Is TES5 Completely Missing the Point?

[YawningAngel]

I was looking at the news article, and I couldn't help but be perturbed by the 'features' that TES5 is said to contain: what truly made the series great for me was the detail it included, and the attention paid to it: the fact that you could go to the 43rd town you found in Daggerfall or Morrowind, and find a genuinely interesting quest (and moreover that there actually was a meaningful 43rd town); that you didn't just find a common-or-garden bandit toting Daedric armour, and actually had to go hunt the stuff down; in short, that it had all the fine touches of Vampire Clans, Strongholds, Red Mountain, 9000 different factions, Levitation, a way to completely bork the main quest and still complete the game and all the other small touches that gave the world a touch of verisimilitude that Oblivion's shallow offering couldn't even touch. Don't get me wrong: Oblivion was, by the standards of most RPGs, a deep and satisfying game. It just couldn't hold a candle to the rich, feature-filled behemoth of Morrowind.

It's at this point that I'll note what's been promised in Skyrim: Dual-wielding, dueling, improved graphics, finishing moves, sprinting, etc. However, they've totally missed what made Morrowind, Daggerfall, and the preceding games good: their sense of scale and depth. I'd be the first to admit that the games never had huge amounts in the way of gameplay; I was just too busy loving the hell out of the TLC the environment designers had obviously been giving their work to care, and I feel that Skyrim risks missing the things that made Morrowind great if it tries to emulate other RPGs and become more of a combat-orientated Hack'n'Slash RPG than the brilliant sandbox that previous games were.

 

[SimuLord]

From the looks of it, absolutely nothing you've mentioned as causing you so much trepidation has anything whatsoever to do with the story or the richness of the interaction with NPCs. They would just seem to have massively improved the combat and leveling systems.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

From the looks of it, absolutely nothing you've mentioned as causing you so much trepidation has anything whatsoever to do with the story or the richness of the interaction with NPCs. They would just seem to have massively improved the combat and leveling systems.

I agree with this guy. How does improving the combat system inherently mean that the story and interaction with NPCs is worse?

 

[Chibz]

If that's true than TES has "missed the point" since Oblivion.

But I will say this: Morrowind had a godawful combat system and I didn't much want to spend just dicking around with individual armour components when most competently designed game would just streamline the process.

The lack of intro gave me no reason to care about the shitty combat. The shitty combat made me flee the game.

And don't get me started on the awful dialogue system...

 

[tologna]

It'll probably have all that good stuff too. I think oblivion was as good as morrowind in the case of invironment. It was just less "alien", and so, less intruiging.

 

[veloper]

I'll bet TES5 will be cookie cutter boring stupid and sell like hot cakes.

 

[Pandaman1911]

TES5 is going to be a gigantic shit sandwich. I completely refuse to get my hopes up for this game. I just know that they're going to change so much it's not even going to feel like The Elder Scrolls anymore, just kind of a medieval-style Halo or something. I'm just going to download Morrowind 2011, burn it to a CD, and put "THE ELDER SCROLLS 5 SKYRIM" on the CD case. Then I will smash my head into the wall until I forgot that I made said CD. And then I will play it.
This seems to be the only way I could possibly enjoy TES5.

 

[EHKOS]

From the looks of it, absolutely nothing you've mentioned as causing you so much trepidation has anything whatsoever to do with the story or the richness of the interaction with NPCs. They would just seem to have massively improved the combat and leveling systems.

Yes, but by doing that he is worried they won't pay enough attention to the things that matter to him most of all.

 

[SimuLord]

From the looks of it, absolutely nothing you've mentioned as causing you so much trepidation has anything whatsoever to do with the story or the richness of the interaction with NPCs. They would just seem to have massively improved the combat and leveling systems.

Yes, but by doing that he is worried they won't pay enough attention to the things that matter to him most of all.

