Inside the Sick Mind of a School Shooter Mod

[Mikodite]

Seriously? Inside the "sick" mind of a school shooter mod? I'm guessing you're slightly biased against this guy.

I agree with most of his points. Not about why he wanted to make it, because that's just silly, but his answers to your questions. I mean, it was hilarious that people were going on about how they wanted to kill Jack Thompson and its brilliant that he sticks by his idea of what a game should be. He wants the game to be a mindless shooting game that's rude and offensive and where you kill people, and do you know what?

That is absolutely fine

More power to him. At least he's sticking by his ideals as a person, and these ideals aren't truly hurting anyone. The man gets a respect five from me.

Edit:

As a point of interest. I wonder how many of you would mind so much if it was shooting monsters for points before the big bad boss monsters killed you?

And as pointed out below, I wonder how many of you were ok with Call of Juarez but not ok with this?

This sentiment wouldn't bug me so much if we had games on the market (especially AAA manstream titles) that weren't mindless-killing games. The developer goes a step futther and claims that this is all video games are good for! That they can't do all the wonderful things that other media is capable of. That all games are good for is this juvenaille powerfantasy story, and strip this game of the schoolyard scenery and that is what you have. Without being asked, the developer answered "Can a computer make you cry?" with a big, resounding "No".

Somewhere out there Daniel Floyd is crying.

 

[Giest4life]

So i suppose if "Games are art" this is the piss christ.

My rule on art is, if people can only defend something on principle, the object has no substance.

Oh and to all of you post-modernists a word of advice: dont test people's love of free speech, they might realize they dont

What? You mean the philosophical post-modernists, or the other kind? Because I really don't know what other kind of post-modernists are out there.

 

[Tyro The Fox]

I can't believe the whining that people on this forum are doing, claiming that the developer has no soul, that he is a monster and is mocking tragedy by allowing people to KILL DIGITAL PATTERNS DEPICTING FAKE PEOPLE.

Sorry, but IT'S A GAME. Games can be art. Games can evoke emotion and lead us on journeys of self-discovery. They can provide commentary on the human condition and be a doorway into blah blah blah......

Sorry, but at the heart of it, a game is just a game. It's not real. A mod such as this is no more real than a scene in a book. No real people died, no tragedy happened. It's a pointless and brainless exercise of catharsis. Get over yourselves. You don't like it, move on and don't play it. Would you be whining this much if instead of human children you were slaughtering the Bunglelizards of Zygote 3? If it were anything other than the depiction of those sweet and innocent teenagers that never do anything to lead someone to kill themselves or others, would anybody give a flying fuck?

Hypocrits the lot of you. I'm one myself, but at lease I have the balls to admit it.

We've been telling that to morons that decree Video Games as pure, liquid evil on TV for years. If this leaks to news media, we get some bad press around a court case that could decide the future of games.

 

[Dogstile]

snip

Free speech and free expression doesn't mean I can use it as it suits me, it means free speech, fairly, to everyone.

So yeah, so long as it isn't actually illegal, its fine. Some people like to murder people in games, some people like loli. Its not like they're actually going out and doing it is it?

Stop, stop right there. You aren't thinking this through.

Free speech is not universal in all regards. For instance, you can not go an yell fire into a theater. Why not? Because it harms the public good.

You can not go up to someone and say, "I will kill you." That is called a threat, even though you have free speech.

You can not go up and use hateful speech, that is called a hate crime.

There are numerous examples, but let me just give you the short version of this argument. Many of us on here calling for this game to not be made are not calling for government action. We are asking the developer to stop, think about what he is doing critically, and realize that his game will only hurt people and serve no artistic purpose. In fact, what he is doing could easily fall under obscenity laws. That is, one can not put out into the public sphere things of an obscene nature.

In other words, it if serves no artistic, scientific, or other noble purpose and is against public morals then it will be banned. It is tricky to define, and this game would not easily fit it. One could make an argument saying it is artistic in some way, but the developer said that it isn't. He flat out said he is making it just to kill children.

