Invisible Tank Appears at London Arms Fair
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They're practically impervious at nighttime, which is half the time in the world, because people rely on thermal imaging and such at night to see during a war. If airplanes were relying on thermal imaging to do their air strike, they wouldn't work well, so someone would need to literally stick a thermal dart onto the tank. Javelin missiles would also be useless as those rely on heat signatures.w9496 said:
They can still be killed by mines of course though.
Still haven't seen any big holes poked in the "regular old human eyes" argument. People's eyes aren't heat-sensitive, so as long as it's actually physically there regular cameras staffed by people can see it as well.
Not that it isn't really cool from a science perspective, but what a weird weakness.
Not that it isn't really cool from a science perspective, but what a weird weakness.
Weapons may not, but I'm sure the armor and stealth panels would help the guys inside sleep a little easier at night.Will the Great said:
I think they rely on infra red in a different sense.Redout9122 said:At night, many laser-guided weapons also rely on IR, so even that's not perfect.
But yeah, I knew about this a couple of weeks ago. Having connections in the defense industry is handy sometimesIt has incredible applications in a number of military uses. The hope is to soon boil this down to a troop level where soldiers would be concealed from IR detection as well.
There is near infra-red that is just beyond the visible spectrum, this is relatively easy to detect. This is used to shin an invisible "laser spotlight" that missiles and smart bomb home in on. You can shine it onto anything (except a perfect mirror) and the bomb will track straight to it even if the target is indistinguishable from the environment like say there was a particular boulder you wanted blown up out of a whole plain of boulders.
Then there is FAR Infra-Red. Things that are hot emit light waves at this wavelength, but this is quite hard to detect, you need either a bulky or expensive camera. This is used for detecting hot things that are radiating heat and many advanced anti-tank missiles depend on this for targeting jets (Strela/Stinger missiles for jet aircraft, Javelin for Tanks).
This technology seems to defend from the latter, how a tank can inevitably get hot from it's running. Though there are other more low tech methods, one thing you must realise is Far-Infra-Red cammeras can only detect RADIATED heat and that is not the only way vehicles can dissipate heat. There is convection of heat with the air. So the tank could simply be insulated and large volumes of air used to dissipate the heat.
Admittedly, I thought this meant it was turning nearly invisible to the naked eye. However, I can see how this could be more effective. And the fact that the same things can also be hardened to serve as armor is very cool. Though I wonder how effective it is as armor. I'm sure it would be fine against small arms, but what about other tanks? Though, I suppose the idea that they would be invisible to infrared technology SHOULD protect it from tanks and even helicopters. All in all, a pretty cool device. It'd be nice if it was never needed, but that is probably nothing more than wishful thinking. Just hoping my own country never needs to fight against them.
Now, you have to wonder. If they are showing us this, what do they really have? Generally speaking they don't show the coolest military toys to the general public until it's "outdated" or they have much better.
If you're talking about military grade weapons, that's arguable either way. Whether you like it or not, the fact that both the U.S. and Russia had nuclear weapons prevented more than a few nuclear strikes and even full scale war (if my memory is serving me properly). That philosophy of mutually assured destruction was more than just wind.
On the other hand, hundreds of thousands died in World War One because the military didn't really know how to properly use their weapons. Machine guns and such were still pretty new and hadn't really been used in full scale conflict. They still were attempting to use them under older tactics, like Revolutionary War tactics. As a direct result many people were simply mowed down in mass. Countless people died that shouldn't have in those situations. Seriously, back when WWI broke out, most people thought it would last a few months. Personally, I count that as inexperience or ignorance and blame the short sighted leaders more than the weapons.
But, hey. I see weapons as mere tools. Just like a hammer (which could easily be used to kill someone), or a kitchen knife. And I have no fear of them. The people using them are a different story. Though, I find most people are pretty decent and it's the crazy ones you have to be careful of. So, take that in consideration when you read my comment and thoughts.
Now, you have to wonder. If they are showing us this, what do they really have? Generally speaking they don't show the coolest military toys to the general public until it's "outdated" or they have much better.
And I find this statement to be pretty naive. I've read of more than a few situations where a weapon, like a gun, saved the life of the owner or someone else. Far more situations where they saved, or at least protected, the victim, than where they were used against the victims.Will the Great said:
If you're talking about military grade weapons, that's arguable either way. Whether you like it or not, the fact that both the U.S. and Russia had nuclear weapons prevented more than a few nuclear strikes and even full scale war (if my memory is serving me properly). That philosophy of mutually assured destruction was more than just wind.
On the other hand, hundreds of thousands died in World War One because the military didn't really know how to properly use their weapons. Machine guns and such were still pretty new and hadn't really been used in full scale conflict. They still were attempting to use them under older tactics, like Revolutionary War tactics. As a direct result many people were simply mowed down in mass. Countless people died that shouldn't have in those situations. Seriously, back when WWI broke out, most people thought it would last a few months. Personally, I count that as inexperience or ignorance and blame the short sighted leaders more than the weapons.