Then let him go play Daggerfall and Morrowind. I loved Oblivion and am looking forward to diving back into that world. And if they took the things that worked in Fallout 3 to improve the Elder Scrolls experience? Well, Fallout 3 and New Vegas are two of my three all-time favorite games, so more in that vein on the gameplay front is very, VERY good indeed.

Besides, not all of us want a game that's all about story. You've all heard my rant about how story should only exist to move the player from one set of things to kill and break to the next set of things to kill and break.

 

[Valkyrie101]

Like SimuLord said, there's no indication that there won't be a deep and interesting world and story. they've just improved gameplay. This has probably been announced because it's more exciting for the average gamer, and because it's immediately quantifiable. Dual wielding? Check. More fleshed-out world? Subjective.

They've also mentioned that certain quests are only available to PCs with a high enough particular skill. Doesn't tell us too much, but that to me indicates a shift towards deeper roleplaying and a more sophisticated game, rather than "everyone does everything". Consider the difference between FO3 and New Vegas.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

I think this kind of thing is going to be impossible to tell untill we get to play it. Then we'll see, but from the sounds of it it'll be ok at least.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

TES5 is going to be a gigantic shit sandwich. I completely refuse to get my hopes up for this game. I just know that they're going to change so much it's not even going to feel like The Elder Scrolls anymore, just kind of a medieval-style Halo or something.

Meanwhile, the rest of us will be enjoying Skyrim and having a blast with it, just like we did with Oblivion.

I understand they removed a lot of the complexities and the environmental design was more imaginative in Morrowind, but there was still much to love for many people in its sequel.

 

[Pandaman1911]

-snip-

Meanwhile, the rest of us will be enjoying Skyrim and having a blast with it, just like we did with Oblivion.

I understand they removed a lot of the complexities and the environmental design was more imaginative in Morrowind, but there was still much to love for many people in its sequel.

Oh, no argument there. Oblivion was a blast, even if I was constantly looking for my fucking spears and throwing stars. In fact, I believe I spent more time playing Oblivion than I did Morrowind. I've just got "That Feeling" about Skyrim. You know the one. It's the same feeling that the ambiguous space marine gets when he announces "I've got a bad feeling about this" and promptly gets devoured by the creepy space alien that's hiding in the shadows. But replace the space marine with me and the alien with a shitty game and the devouring with crushing disappointment.

 

[Riddle78]

It's not even out yet. Wait until it comes out,play it for yourself,THEN make an argument on weather or not it misses the point.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Oh, no argument there. Oblivion was a blast, even if I was constantly looking for my fucking spears and throwing stars. In fact, I believe I spent more time playing Oblivion than I did Morrowind. I've just got "That Feeling" about Skyrim. You know the one. It's the same feeling that the ambiguous space marine gets when he announces "I've got a bad feeling about this" and promptly gets devoured by the creepy space alien that's hiding in the shadows. But replace the space marine with me and the alien with a shitty game and the devouring with crushing disappointment.

Lol, fair enough... well I'm completely the opposite, totally hyped for it ... especially after seeing the screenshots and new graphical engine. It looks purrty.

 

[Jazoni89]

Are you worried about this game?

Because im sure as hell not.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Besides, not all of us want a game that's all about story. You've all heard my rant about how story should only exist to move the player from one set of things to kill and break to the next set of things to kill and break.

I haven't heard the rant.

I'd love to, though. I agree with it...

 

[Hyper-space]

I was looking at the news article, and I couldn't help but be perturbed by the 'features' that TES5 is said to contain: what truly made the series great for me was the detail it included, and the attention paid to it: the fact that you could go to the 43rd town you found in Daggerfall or Morrowind, and find a genuinely interesting quest (and moreover that there actually was a meaningful 43rd town); that you didn't just find a common-or-garden bandit toting Daedric armour, and actually had to go hunt the stuff down; in short, that it had all the fine touches of Vampire Clans, Strongholds, Red Mountain, 9000 different factions, Levitation, a way to completely bork the main quest and still complete the game and all the other small touches that gave the world a touch of verisimilitude that Oblivion's shallow offering couldn't even touch. Don't get me wrong: Oblivion was, by the standards of most RPGs, a deep and satisfying game. It just couldn't hold a candle to the rich, feature-filled behemoth of Morrowind.

