Inside the Sick Mind of a School Shooter Mod

[vivster]

I get the feeling the creators have been planted and they're out to make gamers and game developers look like cunts (pardon my french)

well that was my first thought too
but then i read the interview
and i must say i fully agree with almost everything he says
i applaud the creators for their work and their vision
they are in fact better people than anyone who ever hurt a person physically

the chance that this game will incite the blood lust in a person is the same as that it will calm a person with that kind of blood lust down

the game is just another parallel to rape games/porn and comics that depict underage kids in sexual acts
better to have a fictional valve for your dangerous desires than do it in real
that's why i think that banning that kind of material is if anything dangerous for society

 

[Bobbity]

I get the feeling the creators have been planted and they're out to make gamers and game developers look like cunts (pardon my french)

well that was my first thought too
but then i read the interview
and i must say i fully agree with almost everything he says
i applaud the creators for their work and their vision
they are in fact better people than anyone who ever hurt a person physically

the chance that this game will incite the blood lust in a person is the same as that it will calm a person with that kind of blood lust down

the game is just another parallel to rape games/porn and comics that depict underage kids in sexual acts
better to have a fictional valve for your dangerous desires than do it in real
that's why i think that banning that kind of material is if anything dangerous for society

On the other hand, one could make the argument that once someone is bored of this game, they might move to the next level. I don't necessarily believe that, but I know a few people who do.

Oh, hoping for disease or personal difficulty is so much nicer than hoping he gets hit by a car.

Anyone that wishes harm or death for disagreeing about politics or fictional material is a shitty human being and I'll say it again if I have to.

Terrible was the wrong word, I admit. I meant something more in line with him being contacted by a victim's parents, or just something to really make him see how sick this mod is, how terrible this sort of thing is in real life, and why a game shouldn't be made about it.

 

[ShadowKirby]

I won't be playing it at ALL, but I do have to say:

GOOD FOR THEM

Being offensive and unapologetic about it is not a crime. Western culture has been increasingly pussified since the 70's, to the point that games and cartoons make us cry and wet our pants. Not to mention hypocritical since people here seem to be saying that killing innocent digital adults in GTA is somehow less offensive than killing digital children? Why? They don't exist. 1's and 0's don't have feelings or know the difference in ages. What is the difference between beating a polygonal hooker to death with a bat and shooting a polygonal teenager?

That's the worst argument ever. Going by that logic, a book is just ink on paper, a movie is just light projected on a screen, paintings are just color pigments on a canvas, music is just noise, etc...

You cannot just ignore the intent of the creator, the context of production or what the game is representing. Shit, world religions are based around representations, culture is all about representation. Why wouldn't it matter here, because it's a game?

And it's not to say that video games can't go where other mediums go, but a movie where all you'd see is kids getting shot down without any context or message, that'd be shunned by movie critics or any sensible human beings. Why would it be okay here? Cause it's just a game and games don't really matter, they are just 0s and 1s?

 

[General Vagueness]

It's times like these I remember why I don't affiliate with The Escapist much. You did exactly what he was talking about in playing up the drama and importance of this, and it's times like these that I feel good about myself because of my philosophy on life, part of which is being more concerned with reality (and the things people pass off as reality) than with fiction. It would be nice to have it agreed with by someone who isn't so reviled (and questionable in his wording) but what can you do.

 

[vivster]

I get the feeling the creators have been planted and they're out to make gamers and game developers look like cunts (pardon my french)

well that was my first thought too
but then i read the interview
and i must say i fully agree with almost everything he says
i applaud the creators for their work and their vision
they are in fact better people than anyone who ever hurt a person physically

the chance that this game will incite the blood lust in a person is the same as that it will calm a person with that kind of blood lust down

the game is just another parallel to rape games/porn and comics that depict underage kids in sexual acts
better to have a fictional valve for your dangerous desires than do it in real
that's why i think that banning that kind of material is if anything dangerous for society

On the other hand, one could make the argument that once someone is bored of this game, they might move to the next level. I don't necessarily believe that, but I know a few people who do.

people that spring easy at this kind of stimulus are dangerous for society anyway
you can't do anything about those people
and stop developing "possibly inciting entertainment" is certainly not the way to deal with this problem
not that there are any precautions you could do to prevent it

if it is only about lowering the chance of a bad thing to happen there are enough other methods to do so than restricting the freedom of speech

 

[Always_Remain]

See, The Paragon Dave in me wants to say, "No. This is wrong. The people you're shooting at can't even fight back or anything and it's horrible to shoot unarmed civilians. Real or not. Plus, it's very similar to events where people's loved ones have died."

