Is it that hard to find a virgin?

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SmashingTime

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"(I) Don't smoke
Don't drink
Don't fuck
At least I can fucking think

I can't keep up
Can't keep up
Can't keep up
Out of step with the world"

When I was 15, listening to Minor Threat provided me with a pretty flimsy ideology to cling to, in the guise of "straight-edge", which really only served to blind me from the fact that I was in serious loser-denial. The true reasons behind my abstinence were that I was too lame to have friends who smoked, too young to drink, and too ugly to fuck. Give the Complete Discography CD to any weak-link teenager and it won't be long before they're drawing X's on their hands and wearing Black Flag tees underneath their school uniform.
 

Geo Da Sponge

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peruvianskys said:
lizards said:
im so tired of this: grow up

women have sex, this is fact, just because one has doesnt make her dirty or unworthy or whatever else you think, some of the best women have just had one stupid night or were decieved into loving someone

furthermore what does it even matter? unless their is some phyiscal or mental mark they have it shouldnt even be taken into account
I'm surprised how few people have responded this way; seriously, what is it about a woman being sexually active in the past that tarnishes her soul in such a way that you would never go for her?

The submissive, sheltered "good girl" is not a standard that you have any right to hold women up to. Treat them like people and accept that sometimes they do adult things whether you can control it or not.
"The submissive, sheltered "good girl" is not a standard that you have any right to hold women up to."

I'm fairly sure it is when he maintains (or at least tries to) that same standard himself. At least, it's a standard he can hold them up to for the purpose of choosing someone to date and potentially fall in love with. Why is the immediate assumption that he's looking for a girl to be submissive because they're a virgin? Since he himself intends to remain a virgin, is he not allowed to desire the same thing from his partner? Is it wrong to not start a relationship because you consider each other sexually incompatible, in this case because you want to be with someone who will remain a virgin just as you will?

In this thread I've seen a lot of calls that the OP is judgemental or hypocritcal, but I have seen no signs that he is either of these things. At no point has he said that others should behave the same way as he does or else they'll be 'wrong'.
 

Majorlagger

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khantron said:
Death God said:
khantron said:
Death God said:
khantron said:
So why is it virginity
Death God said:
walrusaurus said:
I think the biggest issue i have with the "must be virgins" crowd, is that they treat sex like its something dirty to be ashamed of. Which is particularly ironic since they believe its a gift from god. I've seen people totally abandoned by their friends just because they "fell into sin." It's hypocritical and cruel, and it disgusts me. One of many reasons i'm not a christian.
I don't think it is dirty and shameful. I think it should have some meaning to it. Almost everyone of my friends have had sex before and I don't mind in the least. My moral doesn't come from any church, it comes from the background of my entire family getting pregnant and having a child before 17. I am the only person in my whole family who is 18 and has not got somebody knocked up which is a major accomplishment for me.
So why is it virginity and not that she has a kid, where you draw the line?
Because once you lose it the first time, it is hard to never have it again. And once you start having sex a lot, it will eventually lead to a kid.
Not if you get an abortion. Problem solved.
Don't believe in abortion unless a woman is raped. Again, not a religious thing; personal belief.
It's a legitimate medical procedure that allows a woman to exert greater control over her own body. I don't think a woman should be forced to have a baby just because she consented to sex, especially since childbirth is fairly dangerous. But maybe I'm the crazy one.
so not to open a can, but you dont think if she consented that maybe she should have thought about protection of some sort?
 

drummond13

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There are lots of wonderful people who drink, have sex, and occasionally smoke. I think you should look past these things. You're certainly going to have to more and more once you get through high school.
 

axlryder

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Vanguard_Ex said:
Hmmm...this sounds a little flawed to me.

Please don't take offence to this, but you not wanting somebody simply for having sex before as part of a 'moral system' comes across as almost a little selfish. What I basically hear is that they're somehow worth less (note: not saying worthless) if they've chosen to sleep with somebody despite the fact this could be before they even knew you as a person. It sounds less about morals and more about, well...almost immaturity, which I don't mean in the personal insult sense.

