Is the Insanity Plea a legitimate defense?

[NLS]

This doesn't mean he got a "get out of jail" free ticket, they'll have to evaluate if he's healthy enough to get out every 3 years. In addition to this, they have to verify if he's a danger to our society or not, so even if he once were to be "treated" he could still be considered a danger, and just kept inside for a long time. Also, it's not as if he said "I'm sick lolz, I can't go to prison". They had 2 independent professionals write a 240 page report on him, so it's quite legit and not just a quick way to get away.

 

[Kiwilove]

Damn it, that's nicer than my dorm room.
OT. The guy is clearly insane. I doubt he can be rehabilitated. A psych hospital is probably better.

 

[Something Amyss]

As with most things, movies embellish the "my client is insane" plea to ridiculous proportions.

Not to mention, they tend to take the chances of a jury going for it to ridiculous ends.

At least, with regard to the US legal system. We're pretty biased against crazies, so saying "I'm crazy" is not a get-out-of-jail-free card, even if true. Hell, it's not even a "get into a mental ward instead of jail" card.

 

[Richard Keohane]

I am training to enter this field (in the United States), so I could TLR about this for hours. I'll try to give you a short list of why Not Guilty By Reason of Mental Disease or Defect is a good thing.

1) Here in America, if you're found guilty of a crime it's because you're responsible for your actions. When you find someone not guilty through an insanity plea, they are admitting that they committed the crime, but either could not control their actions or did not have the mental capacity to understand their actions at the time of the offense. They can't be held responsible for what they did, much like a child who breaks something because they just didn't know any better.

2) If that smells like bullshit to you, it also probably smells like bullshit to the judge and/or jury, which is why the vast majority of insanity defenses fail. A successful insanity defense happens so rarely because the disability has to be well documented. So when a defense lawyer does try this as an attempt to avoid a legitimate guilty verdict, it's usually painfully obvious to everyone that the accused was responsible.

3) Even if you were 100% sure that your lawyer was going to "get you off the hook" with an insanity plea, you should FIRE HIM IMMEDIATELY, BECAUSE YOU WOULD SPEND A MUCH LONGER PERIOD OF TIME COMMITTED IN TREATMENT THAN IN YOU WOULD IN PRISON. If your lawyer suggests an insanity defense, they either think you are legitimately crazy, they don't know what the hell they're doing, or they just want to put another notch on their "Not Guilty" belt.

If anything, it's TOO difficult in America to get mentally retarded, psychotropically medicated, and schizophrenic offenders to be found not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect.

Of course, I don't know anything about this guy, or his country's legal system.

 

[lacktheknack]

it's not enough, that most of the prisons in the nordic countries are like a vacation resort, but now they let THAT guy go free.


NOW THAT IS A LOAD OF BULL

"Go free"

...

What people think mental institutions look like:

http://villamedcenter.com/images/main01.jpg

What they actually look like:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4125/5140349947_f442316ecb.jpg

What's wrong with him being locked up HERE instead of in the Norwegian criminal rehabilitation centers?

 

[Airsoftslayer93]

You realise a psyche ward isnt much better than a jail

 

[KingofallCosmos]

Just liked to add that recently a successful baseball player got stabbed to death by his younger brother, also a great player. He was and is still suffering from psychosis. Since the younger brother was my sisters classmate this was pretty close to home.

When I heard about it I just felt sad. Maybe especially for the younger brother. He doesn't yet realize what he's done.

I think what I'm trying to say is that even though it might be possible to use it as an "easy" way out it should never be taken lightly.

 

[Robert Ewing]

It's not a defense at all. Even if somebody is insane, they should still be placed into some sort of institution, because fact is, they are a serious and obvious danger... Even though Scandinavian prisons are like holiday resorts.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

You are strongly mistaking "Psychiatric Ward for possibly the rest of his life" for "Getting off scot-free".

He is going to be behind lock and key, heavily medicated and very likely personally restrained for the rest of his life.

Seriously, not kidding, the man will spend the rest of his life strapped to a bed for days on end (shitting and pissing himself day in and day out, i need to stress this, when they strap you to a bed, if you need to shit, you shit yourself. He is going to be spending a lot of time shitting and pissing himself.) punctuated by long 'interview' sessions wherein doctors will treat him as though he is a neutered monster trapped under a microscope.

Oh, and because he is clearly pretty fucking violent, he's likely going to be kept 'regulated' on Halperidol or stronger Haldol isn't one of the 'fun' meds. Any time this man has not under that microscope or literally strapped to a bed, he is basically going to be sitting in a corner, drooling at a wall.

