IO Refuses To Be "Dictated To" by Fans

Michael Hirst

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Well okay IO do as you please but don't expect me to buy the game. I've been a long fan of the Hitman series and saw them as a niche in gaming that noone else has ever managed to get into. If Hitman now becomes a cover based FPS with some sneaking elements mixed in it will just blend into a huge crowd of other games.

Trust the audience to be smart enough to find routes through levels and give them a real sense that they're working out the game instead of following a set of pre-installed instructions like a lab chimp "Durr follow this line...hurr put this here...burr shoot it now" that's not playing a game and is definitely not encouraging players to think about what they're doing.

I'll wait until I see more I do understand I'm having what is known as a knee-jerk fanboy reaction but if the game does end up being a third person shooter I will lose interest since outside of Mass effect and Uncharted it's a genre I don't really go into.
 

Saelune

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After reading that, I actually am more ok with what they are doing. I actually hated Hitman after playing Blood Money (first and only Hitman I played) and finding it way too hard. Not until I looked at a guide and was told how to play, I started to understand and LOVE the game. I still want that freedom, more infact, but if they put in some helpers, thats ok.
 

Jumplion

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Woodsey said:
Well so far they've removed the in-game map, put focus on light-based stealth for the first time, added a scripted helicopter chase sequence (?!), drawn lines on the ground to show people where to go (and equated this to giving people more freedom), and given the ability to see through walls.
I'm glad you could deduce it's potential suckage with one 10 minute, behind-closed-doors demo, that is in alpha phase (or so I've heard, could be wrong).

I'd love to be proven wrong but I can see where this could easily head already, because its already happened several times over to different developers.
I'll say what I've said about the DMC reboot; it's perfectly fine to be worried over the game, that is understandable. But please, I would rather you not go down the DMC route of people screaming bloody Mary on the first bare-bones trailer.
 

Woodsey

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Jumplion said:
Woodsey said:
Well so far they've removed the in-game map, put focus on light-based stealth for the first time, added a scripted helicopter chase sequence (?!), drawn lines on the ground to show people where to go (and equated this to giving people more freedom), and given the ability to see through walls.
I'm glad you could deduce it's potential suckage with one 10 minute, behind-closed-doors demo, that is in alpha phase (or so I've heard, could be wrong).

I'd love to be proven wrong but I can see where this could easily head already, because its already happened several times over to different developers.
I'll say what I've said about the DMC reboot; it's perfectly fine to be worried over the game, that is understandable. But please, I would rather you not go down the DMC route of people screaming bloody Mary on the first bare-bones trailer.
I'm not, I'm questioning design decisions that will be present throughout the entire game (bar the helicopter, but really, the inclusion of it is worrying).

This won't have been designed by looking at Blood Money and just slapping X-Ray vision on it you know - depending on how much they think people should use it, these things could impact the entire level design of the entire game significantly.
 

[email protected]

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yeah I'm not buying this ...they ruined hitman for me..no thank you io..no thank you


''batman has detective vision i want that too'' says an io employee while he gets his diapers lovingly changed
 

Fensfield

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If it's something as simple as a breadcrumb-type system.. why not just put a toggle on it? o_O
 

Jumplion

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Woodsey said:
I'm not, I'm questioning design decisions that will be present throughout the entire game (bar the helicopter, but really, the inclusion of it is worrying).

This won't have been designed by looking at Blood Money and just slapping X-Ray vision on it you know - depending on how much they think people should use it, these things could impact the entire level design of the entire game significantly.
*shrug* I dunno, we'll just have to wait and see.
 

Treblaine

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Jumplion said:
Treblaine said:
"Fans don't know best"

Lucas has been shovelling that shit since 1999 and we and buying it.
Weren't the Star Wars prequel a jerkoff for fans who were going on about wanting to know more about Vader? I really wouldn't know, I never really bothered to get that into the Star Wars franchise.

But whatever, doesn't really matter. What matters is that IO, Ninja Theory, Lucas, whoever you want to go on about, have absolutely no obligation to please the "fans". The only obligation they have is to make a good game/movie/whatever. If IO wanted to make Hitman a racing game, or a puzzle game, so be it, that's their decision and theirs alone.

Personally, when playing through Blood Money for the first time, it was a bit overwhelming for me with a ton of things to do. Freedom isn't just plopping you down having a bunch of options, that was the flaw with Scribblenauts. Sure, you could put in a bunch of different words, but when the clear best answer is "God" and "Cthulu" it becomes mundane. They way they're going about this, I think it's more "here's this one path, now branch off and see the different ways you can approach that". For good or ill, IO is sticking to their guns, and I respect that with a developer.
WHAT! Prequel trilogy made "for the fans"?!?!? Have you been living in a box since the 1990's?