Again, I don't mean that harshly, I used to be similar. You kind of learn to accept these things though.
I think the problem is that promiscuity, smoking and drinking are three of the most common, if not the three most common vices you'll find in people. Therefore finding someone who resists all three is, well, quite improbable. Not impossible, mind.
I'd say you could be wrong to view it that way (I don't know because I don't know this guys rational for following said moral system). Finding someone who has intentionally maintained their abstinence, to me anyway, is more about looking for someone who shares similar sexual views with me. That is, (in my case) as something sacred to be shared between two people who are in a very serious relationship. Sex, especially the first time, has profound psychological implications and isn't something to be casually trifled about with (imo). To have sex means you probably view sex as something you can do with anyone you're in a relationship with or you didn't have the forethought/patience to realize your relationship might not have lasted. Of course if you've had sex recreationally, than clearly we're not on the same page in terms of values. Maintaining abstinence also says loads about someone's self control (that is, if they believe it is something that SHOULD be maintained). That's not to say that one looking for abstinence in a partner should automatically reject someone just because they HAVE had sex once or so (I mean, if she was in a long term and thought she was going the distance, what do you expect? I certainly made that mistake myself. Or maybe she was emotionally coerced/manipulated. Maybe she got drunk. Maybe she was raped. Point is, there's always exceptions to everything), though I'd also think they're justified in looking for a virgin. I'm sure there are other good reasons as well.

In short, to me sex is powerful, beautiful, dangerous and sacred. It's not something that should be taken lightly and virginity in a partner indicates they most likely share similar views to my own. Of course, TALKING to the person is really the best way to figure out where you stand in relation to one another.

There's also the alternative interpretation. That is, you're concerned about the size of your member and want your girl to have nothing to compare it to.
 

khantron

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Majorlagger said:
khantron said:
Death God said:
khantron said:
Death God said:
khantron said:
So why is it virginity
Death God said:
walrusaurus said:
I think the biggest issue i have with the "must be virgins" crowd, is that they treat sex like its something dirty to be ashamed of. Which is particularly ironic since they believe its a gift from god. I've seen people totally abandoned by their friends just because they "fell into sin." It's hypocritical and cruel, and it disgusts me. One of many reasons i'm not a christian.
I don't think it is dirty and shameful. I think it should have some meaning to it. Almost everyone of my friends have had sex before and I don't mind in the least. My moral doesn't come from any church, it comes from the background of my entire family getting pregnant and having a child before 17. I am the only person in my whole family who is 18 and has not got somebody knocked up which is a major accomplishment for me.
So why is it virginity and not that she has a kid, where you draw the line?
Because once you lose it the first time, it is hard to never have it again. And once you start having sex a lot, it will eventually lead to a kid.
Not if you get an abortion. Problem solved.
Don't believe in abortion unless a woman is raped. Again, not a religious thing; personal belief.
It's a legitimate medical procedure that allows a woman to exert greater control over her own body. I don't think a woman should be forced to have a baby just because she consented to sex, especially since childbirth is fairly dangerous. But maybe I'm the crazy one.
so not to open a can, but you dont think if she consented that maybe she should have thought about protection of some sort?
Protection fails occasionally. And even if she didn't use protection that doesn't mean she loses the right to her own body does it? And I love open cans.
 

That One Fellow

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Forgive if this sounds harsh, but, are you bringing up something to discuss. Or confiding in total strangers on the internet? One would hope the former...but it's ghastly close to the latter. Good day to you.
 

Mad World

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khantron said:
Yeah then I guess that isn't me. I think sex is a fun activity among consenting adults and money is good so long as it is a means to survival and a bit comfort rather than an end in and of itself. I just thought I detected a religious understanding of morals, which my abortion comment would likely trigger.
I agree about the money. Money doesn't have to be evil. I think that sex should be something that occurs after marriage, though.

I am a Christian, so a lot of what I believe it based off of Jesus' teachings. What's your abortion comment?

Edit: never mind; I see what you mean. I read the comment.

I don't hate you for your opinion on abortion. My stance is that it's simply wrong. I'm very against it.
 

