Is this a healthy attitude to have about female friends?

[LordFish]

if a girl has a boyfriend, I'll still flirt with her, if she doesn't flirt back then I tend to not talk to her, as I really only have one mode around girls.

 

[Woodsey]

But when going to more nerd-centered meetups, it swings hard on the male side of things.

Just... just give me a minute....

Ahem. It's good that you're clearly aware of not wanting to become like a lot of the people that feature in The Escapist's relationship threads (thinly-veiled misogyny, ho!), but if you're aware of it you don't need to be paranoid of it to the point of hardly talking to girls even, if they have got boyfriends.

 

[Arsen]

I am one of those aggravated loner types, so I get what you're saying.

You're not being a dick about it. Women these days hardly attempt to measure the worth and overall character of individuals. It's more about a level of self-instilled "comfort" they've built around themselves as a result of our society and how our society expects women to interact.

If this were at least thirty to forty years ago, things would be normal, but alas... more bumfuckery at the hands of the modernist. Once again, it is not your fault.

 

[Melon Hunter]

I really hope you're being sarcastic here, otherwise you're no better than the esteemed Mr. McDonald up there.

Obviously. I'm not about to stereotype and entire gender. I'm not an idiot.

Ah, fair enough, then. I remembered you being one of the more level-headed people on the slew of feminism threads recently; that comment threw me a bit. I wondered if it was an imposter or something =P

 

[Vault101]

If this were at least thirty to forty years ago, things would be normal, but alas... more bumfuckery at the hands of the modernist. Once again, it is not your fault.

"normal"?....normal as in what?

[quote/]Women these days hardly attempt to measure the worth and overall character of individuals[/quote]

yeah..I hear making bizare sweeping generalisations definetly helps with that

[quote/] It's more about a level of self-instilled "comfort" they've built around themselves as a result of our society and how our society expects women to interact.[/quote]
the hell are you talking about?

 

[Vault101]

if a girl has a boyfriend, I'll still flirt with her, if she doesn't flirt back then I tend to not talk to her, as I really only have one mode around girls.

girls arnt worth talking too unless its some flirting?..even pointless flirting?

I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference between being nice and somone flirting with me but I would seem like an odd thing to do...to "intentionally" flirt while in a relatonship...or mabye not for some people

 

[Syzygy23]

I was like you, once (more or less.) Then I ended up having my first (and hopefully only) panic attack when things went south with the girl I'd wanted, and I learned my lesson the hard way.

You can't isolate yourself from the opposite sex--it's unhealthy, and will hurt your confidence when you're trying to make things happen with otherwise unattached ladies. At the same time, though, you have to be able to know when to pull yourself away when things start headed in the "unrequited love" direction.

As an example, one of the first people I met at the beginning of my year abroad was an English girl that happened to live in the apartment next to mine. Things got rolling pretty quickly, but then she met an amazing German guy and went nuts for him, and I immediately went "whoa, I need to steer myself into friendship, or history is going to repeat itself." As it turns out, we've become pretty close as simply friends, and my life has been all the better for it.

So you just need to find a balance, and know when to push forward for romance or back off for friendship.

/\/\ This. If confidence is a problem, there is a magical elixir capable of erasing all fear called "alcohol". Just don't go overboard, mind you.

 

[Terminal Blue]

If this were at least thirty to forty years ago, things would be normal, but alas... more bumfuckery at the hands of the modernist. Once again, it is not your fault.

By "normal", do you happen to mean that women would basically be obligated to sleep with you because they would have been taught from an early age to view men as substitute fathers whose purpose is to materially provide for them in exchange for sex and countless hours of unpaid domestic labour?

I suspect your point about women not measuring worth and character may be somewhat premature..

You have a point, but what about non-sexual displays of attraction such as kissing, holding hands and hugging? These things exist between the states of "friendship" and "lust".

Friendship does not preclude any of those things (no, not even kissing). That's the great thing about friendship, it doesn't have a script.

However, it's very difficult for anyone to be comfortable enough to hug you, let alone kiss you, if they know you're going to latch onto it as their one shining ray of hope that one day you might get into a romantic relationship with them.

What I'm saying here is that you're on the right track, but you're still kind of devaluing friendship. In fact, I think this is actually one of the biggest advantages of cross-gender friendships for guys, in that most guys, despite being technically homosocial, actually tend to have incredibly shallow relationships with each other.

Let's face it, if you're looking for emotional support or comfort, you don't generally go to your guy friends.

 

[The Ubermensch]

My advice to the OP... Get into Wicca, get over monogamous relationships, learn guitar and get a motorcycle. You could probably stand to start working out too.

Now for the record, I got into all those things as part of a spiritual journey. Life during nursing was rough; I was pretty much where you are. I actually tried to abstain... this did not work out... damn Cougars.

