In Regards to Wild West

[CM156_v1legacy]

So that's it then, huh? One mean name and off with their heads?

Only if it's Zontar

the mods put too much work into burying his past infractions and bringing him back for people to make a callout thread against him

Racism? Fine. Sexism? Just fine. Transphobia? Of course it's fine. Homophobia? Oh you know it is already fine. Calling someone a mean name? Hey now, slow down there bud.

Remember the bleach drinking phase WW and R&P went through?

nothing like telling people to kill themselves in meme format

Real talk: As someone who has struggled with suicide (and lost a family member to it) it saddens me that anyone would encourage another to end their life, even in jest.
The letters "KYS" should stand for "Kiss your spouse" or "knit your sweater" not something harsher.

 

[Drathnoxis]

"Just because you can doesn't mean you should" isn't a compelling argument in this case.
Defy holds the keys, they could turn this place off tomorrow, that's their choice and whether or not they should is a matter up for debate that involves details us regular users don't have access to. The mods moderate the forums, stuff like this is literally their entire bloody job, and just because the users said "We want this!" doesn't mean the moderation team has to abide by it to infinity and beyond. There are limits to things, and whether you like it or not a limit has been reached, and this limit is not and will not be dictated by the common user. This forum is not a democracy. That the moderation team allowed users to give their input months ago was a courtesy to us.

The moderators moderate the forums, according to the pre-existing rules. That job does not entail creating new rules or removing existing subforums at will. Why should the moderation team have full autonomy over the direction of the site? They have no legitimate claim to the power they currently wield. They aren't the owners of the site, nor have they been employed by the owners to act as directors. They are simply ascended users. People, like you or me, who were semi arbitrarily chosen to act as enforcers of pre-determined rules. They currently have no oversight, little transparency, and are the sole distributors of moderation power. Everybody here has been here for years, this is as much our home is it is theirs. Just because someone was handed the keys to the bus doesn't mean they get to drive it wherever they want. What gives them the right to decide the future of the site on their own?

 

[Drathnoxis]

So that's it then, huh? One mean name and off with their heads?

Only if it's Zontar

the mods put too much work into burying his past infractions and bringing him back for people to make a callout thread against him

Racism? Fine. Sexism? Just fine. Transphobia? Of course it's fine. Homophobia? Oh you know it is already fine. Calling someone a mean name? Hey now, slow down there bud.

Remember the bleach drinking phase WW and R&P went through?

nothing like telling people to kill themselves in meme format

Real talk: As someone who has struggled with suicide (and lost a family member to it) it saddens me that anyone would encourage another to end their life, even in jest.
The letters "KYS" should stand for "Kiss your spouse" or "knit your sweater" not something harsher.

Except the bleach meme was never about telling other people to kill themselves as it was used here in the WW. The true interpretation is kind of hard to say but I think it was about 80% nonsense and 20% rolling your eyes while holding your fingers up to your temples and going "pow".

As a personal aside, as the moderator who most closely monitors R&P, I've witnessed several threads that had to be locked and infractions handed out because of animosity that intensified in the WW and then spilled over to the rest of the boards. Sure, people might be passive aggressive and pissy against each other anyway, but WW took it from that to outright hostility and that hostility wasn't contained to WW alone.

Most of the hostility that was in the WW originated in R&P and spilled into the West. Politics is the root of all evil.

What do you actually think Free Speech means? I'm not just talking to you Drath. It doesn't create conversation. It doesn't cause this Utpoian feel good sanctuary people keep making it out as. As I said when we had a WW vote a while ago, none of it has changed a single person mind. In fact, it's probably calcified it. Calling out people for their bad behaviour doesn't fix the behaviour. It usually makes it worse. Also, where was this outcry when Saleune gets slammed or Zontar previously? They've been bullied for a long time, and I'd say even worse than this.

I'm usually a Free Speecher but when it just leads to insult, I find it pointless.

I didn't ever mention free speech, so I'm not sure why you are asking me this. I didn't like the callout threads against or by Saelune either. But that wasn't all the WW was, and it wasn't like that at the start. I think it was valuable to have a space where people could talk without threads being locked constantly when they reach some arbitrary limit of "gone too far." I still enjoyed having a place to talk without being constrained by interpretations of vague rules, even if a few select people abused that freedom.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

Where you aware of the many callout threads, many being repeated to particular users? I think that's enough on its own. Making an entire thread dedicated to rally against someone is absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable in my opinion.

How about the many comments made by some that absolutely despised certain people, and made it their mission to counter everything ever said by said user, or indeed be the ones to host the callout threads themselves? I'm not gonna name names here in the open, I refuse to do a callout like that. But believe me, it was absolutely there.

