Inside the Sick Mind of a School Shooter Mod

[Joshic Shin]

super snip

Because this doesn't come under hate speech. It doesn't come under any sort of scrutiny other than the fact it might offend people and it doesn't serve an artistic purpose.

That is no reason for us to tell him he shouldn't make it. I understand he wants to make it to shock and make people go "oh my god, why would someone do that" but people using modern art can make entire /careers/ off the exact same thing.

I'm all for games are art, so I support his right to make it, until he breaks any laws, or pushes it in the face of people who don't want to see it. Simple as that really.

And its fine. I enjoy a good debate and you're actually making me think. That's quite rare, and its actually making my night rather fun. Thank you

The problem is that it could be qualified as a snuff film type form of entertainment. Allow me to explain. Every wonder why you don't see real dead bodies on TV, Movies, or newspapers? There was a time when that happened, but now that is illegal. It's called snuff films or yellow journalism. It is the basest way to make a profit, and is considered obscene and illegal now. The problem with games like School Shooter is that they attempt to be these obscene games for the same reason yellow journalists photographed murder scenes, to merely cash in on a tragedy.

This is not art. He even said it isn't, he doesn't think games are an art form. Read that interview again, he is making this game to prove that they aren't. It isn't to make some grander point, it is really just so you murder children. That is so close to being obscene in an illegal way that it probably already passed it.

Let's make an example here though, to help illustrate why a game like this shouldn't be made. I can tell you passionately wish to defend the right to free speech, and that is wonderful, but free speech needs limits. As I have pointed out before there are times where one's free speech isn't really so free. So, what if I was a major radio talk show host and I said on air, "I really hope someone took out this president/party leader/mayor/etc. I would really be thankful that that guy would be gone." Now, what if the next day that leader was killed by one of my listeners? Should I really be able to say I played no role in this incident?

I understand that the argument that this game could lead to more school shootings is a slippery slope fallacy, but something like this should not be made on simple moral, societal, or just plain decency grounds. This is not the Russian airport scene in MW2 that was part of a grander story. This isn't the Save or Harvest storyline in Bioshock with the little sisters. It isn't even like killing the harmless civilians in GTA.

This is just baseless and useless. The difference between this game and the others was that you had a choice in what you were doing. This game, the only way to win is to kill. You are rewarded for killing innocent children and lose if you do not. That is no longer art, that is not a metaphor, it is merely trying to make sociopathy fun. That is wrong.

 

[Therumancer]

All I can say here is "meh".

In the end things like this simply come down to opinion. I'm far less disturbed by this than things like the playable Taliban faction (no matter what they are called), games about ethnic cleansing, and games that provide propaganda for drug cartels involved in current, ongoing battles with authorities. It has a lot to do with scale, and also the overall situation. Honestly I think people have been treating the whole subject of school shootings with kid gloves, and I think the irreverant attitude here is a positive step towards turning the sacred cow into a tasty burger and getting down to the business of actually dealing with the problem. The people who are tip toeing around this issue really need to see it opened up and dragged through the mud. It's your typical "elephant in the room" and has been for a long time now.

To some extent I think people need to ask the question of WHY things like this are happening, and why someone would find this kind of thing appealing, and then address those issues as uncomfortable and society changing as it might be.

I think this mod is getting so much outrage because we all know tons of people are going to find it appealing. Heck, a lot of those protesting are probably going to download it and play the heck out of it. What's more anyone who claims they have never thought about going to town in their school growing up is a bloody liar, especially among the nerd set. It's been a LONG standing point about horror movies that they represent a morality play and social commentary of a sort, where you see a lot of very stereotypical (and yet painfully realistic) characters facing what amounts to justice at the hand of some monster or seriel killer. In the end it's the worthy ones or the quintessential "final girl" who gets away to tell the tale, perhaps taking out the killer in the process.

Horror movies have been out there for decades, and despite being attacked, it's been proven that they have little or no relation to real events or motivating normal people to go on killing rampages or anything. The big differance is that Hollywood spent a lot of time and money fighting against "the establishment" for this realization and the latitude they have.

