejerk arguments about the moderators they enjoyed bashing despite being online daily to read them.

Yeah, heaven forbid the community expects the people in charge to actually engage with them and address long-ignored problems in a transparent manner rather than doing the exact same things as led to the decline and countless members of the community get sick of it and leave because of. What a foolish notion, that people would expect new leadership was capable of doing better than the failures of the past.

You do pick up on how the same problems commented on then are still problems commented on in this very thread, yes? Even have new people here trying to propose the same solutions as before still getting ignored. The problems never went away and were never addressed for what they are, and it seem every time people complain about it, it either resulted in ignoring at best, or people getting strikes or bans at worst. An antagonistic relationship between users and moderation/management that was feed and fostered.

Also, about "these folks", you may feel they think your opinion only matters if you reply to posts, but at least that is still better than ignoring both opinions and posts altogether. People can really only get away with the whole "invisible leader" thing when things are going well. When there is problems, and oh boy were and are there problems, then the lack of visibility is seen as either a sign of failure to address problems, a sign of condoning the problems themselves, or a sign of fear of the upset population. The community wanted leadership, not a new "boss".

Perhaps it would be better if you stop trying to join an antagonistic pissing contest with people upset they are not seeing improvements in how things are run, or seeing their concerns addressed or even acknowledged. Regardless how justified in being dismissive of them you may be, it makes you look very petty coming from a place of previous authority that was unsuccessful. Like a former plant manager coming onto the factory floor and screaming at the janitor for why the company is dying.

Now, would we be able to get back to the topic itself? Or the immediate consequence of the topic regarding the recent community backlash to the decision?

I have two words for you and your friends who do nothing but ***** and moan like petulant children who were told "no" for the first time in their lives:

Quit Whining

Not even gonna snip this, just. Dude. yes there's some of that, there's always some of that on the internet, but there's problems so deep rooted on this site in the community, the philosophy of moderation, the way many mods interact with the users (or, don't) that just brushing everything aside as "whining" just continues those everlasting issues which have caused the site's population to become regarded as one of the most toxic and worst moderated places on the internet.

 

[n0e]

I have two words for you and your friends who do nothing but ***** and moan like petulant children who were told "no" for the first time in their lives:

Quit Whining

Why is it almost every time I see you post nowadays, you're whining about the userbase and how "petulant" they are? I get that some people have brought some pretty spurious claims here, but I thought you'd be above those.

You're certainly not winning any points here, man.

Because he's projecting.

Quite hard.

Really? Projecting from what? You _do_ know what that term means, right?

Like you, I choose to post when and where I wish to. My reason for posting should never be based on your demand of seeing me do so, like my demand for your response simply isn't there either. You either choose to or choose not to respond. Either way, your choice. So, why can't it be the same for me? Why must I comply with the demands of others when and where I talk to them about something? How dare I respond and defend the very people who volunteer their time and effort from a bunch of people who spend more time complaining about those who do their best to keep the place as drama free as possible than actually stopping themselves from creating it? If you'll notice, I'm responding to those who are trashing on the moderators for doing their job simply because they didn't agree with how it was done, despite the fact that they have no say in how it's managed.

It's a fascinating web of falsehoods you folks are creating and laughable if you think it's based in any form on reality.

[edit] It's been just over 1 year since I stopped working at Defy and managed community operations. I speak to you now as a normal member, as anyone else is here. My main issue and the reason why I seem to be focused on certain topics over others is that I know the volunteers here bust their butts to keep the place civil and as spam free as they are capable of doing with the resources they have. I defend them because I know what it's like and feel I'm in a position that I can speak my mind against those who always give them crap about doing their job in the face of dealing with people who expect respect while not giving any in return. It annoys me that certain members of the community seem to relish in this drama perpetuate it with topics such as this one.

 

[runic knight]

I have two words for you and your friends who do nothing but ***** and moan like petulant children who were told "no" for the first time in their lives:

Quit Whining

There is a problem that is poisoning the site and killing it. You were in charge and were expected to actually address such problems.

Your attitude is like a burger-flipper being expected to actually flip the burgers and getting upset at the customers who just want their food and are voicing their concerns.

