Is Steve Jobs the 2nd Greatest Innovator of All Time?
- Thread starter Greg Tito
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There you are wrong, these are inventions, not innovations. Jobs innovated by taking something that was inefficient, unpopular, and probably was going to fail and made it good. The MP3 player by creative labs was pretty bad and not popular for a reason. The touch interface that palm did really never gained acceptance for very long (especially since you could only use a stylus). And the GUI by Xerox, seriously? They may have made it, but at best it was pretty bad. All of these things were not invented by steve jobs and instead made into a form that is actually useable. Most INNOVATORS don't fully invent, otherwise they would be INVENTORS. Again, just because you like Steve Jobs doesn't mean you can say he did not innovate, thats like saying that Edison did not innovate, or Marconi did not innovate.TheSYLOH said:
Microsoft may have won out in the end, but their operating system was extremely similar in design and function as the mac os. In fact, you could say they *gasp* stole it. In the end, had the iMac not been created, GUI would never have gained any popularity as the iMac sold pretty well despite its new design.Bevin Warren said:
uh, iTunes? That was digital distribution of music on a large scale level. No one had ever sold anything online (well, digital stuff anyways) and have it be so successful. Thanks to iTunes, people began to accept that online sales were in fact a possible and lucrative business model.Bevin Warren said:
Really? Are you sure you aren't remaining history there? To show that you are, take these statistics:Bevin Warren said:
"Since October 2004, the iPod line has dominated digital music player sales in the United States, with over 90% of the market for hard drive-based players and over 70% of the market for all types of players" -Wikipedia (not completely reliable, but the source it sites is)
So, i guess we need 100% to have a major share.
so what smart phones sold extremely well over the period of time before that sold over 10 million (ps, the iphone has sold 73 million to date, not that popular though)Bevin Warren said:
First of all, the ipad came out with some pretty good reviews, (example: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/technology/personaltech/01pogue.html?pagewanted=all)Bevin Warren said:
Yes, it doesn't sell as well as laptops, thats what happens when you release a product into a new industry. The iPad is far from a failure and still is making Apple good money.
Obviously, they are not a game developer. They simply released a product that was not fully intended to be a gaming system that has now completely re-innovated the whole mobile industry. Know why the 3DS and Vita are not reaching the insane sales of the DS? Because people are using their iPhones and smart-phones in general to play mobile games. This is like accusing Apple of never making an album or writing a book, they provide the space, people fill it.Bevin Warren said:
Try again
He doesn't need to invent anything. Innovation isn't invention. We don't renown the guy who created wireless, we renown Marconi, who perfect wireless. Being an INNOVATOR means you INNOVATE, being and INVENTOR means you INVENT. I will admit that Steve Jobs was no genius inventor, but he sure innovated the shit out of EVERYTHING.BlackStar42 said:
Plus, my point about the CDs is that their sales are dropping rapidly. iTunes has initiated a humongous upset of moving music from physical to digital.
A lot of people would disagree with you greatly that he was "jerk". That really doesn't matter in that annuls of time anyway. Jobs made a lot, he created...well you know them all. All of those products completely changed and improved their industry. Without his computers and other devises, we would not have much of the stuff we take for granted today (the mouse, online music distribution, laptops and their touch based controls ect.)Tanis said:
Because they exist today in popular culture because of Steve Jobs. He may not have invented them, but he made them possible. Xerox was never going to continue their Alto or Star lines, not to mention because they were not very well made. Had it not been for the iMac and Lisa, the whole style of GUI would have either not existed or taken a very long time to fully develop.Warachia said:
Second, of coarse Steve Jobs had EVERYTHING to do with the new wave of digital distribution for music. Nothing on the scale or the effectiveness of iTunes had ever existed before. What came after based its designs off of iTunes and its distribution method. He created iTunes, he created the music distribution methods we see today.
Third: no, he didn't create touch screens. But no POPULAR smart-phone before the iphone had one. They all had button based designs and touch screens seemed slow, inaccurate, and inconvenient. The Palm Pilot had it, but most everything else was button based. With the release of the iPhone and now iPad, the industry is dominated by smart-phones that have touch based interfaces. Thank the iPhone, and specifically Steve Jobs, for that.
That's the rub, though. He never did anything personally, he got others to do it and took the credit.Flac00 said:
Yeah, that list is bullshit. Jobs as an innovative entrepreneur I would understand. As an inventor? Absolutely not. There are far more influential inventors that should be put on that list such as Nikola Tesla, Leonardo DaVinci, Gutenberg, the Wright Brothers, Ben Franklin, etc.
BUUUT..... When I think about it, a lot of the recent innovations in software and hardware wouldn't have been possible without Apple, and Steve's personality was what made Apple shine all the brighter.
BUUUT..... When I think about it, a lot of the recent innovations in software and hardware wouldn't have been possible without Apple, and Steve's personality was what made Apple shine all the brighter.
Napster ring a bell? (1999)Flac00 said:
And of course FTP has been around since ARPANET.
I will admit that Apple was one of the first to succesfully commercialise a digital distribution method, but even RealNetworks was selling digital downloads before them.
EDIT spellig!
EDIT2: And Amazon were the guys who convinced us we could pay for stuff using the Internet.
He didn't have people do anything for him. Inventing is not always the important part. Making those things that he did took skill, prowess, and fortitude. Its not like he just stole xerox's operating system and slapped "apple" on it. He took an unworkable idea with potential and created a revolution with it. Other people may have had the first thought, but he was the one to take that thought and put it far beyond what anyone could even conceive.BlackStar42 said:
Not to mention, Steve Jobs never took credit for what he did not do. He never said he created the GUI or that he created all of the things he innovated, but he is still credited with making them what they are today.