The thing to consider is that the reason why we see people acting out in real schools this way is due to the ways society has changed, with the torment "nerds" and "outcasts" are facing becoming increasingly extreme, and also a sort of institution that is ignored by the authorities who should be acting to prevent it. Especially since those authorities increasingly have vested interests in maintaining the status quo, nobody is going to expel the football team in a high school since that team probably brings in money for the school
in the form of donations, scholorships, and attention. If the football team wants to torment some nerds, the school administration is going to let it happen. Truthfully, I'm surprised we made it as long as we did before something like "Columbine" made it onto the national stage, people keep missing the point and doing stupid things like trying to ban violence, and going after kids drawing stick figures doing violent things. Games like this are a decent wake up call to society.

Truthfully though if I was going to make a game in this vein, it would be inspired by my love of horror movies. Rather than a school shooting I'd probably take a more stealth-based, seriel killer type approach to this kind of thing inspired by "Teen Screams" horror movies. I'd probably even go so far as to take an approach sort of combining "Postal" and "Bioware RPGS" to the mix, by showing school life through the eyes of an outsider, having some abuse heaped on the main character, and get into the reasons why your killer is going on this rampage.

Of course it can also be said, that I'd imagine just about anyone loading up this game/mod is going to be able to associate with the premise, and will have reasons dancing through their minds as to why it's happening.


I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me, but I guess what I'm getting at is that I think you can't complain about this with a straight face, unless you also want to say we should be banning movies like "Scream", "Carrie", "Prom Night", "I Know What You Did Last Summer", and countless others which have retreaded the same territory. Indeed in most of those movies, the killer actually DOES have some motivation other than "he's just a nut".

Now granted, with the current case going up before "The Supreme Court" the timing could be better, but even so I think this is no big deal, and anyone who is really outraged about this while having been unconcerned about things like playable Taliban or excuse me "opposing force" factions in FPS killing US troops in a war going on now, or the whole "Call Of Juarez: The Cartels" situation might want to seriously reconsider their priorities, especially considering how ingrained high school massacres are in the media, and have been long before Columbine.

I will however give the makers of this mod some kudos, I think they have unintentionally created the most successful horror game in recent memory. Horror is supposed to get a reaction out of people, and I think this has freaked out more people than the last few big budget "horror games" already (or at least on The Escapist). Big game companies should probably take note of this next time they want to make a horror game. A good "blood in the hallways" teen-screams slaughterfest will probably push more buttons right now than all of the cereberal "psychological horror" crud that has been being pushed hard recently.

But, as I said, I expect most people here will disagree with my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Erja_Perttu]

Seriously? Inside the "sick" mind of a school shooter mod? I'm guessing you're slightly biased against this guy.

I agree with most of his points. Not about why he wanted to make it, because that's just silly, but his answers to your questions. I mean, it was hilarious that people were going on about how they wanted to kill Jack Thompson and its brilliant that he sticks by his idea of what a game should be. He wants the game to be a mindless shooting game that's rude and offensive and where you kill people, and do you know what?

That is absolutely fine

More power to him. At least he's sticking by his ideals as a person, and these ideals aren't truly hurting anyone. The man gets a respect five from me.

Edit:

As a point of interest. I wonder how many of you would mind so much if it was shooting monsters for points before the big bad boss monsters killed you?

And as pointed out below, I wonder how many of you were ok with Call of Juarez but not ok with this?

I agree to a point that the game this guy has made is fine, it's up to the person who plays it to judge it, but your point about comparisons to other games is moot. In those games the NPCs fight back, whereas it's specifically stated the 'innocent' students your shooting at can't defend themselves against you. The swat teams are another story entirely, but you don't start off shooting them.

Considering there's a game that lets you play as a jihadist, it's not hugely shocking someone would make a game like this at some point. I will freely exercise my right to not play it.

Ok, fair point about COJ, but the monsters game. You're shooting little baby monsters, who can't shoot back, for points until mamma gets home. Would that be as bad or is it different altogether because of that point?


(Damn, I can see myself arguing this point all night)

Well,m as I don't have a reference point for an actual monster game where you can kill baby monsters, I will say that, in its simplest form, disregarding the premise entirely, I wouldn't play it because it doesn't sound entertaining.