It's at this point that I'll note what's been promised in Skyrim: Dual-wielding, dueling, improved graphics, finishing moves, sprinting, etc. However, they've totally missed what made Morrowind, Daggerfall, and the preceding games good: their sense of scale and depth. I'd be the first to admit that the games never had huge amounts in the way of gameplay; I was just too busy loving the hell out of the TLC the environment designers had obviously been giving their work to care, and I feel that Skyrim risks missing the things that made Morrowind great if it tries to emulate other RPGs and become more of a combat-orientated Hack'n'Slash RPG than the brilliant sandbox that previous games were.

Are you kidding me? are you by any chance a time traveler who has already played TES5? no?

What Bethesda are doing is fixing all of the problems of oblivion and by that i mean they are fixing the combat to make it more robust (finally, you can actually fight as a mage). Oh and not to mention they have added Radiant AI, a dynamic quest system in which, for example, if you kill a shopkeeper, his daughter might not give you a quest, or if your skill is high enough you can get a quest you might not otherwise get. Also, there are quest that you can only get by being at the right time and place, plus with dragons roaming around, they have said that they may suddenly pop in and ravage a town or whatnot.

All of your complaints are moot, seeing as we only have a few scans to go by. But seeing what the scans have shown us, and what was confirmed by Bethesda, TES5 will have the most dynamic environment and quest system to date.

 

[omicron1]

I'm gonna trust Bethesda on this one. And if it turns out my trust was betrayed, well then I'm gonna trust the modding community.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I was looking at the news article, and I couldn't help but be perturbed by the 'features' that TES5 is said to contain: what truly made the series great for me was the detail it included, and the attention paid to it: the fact that you could go to the 43rd town you found in Daggerfall or Morrowind, and find a genuinely interesting quest (and moreover that there actually was a meaningful 43rd town); that you didn't just find a common-or-garden bandit toting Daedric armour, and actually had to go hunt the stuff down; in short, that it had all the fine touches of Vampire Clans, Strongholds, Red Mountain, 9000 different factions, Levitation, a way to completely bork the main quest and still complete the game and all the other small touches that gave the world a touch of verisimilitude that Oblivion's shallow offering couldn't even touch. Don't get me wrong: Oblivion was, by the standards of most RPGs, a deep and satisfying game. It just couldn't hold a candle to the rich, feature-filled behemoth of Morrowind.

It's at this point that I'll note what's been promised in Skyrim: Dual-wielding, dueling, improved graphics, finishing moves, sprinting, etc. However, they've totally missed what made Morrowind, Daggerfall, and the preceding games good: their sense of scale and depth. I'd be the first to admit that the games never had huge amounts in the way of gameplay; I was just too busy loving the hell out of the TLC the environment designers had obviously been giving their work to care, and I feel that Skyrim risks missing the things that made Morrowind great if it tries to emulate other RPGs and become more of a combat-orientated Hack'n'Slash RPG than the brilliant sandbox that previous games were.

Well what is TES(or FO3,ect)? Is it an action adventure game a action RPG or a fantasy sim game?

I think Oblivion missed the boat because you had 10 life jackets on and could not get on the boat, the boat being gameplay and gameplay balance, story was so so morrowind was more much more polished but a bit stuck in the mud.

FO3 gameplay balance was tossed out as so they could gear crap for DLC and the 8 hour main story arch so you could not get the feel of a whole game from it.

I think TES 5 will be in that mind set highly streamlined and simplified to maximize sells, think bioshock with twice as much equipment/powers for a 50 hour game thats only 8 hours long but has DLC coeming for it to fill the holes in it...

Frankly I think they would be better off expanding the game 10 hours per DLC that includes adding something to the main story arch even if its backtracking and puzzle/clue solving but whatever the sheeple will eat it up regardless of what they do...