IO Refuses To Be "Dictated To" by Fans
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Hey, Hitman Absolution might be a good game.Raiyan 1.0 said:
But it it seems it could only possibly be a good predatory-stealth game, not a good "silent assassin" type of game.
Again I may very well buy this game, but in the same sense that Bioshock is a "spiritual sequel"; Absolution may be a canonical sequel to Blood Money but NOT a spiritual sequel!
I am NOT calling for a boycott... if anything I want recognition from the developers that they are abandoning the classic Hitman gameplay and they should invite others to try the same thing without fearing allegations of plagiarism.
So much for Absolution being a good game. Good job taking away what the players loved and turning the game into a barrel of shit.
Can you really not see how they could come from a DMC fan raging on about the new DMC?Treblaine said:
-"That's why I think they are doing this, they are whoring out Dante to be another God of War clone"
-"This will kill DMC as we know it"
-"Now it is turning into a homicidal God of War rip off"
-"Even though if fucks over the fans that are the only reason the franchise ever got to 4 games." (I didn't even have to change that last one)
The similarities are eerie.
I can't make any judge one way or another on the game because it's "too early to call." There's no problem with waiting just a bit longer for some more comprehensive evidence.
It's never to early to simply talk about a game. It's too early to talk about how a game will suck already from very little to go by.
I actually recognised the sarcasm (though you really should finish sarcasm comment with a "[/sarc]" or something like that). I'm just giving my "on the other hand".Raiyan 1.0 said:
I don't like how Absolution is trying to be like Arkham Asylum/Conviction... but I actually kinda liked those games. So if Absolution succeeds in what it is trying to do I should like it as well.
But I won't love it.
I don't think it is a good use of talent
It is a wasted opportunity
And ultimately I don't appreciate IO fucking us around acting like this is the Classic Hitman we love.
The devs seem to have failed to realise how less of one thing, can create more of something better.
-Hitman's poor hand-to-hand combat and shooting forced you to use subterfuge and cunning
-The unaided objective forced you to THINK about the level, really look and soak it in. Not just rush past following markers.
Splinter Cell really had done as much as it could have done, and Arkham Asylum came from almost nothing.
IO still had something with Hitman that peaked and suggested so much more with Blood Money, now they are squandering that.
But I will NOT be so arrogant to say this automatically makes the game bad, or that I won't buy it on that principal nor that it should be boycotted.
Look, I'm not saying if it is going to be a "good" or "bad" game.Jumplion said:
I LIKE predatory stealth games, i may very well like Absolution if they do it right, I'm not calling for a boycott are saying i won't buy it.
What I am saying is that this is not following what Hitman is supposed to be
This is where I differed from DMC fanboys, I will still give Absolution a chance JUST as a game. But not as a true Hitman game, which it clearly is not.
Sure, I am mad how they are using the Hitman name for this in such a cheap way and honestly I'd prefer if they just created a new IP for this new approach. Or here is an idea: young Agent 47.
-he's is less wise yet stronger in youth, he is going to depend more on brawn than brains
-It would excuse having a different voice actor as David Bateson does not sound like a 20 year old
-add in some element like he is still under Ort-Meyer's command with some sort of "remote control" literally guiding him to his objectives (explains the highlighting/paths)... as he is a young clone he doesn't know all the tricks yet
-use this as a throwback for fans and an introduction to new fans, teach them the ropes... as missions progress Agent 47 learns the value of being a true silent assassin. Where he gets his iconic suit and learns to be a gentleman assassin... not just a thug in the shadows.
At the moment all signs point to Absolution being a semi-retcon. It follows the over-arching plot but seems to have a devolution in character, it really should have been matched with a a throwback to earlier in his career.
This is me talking about the game.
I'm not just saying "it will be terrible" (though I do worry considering certain track records)
I'm not calling for a boycott
Alright, I can already see the reactions to my comment, but here goes: I think that this trend of making games more casual isn't something as horrible as it seems, first of all, wider demographics mean more buyers, more buyers result in more games being made and just because those easier games are bad doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad because they are easy. People that call themselves hardcore gamers and say that games shouldn't be made for casual gamers too are simply unwilling to accept evolution, and the example I'm going to give is probably going against a lot of people: I, for one, enjoyed Dragon Age 2's gameplay more than Dragon Age: Origins, why? because I didn't have to nitpick every single battle and every single party member's position every time an ogre charged into the scene, and for one I found it more enjoyable because it was much more simple to explain to a new-comer in the world of games, my girlfriend, after which she finished the game and I enjoyed talking with her about our decisions in the game and the different plot lines. I guess that what I'm trying to say is that just because a game is made for a wider audience and has an easier gameplay doesn't mean it's bad, a game having awful controls, bad writing and voice acting, unimaginative graphics and retarded puzzles means it's bad. To make it clear, I'm not saying that Origins was bad either, just that I would have enjoyed it a bit more if it were also made for people not trying to play an RTS and a RPG at the same time.