His sentence is somewhat analogous to lifelong solitary confinement, except that he's going to be under the direct, physical care of probably like a half-dozen or more very large orderlies who probably don't particularly like him even a little bit. Even a little. (because btw each and every one of them knows exactly who he is. exactly who he is)

He has not gotten away with shit.

He is, however, clearly out of his fucking mind.

It is generally not a good idea to put clearly fucking batshit psychotics into a prison with other people who are, while possibly violent, are not likely to be batshit psychotic.
If you do that, people get killed. Either someone kills him or he kills someone, there is no option C.

Norway has chosen to medicate the brains out of this monster, strap him to a bed and stick him in a box under a microscope.

I feel this was the appropriate choice.

This guy has it down.

By sending him to a psych ward permanently (the best choice, seeing as how he's batshit insane), he is removed form society, and we will be able to try to figure out WHAT drove him batshit insane, and maybe prevent other people from going batshit insane in the same way.

It's also going to be a very terribly existence for him too. Bonus points.

 

[dickywebster]

Yes, if hes insane and a danger to people, then sending him somewhere that wont let him out unless hes cured is better than prison where he might get out even if he isnt cured.

 

[James Crook]

Well, if it's like Shutter Island's Psychiatry Wards, I'd be definitely pleased.

 

[Vakz]

Just some info for anyone who don't actually read newspapers: Brevik is NOT pleading insanity himself. In fact, he strongly denies being mentally ill. The ones who are calling him insane are two doctors who have examined him at the court's request.

 

[Sutter Cane]

Difficult to say the least, should a person who is unable to control themselves during a psychotic episode be held for their actions?

Personally, no, up to a point.

See, the difference here is that he might of been delusional at times, but making a carbomb and planning out an attack like this one takes time, months maybe.

You cant argue that during this entire time he didn't have a lapse of insanity and came to his senses.

Even so, there should of been warning signs that others could of picked up on. Family, close friends, people should of been able to find something that told them that something was wrong.

I think people do have a legitimate claim of innocence due to insanity, but up to a point some responsibility should be taken by the defendant.


Honestly, he could be more of a problem if put into prison without psychiatric help, so life in a ward or asylum would be a better choice.

Still though, the survivors and family members of the victims should receive more closure than "we will put him in a padded room for the rest of his life".

the way you put that, you make it seem like the criminal justice system should be more about making the victims feel better rather than about rehabilitating criminals or simply keeping dangerous people where they can't do any harm. That kind of attitude worries me.

 

[RJ Dalton]

The insanity plea doesn't mean you get off scott-free. It means instead of going to prison to be raped by hairy men with long pent-up sexual frustrations, you go to a mental institution where they inject you with chemicals and talk at you in hopes of changing your behavior. Given the way these institutions work, the insanity plea can be just as bad, if not worse, than a full on prison sentence. At least there's a chance of getting out of prison.

 

[Kopikatsu]

The insanity plea doesn't mean you get off scott-free. It means instead of going to prison to be raped by hairy men with long pent-up sexual frustrations, you go to a mental institution where they inject you with chemicals and talk at you in hopes of changing your behavior. Given the way these institutions work, the insanity plea can be just as bad, if not worse, than a full on prison sentence. At least there's a chance of getting out of prison.

There's also the fact that anything you do (Including acting normally and claiming that you're 'cured') will be construed as being part of your psychosis. Which goes back to the 'You will never leave this place alive' thing.

 

[Patrick Buck]

I don't really think it matters, as long a he's kept away from the public. And not allowed to do as he wants, thats punishment enough. Being trapped, with insane people, under constant watch is enough to make you paranoid, or even crazy. So the end result will be the same....

 

[fenrizz]

It's not a defense at all. Even if somebody is insane, they should still be placed into some sort of institution, because fact is, they are a serious and obvious danger... Even though Scandinavian prisons are like holiday resorts.

Do you really think that the courts just lets them go if they are insane?

They don't.
They place them, as you wished, in a mental institution.

The Norwegian, and wider Scandinavian, prisons are all about reforming the prisoners so they can get out and contribute to society again after they have served their sentence.

That means that they must be in an environment that is not severely disconnected from society.
It also means that they will be able to get educated, eat properly and are treated with respect and dignity.

Treating people like monsters only serves to create monsters.

Look at the statistics.
Norway has a 20% relapse rate after 2 years.
US and UK has around 50-60%.

 

[S_SienZ]

People are also not realising that defences in law have varying degrees. Insanity is only a partial defence, as shown in this case where he still has to go to a psyche ward instead of prison. Self defence on the other hand, is a complete defence and you're fine. Just because you still have to be penalised doesn't mean it's not a defence.