Is this a healthy attitude to have about female friends?

[Snowbell]

Women are people too, and especially girls who like 'dorky stuff' prefer to be thought of as 'one of the guys'.

Yes, it's unhealthy. It seems like you're purpousefully avoiding friendships with women just because they're not interested - or often even incapable of having a relationship with you, which is frankly rather chauvanistic.

You say your interactions are awkward when it comes to women, and although I think you should be having frienships with women anyway, the reason that should motivate YOU to start some is that frendships with women will make you feel less awkward around them and help you get a girlfriend in the long run.

As a girl I really don't like that attitude. We're not here to just be in relationships with guys and I only stick to communities that treat me as one of them rather than eye candy or a potential date. After all, females make up just over 50% of the Earth's population and it's ridiculous to boycott us in any way.

 

[Melon Hunter]

Everything in your post is misogynistic.

Could I call you a misandrist if you prefer the company of women?

If they'd said that they don't like the company of men because men are stupid, boring and shallow you probably could. They'd be right, of course, but it's still not a very nice thing to say.

I can't even talk about politics with my friends because their boyfriends always feel the need to butt in with their worthless opinions, so I have to talk about my hair and nails until they go away.

I really hope you're being sarcastic here, otherwise you're no better than the esteemed Mr. McDonald up there.

OT: I can kinda understand your worries. I know the feeling of vague guilt about starting a friendship with a girl when really, your only and ultimate goal is to get into a relationship with her. Thing is, there's nothing wrong with being attracted to a girl who is just a friend; as other posters have said, that attraction can mean anything, not just that you want to go out with them. Take them up on it. I have plenty of female friends who I started out seeing as potential relationships the first time I met them, only for that initial romantic attraction to fall away as I got to know them better, and for me to want them as a friend instead.

 

[WaysideMaze]

The other point about accepting women into my life as friends makes more sense, but it's not like I have a switch in my head that makes me no longer attracted to them. Like I said in my first post, if a girl is cute, funny, interesting, and has a lot in common with me, why WOULDN'T I want to date her?

Try not focusing your energy on chasing a girl who's taken.

Hang out with them, sure. Treat them like any other friend, any yeah, maybe in the future they'll become available and you can try your luck then. But don't spend all your energy hoping that this one particular girl is going to be it.

Be friends with them, and keep looking for someone else.

 

[Phasmal]

I have thought a lot about the whole "friendzone" problem (being someone who has been freindzoned), and I've thought: Why can't you be in a relationship but also be friends? Surely the words "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" exist for a reason other than purely sexual attraction? When I was in love, I'm pretty sure my attraction was not purely sexual. I wanted to be there for her and protect her, I didn't just want to fuck her.

You can be in a relationship and also be friends, my boyfriend is my best friend.
But, you cant be in a relationship with your friend if the key element (attraction) is missing.
There begins the `friend zone` (or just being rejected, as I call it).
There is no friendzone `problem`, because the problem is that the person you want to be in a relationship with doesn't want to be in a relationship with you.

 

[Galletea]

As a result, I spend more time talking to guys, just because I know it'll be less awkward for me.

Here is your problem. Don't think about what other people might think of you, if you want to talk to the girls then talk to them. This is much more likely to result in opportunities for you to get to know other more single girls. Just chill out about the whole thing, stop comparing yourself to other people and just talk to whoever you find interesting.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I don't think that I could be friends with someone for whom I had unrequited love, I'm pretty sure it would destroy me.

If you're friends with them, then how is your love unrequited?

For everything you say, you're acting like not being able to have sex with someone somehow makes it a lesser form of relationship. While a lot of people might operate on that assumption, it doesn't have to be so.

Now, if you can't stand the thought of your friend being with anyone else in a romantic sense and their relationship sometimes taking priority, then that's a whole separate problem. But that's not an issue of unrequited love, it's an issue of your own jealousy (not that being jealous is bad, but it's worth being honest about).