Telling those people "no" doesn't solve the problems. And it is a sad irony when one of the solutions proposed was for you to tell the toxic passive-aggressive clique of users people keep complaining about "no" instead.

 

[n0e]

I have two words for you and your friends who do nothing but ***** and moan like petulant children who were told "no" for the first time in their lives:

Quit Whining

There is a problem that is poisoning the site and killing it. You were in charge and were expected to actually address such problems.

Your attitude is like a burger-flipper being expected to actually flip the burgers and getting upset at the customers who just want their food.

On the contrary, my attitude is like the guy behind the person screaming at the burger-flipper for doing their job, but not at the expectation of the customer causing a scene and telling them to stop being an ass to the employee. If you re-read my posts, maybe you'll see that pattern.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

Like you, I choose to post when and where I wish to. My reason for posting should never be based on your demand of seeing me do so, like my demand for your response simply isn't there either. You either choose to or choose not to respond. Either way, your choice. So, why can't it be the same for me? Why must I comply with the demands of others when and where I talk to them about something? How dare I respond and defend the very people who volunteer their time and effort from a bunch of people who spend more time complaining about those who do their best to keep the place as drama free as possible than actually stopping themselves from creating it? If you'll notice, I'm responding to those who are trashing on the moderators for doing their job simply because they didn't agree with how it was done, despite the fact that they have no say in how it's managed.

It's a fascinating web of falsehoods you folks are creating and laughable if you think it's based in any form on reality.

[edit] It's been just over 1 year since I stopped working at Defy and managed community operations. I speak to you now as a normal member, as anyone else is here. My main issue and the reason why I seem to be focused on certain topics over others is that I know the volunteers here bust their butts to keep the place civil and as spam free as they are capable of doing with the resources they have. I defend them because I know what it's like and feel I'm in a position that I can speak my mind against those who always give them crap about doing their job in the face of dealing with people who expect respect while not giving any in return. It annoys me that certain members of the community seem to relish in this drama perpetuate it with topics such as this one.

The problem I have isn't with the site team. In fact, I'm sure most, if not all of them, mean very well. The problem I've been yelling about is that some of the rules in the CoC are leftover garbage. The site team have their marching orders. It's the marching orders themselves though that are the problem.

I think what people are saying here is that they feel the site team are creating their own problems as they could change the rules and make it much easier on not just the users but themselves as well, but they actively choose not to. And then when we complain, we're seen as whiners. Problem-makers.

 

[runic knight]

I have two words for you and your friends who do nothing but ***** and moan like petulant children who were told "no" for the first time in their lives:

Quit Whining

There is a problem that is poisoning the site and killing it. You were in charge and were expected to actually address such problems.

Your attitude is like a burger-flipper being expected to actually flip the burgers and getting upset at the customers who just want their food.

On the contrary, my attitude is like the guy behind the person screaming at the burger-flipper for doing their job, but not at the expectation of the customer causing a scene and telling them to stop being an ass to the employee.

No, you were the flipper. You were the only one with the power to do changes, so in the analogy you were the only one able to make the burgers. And right now, you are in the middle of the restaurant right now, screaming at customers, calling them petulant, and generally acting like they should be grateful for you having done nothing to fix the problems and refusing to hear the complaints for what they are actually saying.

There are clear problems that need to be fixed. They were ignored and they continue. It serves no benefit to attack and blame the people trying to come the only person with authority and power to do anything, as though them complaining to the proper authority is the wrong thing for them to do.

What else do you expect them to do? Shut up and be silent as the site burns? Or leave, as many, many did and still do? Neither is a solution to those who want things to improve. And since others have no power to actually fix things, that leaves those in charge the only ones who can. Thus the targets of people's complaints by the design of the system itself.

Saying "no" is not fixing a problem, and it not being respected as an answer when it solves nothing is entirely predictable.

That ties us back to the thread itself, the closing the WW, and the community response. It was a unilaterial management decision unpopular with the community itself outside of a small collective of people who were part of the cause for it being shut down in the first place. It was giving into the antics of those who abuse the rules to make the problems worse to get what they wanted (the WW closed), while not addressing the problem itself being the people making things worse. It is feeding the problem and ignoring the source.