Majorlagger

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seriously i find it a little funny and ironic... so many people saying he is so judgmental... he is not saying other people are wrong for doing those things... just that they are probably wrong FOR HIM. he is looking for someone who has the same values as him if he has held himself to that standard it is not unreasonable or judgmental to want his future wife (girlfriend or what have you) to have held the same standard.

the ironic part... all of you Judging him because of the standard he has chose to hold himself and his future significant other to.
 

khantron

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Mad World said:
khantron said:
Yeah then I guess that isn't me. I think sex is a fun activity among consenting adults and money is good so long as it is a means to survival and a bit comfort rather than an end in and of itself. I just thought I detected a religious understanding of morals, which my abortion comment would likely trigger.
I agree about the money. Money doesn't have to be evil. I think that sex should be something that occurs after marriage.

I am a Christian, so a lot of what I believe it based off of Jesus' teachings. What's your abortion comment?
My comment was that it is a legitimate medical procedure that is important to a woman's bodily autonomy.
 

Calatar

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I understand where you're coming from. I'm fairly conservative with regards to those kind of ideals as well. I was lucky enough to find a girl who fit nearly all of them. In retrospect though, it was a bit immature. If you're planning on making a commitment to really caring about somebody, then you have to look at a person in their entirety. Singular actions don't define them, unless they make it define them. If a person has taken drugs, it doesn't make them an addict. If a person has tried smoking, it doesn't make them a smoker. If a person has had sex in the past, it does not make them a slut.

Many people experiment, but it's the continuity of action that really counts. If a person continues to smoke, they show that either they are extremely ignorant of health risks, dismissive of the harm they're causing, or just plain addicted.
But just trying it once out of curiosity? Stupid, IMO, but curiosity gets the best of many people.

For alcohol, it's more subjective. It doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of judgement, but it could. Drinking makes you more prone to other risky behaviors. But certain people can drink in moderation safely. Trying alcohol, however? Considering reaching legal drinking age is considered a milestone in our society, curiosity is pretty damn understandable. This would be a foolish criteria of selectivity.

Sex is often a part of self-discovery, and given how pleasurable it is, and the cultural/individual pressure associated with it, it's pretty understandable why any person would already have had it. I think the general problem most people have with this is a sense of possession and jealousy. A vague sense as though the girl has already retroactively cheated on you, before you could even enter a relationship.

But that is immature, and kind of stupid. Easy to feel, but pretty dumb. It's who she is NOW that counts, and what she chooses to do NOW. If she wants to date you, it means that she doesn't want other guys, she wants you. Put aside feelings of personal possession and accept that she is a separate person, with a past separated from you, and separated from the present. It's the continuity of her personality which matters. If you feel as though her morals are diametrically opposed to yours, that's one thing. But think about your own motives with regards to this, and whether they're selfish or not.

It's more difficult when you're younger, but learning to temper your strong opinions with a bit of acceptance can only help. Learning that you should not judge a person by various actions taken out of context helps. Particularly when you don't have any of their context to judge them by, since you haven't done any of that experimentation you so loathe yourself.

Starting a lasting relationship requires a lot of acceptance. People don't always do things you like, but the questions are: Does the good significantly outweigh the bad? Is the bad something that you can handle? Do you think the good will stay good? Will you always be able to deal with the bad?

Learning some tolerance now would be a good idea. Think about how well-justified your ideas are, what they're based on. Eventually you'll end up infatuated, and then run smack into one of those criteria you detest. If you've thought enough to know with certainty where your acceptable boundaries lie, then it won't be as much of a dilemma then.

Actually in regards to your question though, there are many people out there still who are virgins. It's a bit of a myth that there aren't any. Chances are that they're a bit quieter about it than the people who aren't. That number will naturally dwindle in your age group as you get older though. If it really is an uncompromising criteria, then you'd better start searching now.
 