I don't believe there are people who you need to have sex with in order to have a functioning relationship with them. If you can't function as friends with someone you're sexually attracted to, then how do you expect to be able to handle having a sexual relationship with someone you're also friends with?

You can still "be there" for someone and "protect" them as a friend. What you can't do, and you absolutely shouldn't do even if you're in a relationship with them, is try and protect someone from themselves by pulling rank and claiming to know what's best for them.

This is why the idea of a "friendzone" is so insulting. You cannot persuade someone to be attracted to you simply because you get on, as if you know that's all they can expect so they may as well go along with it. People are not machines where, if you enter the right button combination, you get the response you were looking for. If you get on with someone then good, but that doesn't obligate them to see you as a potential sexual partner.. and that's what being in a relationship means, it means being a potential sexual partner. If you're conflating it with something else, then that's your problem.

Now, if someone treats you badly as a friend, then I'd be the first one to complain. I have no time for people who treat their friends badly, but it's certainly not worth getting passive aggressive about and blaming it on the fact that they don't respect you because they didn't put out. But the fact that you can "only" be friends.. is that really meant to be a great tragedy?

I don't mean this to sound harsh by the way. Your first paragraph is spot on.

 

[annoyinglizardvoice]

There's a difference between being the "nice guy" and hanging out with them because they're actually fun to hang out with as a friend. I'm yet to find anything I can do as a friend with one gender that I can't do with the other. I prefer to hang out in mixed gender groups, as I find that there's less risk of the interaction becoming stagnant that way.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I'm a guy who has a hard enough time making friends with other guys, let alone girls. But I try to treat both men and women equally, and not stereotype them (as easy as it may be at times).

I used to have two close female friends that I was just as comfortable with them as I was with my male friends, but I'm not really friends with them anymore because we just drifted apart.

 

[ImBigBob]

I feel like part of the problem is that I very, VERY rarely meet girls who I really get along with. At work and school and such, there are plenty of guys who I can talk with about video games, Star Trek, conventions, etc. But the vast majority of girls I meet tend to be unlikeable, viewing gaming as a dumb hobby, or talking less about their interests and instead on the divorce they're going through even though they're the same age as me (24). When I meet a girl who actually has nerdy interests, I automatically view her in a different light.

I understand the problem with this, that it causes me to idolize them instead of treating them like a human being, but it's a difficult mentality to get over. It's gotten to the point where I feel guys are naturally more sociable.

I've tried to view this from the other side, that it can be intimidating going to a meetup and being the only girl there. I've noticed that there are female-exclusive nerd meetup groups to combat this purpose, but that still separates us.

 

[Hagi]

I wouldn't worry about it.

It's a problem that fixes itself.

You're under absolutely no obligation to be friends with anyone at all. In fact, feeling like you are pretty much negates the whole friendship anyway.

If you go out feeling like you should have a female friend then chances are pretty high you'll end up doing the exact same thing those nice guys are doing, being friends with her purely and only because she's female and not because of herself.

Make friends with the people you want to be friends with. Most people don't really have that many good friends anyway, chances of there not being a single female among them if you're into predominantly male hobbies are pretty realistic.

What's important is that you have friends you feel you're getting everything from that you expect from a friendship (and likewise they feel they're getting everything they expect from a friendship). Their actual gender doesn't matter. If all of them are male, that's fine. If all of them are female, that's fine. If they're all cats then that's fine as well.

 

[Erana]

When I meet a girl who actually has nerdy interests, I automatically view her in a different light.

I understand the problem with this, that it causes me to idolize them instead of treating them like a human being, but it's a difficult mentality to get over. It's gotten to the point where I feel guys are naturally more sociable.

I don't have that many men in my life IRL. I skipped highschool to go to a women's college and am now dealing with graduate programs where most people, both men and women, are around five years older than me. I haven't had regular interaction with age-appropriate male peers since I was 13. I'm 20 now.
Granted, I have an easier time with this matter than you because I can find plenty of male friends online and I'm asexual and aromantic, so relationship matters are a nonissue.