I get you don't like people telling you how to do your business, but when you fail or are failing, why would you think people will be quiet as their community is dying? They, unlike those actively hastening the destruction of the site by being the toxic passive-aggressive problem that has been ignored for years, don't want to see it die in such a state and thus voice concerns and criticism because of the failures to fix it.

 

[n0e]

But, there's a difference between complaining and what some are doing here. Do you honestly feel that berating the moderators will have any positive impact on any issue you may have? Do you think that it's acceptable to break the site code by spamming the living hell out of a forum as a way of demonstrating that it can, instead of merely sending a message saying "hey, I discovered this flaw, perhaps you should fix it."

You're complaining to the employee about policies created by the corporate administration. To be fair, the rules were originally going to be updated annually to reflect the constant change in how the community functions and converses, but that fell through when my contract expired.

Also, while you may view some of what is included in the CoC as garbage, you may want to understand that there are specific reasons why each of them was there to begin with. Those policies weren't added just "because" but instead they were added from previous experience (some very recently to the update) when dealing with individual members who enjoyed skirting the rules to post their bullshit. I won't name names, but I'm sure anyone who ever spoke to me knows who I refer to.

 

[n0e]

I have two words for you and your friends who do nothing but ***** and moan like petulant children who were told "no" for the first time in their lives:

Quit Whining

There is a problem that is poisoning the site and killing it. You were in charge and were expected to actually address such problems.

Your attitude is like a burger-flipper being expected to actually flip the burgers and getting upset at the customers who just want their food.

On the contrary, my attitude is like the guy behind the person screaming at the burger-flipper for doing their job, but not at the expectation of the customer causing a scene and telling them to stop being an ass to the employee.

No, you were the flipper. You were the only one with the power to do changes, so in the analogy you were the only one able to make the burgers. And right now, you are in the middle of the restaurant right now, screaming at customers, calling them petulant, and generally acting like they should be grateful for you having done nothing to fix the problems and refusing to hear the complaints for what they are actually saying.

There are clear problems that need to be fixed. They were ignored and they continue. It serves no benefit to attack and blame the people trying to come the only person with authority and power to do anything, as though them complaining to the proper authority is the wrong thing for them to do.

What else do you expect them to do? Shut up and be silent as the site burns? Or leave, as many, many did and still do? Neither is a solution to those who want things to improve. And since others have no power to actually fix things, that leaves those in charge the only ones who can. Thus the targets of people's complaints by the design of the system itself.

Saying "no" is not fixing a problem, and it not being respected as an answer when it solves nothing is entirely predictable.

That ties us back to the thread itself, the closing the WW, and the community response. It was a unilaterial management decision unpopular with the community itself outside of a small collective of people who were part of the cause for it being shut down in the first place. It was giving into the antics of those who abuse the rules to make the problems worse to get what they wanted (the WW closed), while not addressing the problem itself being the people making things worse. It is feeding the problem and ignoring the source.

I get you don't like people telling you how to do your business, but when you fail or are failing, why would you think people will be quiet as their community is dying? They, unlike those actively hastening the destruction of the site by being the toxic passive-aggressive problem that has been ignored for years, don't want to see it die in such a state and thus voice concerns and criticism because of the failures to fix it.

Yup, instead of stopping with your petty little argument for arguments sake, I'm at fault.

Who's the one projecting here? It sure isn't me. It's that person staring back at you in the mirror.

 

[Tanis]

It's the end of an era...and I'm kind of okay with it, but also kind of feel the need to hate it because - reasons.

 

[runic knight]

I have two words for you and your friends who do nothing but ***** and moan like petulant children who were told "no" for the first time in their lives:

Quit Whining

There is a problem that is poisoning the site and killing it. You were in charge and were expected to actually address such problems.

Your attitude is like a burger-flipper being expected to actually flip the burgers and getting upset at the customers who just want their food.

On the contrary, my attitude is like the guy behind the person screaming at the burger-flipper for doing their job, but not at the expectation of the customer causing a scene and telling them to stop being an ass to the employee.

No, you were the flipper. You were the only one with the power to do changes, so in the analogy you were the only one able to make the burgers. And right now, you are in the middle of the restaurant right now, screaming at customers, calling them petulant, and generally acting like they should be grateful for you having done nothing to fix the problems and refusing to hear the complaints for what they are actually saying.