I think much the same of this school shooting game, it just doesn't look like fun to me, so I wouldn't particularly want to play it. As for the shock aspects, I do find the subject matter distasteful because I dislike the premise, and I wouldn't play something I don't enjoy. It won't stop someone making this game or someone else enjoying it, but those are my thoughts.

On a completely separate note, I think anything to do with a school which involves shooting has already been done far better by the Persona games. Those were entertaining and children shot themselves in the head! Oh the drama!

 

[Tyro The Fox]

More than the fact that the game was made, what really got to me (and someone earlier in the thread touched on this) was how myopic this guy seems to be. Not only does he not consider the effect context can have on a game (or any piece of media, for that matter -- such is the very soul of communication), but he presents as dictum that "video games shouldn't be particularly deep or insightful, and that they are most fun when [the player] can just shut off their brains and let their reflexes take over."

While that may be his personal opinion -- which he is certainly entitled to -- he does not seem to consider that people might play games for different reasons. (As a personal counterpoint, I'm not much of a fan of the GTA games due entirely to the gratuitous violence against innocents. When I play a game like that, I pretty much stick to the story missions.) Moreover, the guy either doesn't realize or doesn't care that, should his game garner sufficient media attention, it could significantly set back gaming for everybody who isn't him (or a gamer like him). At best, that makes him irresponsible, and at worst, a selfish bastard.

In short, I am offended not only at his short-sighted assertion that games should not carry any deeper meaning, but at his deliberate wounding (or attempt thereto) of the case for it.

HERE BLOODY HERE! That was what got me the most with his interview. It's as though he believes that games can never transgress the some of their parts, like a book or a film, and become something greater, challenging and captivating, evolving the mind of the player as well as the industry as a whole. Games should attempt to raise above their reputation, rather than stay perfectly content to stagnate in a world of mindless button mashing in a small, boring room.

 

[Silva]

There is a point where free speech becomes a ludicrous suggestion and this is it. Yeah, I support free speech - to a degree. But I think it's a display of die hard extremism to say that under free speech we should allow people to run simulations of killing children.

All this talk of "killing children".... All the screenshots show adult models taken from City 17. Are they going to replace them with children at some point? If not, what makes this different from the Airport level in Cadoody, which itself was thinly veiled under the guise of "LOOK HOW BAD TERRORISM IS!!"?

Well, I don't know what the plans are. The intent of the developer is clearly to display the killing of school children, if you read the interview. I doubt the models will remain adults within that aim.

Meanwhile, that airport level was also reprehensible in its immature functionality and the sensationalism it garnered (which probably made the game it was in even more popular in the end). But since it was displayed as a more neutral means to get close enough to a guy who was going to kill even more people and then take him out, it was at least struggling to show a morally complex context for what you do in the level. It didn't achieve this properly, and the result was probably a scene most enjoyed by the same people who'd enjoy this mod, but the intent appears to have been different and that is worth acknowledging.

Those differences, particularly in combination, should be enough to create a divide of action in how we deal with this mod and CoD respectively.

 

[Joshic Shin]

Splendid! Good to see some people actually trying to push the limits of what can be shown and what can be seen. Take it as an horror if you will. Risks are what this art form needs if it wishes to be taken seriously.

On serious note. There are better mods that dont just look like Garry's Mod.

There is a big difference between advancing an art form with risks (like say Bioshock, Amnesia, Today I Die, or other out there games) and doing snuff work. This game decidedly falls into the latter camp. This will not make the gaming industry look more serious, this will make the gaming industry look like a place where seriousness is not taken at all, and that's at best.

I'll forgive you for using those games as an examples.

At this rate, I dont see much salvation to the gaming as an art form if it cant take a risk and be shunned for it. They need to be brave enough to stand on their own feets! And by that, I dont mean an publisher that realises that hes standing on a position of an drugdealer.

...
Games have been too repeative to me lately. People are even calling a game where you play as an space marine in a fallout scenerio with palm trees and shooting zombies - with three guns - and performing quick events while covering behind chesthigh walls as "a wind from the past". What the f-!!