Pyromaster Muaddib

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I think the thing you're going to find hard is finding someone who has never done any of that who also meets your other requirements. Just remember everything you list as a requirement cuts out people who may have other awesome features that you are completely overlooking. There comes a time when you have to prioritize these things. For example, Things I look for in a woman are as follows: Honest, interesting, intelligent, accepting, cute. That may seem a little shallow to you but those are the things that make a girl dating material to me. Once you start adding virgin, never smoked, never done drugs, never drank in there your going to start having to sacrifice something else (no one is "perfect" after all). So the real question is are you willing to date a complete dunce over a intelligent girl because the dunce has never drank, or a girl who is completely and psychopathically opposed to your nerdiness as opposed to one who whole heartedly embraces it simply because she has never smoked pot, or a girl who is a pathological liar simply because she is a virgin (which won't matter first time you have sex anyways)?
 

khantron

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Majorlagger said:
seriously i find it a little funny and ironic... so many people saying he is so judgmental... he is not saying other people are wrong for doing those things... just that they are probably wrong FOR HIM. he is looking for someone who has the same values as him if he has held himself to that standard it is not unreasonable or judgmental to want his future wife (girlfriend or what have you) to have held the same standard.

the ironic part... all of you Judging him because of the standard he has chose to hold himself and his future significant other to.
That's the pitfall of considering judging a bad thing. You can't say judging is a bad thing because you're judging people for judging.
 

Screamarie

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24 and still a virgin. To this day I don't drink (I've had some sips of a couple of alcoholic drinks just to see what they taste like but nothing more than a single sip each), don't do drugs, and don't smoke.....honestly I'm getting to the age where I'm wondering if I should be proud of it....or sad. Very, very sad.
 

SovietX

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I'm just like you. Same views. I'm 18 and have only ever drunk 1 beer once and didn't like it. I am still a virgin, mainly by choice. I take it a little more seriously than most. Everyone in my year level has had sex at least once, often bragging about it. I would prefer to share my first time with a female who is also a virgin but I am not going to limit myself to that criteria.
 

axlryder

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Jul 29, 2011
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khantron said:
Majorlagger said:
seriously i find it a little funny and ironic... so many people saying he is so judgmental... he is not saying other people are wrong for doing those things... just that they are probably wrong FOR HIM. he is looking for someone who has the same values as him if he has held himself to that standard it is not unreasonable or judgmental to want his future wife (girlfriend or what have you) to have held the same standard.

the ironic part... all of you Judging him because of the standard he has chose to hold himself and his future significant other to.
That's the pitfall of considering judging a bad thing. You can't say judging is a bad thing because your judging people for judging.
I was about to say the identical thing. Pretty hypocritical. Seriously people, the guy made no statements about non-virgins or people who drink/do drugs. Just because he doesn't share YOUR views doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to his own or that he's being a terrible person in creating some parameters he would like a potential partner to fall within. It's not even like he's being irrational about it, he's asking on a forum if that's even realistic.

On the flip side, it's always nice to hear someone's justification for things like this. No one should really be blindly following some moral code just because. (imo) Plus, there's justifiable exceptions to pretty much everything.
 

khantron

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Mad World said:
Edit: never mind; I see what you mean. I read the comment.

I don't hate you for your opinion on abortion. My stance is that it's simply wrong. I'm very against it.
Yeah, I figured we'd be on different sides of the fetus vs woman debate.
 

Vault101

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Death God said:
whats so great about virginity? your not "corrupted" in anyway if you choose to have safe consenting sex

sex is not imoral
 

Xeraxis

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delvin313 said:
Xeraxis said:
delvin313 said:
Don't give up hope, your ideal girl is out there somewhere. I had given up hope finding the girl of my dreams, and sure enough she appeared in my life after all. Whatever your standards may be, you will find her, given time and patience.
Not to be demeaning towards you, but do you know how many times I've heard that, or something similar, from people? It annoys me how often people pull out that cliche phrasing.
So..let me get this straight. I speak from experience that there is indeed hope since it happened to me, and your first instinct is that I am being cliche? That's pretty sad, dude.
I was speaking mostly in terms of your first sentence. I never doubted your experience and am not calling YOU cliche. I'm just saying that a lot of phrases similar to the first sentence you wrote, like the whole "fish in the sea" thing, are all too familiar to me, and the more I hear them from people, the less I begin to really believe it happening for myself. Unhealthy self-doubt I must blame.

Does that make any sense? I am not placing any offense towards you.