Is America going to collapse?

Dancingman

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Lyx said:
To those who think that "america is recovering": Your "recovery" is powered by.... hmm, no, not even air.... i think it's belief. Like those riders in comics, that continue to ride, if they don't realized yet that they have no horse anymore. Your economic health is a simulation, sponsored by the fed.
Hello Mr. Friedman...

But see that's sort of the thing... we're posting GDP growth, and we have been for three quarters, semantics be damned that's recovery. And I disagree, belief is the one thing investors DON'T have back yet, this despite rock bottom interest rates and a ton of money ready to be lent for those who can claim it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink...

Also show me evidence of how Ben Bernanke, Barack Obama, and all sorts of other people who have forgotten more about economics than most of us will ever know are incorrect?
 

Ossian

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Dancingman said:
Admiral. :salutes:

And news outlets really really are doing the country wrong by being such fear mongers. If people believe the eco is better, they'll buy more, and than people will hire more, and people can go back to their lives.
 
Feb 9, 2011
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I'm going to go with no. We've been down this very same road many times and we're still here. We're better off now than we were just a few years ago.
 

Sonic Doctor

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Jan 9, 2010
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Ossian said:
I feel you. I'm in the same boat, except that I'm at the already out of college point with no place that will hire me.

I would ask you, how many jobs have you held?

The reason I ask is that with the way the employers are these days, you are only going to get a job for two reasons:

1.) You have already been in the work force for a good bit, 5 years minimum, 3 years if you are lucky. They value people that have experience, doesn't matter if the person they are hiring is dumber than a box of rocks and hasn't been to college, they will hire that person because they have a work history.

2.) You could be fresh out of high school with no work history, but still get hired if you have connections within a company. (I've seen that shit way too many times.)

Now I've only had one job at a grocery store for two different summers. The reason I can't get hired is because of that.

I did graduate from college with a B.S., but it doesn't matter because employers look at education last. If you don't have the experience in the front, you aren't going to get hired. Even if the experience they are looking for is experience that you got in college, it won't matter. I guarantee that what you will encounter is that 9 out of 10 employers are going spit on your college record and tell you it is worth crap. The other one in that list will push your college aside and say, "Well to us, your 4 years of college counts as 2 years of experience, but we are looking for 3 years of experience, so sorry we can't hire you.

The problem I'm running into is that I'm even having trouble getting in simple retail or other not education required jobs because I do have an education. They get intimidated that I can actually think an point out problems in there systems. They want somebody that is brain-dead stupid that won't ask questions.

One pointer I will give you, if you get called in for some retail job interview, let's say stocking shelves at Wal-Mart. Don't come dressed in your best, go in with whatever dirty mess you might have on the floor. True story, I came into Wal-Mart interview dressed nice. I have some experience stocking shelves. Next to me was some teenager with jeans that had holes in it, a hole in his shirt and stains all over. I asked the kid if he had ever had a job, he said no. Not long after the interview, I found out they hired the kid over me. I had the experience and looked proper. But that was the problem, at places like Wal-Mart, they want people that are uneducated, people that they can quickly initiate and keep under their fingers.

Just keep looking, I always say, "I'm bound to find someone that actually has a brain and will hire me." Seriously, the hiring system that employers have these days isn't a real hiring system. Just remember college will mean nothing if you don't have years of experience. Knowledge and experience from college =/= Experience in the real messed up world. If you see an internship in something you are wanting to do, do your best get it. But with how hard it is to get internships these days, you are most likely going to have to bribe, cheat, and kill to get it, and practically know the internship exists before the people that are selecting for it know that it exists.
 

Calcium

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Ossian said:
Again, its not just me. How is the nation's Poverty stricken families going to get to work when they spend $5 a gallon on gas to get to work? Maybe its worse where I am, as Florida has never been all that great.
Well, in Scotland it's £1.29 a litre where I live, and taking the exchange rate at £1 = $1.6 dollars and a gallon to be 3.78 litres that makes fuel here $7.80 a gallon... (assuming I did the maths correctly)

Between ridiculous insurance for younger drivers and the fuel cost there's no way I'm getting a car. Will stick to public transport I think.
 