Yes, we wanted more Star Wars but NOT THAT!

What I have to say with IO is if they want to make the kind of game they are making why are they butchering the Hitman franchise to do it?

This is clearly something completely different from what Hitman is supposed to be, it is NOT a predatory stealth game with simplistic breadcrumb marked paths.

I'm pretty sure that there are two teams within IO. The team that made Hitman and the team that made Kane & Lynch.

Kane & Lynch came out only 18 months after Blood Money, that's too soon. And before that Freedom Fighters came right in the middle of the 18 month gap between Hitman 2 and Hitman Contracts.

There is clearly a team within IO that makes sub-par shooters (Freedom fighters, Kane & Lynch) and another team that makes sublime assassination games like Hitman. It seems the former are in charge of this project.

For one Hitman Absolution is directed by "Tore Blystad" who was mere art-director on Blood Money.

In Blood Money the title of Game Directed went to Rasmus-Hejengaard.

It seems the subtlety of this is all lost on you if you find Blood Money as overwhelming as scribblenauts. For crap sake, it is OBVIOUS! You explore the world and get clues and push limits, it's not like there are a millions things your can do as there are only so many windows, doors and walls. Scribblenauts you had to consider every word in the English language and more!
 

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Noelveiga said:
Hashbrick said:
Anyone else feel like they are making this whole game into a Fidelity commercial? You're path to success is this way! Great, thx for ruining what made the franchise so great, complete freedom within a level.
Honestly? Not really.

I've played every single game in the franchise and from where I stand you're wrong on two counts. First, the games didn't provide complete freedom within a level. Sure, you could screw up and shoot your way through the game, but the game was pretty clear at labelling that as failure. All the possible options were hard coded, the game just didn't point you towards them. Second, nope, highlighting the options or guard paths is not taking anything away from the freedom. Potentially the same amount of variables and potentially room for you coming up with non-highlighted stuff on your own. I don't see what that takes away from the way the game is structured.
yeah having your hand held by the game IS NOT a lovely design choice it cripples the game and makes it feel linear maybe you should play mario brothers instead?
 

josemlopes

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Treblaine said:
Hitman is not about "stealth" in the sense of hiding in the shadows, it is ALL about hiding in plain sight, in disguises or just mingling with the public. Something so good about stealing a disguise and infiltrating a place just walking around like you are just another guard.

And to the list of bullshit:
-Bateman completely blown off: the voice AND face of Agent 47
-no overmap
-over-emphasis on combat and shooting
-Jesper Kyd not rehired (that god damn amazing music...)
-no mention of more novel assassination modes like "accidental deaths" in Blood Money


I personally will be playing Blood Money and enjoying the good old days. As it seems IO Interactive is suffering from George Lucas Syndrome.
I dont disagree but we still dont know if that part is true, what we saw in the video was the first level and the first level of every Hitman isnt what the rest of the game is about, just look at Contracts, its almost the same thing. The human shield was also present in Blood Money.

The only more action oriented feature that we saw from it was the cover system but that is kind of irrelevant.

I am still waiting to see how the game actually turns out to be but for now my only complaint goes to the line showing the way. I still dont know if the maps are open or not.
 

[email protected]

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Draech said:
I have seen this sort of crap before.

"We know what you like better than you do!" takes a lot of balls to say.

True.... the players dont always seem to be able to point out why they like/dislike a game properly, but that doesn't mean you can just twist critique into "they dont know what they are talking about".

You want my money? Dont make a game I dont like and tell me I am wrong for not liking it.

somebody has to start the slow clap....

/thread
 

The Imp

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"Hey, Maggie, hand me my bullshit translator, will ya?"
"Here you go,Jeff."
"Jesus Christ, the things about to explode!"
"Whats it saying, Jeff?"
"Hold on, let me read it to our audience: You may have brought us and this franchise up but times have changed and there is a bigger crowd in town with deeper pockes so...fuck you and your tastes, we want to make money. Have a nice day."
"Well, at least he finished on a nice note."
 

RA92

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I already lost hope on the AAA model of trying to appeal to 'the wider demography' a long time ago, so nothing much to say here.
 

DannyJBeckett

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I understand that they are explaining that they aren't going to listen to the guys who think they know how to design the ultimate game and also think their opinions are the divine word of God, and I appreciate the reason they're coming out with this; which is to save their email inbox from choking with hate mail such as OMG! U GUYZ R TEH 5UXX0RZ!

But I think if they just decide to ignore all suggestions by fans then they're going to stagnate quicker than old bread in a rainforest. Although I think fan-service is a quick and efficient way to kill a franchise (Spider-Man 3, anyone?), I also think that listening to what a fan has to say and taking that information in moderation without completely skewing a sequel or update towards pleasing them leads to a greater quality in what gets made.
 