Its just that, given your situation, how you feel is understandable, and you're actively trying to not treat women differently, which really means a lot, especially for nerdy young women who could keep a sandwich joke per hour ratio well in the positive while gaming.

And you know what? Its okay that you're awkward around women you like as people. We are all awkward in some way. Just keep working at dissapating this discomfort and you'll be fine. What you do need to worry about is this apparent fixation on relationships which seems to be what's leading you to view any nerdy girl as a potential mate. As you said in the OP, you are able to treat a woman already in a relationship as "One of the guys," which furthers my suspicion.
Do you feel pressured to have a relationship? Do you crave companionship? Are you really, really horny for having the company of a ladyfriend? (You don't have to answer these specific questions, of course. )

Also, to get more comfortable with women, why not make some nerdy gamer girl friends online? Just get some women on your steam list or find a pleasant IRC community with a healthy population of both genders? Something that would allow you to hear someone's personal voice through the filter of the internet.

 

[manic_depressive13]

I really hope you're being sarcastic here, otherwise you're no better than the esteemed Mr. McDonald up there.

Obviously. I'm not about to stereotype and entire gender. I'm not an idiot.

 

[ImBigBob]

When I meet a girl who actually has nerdy interests, I automatically view her in a different light.

I understand the problem with this, that it causes me to idolize them instead of treating them like a human being, but it's a difficult mentality to get over. It's gotten to the point where I feel guys are naturally more sociable.

I don't have that many men in my life IRL. I skipped highschool to go to a women's college and am now dealing with graduate programs where most people, both men and women, are around five years older than me. I haven't had regular interaction with age-appropriate male peers since I was 13. I'm 20 now.
Granted, I have an easier time with this matter than you because I can find plenty of male friends online and I'm asexual and aromantic, so relationship matters are a nonissue.

Its just that, given your situation, how you feel is understandable, and you're actively trying to not treat women differently, which really means a lot, especially for nerdy young women who could keep a sandwich joke per hour ratio well in the positive while gaming.

And you know what? Its okay that you're awkward around women you like as people. We are all awkward in some way. Just keep working at dissapating this discomfort and you'll be fine. What you do need to worry about is this apparent fixation on relationships which seems to be what's leading you to view any nerdy girl as a potential mate. As you said in the OP, you are able to treat a woman already in a relationship as "One of the guys," which furthers my suspicion.
Do you feel pressured to have a relationship? Do you crave companionship? Are you really, really horny for having the company of a ladyfriend? (You don't have to answer these specific questions, of course. )

Also, to get more comfortable with women, why not make some nerdy gamer girl friends online? Just get some women on your steam list or find a pleasant IRC community with a healthy population of both genders? Something that would allow you to hear someone's personal voice through the filter of the internet.

There's a whole lot of pressure, both online and offline, to have someone a significant other. And a lot of days, it really pisses me off that I tick so many boxes off the "nerd" checklist. I like Friendship is Magic. I like Star Trek. I like weird Japanese RPGs. I dislike sports, hate bars, and I'd rather stay at home reading a good book than go dancing at a club. And I've never had a real, person-to-person relationship. Nevermind the fact that I'm a college graduate, I have a job, I have my own apartment, I exercise regularly, and I like to socialize with people with similar interests. The fact that I've never had a real girlfriend means I'm a loser to a lot of people. It's easy to say "oh, you shouldn't care what others think", but when you're the outlier, it's hard to ignore.

And if there's a place on the internet where guys and girls are at an even ratio, I'd love to know. Because most forums I frequent are mostly guys.

 

[Phasmal]

Snip.

Your posts are confusing, what do you want- more girl friends, a girlfriend? Both?
Because they are things you should approach differently, imo.

 

[Erana]

The fact that I've never had a real girlfriend means I'm a loser to a lot of people. It's easy to say "oh, you shouldn't care what others think", but when you're the outlier, it's hard to ignore.