Yeah its friggin' shallow, but all the postees are thinking the same thing that I am... I think... you have a confidence issue. Its a phrase that church kinda killed for me when I was young ("I'm not old" my inner child is screaming) is "Do you love your self?". Back then my answer was "yes, but I'm a pudgy fucker". I also kinda wanted to save the world... Manic episode, don't ask. Point is ask yourself if you have low self esteem, if yes, fix.

Some blokes are also psychologically unable to have a female friend, you could be that way inclined but from the sounds of things I'm still leaning towards the "self esteem" thing.

You are defiantly not of the "Do what you need to do mate and get out, snakes with tits the lot of 'em" mind set either.

Women are people too... but I'll be honest... I kinda wanna bang all of my female friends (I'm so eloquent, I know!). Hey! here's a trick, your friend? she has other female friends right? I'm just saying... It can get really messy when you pull out but its a plan.


Edit
But... In saying all that I don't think I've ever romantically loved anyone, I don't think I'm mentally able to. When ever I meet someone I think is kindred they say something really hurtful or ignorant. I'm one to talk, I know, but I normally say ignorant things not out of ignorance but rather to gain context. When I find someone I think balances me out... they go insane.

So; like you OP, I don't think that I've ever had what I would consider a real relationship and what I've found is that, yes you are right, its a societal pressure to be in a relationship as its apparently the default. Once I realised the only thing I really wanted from a relationship (at this stage of my life) was coitus, that the mutual understanding I sought from a partner was impossible due to the inherent nature of the human condition.

People in a relationship, that genuinely love each other have lied to themselves, convincing themselves that the person they are in a relationship with is the Ideal version that they have in their mind. I'm sounding a lot more cynical than I intend to here. It's a beautiful lie, a fantastic lie, but unfortunately the mind can't hold two consciousnesses and so reality will never match up perfectly to the ideal.

I suppose the trick is to find someone who is close enough. While you wait though... be comfortable in your own skin

-- Haruhi I got a little bit depressing there

 

[Archon]

And I'll say I see no reason to think this is true. How did you determine this? If by personal experience then I must point out that our personal experiences tend to be very skewed by who we are around when it comes to things like this and are probably not very good for extrapolating about the general population. I don't see why it would be an issue to be friends with a woman you aren't attracted to. No different for me than being friends with a guy. There's only a difference if she or you makes one. Some people don't.

If you dig into the research papers on these topics, you will find that there have been studies showing that men and women form inter-sex friendships differently. That said, I'm sure you will continue to believe what you've found to be true in your own life. And obviously, everything being offered in an advice column is offered as "in my experience."

What differences are there that are relevant to friendship, though? How do these differences enrich our lives? The major differences I see are physical, and thus pretty much irrelevant unless I want to have sex with someone, and societal. The societal ones are pretty much merely traditional gender roles that I'd say we should try to avoid reinforcing.

I don't believe that the major differences between men and women are societal. There's too much evidence of influence from biology to believe that. Merely look at the impact of sex hormones on behavior in any animal (not just humans).

But let's say the differences are societal. So what? It's the society we live in. The differences are still meaningful. On average, men and women communicate differently. Men and women have different emotional needs. Men and women have different ways of approaching things they are interested in. In my experience, they're very different.

As far as "we should try to avoid reinforcing traditional gender roles", whether you choose to do so or not is up to you. The OP did not ask for advice in how to change our society. He asked for advice on how to get a girlfriend. I do not think attempting to change traditional gender roles is a good method of getting a girlfriend.

Besides, I'd want to account for any differences in people in a person by person approach, not a gender by gender approach. Even if women and men have tendencies towards certain behaviors that aren't due to social pressures, not all men or women would fall into those. To really reflect differences and cherish them, I'd pay attention to the actual person and their personal differences, not assumed differences because of their gender.

Of course. However, you have to get to know the person first in order to learn their specific quirks. No one approaches others as a blank slate.

And what pleasures would I miss by treating a female friend the same as a male one?

There are many. But here's one: The pleasure of being able to connect emotionally in a way men are not capable of doing. Men's brains have fewer connections between the hemispheres of their brain than women do. As a result, women are better at reacting both logically and emotionally at the same time than men are. That's a nice benefit to enjoy.

Here's another one: Women you may be interested in dating will react differently to you if you are in the company of other women than if you are in the company of other men. When you are in the company of men, they'll tend to look for where you stand in hierarchy with the other men. That can lead to status competition. In the company of women, they'll look for how the women feel about you emotionally. That's another nice benefit to enjoy.

Befriending all the women he meets? Um... shouldn't you pick your friends based on whether you get along well with them as opposed to their supposed usefulness as attractive women? Are they really friends if your purpose in befriending them is their usefulness? Sure be friends with some attractive women, but not just because they're attractive and female which befriending all the ones you meet would suggest is the criteria being used =/

The advice was offered in the context of him saying he is meeting lots of women whom he has lots in common with. Obviously I don't mean he should befriend every passing person he bumps into. Let's use context when interpreting each other, eh?