Good on you, IO. Now I might actually be able to play a Hitman game and be totally lost looking for the one "good" way to do it. I think the colored paths will actually help me experiment instead of finding what one thing works and do it over and over again.
Plus the paths might converge so you could do half of it one way and half another.
Plus the paths might converge so you could do half of it one way and half another.
i thought the hitman games were broad enough in their difficulty already; you can go in guns blazing and beat the game easy enough, or you can challenge yourself to get a better score by being stealthy and creative. why would you need to make the OPTIONAL challenge portion of the game easier to reach a broader audience? your giving a hint system to a part of the game that wont be used by the people who need it.
at any rate, i do agree with him on the issue of fan input, mostly as a counter to bioware's blatant fanservice of late. they should consider the fans GENERAL feelings on certain aspects of the game, but never anything too specific (like whether a bird-alien or faceless nerd-fantasy girl should be romanceable in the next game...). devs need to know the difference between fans voicing their opinions and fans trying to tailor the game to their specific tastes.
and with that said, this issue doesnt even apply to the breadcrumb trail feature. no one is offering some specific alternative or saying what should be put in its place, the fans are simply saying they dont like it; its up to the experienced and educated developers to figure out how to fix it. the hitman series was never that successful as far as i can remember, so i can understand changing it a bit, but as ive stated, the breadcrumb trail wouldnt make much sense in the 'optional creativity' environment of the previous games, so it seems to me that they might be switching gears completely and going for a more splinter cell-esque stealth game, and the possibility of such a change in style is the real issue i think.
at any rate, i do agree with him on the issue of fan input, mostly as a counter to bioware's blatant fanservice of late. they should consider the fans GENERAL feelings on certain aspects of the game, but never anything too specific (like whether a bird-alien or faceless nerd-fantasy girl should be romanceable in the next game...). devs need to know the difference between fans voicing their opinions and fans trying to tailor the game to their specific tastes.
and with that said, this issue doesnt even apply to the breadcrumb trail feature. no one is offering some specific alternative or saying what should be put in its place, the fans are simply saying they dont like it; its up to the experienced and educated developers to figure out how to fix it. the hitman series was never that successful as far as i can remember, so i can understand changing it a bit, but as ive stated, the breadcrumb trail wouldnt make much sense in the 'optional creativity' environment of the previous games, so it seems to me that they might be switching gears completely and going for a more splinter cell-esque stealth game, and the possibility of such a change in style is the real issue i think.
"We're catering for a large spectrum of players from the most-ultra hardcore to the people who play third-person games"
I found this intensely amusing for some reason, especially the last part. He's basically saying "GoW and the like are casual games, or at least the exact opposite of hardcore". I don't really disagree, but I'm sure a whole lot of other people do, particularly the kids who only play M-rated games for mature gamers like themselves.
I found this intensely amusing for some reason, especially the last part. He's basically saying "GoW and the like are casual games, or at least the exact opposite of hardcore". I don't really disagree, but I'm sure a whole lot of other people do, particularly the kids who only play M-rated games for mature gamers like themselves.
I disagree to an enormous degree. It's not Ninja Theory's fault that the fans cannot accept change. Fans are so opposed to everything developers do. It's pathetic.Kevlar Eater said:
#1 no one is calling for a boycottsunpop said:
#2 we all watched jimquisition
As to resolve of gamers... who the hell bought Other M? I saw that game in a £5 bargain bin just a month after launched for £30. Sometimes you don't need a boycott, the game will fail all by itself.
Right..
The points Blystad brings across when comparing the old and the new are overly simplified. The question of 'where do I go' was trial and error at times, but for the most part you could easily make decisions based on the map, the setting of the level and using your noggin.
Also, I have never ever experienced a level where choosing the wrong door has gotten me insta-killed (No, not even the final part of the white house level in blood money. That door was the right one and it was not random).
What was a problem in previous games was a frankly atrocious a.i (especially in combat!) and whacky ballistics. The first which they had gradually been improving in game after game (as opposed to the second one that they instead brought over to other games..).
I'm guessing that "wide spectrum" really needs a hand to hold.
There might be room for a peripheral there btw.
So, we have these weird changes (that might work) combined with the utter nonsense ones (that never will). Like 47 not voicing 47.
Am I the only one thinking that the main reason for all these changes are because of Square Enix rather than any wish to advance the series?