Maclennan

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Yea, don't worry too much France has much higher unemployment and isn't in danger of collapse yet. I see China running into trouble soon, the one child policy has been in place for close to thirty years now so their age demographic is going to start deteriorating and even if they reverse it the gender demographic is a strong male majority. I predict India surpassing China in the next 20 years.
 

RanD00M

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I find it funny that I live in a small town in the middle of nowhere, Iceland. And yet, even if I wanted to quit school and get a job, I easily could. Because the job market is open in these small communities. Even with the economy in the shitter.
 

Lyx

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Dancingman said:
Also show me evidence of how Ben Bernanke, Barack Obama, and all sorts of other people who have forgotten more about economics than most of us will ever know are incorrect?
Uh, they haven't forgotten :) They just by now have such a mess, that they are beyond the point of no return, and figure "If we'll burn anyways, it doesn't matter anymore how hot it will get."

How do you think politicians react, when they cannot prevent something anymore, and are tasked with the decision, if they either let 1 ton of shit hit the fan ON PURPOSE NOW, or if instead they preach to the sheep that everything will be fine and that they're helping, while knowing but not saying that then later 5 tons of shit will hit the fan?

People don't vote for people who let bad "karma" just happen. Lobbies don't pay people who let bad "karma" just happen. People vote, and lobbies pay, for people who promise good things, and who at least in the short-term make things nice. Dentists don't become politicians.
 

TheGuiggleMonster

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Feb 11, 2011
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The answer is to stop living in small towns and move into large cities. Transport is easier in cities and the economy can change in size far more quickly. People are more efficient with fuel in bigger groups. Big businesses prefer to establish themselves in large cities. I'm sure the economy will get better but it seems as though China and India have lots of factories because unskilled labour is cheap there so the USA will have to focus more on software and inventing or innovating to make new products which can't be made with unskilled labour. Look at Germany or Japan. Finding people to do these kinds of jobs is also easier in cities. Japan and Germany each have several video game developers which export in the form of software all over the world. They both also make things like cars, musical instruments and washing machines. These can't be made easily with unskilled labour. Sweden is also a good example. Notch has made several hundred thousand dollars which, if spent in Sweden, could create a handfull of permanent jobs. If everyone in the USA was like Notch, the USA would be many times richer than China.
 

Sonic Doctor

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Jan 9, 2010
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ninjastovall0 said:
you can get a part time job without school, lower your standards man.
Dude, I have a college education and I can't even get a part-time job. I can't even get a job at freaking McDonald's, even when they are hiring. Standards mean nothing.

Ossian said:
Can't get a job without school > can't go to school without a job > can't get a job without a car > can't get a car without a job.

I know I already quoted you just a few minutes ago, but I'm going to change your little list there from what I've experienced.

1.) Can't get a job without school.(This is what we are told before going to college.)

2.) Once out of school: Can't get a job without experience(school doesn't count)

3.) Can't get experience without a job.

Once you get out of college it is run around full circle, no experience, no job, no job, no experience.

Now on your comment that you can't go to school without a job, that isn't true. I went to school without a job, it's called loans. In order to go to college you have to take on a huge amount of debt, there is no way around it unless you are rich.

The problem is, you run into mine and just about every other college student that graduates, once the loans come due for repayment, we have no money because we can't get a job.
 

Dancingman

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Lyx said:
Dancingman said:
Also show me evidence of how Ben Bernanke, Barack Obama, and all sorts of other people who have forgotten more about economics than most of us will ever know are incorrect?
Uh, they haven't forgotten :) They just by now have such a mess, that they are beyond the point of no return, and figure "If we'll burn anyways, it doesn't matter anymore how hot it will get."

How do you think politicians react, when they cannot prevent something anymore, and are tasked with the decision, if they either let 1 ton of shit hit the fan ON PURPOSE NOW, or if instead they preach to the sheep that everything will be fine and that they're helping, while knowing but not saying that then later 5 tons of shit will hit the fan?