And everybody still buys music from Napster. Being the first successfully commercialized is what matters here. Buying digital music online was never accepted as a real alternative until iTunes.Andrew_C said:
Also, there is a reason I said DIGITAL distribution on a large scale. Amazon is the equivalent of a catalogue online, very different experience and idea. You could not download your couch onto your computer.
Wow. Steve and Edison on the top. Really?
I dare say, that voicing the reasons for why i resent this list thoroughly is rendered useless, looking at all these other replies.
Yet I must still make the claim that Edison being on that list makes it ignorant, and completely idiotic. Go Tesla!
And to balance up the Tesla>Edison here, I do believe I have to make a Richie>Jobs, as C most certainly is a quite significant and impressive creation indeed.
Also, I find it quite surprising that they did not include a certain 'Da Vinci' there.
Yadda yadda.
I dare say, that voicing the reasons for why i resent this list thoroughly is rendered useless, looking at all these other replies.
Yet I must still make the claim that Edison being on that list makes it ignorant, and completely idiotic. Go Tesla!
And to balance up the Tesla>Edison here, I do believe I have to make a Richie>Jobs, as C most certainly is a quite significant and impressive creation indeed.
Also, I find it quite surprising that they did not include a certain 'Da Vinci' there.
Yadda yadda.
Exactly the same thing here. I re-read because I was sure that people couldn't be this stupid...Dexter111 said:
This is literally the first and only thing that went through my head when I saw the article title...
This is the second:
Holy fanboy alert in the thread.
Let's look at this seriously guys. Consider all of the supposed innovations Apple have done over the years, consider their products.
Best example, the Tablet.
First released in 2000, nobody wanted it. Then all of a sudden nearly a decade later, Apple comes out with the same idea, inferior hardware specifications and sells an ungodly amount. What changed? Likely answer is, the Apple fanboys changed it. Does anyone remember being bombarded with advertisements for the early pre Apple tabs? I don't. How often can you go without seeing an annoying Apple ad for a piece of their over priced crap? I can't even go to school without seeing one. Suffice to say that the main reason for the success of Apple products isn't Job's brilliance, but his marketing department.
Sony was actually the first company to created an online music store, not Apple. In the usual Sony fashion, they fucked it up by charging too much and exposing it too little to the public, because I had never heard of it. Then Apple does the same thing and advertises it till it's blue in the face.
If you want to call Jobs an innovative genius for making things mainstream, fine. If anything he was good at selling things, while others weren't. Now is that due to incompetence, or genuine disinterest of the product in general? It's quite possible that all these things that Apple sells so well, is actually crap, we're all mesmerized into believing that it's remarkable through clever ads. Congrats people, you are sheep, numbers, easily influenced mind slaves.
Seriously think about it, how often do you see an ad for an Apple product. Now how often do you see an ad for Asus Transformer Prime? I work in electronics retail, and you will not believe how often I get a customer who has no idea that similar products from other manufacturers exist.
Let's look at this seriously guys. Consider all of the supposed innovations Apple have done over the years, consider their products.
Best example, the Tablet.
First released in 2000, nobody wanted it. Then all of a sudden nearly a decade later, Apple comes out with the same idea, inferior hardware specifications and sells an ungodly amount. What changed? Likely answer is, the Apple fanboys changed it. Does anyone remember being bombarded with advertisements for the early pre Apple tabs? I don't. How often can you go without seeing an annoying Apple ad for a piece of their over priced crap? I can't even go to school without seeing one. Suffice to say that the main reason for the success of Apple products isn't Job's brilliance, but his marketing department.
Sony was actually the first company to created an online music store, not Apple. In the usual Sony fashion, they fucked it up by charging too much and exposing it too little to the public, because I had never heard of it. Then Apple does the same thing and advertises it till it's blue in the face.
If you want to call Jobs an innovative genius for making things mainstream, fine. If anything he was good at selling things, while others weren't. Now is that due to incompetence, or genuine disinterest of the product in general? It's quite possible that all these things that Apple sells so well, is actually crap, we're all mesmerized into believing that it's remarkable through clever ads. Congrats people, you are sheep, numbers, easily influenced mind slaves.
Seriously think about it, how often do you see an ad for an Apple product. Now how often do you see an ad for Asus Transformer Prime? I work in electronics retail, and you will not believe how often I get a customer who has no idea that similar products from other manufacturers exist.
Nothing you've heard before now; nine pages of the same reaction. I wonder if the definition of "innovation" changed in the past decade...
I mean, seriously?
Edison?
Zuckerburg?
Earhart? Might as well chalk up Christopher Columbus, because obviously the focus somehow translated from "people who came up with actual creative ideas" to "famous people who had good publicity."
Leonardo Da Vinci.
Tesla.
Whoever invented scissors. That's what the list should look like. Because let's face it:
I mean, seriously?
Edison?
Zuckerburg?
Earhart? Might as well chalk up Christopher Columbus, because obviously the focus somehow translated from "people who came up with actual creative ideas" to "famous people who had good publicity."
Leonardo Da Vinci.
Tesla.
Whoever invented scissors. That's what the list should look like. Because let's face it:
1983:
1890:
Awesome (n.): An attribute embodied in the dude who invented an automated Force Lightning machine almost a century before Lucas directed Return of the Jedi.
1890:
Awesome (n.): An attribute embodied in the dude who invented an automated Force Lightning machine almost a century before Lucas directed Return of the Jedi.