The points Blystad brings across when comparing the old and the new are overly simplified. The question of 'where do I go' was trial and error at times, but for the most part you could easily make decisions based on the map, the setting of the level and using your noggin.
Also, I have never ever experienced a level where choosing the wrong door has gotten me insta-killed (No, not even the final part of the white house level in blood money. That door was the right one and it was not random).
What was a problem in previous games was a frankly atrocious a.i (especially in combat!) and whacky ballistics. The first which they had gradually been improving in game after game (as opposed to the second one that they instead brought over to other games..).
I'm guessing that "wide spectrum" really needs a hand to hold.
There might be room for a peripheral there btw.
So, we have these weird changes (that might work) combined with the utter nonsense ones (that never will). Like 47 not voicing 47.
Am I the only one thinking that the main reason for all these changes are because of Square Enix rather than any wish to advance the series?
It would be so awesome if it actually was Patrick Bateman that had voiced 47. Can you imagine how he would react if he suddenly had to audition for a role he considered himself a shoe-in for?Treblaine said:
As long as I can fiber wire some people, I'm good. I don't see where they are going with the navigation system. From Silent Assassin up there were marked rooms on the map that contained things of interest, sniper rifles, bombs, poison, etc. Your targets were also shown on the map. I really don't see how this can be that much different. It is just a different way of doing things. As long as they don't make it as obvious as 'go here to hide from guards' I don't see how IO can screw it up.
Judge the game when it is released, not before.
Judge the game when it is released, not before.
Well you know, IO, the fans ARE what made you. And you KNEW that changing the franchise that we fans have come to know and love would result in backlash. (I mean, come on, it doesn't take a fucking consultant to know that.) Then, when the backlash happens, you tell us that you don't want to be "dictated to".
They said it wrong, really. Had I been IO's spokesperson, I would have said it like this:
"While we here at IO Interactive have always believed in listening to our fanbases, including the Hitman fanbases ... yes there are more than one (chuckles), we also believe in following our instincts and doing what we feel can appease everyone, from the hardcore fan who has been with us since the first Hitman game was announced, to the newbie who has never heard of Hitman until now."
But honestly, I have no idea why they need to add a route system. It was that overwhelming sense of "okay ... what should I do" that made Hitman: Blood Money one of my top 5 favorite games. Being dumped in a large setting not knowing what to do and finding out the hard way what does and doesn't work and improvising in this unfamiliar territory when your carefully laid out plan backfires and the shit hits the fan is what makes Hitman a fucking classic. God, I have so many great stories from Blood Money ... and most of them are about when things went wrong! How many games do you play where the fun is in trying to correct your mistakes and by doing so making even BIGGER mistakes! That domino effect of things going wrong and trial and error is what makes the game great!
I'm worried that adding a route system will take away that "lost in an unfamiliar and hostile place" mechanic will make the game too simple. I mean, really, maybe that works for another game, but not Hitman.
Anyway, kudos if anyone has actually read this far. +1 internets, I suppose.
Also, I want to make a prediction: The game will release, critics will give it good reviews, newcomers will like it, but anyone who enjoyed the previous games will hate it's simplicity. IO will realize their foolish mistake and the next Hitman game will be closer to Blood Money, which they mention often. You heard it here.
They said it wrong, really. Had I been IO's spokesperson, I would have said it like this:
"While we here at IO Interactive have always believed in listening to our fanbases, including the Hitman fanbases ... yes there are more than one (chuckles), we also believe in following our instincts and doing what we feel can appease everyone, from the hardcore fan who has been with us since the first Hitman game was announced, to the newbie who has never heard of Hitman until now."
But honestly, I have no idea why they need to add a route system. It was that overwhelming sense of "okay ... what should I do" that made Hitman: Blood Money one of my top 5 favorite games. Being dumped in a large setting not knowing what to do and finding out the hard way what does and doesn't work and improvising in this unfamiliar territory when your carefully laid out plan backfires and the shit hits the fan is what makes Hitman a fucking classic. God, I have so many great stories from Blood Money ... and most of them are about when things went wrong! How many games do you play where the fun is in trying to correct your mistakes and by doing so making even BIGGER mistakes! That domino effect of things going wrong and trial and error is what makes the game great!
I'm worried that adding a route system will take away that "lost in an unfamiliar and hostile place" mechanic will make the game too simple. I mean, really, maybe that works for another game, but not Hitman.
Anyway, kudos if anyone has actually read this far. +1 internets, I suppose.
Also, I want to make a prediction: The game will release, critics will give it good reviews, newcomers will like it, but anyone who enjoyed the previous games will hate it's simplicity. IO will realize their foolish mistake and the next Hitman game will be closer to Blood Money, which they mention often. You heard it here.