Why is that better than the previous analogy of making a game just to rape children to get points?

I'm sorry for attacking you so much by the way, but you are the only consistent poster on here arguing for the game, so I'm trying to wrap my mind around why you would not just defend his right but be for him making the game. I can understand defending his right, but not making the game.

if killing zombie kids in dead space 2 got so much attention..imagine what this game would do to the industry..u might say that popping a few kids is fun because they are annoying and u might say it wouldn`t turn u in a psycho and u may probably be right..but the reaction would bring the industry 10 years back..new laws would be put out..and a lot of games would be limited to a non-sexual non-goreish theme..when u think of it this way..it sucks, i know, so i would rather play games which got culture in them or awake feelings in me or games that make me think twice about myself or my life..i for one am not willing to give up this kind of games just so i can kill some kids for 4-6 hours in a bad to complete shit canon game..i think i made myself clear in an previous comment but i just can`t believe somebody is defending those guys..yes u may speak freely but it is not fair that your words should change the face of gaming in a bad way..i don`t want anti gaming laws for the next 20 years because some lunatic kid actually shoots people and then says its the games fault..imagine how much impact that would have!!so please guys think it through for the sake of gaming..

Killing kids in dead space 2 got barely any attention. New laws will not be put out. This is a mod. This is a single person's creative (while that is debatable) output, that he is releasing, for free, on an engine people have to buy to run.

Do you have any idea how many games are realise like this one every week? Every month? Go look for them, they're out there, they just aren't as purty looking as this one.

Dear god, I hate EC so much right now...

super snip

Because this doesn't come under hate speech. It doesn't come under any sort of scrutiny other than the fact it might offend people and it doesn't serve an artistic purpose.

That is no reason for us to tell him he shouldn't make it. I understand he wants to make it to shock and make people go "oh my god, why would someone do that" but people using modern art can make entire /careers/ off the exact same thing.

I'm all for games are art, so I support his right to make it, until he breaks any laws, or pushes it in the face of people who don't want to see it. Simple as that really.

And its fine. I enjoy a good debate and you're actually making me think. That's quite rare, and its actually making my night rather fun. Thank you

The problem is that it could be qualified as a snuff film type form of entertainment. Allow me to explain. Every wonder why you don't see real dead bodies on TV, Movies, or newspapers? There was a time when that happened, but now that is illegal. It's called snuff films or yellow journalism. It is the basest way to make a profit, and is considered obscene and illegal now. The problem with games like School Shooter is that they attempt to be these obscene games for the same reason yellow journalists photographed murder scenes, to merely cash in on a tragedy.

This is not art. He even said it isn't, he doesn't think games are an art form. Read that interview again, he is making this game to prove that they aren't. It isn't to make some grander point, it is really just so you murder children. That is so close to being obscene in an illegal way that it probably already passed it.

Let's make an example here though, to help illustrate why a game like this shouldn't be made. I can tell you passionately wish to defend the right to free speech, and that is wonderful, but free speech needs limits. As I have pointed out before there are times where one's free speech isn't really so free. So, what if I was a major radio talk show host and I said on air, "I really hope someone took out this president/party leader/mayor/etc. I would really be thankful that that guy would be gone." Now, what if the next day that leader was killed by one of my listeners? Should I really be able to say I played no role in this incident?

I understand that the argument that this game could lead to more school shootings is a slippery slope fallacy, but something like this should not be made on simple moral, societal, or just plain decency grounds. This is not the Russian airport scene in MW2 that was part of a grander story. This isn't the Save or Harvest storyline in Bioshock with the little sisters. It isn't even like killing the harmless civilians in GTA.

This is just baseless and useless. The difference between this game and the others was that you had a choice in what you were doing. This game, the only way to win is to kill. You are rewarded for killing innocent children and lose if you do not. That is no longer art, that is not a metaphor, it is merely trying to make sociopathy fun. That is wrong.