Treblaine

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josemlopes said:
Treblaine said:
Hitman is not about "stealth" in the sense of hiding in the shadows, it is ALL about hiding in plain sight, in disguises or just mingling with the public. Something so good about stealing a disguise and infiltrating a place just walking around like you are just another guard.

And to the list of bullshit:
-Bateman completely blown off: the voice AND face of Agent 47
-no overmap
-over-emphasis on combat and shooting
-Jesper Kyd not rehired (that god damn amazing music...)
-no mention of more novel assassination modes like "accidental deaths" in Blood Money


I personally will be playing Blood Money and enjoying the good old days. As it seems IO Interactive is suffering from George Lucas Syndrome.
I dont disagree but we still dont know if that part is true, what we saw in the video was the first level and the first level of every Hitman isnt what the rest of the game is about, just look at Contracts, its almost the same thing. The human shield was also present in Blood Money.

The only more action oriented feature that we saw from it was the cover system but that is kind of irrelevant.

I am still waiting to see how the game actually turns out to be but for now my only complaint goes to the line showing the way. I still dont know if the maps are open or not.
It it looks like a duck and it quacks, don't be the one saying "but what if it's a swan?"'

My bullshit sense is tingling and the MAJOR warning sign is there is a completely different guy at the helm who it appears have never directed a game before.

I've seen a lot more media including magazine articles, there is an extraordinary emphasis on "taking out" guards and pitched gun battles. These kind of games are dime a dozen, WHY is IO doing this?

They have SUCH a unique thing with Hitman, the idea that you can get in somewhere without even being noticed, kill your target then get back out again. Are they not selling it well enough? Why do they feel that they have to copy all Batman Arkham Asylum and SC: Conviction?

I DO NOT buy the argument that we should all shut up and refuse to form an opinion till the game has come out, No one EVER says that when people are being hyped about a game being good. I will not let the marketing fuelled hype machine cover up for how they are fucking over what the Hitman franchise is.

It is subtle, the things that made the Hitman games so great, and it's easy to argue that the most gross deviations are acceptable.

In other words, just because Return of the Jedi had ewoks, that doesn't excuse all the bullshit of the Prequel trilogy.
 

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Noelveiga said:
yeah having your hand held by the game IS NOT a lovely design choice it cripples the game and makes it feel linear maybe you should play mario brothers instead?
Wait, now Mario Bros is an example of *bad* game design?

Wow.

I mean, really. Wow.

Seriously, kids these days. I feel like someboy told me to go watch some of those crappy Murnau films because I expressed a dislike for Transformers 3.
no i was saying obviously you wanted something with less of a challenge and more linear.. maybe instead running down a hallway would suit you more?
 

Jumplion

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Treblaine said:
WHAT! Prequel trilogy made "for the fans"?!?!? Have you been living in a box since the 1990's?

Yes, we wanted more Star Wars but NOT THAT!
I dunno, never really bothered to get that into Star Wars. You wanted moar, you got moar. Just unfortunate it sucked. Lucas has no obligation to cater to fans, only to make a good movie.

What I have to say with IO is if they want to make the kind of game they are making why are they butchering the Hitman franchise to do it?
Please don't go down the DMC fandom route. IO can do whateverthefuck they want with the game, they have no obligation to make a game out of what you think the game should be. If you think you can make a better game than what they'll be putting out, by all means do it. That's not me being facetious, either, it'd be great for someone to "show them how it's done".

This is clearly something completely different from what Hitman is supposed to be, it is NOT a predatory stealth game with simplistic breadcrumb marked paths.
Yes, as you deduced from several previews of a behind-closed-doors, 10-minute demo, that is still probably in alpha phase, of which journalists tend to just put in buzz words to hype a game. Glad you can deduce how this game will suck already.

It seems the subtlety of this is all lost on you if you find Blood Money as overwhelming as scribblenauts. For crap sake, it is OBVIOUS! You explore the world and get clues and push limits, it's not like there are a millions things your can do as there are only so many windows, doors and walls. Scribblenauts you had to consider every word in the English language and more!
So then, if it was OBVIOUS, as you so eloquently put it, then there was no freedom to begin with. With Scribblenauts, I said that the abundance of options just made you rely on the easiest ones. That's how I felt when I played through Blood Money, as if there was only one true path and if I didn't know exactly where I should disguise and exactly where to go, then I wasn't playing the game right.

We won't truly know how the game holds up until we get our hands on it. Don't make the same mistake of instantly judging the game when we have barely any info aside from some quips from sensationalist journalists.