Just because you didn't see it, it doesn't mean it's not there or never happened. It's like saying you never get robbed, so why are other people complaining about being robbed? Cause clearly there's no robbery ever because you alone never saw or experienced it, right? That's fucking moon logic right there

I'm not saying there weren't callout threads, but I didn't think anyone, including the OP themselves really took them seriously.

 

[BreakfastMan]

So that's it then, huh? One mean name and off with their heads?

Only if it's Zontar

the mods put too much work into burying his past infractions and bringing him back for people to make a callout thread against him

Racism? Fine. Sexism? Just fine. Transphobia? Of course it's fine. Homophobia? Oh you know it is already fine. Calling someone a mean name? Hey now, slow down there bud.

Remember the bleach drinking phase WW and R&P went through?

nothing like telling people to kill themselves in meme format

Real talk: As someone who has struggled with suicide (and lost a family member to it) it saddens me that anyone would encourage another to end their life, even in jest.
The letters "KYS" should stand for "Kiss your spouse" or "knit your sweater" not something harsher.

Same boat over here, honestly. Suicide is just endlessly horrific.

 

[Dr. Thrax]

The moderators moderate the forums, according to the pre-existing rules. That job does not entail creating new rules or removing existing subforums at will.

Not the moderators themselves, but I'd say something like that falls within the boundaries of the duties of the Community Manager, using input from the moderators.

Why should the moderation team have full autonomy over the direction of the site?

Well, they don't really have "full autonomy" over the direction of the site, but at this point there is no higher power that's getting involved aside from the mods and CM.

They have no legitimate claim to the power they currently wield. They aren't the owners of the site, nor have they been employed by the owners to act as directors. They are simply ascended users. People, like you or me, who were semi arbitrarily chosen to act as enforcers of pre-determined rules.

That they were approached to be a moderator and accepted is claim enough, at the point we're at now. All these mods and even the Community Manager are volunteers trying to keep this sinking ship from sinking faster. Regardless, they've been given the authority to manage the community, which is about as easy as herding cats with this site.

They currently have no oversight, little transparency, and are the sole distributors of moderation power.

Yet that's not the fault of the moderation team. You can't blame the mods for no oversight when the overseeing authority isn't overseeing. And I don't get all this hubbub about "transparency", what forum has had anything resembling transparency behind it in regards to its moderation? Most discussions on stuff like this takes place in Modspace and the rest of the community then gets informed of their decisions. Sometimes they'll ask for community input on stuff, but other times they'll make decisions without community input.

Everybody here has been here for years, this is as much our home is it is theirs. Just because someone was handed the keys to the bus doesn't mean they get to drive it wherever they want.

Well, if you don't like where they're driving, then you're free to get off the bus at any time.

What gives them the right to decide the future of the site on their own?

The fact that there's literally nobody else running this place. Someone is still keeping the lights on, but doesn't see fit to communicate with the people tasked with keeping the forums in line. In lieu of that, it's up to people like the Community Manager to look at and make decisions on what should be done.

 

[RaikuFA]

StatusNil getting a warning for stating his opinion in a civil manner demonstrates just what is wrong with the site and it's moderation.

You know this post my be the proof that WW was bad. 1. You didn't insult anyone 2. You actual made an argument. Thanks for adding something to the conversation.
As to your argument, I honestly got through half StatusNil's post before shutting it down. I have to read more to make an appropriate comment. You though, in this post, imply that the mods should change to suit your particular needs. I'm going to have to ask for evidence for change over everyone else.

The problem some have with it though is if it were some other members saying the exact same thing there'd be no consequences for them.

I dont know what you specifically mean by 'it'. My assumption was mods or WW or StatusNil's knock. I'm going to go with mods and that they have no consequences. So on that assumption...
Mods would change things for the community. When people complain about mods, there is some commonality but there are some differences. Well, at least that's what I've noticed. There isn't a big rallying point other than they generally favour left leaning members (personally I dont believe that.) If there was more commonality, there would be more change.

A long time ago, I realised people werent going to do what I want them to do. Governments, corporations, staff memebers (and now my kids.) While I try to hard to change people, I realise that I probably won't make that change. I can change my self easier than I can change another person. That's how I see the mods. They arent going to do whatever I want. I accept that and I move on. (And I think spending your time pointing out how bad mods are will just antagonise them and make them less amenable. That defeats your own arguement.) Compare this to how people treat Trump. They lambast him and that doesnt change his behaviour. In fact, it makes him double down.

But, hey. Maybe I'm just dreaming

I was talking about how certain members can skirt the rules while others can't. It's been a problem for years on this site. We have certain members being passive aggressive and getting away with it. Just a few weeks ago someone was trying to bait me into insulting them over the fact that I had a learning disability. They were trying to antagonize me and I wasn't biting. I think people who try and pull shit like that should get some form of punishment but they don't.

 

[Marik2]

Drathnoxis, you're starting to sound like Epyc Wynn.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Not the moderators themselves, but I'd say something like that falls within the boundaries of the duties of the Community Manager, using input from the moderators.