In which case, its still a small mod, made by a couple guys. I really don't know why this is getting so much attention. Its wouldn't have been downloaded much at all if gamers hadn't given it so much attention. It would have been what every other school shooter game was like. A crappy game in the back water of the internet.

Anyway, we're clearly of different opinions on this. I get what you're saying its just I don't agree with it. I just don't. Sorry dude. Thanks for actually providing a thoughtful argument on this though.

PEOPLE, I AM DONE ARGUING THIS. IF YOU QUOTE ME, I WILL LEAVE IT NOW, I HAVE WORK DO

 

[Plurralbles]

He just seems like a total douchebag.

Is he 12?

 

[camazotz]

Reading the interview, the dev appears to have some rather strong opinions about video games and the people who play them. Which is okay and his personal buisness.

He, however, also appears to be COMPLETLY incapable of reflection, considering other peoples viewpoints and emotions or even that he may actually be WRONG about something.

I.e. EXACTLY the type of person who could make such a game and really honestly believe that there is NOTHING wrong with it.

Edit:

Note: I am not defending the game, I am defending the right to create one.

Oh yes, definitly, that goes without saying.

Yeah I noticed this too. He seems to have a problem with both empathy and an ability to relate to other perspectives. His quote here:

I think the media tried to cover it in a way that made the events more dramatic than they actually were. Even in my younger age, I saw right through most of it. The way the news victimized the victims and overplayed the evil of the shooters disgusted me more than the actual shootings themselves. The fact of the matter is, I never knew any of the victims, or anybody else who attended the schools. It affected me as much as hearing about the quakes in Haiti. Which is to say, not very much at all.

made me realize that this guy actually doesn't relate to human suffering all that well, and frankly could go on to make a "Haitain earthquake" game just as readily as he would a Columbine-style game. Although I'm loathe to call these games...by definition a game should be fun on some visceral level, and this is just sickening.

Anyway, he's got the right to make it, but I hope the infamy he receives tanks his prospective future career rather than help it. I'm optimsitic enough to think that more people don't like this crap than do, so that's the best I can hope for. That, and that Fox News doesn't get too much mileage out of this garbage.

 

[AxelxGabriel]

I am literally speechless about this. I think Stan and Kyle said it best.

"You know, we believe in equality for everybody, and tolerance, and all that gay stuff, but dude, fuck you."

 

[Harbinger_]

It's people like the one who created this game that are sabotaging any sort of progress that the video game industry can make to get out of the stigma that games are abominations. Did this guy used to work in the EA marketing department by any chance? I'd not be surprised if an angry mob showed up outside this guy's house.

 

[Darkauthor81]

I'll defend anyone's right to make a game about anything.

But this guy's blatant disregard to how this game will impact the industry, the image of gamers, and not the mention victims of these crimes, tells me he's completely apathetic and trying to cash in on 5 minutes of fame at best. A sociopath at worst.

 

[alithanar8]

As Extra Credits has said in the past, its games like this that prohibit the nongamers from realizing the merits of video games as an art form. With more and more immature and sickening titles like this our cause is being set behind years. I just hope this performs so terribly that no one in the media discovers this and uses it as more ammo to against mainstream gaming.

 

[CosmicCommander]

It's not even good, he's just rehashing the weapons and models from Vanilla HL2, and applying an arena script. But hell, I'd download this if they have sound effects of people screaming like hell. Maybe special finishing moves where you see the fearful last glances of people as you press a gun to their temple, begging you not to as you press the trigger.

Alright, seriously, stop getting your panties in a bunch. This guy should make this, and we should just stop caring about the media. Even the general public realize games like this are a minority, and anyone's gonna jump on this. When there's publicly available pornography, degenerative films, TV, and shitty books everywhere, we shouldn't be ashamed to do the same. If games are an artistic medium, like every single pretentious ass on this forum seems to claim, then we shouldn't be ashamed to make this. If every other medium has the right to make a load of transgressive crap, so can we. At least this particular piece of crap will possess a semblance of fun.