Renegade Dave on the other han- Wait. No. Renegade Dave thinks that shit is fucked up too. There is no mission besides killing civilians and

BUT! Moral-Gray-Area Dave thinks that this is no big deal. Postal is just as bad or worse. It's not like you're actually taking a gun to actually students. I mean look at "No Russian". People didn't go nuts and start shooting down Russian airports after they played that.

So yeah. Not sure how to feel but my opinions are probably going to get buried in this huge thread anyways.

 

[General Ken8]

Good for him for doing what he wants without worrying about what other people have to say, but this still isn't pretty. I think this will give Fox News some ammunition too, and that's never good.
I'm pretty sure the only reason everyone is so upset is because the idea is very insensitive, but I'm not going to argue with the guy because he seems to know what he's doing

 

[Bobbity]

snip

True. I think this is more a case of a game that shouldn't have been made because it's insensitive, rather than a game that must be banned and flamed and stabbed and so on because it'll destroy society. Still, the guy in the interview shows a remarkable level of detachment from his subject matter.

 

[Thaius]

ARGH I... okay. Rant coming up, people. Apologies in advance.

We live in a culture that says games don't matter. They're a waste of time, they can't possibly do anything productive, etc. It ignores the artistic aspects of games, the narrative power of interactivity, the social potential of multiplayer... it ignores all these things in favor of the idea that "video games shouldn't be particularly deep or insightful, and that they are most fun when they can just shut off their brains and let their reflexes take over."

That is an exact quote from this developer.

This is what happens, people. This is the logical conclusion of viewing something with inherent value and power as meaningless. This is what happens when we claim that something powerful in fact has no power whatsoever.

By denying video games any sort of societal or cultural value, we are allowing sick mindsets and games like this to exist. In our desperate attempt to avoid critical thought and life-changing interactive art, we are giving people no reason not to make crap like this.

Let's not even get into the selfishness and complete lack of empathy (not giving a crap about people's lives being forever ruined just because you personally don't know them? Seriously?), but the very reasoning he is using here is the same reasoning people use to claim that video games are harmful. Allow me to forcefully address those who see no value in video games when I say WAKE UP PEOPLE!!! You are only hurting things with your willful ignorance and desperate attempts to curtail artistic movement. Stop holding us back and we'll stop giving you reason to.

Now I'm going to go scream in frustration while digging my fingernails into my palms. Seriously, this outright PISSES ME OFF.

 

[Jubbert]

The difference between this mod and things such as GTA and Manhunt and Bulletstorm is that those games have art direction, stories to tell, and a point to their existence.

This is just shock-inducing violence for the sake of shock-inducing violence.

 

[Nurb]

I won't be playing it at ALL, but I do have to say:

GOOD FOR THEM

Being offensive and unapologetic about it is not a crime. Western culture has been increasingly pussified since the 70's, to the point that games and cartoons make us cry and wet our pants. Not to mention hypocritical since people here seem to be saying that killing innocent digital adults in GTA is somehow less offensive than killing digital children? Why? They don't exist. 1's and 0's don't have feelings or know the difference in ages. What is the difference between beating a polygonal hooker to death with a bat and shooting a polygonal teenager?

That's the worst argument ever.

Because you don't like the subject

Going by that logic, a book is just ink on paper

It is

a movie is just light projected on a screen

Movies are a collaberative effort of many people to express the vision of their creators, and if fictional, that's all they are

paintings are just color pigments on a canvas

They are.

You cannot just ignore the intent of the creator, the context of production or what the game is representing. Shit, world religions are based around representations, culture is all about representation. Why wouldn't it matter here, because it's a game?

Intent doesn't matter. A person can write, shoot video, or sing about advocating the death of religious people, races, countries, etc. But, there's a difference between wanting something and expressing thought in a medium and actually doing it. Just as there is a difference between fiction and reality, which is what gamers say over and over when they take enjoyment out of running over little old ladies in a game.

