Is this negative "nice guy" stereotype actually a thing?

[Techno Squidgy]

snip

See this was easier to keep straight in your head when the "Nice Guy" was referred to as Nice Guy[sup]tm[/sup]. The bare bones of the Nice Guy[sup]tm[/sup] stereotype is a person (usually male) who acts nice in the hope of receiving sex and/or a relationship as a reward for their niceness. Yes it does exist. Before I really understood what it meant to be in a relationship I was a Nice Guy[sup]tm[/sup]. If I had to hazard a guess as to where the mindset comes from, I'd say its a combination of a lack of understanding, lack of experience with girls, and poor portrayals of relationships and sex in movies, TV and games. I imagine porn also has a lot to do with it.

Back then I assumed that if I spent a lot of time with a girl, showed her how nice I was, what a great boyfriend I'd make, she'd eventually fall in love with me. This was what I'd been lead to believe by various sources. Reality took over, she didn't fall in love with me and for a while I hated everything. I hated myself for not being good enough, I hated her for not wanting me, I hated the guy she did go out with, I hated media with any kind of love plot/sub-plot, I even hated my cat! Eventually a good friend of mine sat me down and talked through everything with me, he explained where I was wrong, he helped me apologise and make up with the girl, and later on he even helped me get my first real girlfriend.

The Nice Guy[sup]tm[/sup] problem will exist for as long as there are guys who don't understand how attraction works and guys who are unable to recognise that you can be friends with a girl without having sex, being in a relationship or trying to make either of those happen.

[small]To this day I'm still ashamed of how I treated that girl.[/small]

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

As has probably been said by a million people already:

There are two kinds of nice guys.

There are the "nice guys" in quotation marks who really just want to get laid and figure that the best way to do that is be super considerate and try to make the girl feel like she HAS to put out to repay him. These also tend to be the people who whine about the friendzone a lot. These guys are actually jerks underneath who just see kindness as a tool for prying open the legs of girls, others are just desperate for affection and figure that if they hide their flaws under an aura of being super nice, they'll land someone.

Then there are the ACTUAL nice guys. Like myself. I like to be kind to people, I try to be sympathetic and considerate to everyone because that's kinda who I am. And if I'm dating someone, I'll try extra hard to be considerate because I want to make them happy every moment of every day. I don't act nice to get laid. If I did, I probably would have actually had sex with my GF of three years. But we didn't, because I made sure not to put any pressure on her, and let her proceed at the pace she was comfortable with.

The problem is that so many people are taking the first approach, seeing it as a tool to get laid. As a result, more and more women are becoming distrustful of nice people in general, which screws over the actual nice people. Instead of thinking "Wow, this guy is pretty sweet and thoughtful" people are becoming more prone to think "he's being really nice to me....What's he after? He's probably just trying to get something out of me, isn't he?".

And overall, nice people already have it hard by default, since because we're so considerate and stuff we're "safe", and thus not as exciting as people who don't have "kind and compassionate" as their primary character traits. That lack of excitement is what killed that 3 year relationship I just mentioned previously (it was fairly recently and I'm still crushed by it. Mostly because I came to rely on her emotionally a lot).

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

I don't buy it. Maybe if being nice actually worked I could see it being a "tactic" but when has just being "nice" ever gotten anyone laid.

To me the much more likely situation is that this whole "nice guy" phenomena is nothing more than the socially inept doing the only thing they know how to show someone they care, and then overreact when the inevitably get rejected, lashing out because rejection hurts, doubly so when you've built the person up to be something more than they are.

This perfectly sums up the experiences I've had with friends who suffer from the "nice guy" syndrome.

People who lack social/relational experience and behave in the only way they know how, politely.

People in this thread are responding like its a crime to be inexperienced, or like there's some sort of malice behind timid politeness.

Good god thank you for being one of the few who understand the complexities of this situation!

I am one of these supposed "nice guys", and all I find it equates to is never being romantically involved due to an inability to find someone truly attractive without first forming a strong friendship.

I?ve noticed an interesting trend (since I?ve begun dabbling in dating again); ?Friends First?. This is an odd tactic that women take to no doubt guard against predator like inclinations of the stronger sex. They want to build a foundation which would eventually flourish into a spring blossom of romance with genuine chemistry. Of course there are many fundamental flaws within the theory; including wasting time as others have put. I fail to understand why it takes people months of getting to know them as a precursor for anything beyond a mere friendship. And of course, taking this stance while you are intended on finding a suitable partner strikes me as counterproductive. Are you looking for friends? Or more?

One could make the reasonable argument that this no doubt contributes to the ever growing complexity that is concepts such as the *Nice Guy* and *Friend Zone*, as people are attracted to each other for different reasons, and on different time lines. One person could easily be attracted to another faster, and eventually create the conflict within the bounds of their current relationship by suggesting it grow into something more while the other person hasn?t yet (if ever) reached that part of their attraction toward said other.