 

[Don quixote's mule]

There is something viscerally entertaining to going nuts in a sandbox game, but killing innocents is never the point of any of these games(with a few exceptions). Even in GTA, killing innocents is not the theme of the experience and doing so is always punished by the game. The same holds true for Red Dead Redemption, Call of Duty, and Mercenaries. it is part of the experience, because these games deal with organized crime, war, and the old west. but again it is part of a much bigger experience not THE experience.
The response that should be taken by the gaming community is to boycott anything this studio does. They have no respect for the medium, it's community or the general public.

 

[Don quixote's mule]

There is something viscerally entertaining to going nuts in a sandbox game, but killing innocents is never the point of any of these games(with a few exceptions). Even in GTA, killing innocents is not the theme of the experience and doing so is always punished by the game. The same holds true for Red Dead Redemption, Call of Duty, and Mercenaries. it is part of the experience, because these games deal with organized crime, war, and the old west. but again it is part of a much bigger experience not THE experience.
The response that should be taken by the gaming community is to boycott anything this studio does. They have no respect for the medium, it's community or the general public.

 

[Don quixote's mule]

it reposted on me

 

[Seneschal]

Meh, the game seems just bad. Silly and gratuitous at the most. I'm pretty sure everyone here would think up worse things if they had a holodeck.

It's the designer that's a moron. "Games are supposed to be just enticing pixels that move around according to input, meant to waste the time of those using them." Then why the fuck does his game have context and a clear theme? He says it's not publicity and controversy. And then he dares to compare his tactless brainfart to a tongue-in-cheek satire like Bulletstorm? Acquire some taste and imagination or stop flaunting your lack of them, you worthless waste of flesh!

 

[fisk0]

Now, this does sound like a very reasonable guy, and his ideas are really intriguing to me, but personally I'd like it if a game like this would take it a bit further. In GTA and similar games, you are committing random acts of violence against random people, totally unknown to the perpetrator (both the gamer and the in-game character) - but in many cases, that's not what the school shootings are about. Many of the shooters have left diaries and other writings behind, and often they feel contempt for society, and the people around them, either as bullies or people who allow some crap to go on. In their eyes, their victims are rarely innocent, they either actively or passively created an environment/society the shooters wanted to be no part of. What I'd really want is for someone to make a game based on the writings of the shooters, and their inspirations, to not just make a game like this or GTA were you kill innocent unarmed people for fun - but where you are led to see the situation from the mind of a school shooter.
Postal 2 and the movie Falling Down did something like that, though in a very humorous and exaggerated manner, but what I'd really want to see is a game more going for something like the 2003 movies Elephant and Zero Day, and some of the numerous dramas about other politically (or similarly) motivated serial killers, like the documentaries about the UNA bomber, or the Swedish 2005 drama series about the attempted serial killer John Ausonius, a.k.a. Lasermannen/The Laser man.

 

[Leviathan_]

Yet another sucky mod to add to the pile, this one just having a very silly setting.

Some of his points are still valid though, I'll give him that. But honestly, just making a game like this to gain some attention from the media and showing the world how 'hardcore' they are still seems a bit sad to me.

The only thing I am offended by is the fact that he still believes games shouldn't have a good plot. What a Barbarian!

 

[Rewdalf]

I like to think of this as a response to the media's belief that all games are murder simulators...
Well, here's a murder simulator, and it probably wouldn't have been made if it wasn't for the demonization of violent video games...

 

[Dexiro]

Wow... The mod itself I don't mind, but holy crap the guy in that interview is messed up.

He talks about "the fun of killing innocent people" and the main appeal of GTA being killing innocent civilians before the cops show up, someone needs to tell him that that's not normal o-o