And it's not to say that video games can't go where other mediums go, but a movie where all you'd see is kids getting shot down without any context or message, that'd be shunned by movie critics or any sensible human beings. Why would it be okay here? Cause it's just a game and games don't really matter, they are just 0s and 1s?

It would be ok in anything so long as its fictional. You know, that Evan Emory guy that made up a dirty comedy song involving sexual acts with kids and made it appear they were reacting to it, and now he's getting child porn charges despite no children being involved at any point because people don't like the lyrics and find them offensive.

If you start putting limits on expression, you're going to be getting more people wanting to include more things that people can't say, write, draw, or create.

Stop getting worked up over things that don't exist. There's two unjust wars going on and people trying to take rights away from the working class.

"Books won't stay banned. They won't burn. Ideas won't go to jail. In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas and an extensive education." -Alfred Whitney Griswold 1959

 

[tirone231]

Seriously? Inside the "sick" mind of a school shooter mod? I'm guessing you're slightly biased against this guy.

I agree with most of his points. Not about why he wanted to make it, because that's just silly, but his answers to your questions. I mean, it was hilarious that people were going on about how they wanted to kill Jack Thompson and its brilliant that he sticks by his idea of what a game should be. He wants the game to be a mindless shooting game that's rude and offensive and where you kill people, and do you know what?

That is absolutely fine

More power to him. At least he's sticking by his ideals as a person, and these ideals aren't truly hurting anyone. The man gets a respect five from me.

Edit:

As a point of interest. I wonder how many of you would mind so much if it was shooting monsters for points before the big bad boss monsters killed you?

And as pointed out below, I wonder how many of you were ok with Call of Juarez but not ok with this?

while I believe you have a point in terms of the hypocrisy between close to home and foreign concepts (this v. the new Call of Juarez or Medal of Honor w/ Taliban or No Russian), there is a slight difference to be made. In Call of Juarez, Medal of Honor, or COD: MW2, you aren't killing unarmed civilians for fun (don't know much about new Call of Juarez so can't say for certain), you're killing armed enemies also trying to kill you.

Even in Modern Warfare 2, the No Russian mission existed to show the depths to which Makarov would sink to start a war, and you never had to fire the trigger if you didn't want. In GTA, the worlds were always created to be slightly off (odd advertisements on stolen car radios, etc.) and so it could be said that the violence in those games was almost parody, as even the "good guys" were usually nuts. Even when you mowed down civilians, the game didn't give you points, it just got the cops to chase you. This game is likely being made just to show that it can be made, no thought required. There's a difference between choosing offensive source material to say something about it, and just plain ignoring the source material...

Also, the game sounds repetitive as hell...

 

[cocoadog]

Whoever this person should be imprisoned. Comparing bulletstorm to this immoral garbage is ridiculous.

 

[vivster]

snip

True. I think this is more a case of a game that shouldn't have been made because it's insensitive, rather than a game that must be banned and flamed and stabbed and so on because it'll destroy society. Still, the guy in the interview shows a remarkable level of detachment from his subject matter.

there is absolutely nothing wrong in creating it
especially if it comes with a point that wants to be made

the most important point made is that people are different and that taboos exist only in our minds
this game is nothing but absolute honest
it's even more honest than the people that actually like to play this but try to convince themselves otherwise

 

[Morbira]

Perhaps someone has addressed this already in a previous post, but there are too many already in the conversation for me to sift through them all. Now that my caveat is over:

Has anyone actually taken the time to watch the gameplay videos released by the mod developers? I'm sorry, but there is absolutely nothing in this "mod" that is representative of the subject matter. All of the NPCs are directly ripped and unedited HL models of City 17 citizens and scientists who certainly don't look the slightest bit like high-schoolers. The police are all Combine (minus one screen with Barney), the maps are all constructed out of HL preset textures and models (save perhaps a poster or two), and the guns are fucking identical to their form and function in HL.

Let's talk AI too. There's absolutely nothing disturbing or provocative in the way these NPCs are acting. They don't dive for cover or bow their heads in terror or beg for their lives. Hell, they barely act in a way that coincides with basic self-preservation instinct, half-heartedly jogging in some random direction away from the player.