As the other poster said above, it could merely be a socially behavioral difference between the two individuals based on their upbringing or personal preferences. As an example; I am very forward and frank about my intentions and desires; which could be interpreted as either noble or dickish depending on the person and circumstance. And while rejection rolls of my shoulders rather effortlessly, I have experienced moments of utter distain for the person for their methods or behaviors based on rejections, and of course been privy to the details of others I know.

Do *Nice Guys* exist? Insomuch that men find themselves in a situation in which they could be perceived with that particular persona, then yes. But that being a core of their being or intent? Not nearly to the extent that people believe. But thus is the case with the squeaky wheel syndrome.

 

[Raioken18]

I'm one of said, "Nice Guys". Hopefully an ex nice guy but probably still to some degree.

See I'm nice to most people, I help people with their shopping, carry prams up and down stairs, help up old people who've fallen down etc. I used to think these things were unique in some way because well I never saw anyone else helping these people...

But also I kinda felt I deserved someone way out of my league (I'm like a 2/10, was aiming like a 5/10).

There are a few reasons for this.

1. EVERYONE OVERESTIMATES THEIR LOOKS. I am 6'2 blonde hair blue eyes, lanky, a few freckles, good shoulders and nice skin. But I also have a bit of a potbelly 96cm waist , overweight 100 kg... I basically look like a squinty alien...

2. NO ONE TELLS YOU THAT YOU SUCK. Seriously, no one is mean enough to tell you the truth, so they'll let you keep right on going down that destructive path of ignorance, to save your feelings.

3. NO ONE ELSE IS HELPING BECAUSE YOU DIVED IN FIRST. You saw something happen and ran towards it like a rabbid dog, no one else even had time to react because you saw an opportunity.

4. YOU ARE ELITIST. You pick and choose the people you help. You help the kind old lady, but not the smelly old homeless lady. If you are going to be an all around nice guy... it's basically impossible to help everyone. Also everyone knows this and that's why they make fun of you for being a try hard.

5. BEING A "GOOD GUY" DOESN'T MAKE YOU A GOOD GUY TO DATE. Self explanatory, heroics don't make you any more attractive unless your saving orphans from a burning building and even then it's only if you already have a 6 pack.

Lastly, being considerate is a neutral talent. By that I mean it doesn't increase your attractiveness to others, that's what a lot of us nice guys fail to understand. However because of this belief system it means that this link has been occurring between guys being nice and expecting something in return, even if it's just a few extra points in their attractiveness.

If you really want a good looking woman, use that energy and go to the gym, eat healthy and take care of yourself. Because that's what douchebag mc'gee over their is doing and he has 3 girls on each arm and could beat you to a pulp with his bare pinky. Only... that's not really true, douchebag mc'gee gives to charity because he can afford it, he has a nice car and takes care of his disabled sister, he's nice to everyone... except you because why be nice to the snivelling neckbeard with the hots for his girlfriend.

Anyway, if you are a nice guy, try and get a nice girl on your level. She's probably there somewhere and you've overlooked her because you think she's a bit plain. She's probably a bit overweight and kind of a neckbeard too but that's alright because you both have the same interests and can be happy.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

2. NO ONE TELLS YOU THAT YOU SUCK. Seriously, no one is mean enough to tell you the truth, so they'll let you keep right on going down that destructive path of ignorance, to save your feelings.

This. This is basically what killed my relationship.

My ex left me because she hadn't been feeling the romance for a while, she said. Looking back, I saw a sign of that about a year ago. But she bounced back, so I assumed it was just stress and everyone I talked to said I shouldn't worry. Unfortunately, it wasn't stress and I SHOULD have asked her more about what was going on. She was just forcing herself to try to bring those feelings back on her own because, in her own words she said the day she left me I was "the most perfect, awesome wonderful person" she knew, and she didn't want to ruin what we had, or hurt me, so she decided to deal with it on her own. And it failed. Which led to me being a lot more hurt since it came out of nowhere and I didn't even have a chance to even TRY to fix it.

If she had said something earlier, we could have maybe tried to fix it, or if it was clear it wasn't working out, then I'd have at least had some kind of warning and we could have split more mutually.

Instead, out of fear of hurting me, she didn't tell me about the leak in the boat until it was too late and she had to jump in the lifeboat, leaving me surprised and hurt on a sinking ship with no time to prepare.

Wanna save the friendship since she's super funny and fun to be around, but since it wasn't a mutual split and more of a dump, It's not easy. >_>

In the future, I'm going to be blunt with future dates and tell them "If there is a problem, even if you think voicing it will hurt me or the relationship, for the love of mod SAY SOMETHING. I'd rather hear about how I'm doing something wrong or you're not feeling it anymore while the problem is fresh, rather than a year later when the problem has eaten away at you enough to want to leave me. It's a lot less painful, and a lot more fixable that way."