There are clear problems that need to be fixed. They were ignored and they continue. It serves no benefit to attack and blame the people trying to come the only person with authority and power to do anything, as though them complaining to the proper authority is the wrong thing for them to do.

What else do you expect them to do? Shut up and be silent as the site burns? Or leave, as many, many did and still do? Neither is a solution to those who want things to improve. And since others have no power to actually fix things, that leaves those in charge the only ones who can. Thus the targets of people's complaints by the design of the system itself.

Saying "no" is not fixing a problem, and it not being respected as an answer when it solves nothing is entirely predictable.

That ties us back to the thread itself, the closing the WW, and the community response. It was a unilaterial management decision unpopular with the community itself outside of a small collective of people who were part of the cause for it being shut down in the first place. It was giving into the antics of those who abuse the rules to make the problems worse to get what they wanted (the WW closed), while not addressing the problem itself being the people making things worse. It is feeding the problem and ignoring the source.

I get you don't like people telling you how to do your business, but when you fail or are failing, why would you think people will be quiet as their community is dying? They, unlike those actively hastening the destruction of the site by being the toxic passive-aggressive problem that has been ignored for years, don't want to see it die in such a state and thus voice concerns and criticism because of the failures to fix it.

Yup, instead of stopping with your petty little argument for arguments sake, I'm at fault.

Who's the one projecting here? It sure isn't me. It's that person staring back at you in the mirror.

You are the one with the power to affect the site. I am just a user that has to adhere to the rules of the site. People learning from, and evolving with, the way the rules are flawed is the fault of the people who can actually change them.

You are complaining about the people that adapted to the system you allowed and perpetuated, for adapting to it in order to stick around and remain part of the community and not get banned.

I've described this phenomenon before. When the rules reward one style of posting while punishing another, the userbase evolves. Those that adapt to the rewarded style stick around, those that do not die off, til there is only the rewarded style left.

If you reward the passive-aggressiveness, the sniping, the political clique, the biases in who gets hit for what, then you foster that as the type of user the site favors. And that is ENTIRELY on the people in charge to pay attention to and address, not the users who have to deal with that and either adapt, leave, or get banned trying to fight it.

The site has a problem that the userbase can not fix themselves. When it doesn't get fixed, the userbase has to try to work around the issues that problem causes. Not doing your job properly when in management of anything directly causes the problems that arise out of the atmosphere created by your lack of doing said job. This is true for any job, be it managing kids flipping burgers, or managing people on a forum. You can't blame the entirety of the people trying to deal with a bad situation for the bad situation, when you and not them hold the power to change it.

 

[vallorn]

But, there's a difference between complaining and what some are doing here. Do you honestly feel that berating the moderators will have any positive impact on any issue you may have? Do you think that it's acceptable to break the site code by spamming the living hell out of a forum as a way of demonstrating that it can, instead of merely sending a message saying "hey, I discovered this flaw, perhaps you should fix it."

Nobody liked Wynn even the shitposters, don't act like he represents everyone.

You're complaining to the employee about policies created by the corporate administration. To be fair, the rules were originally going to be updated annually to reflect the constant change in how the community functions and converses, but that fell through when my contract expired.

Well that's actually good to know, thanks for sharing that.

Also, while you may view some of what is included in the CoC as garbage, you may want to understand that there are specific reasons why each of them was there to begin with. Those policies weren't added just "because" but instead they were added from previous experience (some very recently to the update) when dealing with individual members who enjoyed skirting the rules to post their bullshit. I won't name names, but I'm sure anyone who ever spoke to me knows who I refer to.

We all know, the whole GG mess on these forums was essentially two camps of people doing that at one another, (myself included to some degree though I didn't see it that way at the time). However, it's obvious that, the problems are deeper, it's a community wide canker at this point, and when everyone is a rules lawyer, no matter now many new rules go into the CoC, people will find loopholes, minutiae, and ways of going "I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you.... ad infinitum" so they can keep up the chlorine and sulphur filled atmosphere of the forums without getting a bonk on the head.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

You are responsible for what you post.