This here is a big problem. And no, its not easy to be different from what society says you should be, but there are still times that you just have to put your foot down and say, "Fuck that."
The only reason you should be at all interested in a romantic relationship is if it would make you and your partner feel fulfilled. And ticking off socially-mandated boxes doesn't make you more or less of anything.
Who in your life is putting this kind of pressure, or passing this kind of judgement on you for being a single nerd? I mean, I get the constant social pressures of this nature, but if you're this strongly affected by it, then there's probably an element in your life that makes it much more personal. Being a nerd is hard for me sometimes because my mother is very critical of anything that comes into the lives of her offspring, gaming and the internet especially.
Could it be your parents? Siblings? Especially unpleasant highschool?

 

[ImBigBob]

The fact that I've never had a real girlfriend means I'm a loser to a lot of people. It's easy to say "oh, you shouldn't care what others think", but when you're the outlier, it's hard to ignore.

This here is a big problem. And no, its not easy to be different from what society says you should be, but there are still times that you just have to put your foot down and say, "Fuck that."
The only reason you should be at all interested in a romantic relationship is if it would make you and your partner feel fulfilled. And ticking off socially-mandated boxes doesn't make you more or less of anything.
Who in your life is putting this kind of pressure, or passing this kind of judgement on you for being a single nerd? I mean, I get the constant social pressures of this nature, but if you're this strongly affected by it, then there's probably an element in your life that makes it much more personal. Being a nerd is hard for me sometimes because my mother is very critical of anything that comes into the lives of her offspring, gaming and the internet especially.
Could it be your parents? Siblings? Especially unpleasant highschool?

Nobody in my family or friends is putting significant pressure on me. It's just that everywhere I go, I see people holding hands, rings on their fingers, talking about their significant others, etc. Makes me feel like I'm really missing out.

I've had a lot of people tell me, both online and off, from both genders, that there's nothing wrong with me. They say I'm handsome, I'm outgoing, I'm smart, I have goals and ambitions. But instead of encouraging me, it just makes me feel like I'm unlucky.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want a girl just for the social attention. I'm just tired of eating meals alone, watching TV alone, going for walks alone, etc.

 

[Archon]

The other point about accepting women into my life as friends makes more sense, but it's not like I have a switch in my head that makes me no longer attracted to them. Like I said in my first post, if a girl is cute, funny, interesting, and has a lot in common with me, why WOULDN'T I want to date her?

I will let you in on a dirty secret: Very few men are friends with a woman they aren't attracted to in some way. (The opposite is not necessarily true of women, which can be the source of much pain if you're not aware of it.)

Just because you are attracted to a woman does not mean you should try sleep with her, of course. But it doesn't mean you should try to pretend she's not a woman, either. I think the advice of "treat your female friends like your guy friends" is bad advice. Men and women are different and your friendships should reflect that difference, and cherish the wonderful ways in which those differences enrich our lives. Treating an attractive woman like "one of the guys" is missing out on much of the pleasure of female friends.

Your real issue, from what you have described, is that you feel awkward around the company of women you are attracted to. You must overcome this. The only way to overcome this is to practice being in the company of women you are attracted to, until it is as natural to you as breathing and walking.

If I were you, I'd be befriending all of the women you meet. *Never* let the fact that a woman is in a relationship dissuade you from befriending her. As a man, you can never have too many attractive female friends (however you define attractive). Attractive female friends can invite you to parties as their guests, go out with you as wingwomen, recommend you to their friends, help you pick better clothes when you go shopping, and on and on. Other attractive women will judge you on the basis of how attractive women view you, and how many of them you are regularly seen in the company of.

But what you must avoid is "best female friend" syndrome. You do not want to have one close friendship with one female platonic friend. Such a relationship will preclude you from dating, as other women will judge you to either be taken. You want to have lots of female friends in a wide circle, all of who think you rock.

 

[MrHide-Patten]

Short and sweet. Women are people too, just don't put your dick in them unless they ask you to. Even that practice caution.

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