There is no CM. The CM is just a mod with a different color name.

That they were approached to be a moderator and accepted is claim enough, at the point we're at now. All these mods and even the Community Manager are volunteers trying to keep this sinking ship from sinking faster. Regardless, they've been given the authority to manage the community, which is about as easy as herding cats with this site.

So those in power should be in power for the reason that they are in power, and because they are in power they automatically make the right decisions. Yeah, sure.

Yet that's not the fault of the moderation team. You can't blame the mods for no oversight when the overseeing authority isn't overseeing. And I don't get all this hubbub about "transparency", what forum has had anything resembling transparency behind it in regards to its moderation? Most discussions on stuff like this takes place in Modspace and the rest of the community then gets informed of their decisions. Sometimes they'll ask for community input on stuff, but other times they'll make decisions without community input.

Since there is no oversight, and they also chose who becomes part of their ranks, then they need to be transparent with the community when making big decisions and respect the wishes of the community. Evidently though, they are far too concerned with showing solidarity and demonstrating that the mods decisions are final, whatever they may be, for that.

Well, if you don't like where they're driving, then you're free to get off the bus at any time.

Many of us were on this bus before they were in the driver's seat, heck we were sitting here before they even got on. Now suddenly they get to decide where we go even though I still have tickets from the bus company? That's just not right.

 

[Dr. Thrax]

-Snorp-
Many of us were on this bus before they were in the driver's seat, heck we were sitting here before they even got on. Now suddenly they get to decide where we go even though I still have tickets from the bus company? That's just not right.

God you really are starting to sound like Wynn.
If you don't like it, then you know where the door is.

Unless you can start getting Defy to actually manage this damn site again, this is all we've got.

 

[Trunkage]

StatusNil getting a warning for stating his opinion in a civil manner demonstrates just what is wrong with the site and it's moderation.

You know this post my be the proof that WW was bad. 1. You didn't insult anyone 2. You actual made an argument. Thanks for adding something to the conversation.
As to your argument, I honestly got through half StatusNil's post before shutting it down. I have to read more to make an appropriate comment. You though, in this post, imply that the mods should change to suit your particular needs. I'm going to have to ask for evidence for change over everyone else.

The problem some have with it though is if it were some other members saying the exact same thing there'd be no consequences for them.

I dont know what you specifically mean by 'it'. My assumption was mods or WW or StatusNil's knock. I'm going to go with mods and that they have no consequences. So on that assumption...
Mods would change things for the community. When people complain about mods, there is some commonality but there are some differences. Well, at least that's what I've noticed. There isn't a big rallying point other than they generally favour left leaning members (personally I dont believe that.) If there was more commonality, there would be more change.

A long time ago, I realised people werent going to do what I want them to do. Governments, corporations, staff memebers (and now my kids.) While I try to hard to change people, I realise that I probably won't make that change. I can change my self easier than I can change another person. That's how I see the mods. They arent going to do whatever I want. I accept that and I move on. (And I think spending your time pointing out how bad mods are will just antagonise them and make them less amenable. That defeats your own arguement.) Compare this to how people treat Trump. They lambast him and that doesnt change his behaviour. In fact, it makes him double down.

But, hey. Maybe I'm just dreaming

I was talking about how certain members can skirt the rules while others can't. It's been a problem for years on this site. We have certain members being passive aggressive and getting away with it. Just a few weeks ago someone was trying to bait me into insulting them over the fact that I had a learning disability. They were trying to antagonize me and I wasn't biting. I think people who try and pull shit like that should get some form of punishment but they don't.

As opposed to being called a cuck for having certain ideologies? Which happen to me a couple of week ago? I'd prefer to be baited than actually insulted. This is not meant to take away from the hurt you are feeling. You feel how you feel. I personally would be glad if that's all I had to ignore, but that comes from my circumstance.

snip.

perhaps there's a 3. You didn't have an ideology that was deemed 'offensive' enough to 'require' an insult. You know, an offensive comment like trans people should have some say in their identity. There were some people who would insult you till you left the conversation in WW. You know, like bullying.

You know what, I didn't call for the end then. I only called for it after Zontar thing. If some on the Left is going to act like some on the Right, it's time to pull up stumps.

It doesn't mean you personally did anything. Whether your Left or Right. It means that it wasn't doing its function. IMO, I'd agree with that

 

[Arnoxthe1]

perhaps there's a 3. You didn't have an ideology that was deemed 'offensive' enough to 'require' an insult. You know, an offensive comment like trans people should have some say in their identity. There were some people who would insult you till you left the conversation in WW. You know, like bullying.

You know what, I didn't call for the end then. I only called for it after Zontar thing. If some on the Left is going to act like some on the Right, it's time to pull up stumps.