There is nothing profoundly disturbing about the way you execute civilians either. There is no graphic portrayals of gore. No sense that the flesh is even resisting. Just a flash discolored red in the air followed by ragdoll physics. If anything, this mod plays out less like a visceral, mass-murdering sim and more like Painkiller. A really shitty Painkiller, because at least the targets and levels in that game had variety and the weapons were actually creative and fun to use.



TL;DR: Seriously, the only reason anyone is making a fuss here is because the mod has "SCHOOL SHOOTER" in the title. You could seriously replace "school" with "office," "warehouse," or "lame one-piece jumpsuit convention" and it would make absolutely no difference from an objective opinion. Link for reference:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/school-shooter-north-american-tour-2012

 

[Thaius]

If you start putting limits on expression, you're going to be getting more people wanting to include more things that people can't say, write, draw, or create.

Stop getting worked up over things that don't exist. There's two unjust wars going on and people trying to take rights away from the working class.

Sorry to butt in here, but I noticed a wee bit of hypocrisy that I figured should be brought to light. You are simultaneously devaluing artistic expression by reducing literature to ink on a paper and all that, but still putting importance on creative expression? Well, is it important and impacting or not? Because you are only contradicting yourself if you are simultaneously saying that art is meaningless but artistic expression is important.

By the way, it's not meaningless. Art is one of the most vital aspects of a society and culture. So what exactly are you trying to say here?

 

[Bobbity]

snip

True. I think this is more a case of a game that shouldn't have been made because it's insensitive, rather than a game that must be banned and flamed and stabbed and so on because it'll destroy society. Still, the guy in the interview shows a remarkable level of detachment from his subject matter.

there is absolutely nothing wrong in creating it
especially if it comes with a point that wants to be made

the most important point made is that people are different and that taboos exist only in our minds
this game is nothing but absolute honest
it's even more honest than the people that actually like to play this but try to convince themselves otherwise

The thing is though, he's making this game because he thinks it'll be fun. "What's the best part of GTA?" he asks. "The surprise and horror as you turn on innocent victims who are unable to defend themselves".
Or something like that. I thought that was kind of disturbing. True, it's only lines of coding, but makes is difficult to accept.
Personally, I did have fun murdering innocents in GTA, but that was as an expression of freedom in a sandbox game. For this game to be based entirely around the murder of innocents leaves a bad taste in my mouth. True, it was the best bit of GTA, but the context now makes it different.
Maybe I am being sensationalist, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

 

[Jams]

Considering this topic has already hit 12 pages I think this mod almost certainly qualifies as modern art - it's definately more thought provoking than most of the stuff in the Tate Modern. Art is all about evoking emotional response and nobody could deny that this achieves that.

 

[Victor Cross]

Sounds fun, if only to give the middle finger to society.
EDIT: Now that I've actually seen the trailer...I felt sick. And I never feel sick about this stuff. I think this is wrong. And I laugh at 9\11 jokes. Maybe it's because I never knew anybody, but still this is disturbing. I can see trying to make it educational but it's doing it wrong. This is just sick.

Wait...where did you see that trailer?

 

[vivster]

snip

True. I think this is more a case of a game that shouldn't have been made because it's insensitive, rather than a game that must be banned and flamed and stabbed and so on because it'll destroy society. Still, the guy in the interview shows a remarkable level of detachment from his subject matter.

there is absolutely nothing wrong in creating it
especially if it comes with a point that wants to be made

the most important point made is that people are different and that taboos exist only in our minds
this game is nothing but absolute honest
it's even more honest than the people that actually like to play this but try to convince themselves otherwise

The thing is though, he's making this game because he thinks it'll be fun. "What's the best part of GTA?" he asks. "The surprise and horror as you turn on innocent victims who are unable to defend themselves".
Or something like that. I thought that was kind of disturbing. True, it's only lines of coding, but makes is difficult to accept.
Personally, I did have fun murdering innocents in GTA, but that was as an expression of freedom in a sandbox game. For this game to be based entirely around the murder of innocents leaves a bad taste in my mouth. True, it was the best bit of GTA, but the context now makes it different.
Maybe I am being sensationalist, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

i think your biggest concern is not that this game is solely based around a shooting but that it's the actual goal of the game to reach as much havoc as possible
if it were a shooting simulation without a scoring system it would make probably more sense even to you since the objective is freedom and not killing... i'd love to go on further but i have to hurry to work...