People don't vote for people who let bad "karma" just happen. Lobbies don't pay people who let bad "karma" just happen. People vote, and lobbies pay, for people who promise good things, and who at least in the short-term make things nice. Dentists don't become politicians.
Okay... so your argument is that the government is completely and hopelessly controlled by election politics and things like that? Are there any hard statistics to prove that there isn't recovery though or that it's just a farce?

You could make arguments, furthermore, that the government NEEDS to reassure the populace in troubled times such as this. Sure the worst is over, but the people sure aren't feeling all that recovered. Would you rather have all those tasty investment dollars sitting in people's savings accounts or back in the market? So yes, the so-called sheep may afraid. But is that to say that you do not feel fear or uncertainty like they do? Could it possibly be forgiven for people who have lost their jobs to be a little depressed at the state of things? FDR's New Deal may have boosted the GDP, it may have put people back to work, but it gave the average American confidence and hope. The New Deal ended, and the war ended, but economic growth did not, that says something about the psyche of the American people.

Also, the traditionally most decisive factor in affecting the outcome of any recession is generally the Federal Reserve. No elections to affect their decisions, no legislature to muck around with before taking policy. They talk with the president, make sure policy is coordinated, and get to work. The Federal Reserve is an independent branch of government, it does not fear the election, the bureaucrat, or the lobbyist, and that's why Bernanke was able to act so decisively in the taking of steps to counter the recession.

So yes, the Federal Reserve, probably the most important economic position outside of the legislative branch, is your dentist in government.
 

meowchef

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Oct 15, 2009
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There is 0% chance of America collapsing.

The day that happens is the day the rest of the world collapses as well.
 

Randomorific

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Feb 24, 2011
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Well the whole petrol (gas) price thing doesnt sound overly problematic as you mentioned you live like 20 mins drive away from the nearest town so whilst the price is probably high, you are possibly using a bit more than others, also the whole minivan thing doesnt help as there not renowned for there fuel economy. Petrol prices have also been very high in the UK for some time now and whilst it causes bitching, people still manage to get by so I'm assuming you will cope as well.
Also the whole you not getting a job thing, well its tough to get a part time job in a shop anywhere in the UK becuase of the sheer number of people going to college or university and inevitably there are going to be fewer jobs if even a small number of shops close, also as other have said experience is always key to getting jobs.
America wont "go down" to the degree that you think it will largely cos its a key economic player and there are many other countires that have been historically much worse off economically - Hungary in the late 40's and indeed are worse of now, e.g Zimbabwe. Also there are going to be less jobs available in general in the USA and any developed country due the advancement in computers and the shrinking of production that goes on in these countires, with most of the labour being outsourced to China and Brazil etc.
So no, America wont die, things will change but there is really no chance of a complete economic collapse as if things do really take a nose dive there are plenty of other countries to lend a hand.

EDIT: Sorry forgot to mention, if the only issue with the bike ride is the sun then just put on a little bit of sun cream, sorry sun block or whatever it is Americans call it, sorry I cant remember right now. But if the problem with the ride is also the ridiculous length then I cant help you, except maybe I dunno hang glide off the roof of your house or something.
 

Danik93

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Aug 11, 2009
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Americas economists are incompetent fools... They put the short term luxuries in front of long term plans. I mean Americas GDP is 14 trillion and the national debt is 14 trillion... coincidence i think not!it increases everyday. I mean you loan money from China for the purpose to buy stuff from China... Anyone understands that it's stupid!
 

Verlander

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Apr 22, 2010
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Nothing lasts forever You're in a better position than most countries, so all that's happening is the gravy train you've been living is going to end, and your politics and attitudes ill need to change with it
 

unoleian

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Jul 2, 2008
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lacktheknack said:
BreakfastMan said:
If America collapses, it is taking the whole world with it, and I do not think that anyone wants that. So, yes, I think we are going to survive, at least for a while longer.
Actually, everyone will just turn to the EU and China. No one country is so important that it takes the entire world with it when it commits suicide.
Perhaps not collapse, but you better believe the entire world will suffer right alongside us, for a good long while.

The world's markets tie to our markets. Every rumble in our financial sector sends shakes across the entire world's finances. It won't behead them, but it'll certainly geld them. *winces*