IO Refuses To Be "Dictated To" by Fans

Treblaine

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Noelveiga said:
yeah having your hand held by the game IS NOT a lovely design choice it cripples the game and makes it feel linear maybe you should play mario brothers instead?
Wait, now Mario Bros is an example of *bad* game design?

Wow.

I mean, really. Wow.

Seriously, kids these days. I feel like someboy told me to go watch some of those crappy Murnau films because I expressed a dislike for Transformers 3.
I think he means the very first Mario Bros, which was appropriately linear for 1985.

The problem is this is 2011, and IO is trying to make a game very linear to spite how free form the 3D world can make the game and HAS made the games as with previous titles in the series.

Mario bros of course is not linear today, Mario Galaxy goes into dimensions virtually no other platformer has.

He is criticising IO for REGRESSING! Trying to roll back possibilities while the mario devs have always innovated to try to give as much freedom as their medium permitted.

You just seem to be insulted that in any way something to do with Mario might no be perfect.
 

josemlopes

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Treblaine said:
josemlopes said:
Treblaine said:
Hitman is not about "stealth" in the sense of hiding in the shadows, it is ALL about hiding in plain sight, in disguises or just mingling with the public. Something so good about stealing a disguise and infiltrating a place just walking around like you are just another guard.

And to the list of bullshit:
-Bateman completely blown off: the voice AND face of Agent 47
-no overmap
-over-emphasis on combat and shooting
-Jesper Kyd not rehired (that god damn amazing music...)
-no mention of more novel assassination modes like "accidental deaths" in Blood Money


I personally will be playing Blood Money and enjoying the good old days. As it seems IO Interactive is suffering from George Lucas Syndrome.
I dont disagree but we still dont know if that part is true, what we saw in the video was the first level and the first level of every Hitman isnt what the rest of the game is about, just look at Contracts, its almost the same thing. The human shield was also present in Blood Money.

The only more action oriented feature that we saw from it was the cover system but that is kind of irrelevant.

I am still waiting to see how the game actually turns out to be but for now my only complaint goes to the line showing the way. I still dont know if the maps are open or not.
It it looks like a duck and it quacks, don't be the one saying "but what if it's a swan?"'

My bullshit sense is tingling and the MAJOR warning sign is there is a completely different guy at the helm who it appears have never directed a game before.

I've seen a lot more media including magazine articles, there is an extraordinary emphasis on "taking out" guards and pitched gun battles. These kind of games are dime a dozen, WHY is IO doing this?

They have SUCH a unique thing with Hitman, the idea that you can get in somewhere without even being noticed, kill your target then get back out again. Are they not selling it well enough? Why do they feel that they have to copy all Batman Arkham Asylum and SC: Conviction?

I DO NOT buy the argument that we should all shut up and refuse to form an opinion till the game has come out, No one EVER says that when people are being hyped about a game being good. I will not let the marketing fuelled hype machine cover up for how they are fucking over what the Hitman franchise is.

It is subtle, the things that made the Hitman games so great, and it's easy to argue that the most gross deviations are acceptable.

In other words, just because Return of the Jedi had ewoks, that doesn't excuse all the bullshit of the Prequel trilogy.
If you have more info about it then ok, its just that some people are complaining only based on the leaked video and that video alone just isnt enough to know how the game truly is.

But since you say that there has been confirmation of certain decisions by the dev team then you can complaint all you want.
 

[email protected]

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Noelveiga said:
Noelveiga said:
yeah having your hand held by the game IS NOT a lovely design choice it cripples the game and makes it feel linear maybe you should play mario brothers instead?
Wait, now Mario Bros is an example of *bad* game design?

Wow.

I mean, really. Wow.

Seriously, kids these days. I feel like someboy told me to go watch some of those crappy Murnau films because I expressed a dislike for Transformers 3.
no i was saying obviously you wanted something with less of a challenge and more linear.. maybe instead running down a hallway would suit you more?
No, you were blatantly trolling and accidentally said something rather stupid and made a fool of yourself.

Still not impressed, but come on? Mario as a linear, not challenging, poorly designed game? You really need to rethink your standards there.

For the record, I never thought of Hitman as being particularly *hard*. It could be confusing at times, but rarely difficult.
well, firstly i'd like to rebut your claims that i was ''trolling'' i was stating you seem to want a game to lay some bread crumbs in front of you and put a ''KILL HERE'' sign on all the 'bad guys' and i'm also guessing you prefer the game to give you cookies and milk before bed time too?, also when did i say Mario was poorly designed if you're going to argue with someone it's best you don't put words in the other persons mouth...
 