Ah, well if you'll forgive me citing such notable games I'll forgive you for overlooking this developer's feelings on gaming and art. Such as:

Because that's exactly what games are. The media is right to dismiss games as "bang-bang shoot 'em ups" and "murder simulators," because at their core, that is exactly what most games boil down to.

He doesn't want his game to be any different. He wants to make another "wind from the past" as you put it. Just, you know, with kids in a high school.

However, you have made me curious. What would you consider artistic in gaming? Where games like Limbo, Today I Die, Braid and others not artistic to you? Were they just *yawn* another boring attempt at making an "edgy" game?

 

[Giuglea]

snip

Free speech and free expression doesn't mean I can use it as it suits me, it means free speech, fairly, to everyone.

So yeah, so long as it isn't actually illegal, its fine. Some people like to murder people in games, some people like loli. Its not like they're actually going out and doing it is it?

Stop, stop right there. You aren't thinking this through.

Free speech is not universal in all regards. For instance, you can not go an yell fire into a theater. Why not? Because it harms the public good.

You can not go up to someone and say, "I will kill you." That is called a threat, even though you have free speech.

You can not go up and use hateful speech, that is called a hate crime.

There are numerous examples, but let me just give you the short version of this argument. Many of us on here calling for this game to not be made are not calling for government action. We are asking the developer to stop, think about what he is doing critically, and realize that his game will only hurt people and serve no artistic purpose. In fact, what he is doing could easily fall under obscenity laws. That is, one can not put out into the public sphere things of an obscene nature.

In other words, it if serves no artistic, scientific, or other noble purpose and is against public morals then it will be banned. It is tricky to define, and this game would not easily fit it. One could make an argument saying it is artistic in some way, but the developer said that it isn't. He flat out said he is making it just to kill children.

Why is that better than the previous analogy of making a game just to rape children to get points?

I'm sorry for attacking you so much by the way, but you are the only consistent poster on here arguing for the game, so I'm trying to wrap my mind around why you would not just defend his right but be for him making the game. I can understand defending his right, but not making the game.

if killing zombie kids in dead space 2 got so much attention..imagine what this game would do to the industry..u might say that popping a few kids is fun because they are annoying and u might say it wouldn`t turn u in a psycho and u may probably be right..but the reaction would bring the industry 10 years back..new laws would be put out..and a lot of games would be limited to a non-sexual non-goreish theme..when u think of it this way..it sucks, i know, so i would rather play games which got culture in them or awake feelings in me or games that make me think twice about myself or my life..i for one am not willing to give up this kind of games just so i can kill some kids for 4-6 hours in a bad to complete shit canon game..i think i made myself clear in an previous comment but i just can`t believe somebody is defending those guys..yes u may speak freely but it is not fair that your words should change the face of gaming in a bad way..i don`t want anti gaming laws for the next 20 years because some lunatic kid actually shoots people and then says its the games fault..imagine how much impact that would have!!so please guys think it through for the sake of gaming..

 

[TheNarrator]

This game definitely isn't my cup of tea, but I find it rather hypocritical to go all apeshit over it when this really isn't any worse than GTA and only slightly worse than your everyday shooter. It's no more than a destillation of what three quarters of gamers find amusing about games. Murder is in almost every game, and it's not more wrong simply because your victims are children. Being an adult doesn't make being murdered any less dramatic. The only difference is that this game isn't hypocritical about it.

That being said, I'm not going to play this. It's a game made to please base instincts, like any other gore game or poor action film, without any depth whatsoever. I enjoy games if they offer something more than that. Other than that, I wouldn't be able to enjoy killing virtual innocent people. I'd feel compassion rather than pleasure. Yet at the other hand side, there are plenty other games and films that also aim at our most basic instincts to amuse us (including violence), and I don't think there's any reason to focus on this particular game more than on any of these others. Also, that developer is an idiot for saying that games cannot be art. They definitely can be.

 

[Citrus]

The way the news victimized the victims and overplayed the evil of the shooters disgusted me more than the actual shootings themselves.

I can think of plenty to say about the game and interview, but I'll keep it to myself; this guy is clearly desperate for attention, and here we are giving it to him.

 

[Thedarkness77]

The media is going to be all over this, this guy should know that its wrong and stoped while he was ahead.