And you seem to be treating all attractive women as interchangeable. Maybe my attractive female friend doesn't go to lots of parties and doesn't like to recommend men to their friends. Maybe they're not someone with a particularly good idea of clothing. And why would an unattractive woman not be able to pick good clothing or have friends to recommend you to if they do that kind of thing?

Those would be attractive qualities then wouldn't they? I'm purposefully not saying "hot" or "pretty". I specifically said "attractive (however you define it)." Attractive could mean "fabulous dresser and sparkling extroverted personality".

Though that last comment makes me realize that I need to hire an entourage of attractive women to help increase my attractiveness to other women. Then I can start an army of attractive women and take over the world! >=D

This actually works.

Erm, but why should I be selecting who my best friend is based on this? Maybe it would make people jump to conclusions, but is that a reason to not have someone be a close friend if you want them to be?

The advice is offered specifically in the context of "if you are trying to get a girlfriend". If you are simply seeking a close friend who can offer emotional support, it's fine. But having a close "friend who is a girl" tends to be an obstacle towards finding a girlfriend. Girlfriends (and wives) tend to want to be the emotional partner of the man they are with. Having another woman as your best friend precludes that. It gets messy fast. Therefore, if getting a girlfriend is your priority, I recommend avoiding having a female BFF.

 

[Phasmal]

Here's another one: Women you may be interested in dating will react differently to you if you are in the company of other women than if you are in the company of other men. When you are in the company of men, they'll tend to look for where you stand in hierarchy with the other men. That can lead to status competition. In the company of women, they'll look for how the women feel about you emotionally. That's another nice benefit to enjoy.

I'm a woman and what is this.
Seriously, I get you're trying to be helpful, but this kind of thinking is just unhelpful.

I've never sat around thinking `Well this dude is clearly lower in the male heirarchy! Screw him. Maybe if he performs a power display or something but TIL THEN I SHUN HIM`.
Women don't think like nature documentaries.

 

[Johnny Impact]

I don't meet many people, male or female. Kind of a hermit.

For ten years I tried to get close to women. My experience was 100% negative. I won't say I could write a book on rejection but I could certainly furnish a robust magazine article.

I don't hate women for this. It would be easier if I could. It was always their decision. They made the decisions they thought would make them happy. It's not their fault those decisions didn't include me.

Now I just assume there is no possibility of ever knowing romantic love (Yeah, I know, gocryemokid.jpg). I talk to all people the same way.

 

[SEXTON HALE]

Does'nt seem like a bad thing but its seems like you just prefer to stay in your comfort zone.
If you prefer hanging with guys over girls I can't blame you sometimes... straight to the moon! but I dont let that put me off making new friends.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

I'm 19 and I have yet to make a real female friend. It's a shame, as I think having a friend I could talk about emotional... stuff with would be rather beneficial to me.

Which is fine, but make sure you're not assuming that's what they're there for. I know several guys who go in with this mentality and what basically happens is that all of their female friends just become an outlet for them to vent their emotional problems to. First and foremost a female friend should be a friend, they're not necessarily any more eager to talk about emotional stuff than your male friends.

I'm not accusing you of anything here, just making sure you're not assuming that female friend = emotional buddy. I have many male friends who'd be much better to talk about those kinds of things than some of my female friends.

OT: Seeing girls as only people to date will really restrict the number of friendships you can have. You say that you can't help feeling like that towards girls that have nerdy interests because they're really rare to find? In that case I'd say don't dismiss that opportunity for friendship. The kind of person you're describing sounds like someone who would be good for a friend, even if not as more than that. If things progress further from that, great, if not at the very least you haven't lost a potential friend in your worrying.

 

[Mr. GameBrain]

Maybe you should be looking at women less as potential relationships, and more as companions.

Me, thats what I am seeking, companions, people I can regularily interact with and can be close to. Gender doesn't come into that.

People that I am just friendly with, I tend to drift away from sadly.

For me, this means I have to try to be a little more trusting, maybe a bit more forward and committed (I don't really trust people that much, which is why I only have 2 or 3 friends that I consider "close", and I freely talk to).

Yeah, I pretty much am physically attracted to almost any decent looking girl, but I always remind myself, "but what is her personality like?", or "lets be realistic here shall we?", when I draw a blank, I can calm myself down a bit.

(Then again, if I like her personality AND her looks, thats when it gets tough. But after a month or so, this love sick puppy just shakes it off and gets on with his life! XD)

Ah, after a while you kind of just get over it, that initial attraction stage is just a body thing, just have to be resilient I guess.

Well, thats the way I deal with stuff like this, if I didn't seperate the physical and the mental, then things would get awkward. heh.

Then again, taking advice from me probably isn't the wisest thing to do, because I am literally afraid of asking women out, (I'm just not confrontational in any form, and I'm not good with rejection/failure/embarassment), and people in general. (Social phobia ftl... (But I AM trying very hard to deal with it now, and I'm making a little progress so thats good))