Treblaine

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Jumplion said:
Treblaine said:
WHAT! Prequel trilogy made "for the fans"?!?!? Have you been living in a box since the 1990's?

Yes, we wanted more Star Wars but NOT THAT!
I dunno, never really bothered to get that into Star Wars. You wanted moar, you got moar. Just unfortunate it sucked. Lucas has no obligation to cater to fans, only to make a good movie.

What I have to say with IO is if they want to make the kind of game they are making why are they butchering the Hitman franchise to do it?
Please don't go down the DMC fandom route. IO can do whateverthefuck they want with the game, they have no obligation to make a game out of what you think the game should be. If you think you can make a better game than what they'll be putting out, by all means do it. That's not me being facetious, either, it'd be great for someone to "show them how it's done".

This is clearly something completely different from what Hitman is supposed to be, it is NOT a predatory stealth game with simplistic breadcrumb marked paths.
Yes, as you deduced from several previews of a behind-closed-doors, 10-minute demo, that is still probably in alpha phase, of which journalists tend to just put in buzz words to hype a game. Glad you can deduce how this game will suck already.

It seems the subtlety of this is all lost on you if you find Blood Money as overwhelming as scribblenauts. For crap sake, it is OBVIOUS! You explore the world and get clues and push limits, it's not like there are a millions things your can do as there are only so many windows, doors and walls. Scribblenauts you had to consider every word in the English language and more!
So then, if it was OBVIOUS, as you so eloquently put it, then there was no freedom to begin with. With Scribblenauts, I said that the abundance of options just made you rely on the easiest ones. That's how I felt when I played through Blood Money, as if there was only one true path and if I didn't know exactly where I should disguise and exactly where to go, then I wasn't playing the game right.

We won't truly know how the game holds up until we get our hands on it. Don't make the same mistake of instantly judging the game when we have barely any info aside from some quips from sensationalist journalists.
He DID have an obligation to his fans and he FAILED to make a good movie. His fans made his fortune and are going to be his main customer for this work.

I am NOT a DMC fanboy. That is the most petty bitching I have ever heard, the gameplay is all right on the money it is just that he has the wrong hair colour. DO NOT try to say my intemperance is entirely superficial it is the precise opposite circumstances. This game is trying to superficially act like a Hitman game but underneath it just wants to be Splinter Cell Conviction or some new predatory stealth game.

Yes, I can deduce that. IO have had a god damn media blow out, and not just on the internet but in Magazine articles, all you have to say is contrarian "you can't be 100% sure". Well I've seen NO evidence they are staying true to what actually made Hitman such an important series.

There was no "one true path" it was a compromise or until you probed and finally found the weakness in the wall of defences. Yeah, it is a hard game that requires a lot of patience, and keeping a clear head thinking logically (well, with the video-game-logic) about all the possibilities. Ultimately it takes a lot of imagination and experimentation which is ALL THE FUN! Not a small part of it, that is the main appeal of the series. Following instructions is busy work, finding your own way is much more satisfying.

One of the most useless books ever written has to be the Blood Money walkthrough guide. It's like reading cliff notes of your favourite novel.

"We won't truly know how the game holds up until we get our hands on it"

That is ridiculous logic that defies all critical thought into what games we buy. So I can't truly say a game is not worth buying or not worth playing until I ave bought it and played it!??!

WHAT!
 

scar_47

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I'll reserve judgement on the game until we see a deent amount of gameplay and a lot more info, as to the article I agree that devs shouldn't be beholden to the fans in such a way the vocal minorities would kill the game for a good portion of the fans with thier crazy ideas anyone who's ever been on a game specific forum has seen tons of threads requesting new features or tweaks, its the developers job to make games if you don't trust them to do that why don't you go make games. The developers owe the fans nothing you saw value in their product and bought it end of story theres no well I bought into x series so I get some say in how its run, especially on games that are so far from release we literally know nothing but a few tid bits and everyone is up in arms its crazy, maybe if we'de seen a demo or read articles from a gameplay session and not a 10 minute piece to get word of the game out I might be concered but its too early for that.
 

The Random One

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A bad creator does not listen to the fans. A good creator does. An execellent creator does, but does what he wants.

That is a position I can respect.

More specifically, the difference between 'I know that window is a point of entry because I've played the game enough to recognize the game design elements that inform me of that' and 'I know that window is a point of entry because I recognize it as such' is mostly academic. Still, they're buying themselves a lot of needless grief if the option can't be just turned off.
 