 

[Dogstile]

As a point of interest. I wonder how many of you would mind so much if it was shooting monsters for points before the big bad boss monsters killed you?

My Answer: Not a whole lot. These monsters are likely to be vague, barely characterised antagonistic targets your expected to shoot just because their coming for you or its the premise of the game. We've been doing it for years and it barely matters.

The difference is that these are supposed to be innocent people and your playing as a delusional nut-case that's looking for the ultimate in attention seeking thrills once the media drags out the news-story to further and further lengths. Your acting in a real and immediately upsetting scenario. Your brain is filling in the blanks for the targets you gun down, creating a catharsis. "These are YOUR schoolmates and they all deserve to pay" rather than, "Take care of the random jumble of polygons we've called a 'Monster'".

My offence comes with how close to dragging the whole industry backwards by giving fuckwits that have never played these computer games a stick to give Computer Games a sound whacking, this game is.

Wow...the Extra Credits video came in handy.

That's my exact point though. Those monsters, I never said they were attacking you. I said they were just monsters. You're assuming. The same way you're assuming that my brain is going "KILL MY CLASSMATES, RAWR!".

Its a small mod, its not dragging the industry backwards. Extra Credits really gave everyone a massive sense of "oh god the industry is in danger" feel when really, if its making money, its not going to stop.

 

[Scrythe]

I see where this guy is coming from, and as bad as this may sound: I actually agree with him. This whole fiasco, both during and after the reign of Jack Thompson, has gotten a bit silly.

Having said that, if this is how he wants to get his point across, it would help if he didn't try to come off like he's somehow trolling.

 

[Giest4life]

The fact that it can be made does mean that it should be made. I support the guy for making it---it's your responsibility to not play it. Also, he's right: it's not offensive. Not in the sense that millions die of starvation, disease, and natural calamities and we don't give a wooden nickel about them because we don't know them. Maybe it makes a difference to the parents, family, and other friends. Dead is dead.

 

[Sephychu]

Good. It's a statement.

By playing the game, you aren't shooting up a school, at least at that very moment.
His point relating this to war games is a good one. It shows that people are too sensitive.

Don't draw lines. People just cross them.

 

[chuckman1]

He has the right to do this I can't deny him that however after seeing the trailer i feel sick (literally I feel sick) the video is hard to find so here http://www.moddb.com/mods/school-shooter-north-american-tour-2012/videos/school-shooter-gameplay-video-1
It's not on youtube.

 

[HerbertTheHamster]

Looks hilarious. Killing kids never ceases to be fun.

 

[Nemesis729]

But its just a game... I could reskin it to make it look like your throwing pies at people instead of shooting them... I guess I can see why it would be offensive to some people but in all honesty, They're just pixels, No ones getting hurt

EDIT: I just watched the trailer and CMON, I literally wouldn't be able to tell this was a school if they did tell me "THIS IS A SCHOOL" They weren't even kids! Just pretend its a new level in Half Life, Though to be honest it does look like utter trash

 

[Klepa]

From the gameplay video, it looked like your typical "Kill ten waves of increasingly tougher monsters" game, with school shooting slapped on as a theme, to get publicity. Which it got.

 

[JaredXE]

I can't believe the whining that people on this forum are doing, claiming that the developer has no soul, that he is a monster and is mocking tragedy by allowing people to KILL DIGITAL PATTERNS DEPICTING FAKE PEOPLE.

Sorry, but IT'S A GAME. Games can be art. Games can evoke emotion and lead us on journeys of self-discovery. They can provide commentary on the human condition and be a doorway into blah blah blah......

Sorry, but at the heart of it, a game is just a game. It's not real. A mod such as this is no more real than a scene in a book. No real people died, no tragedy happened. It's a pointless and brainless exercise of catharsis. Get over yourselves. You don't like it, move on and don't play it. Would you be whining this much if instead of human children you were slaughtering the Bunglelizards of Zygote 3? If it were anything other than the depiction of those sweet and innocent teenagers that never do anything to lead someone to kill themselves or others, would anybody give a flying fuck?

Hypocrites the lot of you. I'm one myself, but at least I have the balls to admit it.