It doesn't mean you personally did anything. Whether your Left or Right. It means that it wasn't doing its function. IMO, I'd agree with that

Well, I'm a self-proclaimed furry and I love femboys and trans people. I'm pretty sure I've been open about all that for a long while now. I even posted my fursona in one thread. But I guessed nobody cared enough to harass me... ? I even got a Black Lagoon avatar here. I mean, c'mon people. If anyone's gonna get "harassed", it should be me.

Maybe I should post my fursona again more publicly so I can really make myself a nice target for all these supposed nazis and right-winged nutjobs, am I right?

 

[Zontar]

Man, I go away for two days and come back to find the WW is locked and it's justification was the... 18th? I think it was the 18th. I'll go with 18th. The justification was the 8th callout thread against me.

I didn't even dislike those threads, I thought they where funny. Some where genuinlly funny because they where trying (we all know the ones), while others where funny in the "man people made a thread just to call me that?" kind of way.

I want to make it clear I liked the WW even with its faults, do not approve of its closure, and dispise the fact my name is probably perminatly associated with its closure.

 

[Marik2]

Tomorrow I will go to the library to write my opinion on this. I have a lot of suggestions and concerns about all of this.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

Tomorrow I will go to the library to write my opinion on this. I have a lot of suggestions and concerns about all of this.

I wouldn't waste your time. The site team is adamant about this.

 

[Marik2]

Tomorrow I will go to the library to write my opinion on this. I have a lot of suggestions and concerns about all of this.

I wouldn't waste your time. The site team is adamant about this.

True, but I still want to be thorough with my opinion.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

"Just because you can doesn't mean you should" isn't a compelling argument in this case.
Defy holds the keys, they could turn this place off tomorrow, that's their choice and whether or not they should is a matter up for debate that involves details us regular users don't have access to. The mods moderate the forums, stuff like this is literally their entire bloody job, and just because the users said "We want this!" doesn't mean the moderation team has to abide by it to infinity and beyond. There are limits to things, and whether you like it or not a limit has been reached, and this limit is not and will not be dictated by the common user. This forum is not a democracy. That the moderation team allowed users to give their input months ago was a courtesy to us.

The moderators moderate the forums, according to the pre-existing rules. That job does not entail creating new rules or removing existing subforums at will. Why should the moderation team have full autonomy over the direction of the site? They have no legitimate claim to the power they currently wield. They aren't the owners of the site, nor have they been employed by the owners to act as directors. They are simply ascended users. People, like you or me, who were semi arbitrarily chosen to act as enforcers of pre-determined rules. They currently have no oversight, little transparency, and are the sole distributors of moderation power. Everybody here has been here for years, this is as much our home is it is theirs. Just because someone was handed the keys to the bus doesn't mean they get to drive it wherever they want. What gives them the right to decide the future of the site on their own?

I'm pretty sure the rules have been amended since Defy all but abandoned the site. In any event the mods are the only ones left who can do anything. Why don't you volunteer to join the moderation team? That way you'll have a say in what goes on around here. I'd do it, but I don't want to deal with the stress.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Man, I go away for two days and come back to find the WW is locked and it's justification was the... 18th? I think it was the 18th. I'll go with 18th. The justification was the 8th callout thread against me.

I didn't even dislike those threads, I thought they where funny. Some where genuinlly funny because they where trying (we all know the ones), while others where funny in the "man people made a thread just to call me that?" kind of way.

I want to make it clear I liked the WW even with its faults, do not approve of its closure, and dispise the fact my name is probably perminatly associated with its closure.

I wouldn't stress too much about it. The wild west was doomed from the start.

 

[n0e]

Hello all.

As some of you may have noticed, the Wild West sub-forum is no longer accessible. This is not a glitch, nothing Defy did, but something that we, as a moderation team, have decided to do, and this was something that was not done lightly nor without group consideration and discussion.

Yes, there was a thread a while back to ask the community their thoughts and feelings about what to be done about WW. It was decided to let it be, and let users post how they wish since it was conveyed to us that users were having fun in there and it was an outlet they really appreciated.

However, due to recent threads that range from borderline harassment to outright bullying, we have decided to close it off. What was originally a sub-forum for topic-less threads, whimsy fun, and random shenanigans has now turned vitriolic and unacceptable. It has now turned into a place that some users feel that they can now get away with this behavior and consequences will not happen due to the lawlessness of the sub-forum.

Not anymore, nor will it come back.

Again, this was a decision that wasn't made lightly nor without serious input from the whole moderation team. That being said, if there are threads in WW that should be moved to other forums so that they can still be continued posting in, please do let either myself, or another member of the moderation team know and we will be more than happy to do so.

Cheers.

This is great news! I wish I was able to do it during my tenure.

*glares at Defy management*

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

But now where will I go to watch blatantly transphobic racists pretend to be Nazis for fun?