Is punishing a kid consider abuse?

[Smiley Face]

Depends on how you define punishment. If it enters into the physical, it's crossed a line. There's the standard line that sometimes kids need to be taught a lesson - but there are non-violent ways of doing it, and as far as I'm concerned, anyone who takes the violent route is physically abusing a kid when they don't have to.

Not to mention that, in many, many cases, corporal punishment is LESS effective than other forms of punishment, and frequently doesn't work. Maybe for some kids, SOME kids, it works. But for many, myself included, it doesn't. I learn from having stuff explained to me, by giving me a reason not to do something, and every time my parents tried to punish me, I sat back, took it, and then misbehaved more to show them that crap cut no ice. Let me tell you, if my parents had ever done anything like that, I would probably be obsessed with getting payback - that kind of abuse of trust sickens me.

Seriously, how much imagination does it take to come up with a punishment OTHER than hitting a defenseless kid? Dress it up all you like, corporal punishment is just an excuse that parents use to justify taking their frustration out on their kids. There's more effective ways, there's ways that aren't just wrong.

Then there's the question of punishment in general - to that, it also depends. It's gotta be managed - there's traumatizing stuff, like the original example, there's ineffective stuff, etc. It is necessary at times though - sometimes, kids need to learn their limits, learn what is and isn't acceptable, and learn there are consequences for exceeding those limits. As to how, well, that's already been covered.

 

[BrassButtons]

Legal is one of the main reasons I feel the way I do, but it wasn't the only reason.

If the law in the US changed, would that change your opinion?

As I brought up before, the lack of scaring and permanent bruising were also reasons why I felt it was abuse.

I'm guessing that "scaring" is supposed to be "scarring" (not trying to nitpick; just want to make sure I understand what you're saying).

I understand that those are two reasons why you don't consider spanking abuse (actually I think "permanent bruising" is a new criteria). My point was that those reasons are not the entirety of why spanking is not abuse in your opinion. I've been trying to understand your full reasoning for spanking not being abusive.

So far you're criteria involves whether it's illegal in the US, leaves "permanent bruises" (which isn't actually possible--I think you just mean long-lasting bruises), causes scarring, or is a punch to the face.

Is this an accurate summation of your criteria for judging whether an action is abusive or not?

 

[Monkeyman O'Brien]

I have no problem with smacking a kid.
The sad thing about that news story is that the kid actually responded and she took it way better than half the people on here.
Sad truth is that nowadays people are absolute fucking pussies. They like to go on and on about how you are scarring a child for life if you don't buy it a fucking pony. Most cases the kid is 100% fine and will move on like nothing happened. The only time a kid will cling to simple punishments is if they were a spoiled little shit to begin with in desperate need of a good whack.

As long as you do not go overboard, try to keep the dicipline emotion free and most importantly, have set rules and set punishments already known so the kid knows exactly what to expect, then I have no problem with it whatsoever.

People just need to butt out of other peoples lives and stop trying to make everyone feel like monsters because they don't raise their kids to be fucking pussies.

 

[superbatranger]

It simply depends on the type of punishment. Giving extra chores and taking away their cellphone is not abuse. Beating them until they're bruised and bleeding is abuse.

 

[Monkeyman O'Brien]

what about people who beat kids for inconsistent things? What about people who hit their kids for no good reason at all? There are other ways to get through to them, hitting them is just primitive. People who beat their kids are just cavemen

...
What the fuck? What was the point of that comment?
That comment was on the same lines as someone saying sex between two consenting adults is fine then you coming in and asking "Well what about rape or paedophiles?"
See, maybe if your parents had hit you a little more you would stop and think about what you are saying.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Legal is one of the main reasons I feel the way I do, but it wasn't the only reason.

If the law in the US changed, would that change your opinion?

As I brought up before, the lack of scaring and permanent bruising were also reasons why I felt it was abuse.

I'm guessing that "scaring" is supposed to be "scarring" (not trying to nitpick; just want to make sure I understand what you're saying).

I understand that those are two reasons why you don't consider spanking abuse (actually I think "permanent bruising" is a new criteria). My point was that those reasons are not the entirety of why spanking is not abuse in your opinion. I've been trying to understand your full reasoning for spanking not being abusive.

So far you're criteria involves whether it's illegal in the US, leaves "permanent bruises" (which isn't actually possible--I think you just mean long-lasting bruises), causes scarring, or is a punch to the face.

Is this an accurate summation of your criteria for judging whether an action is abusive or not?

more or less those are the reasons why I don't consider it abuse. Only addition I would make is that I was spanked as a child and looking back at it I don't think it was abusive behavior.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

what about people who beat kids for inconsistent things? What about people who hit their kids for no good reason at all? There are other ways to get through to them, hitting them is just primitive. People who beat their kids are just cavemen

...
What the fuck? What was the point of that comment?
That comment was on the same lines as someone saying sex between two consenting adults is fine then you coming in and asking "Well what about rape or paedophiles?"
See, maybe if your parents had hit you a little more you would stop and think about what you are saying.

I was hit plenty as a kid, and Its kept me from ever really developing a close bond with my parents. Its just not right, in fact its fucking cowardly, hitting a tiny defenseless human being just so you can feel more powerful. If you beat your kids, then you are a scum of the earth nothing

maybe your parents didn't properly apply spanking, but mine did and I don't hate them for it, nor do I have such a emotional motivated hatred of it like you seem to have.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Where you are focusing physical contact is different, and pain=/=abuse 100% of the time. As long as the pain can be proven to not be excessive(like breaking the skin or causing bruises), it is not abuse.