Treblaine

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Noelveiga said:
Treblaine said:
I DO NOT buy the argument that we should all shut up and refuse to form an opinion till the game has come out, No one EVER says that when people are being hyped about a game being good. I will not let the marketing fuelled hype machine cover up for how they are fucking over what the Hitman franchise is.
I will say that for you right here.

It's a damn shame that the gaming community talks more about games before they are out than after.

Seriously, it's killing the medium. It's all about the hype and, subsequently, about managing the hype. I'd love to see both gamers and media talk more about game that came out six months ago, rather than games coming out six months from now so that we could all focus on enjoying real games rather than throwing rage fits or gushing over stuff that we won't be playing for months. That way devs could work with less pressure and we could enjoy the games in more depth.
Nope.

What is killing this industry is multi million dollar marketing campaigns that sell utter bilge to the lowest common denominator and YOU expect everyone to just shut up... and not say A THING that contradicts their dollar fuelled hype machine!?!?

I DO talk about games that cam out 6 months ago, 6 years ago even! How the hell could you imply that my commenting on this is somehow to the complete exclusion of games once released.

See once a game is released it is too late.

And here is the most important thing, people make the decision to buy a game when they first hear about it. Not when they first have the opportunity to buy: first impressions.

And if a game like this sells... it's over.

No publisher will green light another game like the classic hitman they will ALL say:

"well Hitman 1-4 didn't sell very well. Then it ditched all that stupid plotting stuff and made a cool predatory stealth clone and look how much money it made! See, voting with wallets, just like democracy. You believe in democracy?"


As Extra Credits said, nothing bad ever came of a medium by talking about it and trying to understand it.

I think I am coming to understand what is going on here.

Hitman was always a very cool series but it was hard, you needed to have patience and think clearly with depth and breadth which turned many people off to spite how cool it looked. Now it is turning into a homicidal Arkham Asylum rip off... I can see how certain people would think this is a good thing. Even though if fucks over the fans that are the only reason the franchise ever got to 4 games.
 

[email protected]

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Noelveiga said:
Noelveiga said:
Noelveiga said:
yeah having your hand held by the game IS NOT a lovely design choice it cripples the game and makes it feel linear maybe you should play mario brothers instead?
Wait, now Mario Bros is an example of *bad* game design?

Wow.

I mean, really. Wow.

Seriously, kids these days. I feel like someboy told me to go watch some of those crappy Murnau films because I expressed a dislike for Transformers 3.
no i was saying obviously you wanted something with less of a challenge and more linear.. maybe instead running down a hallway would suit you more?
No, you were blatantly trolling and accidentally said something rather stupid and made a fool of yourself.

Still not impressed, but come on? Mario as a linear, not challenging, poorly designed game? You really need to rethink your standards there.

For the record, I never thought of Hitman as being particularly *hard*. It could be confusing at times, but rarely difficult.
well, firstly i'd like to rebut your claims that i was ''trolling'' i was stating you seem to want a game to lay some bread crumbs in front of you and put a ''KILL HERE'' sign on all the 'bad guys' and i'm also guessing you prefer the game to give you cookies and milk before bed time too?, also when did i say Mario was poorly designed if you're going to argue with someone it's best you don't put words in the other persons mouth...
Ah, but see, I'm not arguing with you. I was talking to someboy else. And obviously I have no interest in convincing you that you were trolling. That makes no sense. You're trying to convince me that you weren't trolling, and that isn't an argument, either. Also, I'm not convinced. So, there.
...this is just getting redundant
 

Hartmansgrad

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This would be palletable if they weren't milking a liscence for it's fanbase. Oh and if other devs weren't turning fan favourites into so much mush. At least they will have no one but themselves to blame if they Duke Nukem Forever.
 

lostzombies.com

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Yes, ignore the input of the people you are trying to sell your game to...and watch it be in the bargin bin 4 months after launch.
 

Booze Zombie

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I think there's a better solution to make your game more friendly than... PAINTING THE LINEAR ROUTES ON THE FUCKING FLOOR! I hate that so much in games!

Tell me where I need to go, show it to me on a map I can access at any time and let me use my eyes and brain.
 

Amphoteric

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Developers should always focus on their hardcore fans first and then make it accessiable to other groups after that.

Also Hitman is a fucking puzzle game, why the hell would you tell the players what to do. That makes absolutely no sense at all.