If you break the rules for "reasons", you still broke the rules and have no right to complain if you get whacked for it.

Avnger gets it, be more like Avnger.

 

[runic knight]

You are responsible for what you post.

If you break the rules for "reasons", you still broke the rules and have no right to complain if you get whacked for it.

Avnger gets it, be more like Avnger.

And this mentality is what helps foster the rules lawyering, the passive-aggressiveness, the banjumpers blight the site had to deal with, and other such issues. "The rules are the rules" is a lovely sentiment when they are clear, fairly enforced, and stop negative behavior itself. If even one of those aspects are flawed, problems occur. Lack of clarity leads to confusion and complaints of "I did the same as this guy because he wasn't punished and I thought it was ok". Any perceived bias, true or not, makes people bitter and resentful of the favoratism. And if they allow some negative behavior, such as trolling people with nothing but dismissive snark or passive-aggressive sniping, then those unhappy with being punished for reacting to it will simply learn from the way the management wants them to behave and adopt the "condoned" behaviors to respond to it with.

People aren't stupid. They learn from the culture they are part of, they see what is acceptable and what is not, they learn who is valued and why, they pick up on what behavior is being encouraged and condoned.

Simply saying people have to follow the rules, but ignoring the concerns and criticisms of them, be it lack of clarity, concerns about enforcement, or just holes within them, well, it wont work well. And it clearly hasn't around here.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Really? Projecting from what? You _do_ know what that term means, right?

Like you, I choose to post when and where I wish to. My reason for posting should never be based on your demand of seeing me do so, like my demand for your response simply isn't there either. You either choose to or choose not to respond. Either way, your choice. So, why can't it be the same for me? Why must I comply with the demands of others when and where I talk to them about something? How dare I respond and defend the very people who volunteer their time and effort from a bunch of people who spend more time complaining about those who do their best to keep the place as drama free as possible than actually stopping themselves from creating it? If you'll notice, I'm responding to those who are trashing on the moderators for doing their job simply because they didn't agree with how it was done, despite the fact that they have no say in how it's managed.

It's a fascinating web of falsehoods you folks are creating and laughable if you think it's based in any form on reality.

Yes. I do know what the term means, but I will refrain from extrapolating to be less of an asshole than I might want to be.

I don't care whether you post or not. Not in the slightest. I do, however, care ever so slightly about the behavior and actions of my de facto "rulers" around here.

For the record though, I do respect the sheer time investment it takes for someone to hold a moderator position, let alone on a site that isn't the equivalent of a rudderless ghost ship playing host to nothing but the most stubborn of rats. I don't personally have the time, nor the clout around here to get into that position for myself either, so I've got nothing but criticism, constructive or otherwise, to level their way.

But they are, I assume, adults who can defend or explain themselves if need be.

If you'll notice, I'm responding to those who are trashing on the moderators for doing their job simply because they didn't agree with how it was done, despite the fact that they have no say in how it's managed.

Care to explain that one?

Are you referring to the mods as not having a say in how its managed or the people complaining?

If the former: What? Then who made that decision? As it was explained, this outcome was a group effort on their part, was it not?

If the latter: That's literally all they can do. They don't have the power to actually alter the decision, so complaining is kind of the last and only option available to them. You're literally whinging at people for being impotent.

Or, is this more of a vague sentiment about moderation in general and not pertaining to the WW closure?

Also, this post was going to be a little more acidic before I saw this bit -

[edit] It's been just over 1 year since I stopped working at Defy and managed community operations. I speak to you now as a normal member, as anyone else is here. My main issue and the reason why I seem to be focused on certain topics over others is that I know the volunteers here bust their butts to keep the place civil and as spam free as they are capable of doing with the resources they have. I defend them because I know what it's like and feel I'm in a position that I can speak my mind against those who always give them crap about doing their job in the face of dealing with people who expect respect while not giving any in return. It annoys me that certain members of the community seem to relish in this drama perpetuate it with topics such as this one.

I get that.

You being aggressive and belittling about it doesn't really help matters though, especially when your status as a former CM effectively gives you carte blanche to say whatever you want, whereas the "petulant children" are still subject to mod wrath for similar behavior.

But I get it.