But, hey. I see weapons as mere tools. Just like a hammer (which could easily be used to kill someone), or a kitchen knife. And I have no fear of them. The people using them are a different story. Though, I find most people are pretty decent and it's the crazy ones you have to be careful of. So, take that in consideration when you read my comment and thoughts.
Yeah, but stealth aircraft aren't invisible to the naked eye either.w9496 said:
If this actually works as demonstrated, it'd play havoc with any thermal imaging missiles, and it'd be almost invisible at night.
Combine this with the obvious ability to actually move the tank itself, and more traditional camouflage, and it would seem that finding one of these would depend on having enemy ground forces in visual sight of it at all times.
Since it'd be practically invisible from the air, the only way to hit one would be manual target designation.
Certainly not foolproof, but there's a reason stealth bombers do 99% of their missions at night too...
They've already made mine-resistance armoured vehicles. They essentially work by elevating the crew/engine compartment above the ground and giving a "V-shaped" hull, it exploits the inverse-square law of the power of explosions and the fluid dynamics of the overpressure (that rips armour apart).arc1991 said:
The problem is this is in contradiction with modern tanks design that seeks to be as low to the ground as possible as tank warfare is all about exploiting the crests of hills and low cover to manoeuvre for the idea position, and ideally fire from a "hull-down" or even a "turret down" position where they can shoot at the enemy tank while most of their body is out of line of sight.
Though tanks like M1 Abrams though they get paralysed by huge landlines as their treads or shredded and they end up in a crater, the Abrams is just so incredibly over-prescribed in strength (to the point where it is too expensive and too heavy, possibly) the crew and vital components survive. Normally it just has to be dragged back to the depot to have it's tracks and a few wheels replaced.
(Hover-tanks might not beat most tank land-mines as not all depend on high pressure to be activated)
I can see this tank being only in special forces engagements at night that requires stealth and infiltration tactics.
Maybe this tank could serve as a front-line communications or IFV, it would be a tad of a stretch to field MBT's out of that stuff on a large scale, maybe in about 30 years though who knows.
Maybe this tank could serve as a front-line communications or IFV, it would be a tad of a stretch to field MBT's out of that stuff on a large scale, maybe in about 30 years though who knows.
Actually they do have those mini nukes if you didnt know, just they dont want to use 'em in fear of them being used on them.Sassafrass said:Best use I can think of it is this.Simalacrum said:
Sneak slowly towards target.
Load a new shell that is basically a mini-nuclear bomb.
Fire at target who has been pissing you of, ie a neighbour or someone you really wish you didn't sell those guns too.
Run the fuck away.
???
Hope you have only one head in a week/profit.
I'm guessing that's pretty much what it'll be used for, if it ever is used.
But that's pretty cool nonetheless. Still want my invisibility cloak, though.
Too bad fungal growth will de-cloak it
On topic: this is really cool technology though it does seem like it will have limited use for now. As others have said, most of the "bad guys" right now can't even afford heat/IR sensors, so against them it's a bit redundant.
My guess is it's mainly for tank vs tank battles, which in a war against other countries would be pretty powerful.
Oh and hi to everyone, this is my first post
On topic: this is really cool technology though it does seem like it will have limited use for now. As others have said, most of the "bad guys" right now can't even afford heat/IR sensors, so against them it's a bit redundant.
My guess is it's mainly for tank vs tank battles, which in a war against other countries would be pretty powerful.
Oh and hi to everyone, this is my first post
As was said before in this thread, tank battles often take place with about a mile between both vehicles, meaning IR or Thermal is how the tanks are spotted and targeted, even in the day. It is that way because you can use camoflage to disguise a tank from the human eye, but there was no way to disguise a vehicles thermal signiture... until now. The vast majority of homing missiles from virtually all other craft use IR and Thermal signatures to home in on their target, that is why fighter jets and helicopters deploy flares to fool them, but with this tech a large portion of anti-armour weapons have been rendered obsolete for most circumstances.Wolf Hagen said:
Yes, when the tank is moving it will become more visible, but there will still be a significant reduction in the amount that the tank gives off, making it a much smaller target.
Really people you think the Taliban or Iraqi forces were stuck in the 40s or something they were reported to be using heat vision and night vision goggles. They were using heat seeking anti-air missiles and thermal imaging planes the latter technologies appeared before that.
So yes it doubtful one of these stealth tanks would be able to drive to a enemy base but there not going to be picked up by enemy surveillance planes or spotters using Night vision goggles in the dark
So yes it doubtful one of these stealth tanks would be able to drive to a enemy base but there not going to be picked up by enemy surveillance planes or spotters using Night vision goggles in the dark
And this tank is necessary to the military of what country for what reason again? I mean it's cool and shit but it seems excessive.