I dont care what the law says, if you intentionally cause physical pain and distress in a child to get them to stop doing whatever you dont want them to do, its abuse plain & simple.
Louis C. K. said it best, children seem to be the only people on the whole planet that its ok to hit. Everyone else will sue your ass

and I don't care that you seem to have some personal vendetta against spanking, it isn't abuse if don't in moderation/in moderation.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I don't know if I was particularly dumb as a kid, but I didn't find punishments always dissuaded me from repeating a bad thing.

I do think partly it was down to my parents, and this may be a generational thing, they're 75 now, but the answer to 'why' so often was 'because I said so!'. That's an incredibly frustrating thing for a child to keep hearing when they just want to understand the world more.

A spanking wasn't going to stop me wanting to know more stuff.

Of course, I'm nearly 40 and those were different times, and I don't believe for a moment that they were abusive in any way, I just wish they'd tried to explain things more instead of just deciding they were right. (I'd probably have accepted them being right if they'd just said 'because it's dangerous' or 'because it's not police and you'll upset people'.)

I can't help but think in part it was a sign of the times, and a certain arrogance of parenting back then that parents were right about everything, and despite not agreeing with all changes, I do think it's better that children get more attention, and not just a slap

 

[EternalFacepalm]

No, spanking a child is not "beating them".

beat·ing
n.
An act of repeated hitting or striking.

How is that not spanking?

 

[Rheinmetall]

I generally believe in punishment of children as way to teach them a lesson with the hard way, only for their own protection, and to avoid repeating that mistake which could perhaps ruin their lives when they will become adults. However there is a limit for everything. The gunman father is a sad case of an uncivilized and deranged man who is very dangerous for both his family and society.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

No, spanking a child is not "beating them".

beat·ing
n.
An act of repeated hitting or striking.

How is that not spanking?

By that definition, repeated high fives to the same person could be considered "beating them".

 

[anthony87]

If you beat your kids, then you are a scum of the earth nothing

I agree.

Good thing that spanking and beating are two totally different things.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

If you beat your kids, then you are a scum of the earth nothing

I agree.

Good thing that spanking and beating are two totally different things.

^^This sssoooo much

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

maybe your parents didn't properly apply spanking, but mine did and I don't hate them for it, nor do I have such a emotional motivated hatred of it like you seem to have.

What do you call a 200 lb man who hits his defenseless 50 lb kid?

Yep, a coward. Now a 200lb man that disciplines his kid by spanking is a normal parent.

 

[BrassButtons]

more or less those are the reasons why I don't consider it abuse. Only addition I would make is that I was spanked as a child and looking back at it I don't think it was abusive behavior.

You didn't answer my first question: if US laws changed, would your opinion of spanking change?

What do you call a 200 lb man who hits his defenseless 50 lb kid?

Yep, a coward. Now a 200lb man that disciplines his kid by spanking is a normal parent.

Are you claiming that spanking is not hitting, or that kids being spanked are not defenseless?

 

[iTwitch]

why are people constantly confusing punishment with abuse in this thread? It was clearly stated in the title. Tough love is the way forward

 

[BlueMage]

I'm going to assume a few things here.

1. Most of those "oh, it's abuse!" folks, aren't parents themselves. For the record, I'm not either.

2. These same folks are assuming a spank is the first method of discipline.

On 1, fuck off.

On 2, take my word, it isn't - it's often the last, when all others have failed.

 

[Talshere]

Hell no.

I really have little else to say on the matter. I even take the view that if making your child sit gingerly for a few days from a paddled arse if the most effective way to let your displeasure at their stupidity or selfishness be known then thats what you should do.

Its parenting 101 imo. If a child proves they cannot be mature and responsible with an item you have gifted, you take it away. If she had dared give that speech to her actual parents, she would have seen immediate consequences. She is learning a very important life lesson, never say or do ANYTHING that ultimately you are not prepared to do in full public view. Cos IRL, this is what really happens. Time to grow up.

 

[Stu35]

what about people who beat kids for inconsistent things? What about people who hit their kids for no good reason at all? There are other ways to get through to them, hitting them is just primitive. People who beat their kids are just cavemen

...
What the fuck? What was the point of that comment?
That comment was on the same lines as someone saying sex between two consenting adults is fine then you coming in and asking "Well what about rape or paedophiles?"
See, maybe if your parents had hit you a little more you would stop and think about what you are saying.

I was hit plenty as a kid, and Its kept me from ever really developing a close bond with my parents. Its just not right, in fact its fucking cowardly, hitting a tiny defenseless human being just so you can feel more powerful. If you beat your kids, then you are a scum of the earth nothing

Who's talking about beating kids?

This is about discipline using corporal punishment. When I swore as a child in front of my parents, I recieved a clip round the ear.

A short, sharp, simple, and effective punishment that taught me not to swear in their earshot.

They could have done all sorts of other things - grounded me, taken away toys, etc. etc. (And for various other things I did out of line with being a decent human being, they did), but for the sake of swearing at a video game or rugby match on TV, why would they need to?


You've taken the idea of corporal punishment delivered in a fair, reasonable, safe and consistent manner (consistent as in, fitting the crime, rather than consistently getting hit, I think I got two clips round the ear for swearing and have never sworn in front of them since)... And you've changed it to "Alcoholic dad beating the shit out of his young for no reason".

Fuck you, and your straw-man argument.


For what it's worth, I think 99% of the time, there's no need to hit children. Ever. But that 1% of the time, parents should not fear the law for merely enforcing discipline.