Anyway, if you are a nice guy, try and get a nice girl on your level. She's probably there somewhere and you've overlooked her because you think she's a bit plain. She's probably a bit overweight and kind of a neckbeard too but that's alright because you both have the same interests and can be happy.

Fine enough by me, I don't mind plain looks! I care way more about the mind than looks.

My ex was cute, but not beautiful. I didn't mind at all. (actually, I didn't like her looks much to begin with. I fell in love with her mind and wit first, THEN I started to appreciate the rest).

So yeah, that's not my problem at all. XD

 

[Xanarch]

Just to throw my deerstalker into the ring, I think it's possible the underlying issue is that "nice guys" buy into the farcical notion of "the one" rather than recognising it's more like the one in twenty. Go on dates. Lots of dates. Date people you're not particularly interested in, date several different people at the same time, date online, ask the cutie reading Game of Thrones at the coffee shop if the seat next to them is free, etc. Playing the field isn't being a jerk, it's risk-hedging. Want love? Not everyone has it to give, and there's lots of people who will keep you around just to give themselves a boost with your attention when they're feeling down or unattractive or unloved. It's the fixation that causes problems. If you fixate, then you're not a "nice guy" you're a friendly obsessive stalker.

 

[Blow_Pop]

I have my doubts whether the 'nice guy' phenomena is as common as some people on the Internet make out, maybe it's more of an American thing but I've honestly never met someone in real life who fits the 'nice guy' stereotype as commonly described or any sort of person who wears fedoras as a habit, 'nice' or not.

I envy you and everyone else who hasn't had to deal with it off the internet. Granted, due to my lack of wanting social interaction lately that I don't go out often but even the places I regularly go like the library I've met NiceGuys[sup]TM[/sup] who mostly actually wear trilbys and call them fedoras because they are uncultured swine and don't know the difference(but that's beside the point) who get pissed that because they picked up a book I accidentally dropped before I could get to it that I'm not falling all over myself to ask them on a date. You know because someone who looks female obviously HAS to always want to be in a relationship and go on dates. And always automatically has to be straight. and only says that they like women because they are just trying to get a certain kind of boy to notice them. These are all things I've been accused of. I've found a lot of NiceGuys[sup]TM[/sup] also tend to read tips by PUAs (Pick Up Artists) on how to act around women and use "tricks that never fail" except when they do because someone sees right through them. And then the PUA or NiceGuy[sup]TM[/sup] gets angry and usually winds up delving into calling that person a ***** or a slut in hopes to get them to go out with them. Southern California has quite a lot of NiceGuys[sup]TM[/sup].

Act like a human and you'll draw people who like you.

That's like telling someone with a mental illness don't be crazy and you'll be fine.

Not really. As a person with mental illness it IS possible to act like a human and draw people to you. Acting like a human should be a basic thing that *MOST* everyone in society should be able to do. Yes there are some disabilities and such that prevent people from it but hell, I know people who have severe autism who can act more human than NiceGuys[sup]TM[/sup]

Nice guy is a label used as an analogy to people some might consider safe, boring, or at worst consistent and therefore predictable. A nice guy will excuse himself politely when cutting in front of someone. These kinds of people are passively ignored, especially by women with moderate to high availability (or value if you prefer), such as never married or no children. Thing is a lot of is is walking on eggshells; double standards exist in western culture that favors the bully, the cad, the "bad boy", but this also plays on stereotypes that are often more true than untrue. So one must apparently never speak freely regarding the issue lest one be labeled a chauvinist misogynistic pig.

I'm going to purposefully ignore a lot of the comments you made for my own mental health reasons and because a lot of the rebuttals will delve into "well you're a stupid asshole" from one of us to the other and I really don't have the energy to deal with it and address what I can with my own experience.

Yes, nice guy is a "safe" label typically. Genuine nice guys are hard to find. I have a few of them as friends. However, again this might just be because I'm in Southern California, NiceGuys[sup]TM[/sup] are easy to find. And they annoy and piss a lot of us off. I'm one of those people that if someone is genuinely being nice, 90% of the time (depending on how busy I am or in a rush I am..If I'm in a rush I'll do basic polite small chit chat and excuse myself from conversation to get to where I need to be) I go and strike up a conversation. I've had people mistake my preferences for "bad boys" just because I tend to get attracted more to people with piercings, tattoos, "non-normal" hairstyles, and actual personalities who when I talk to them, SHOW their personality. But people with their judgments tend to see anyone like that as a "bad boy/girl". And a lot of us hate the double standards and dislike bullies but some people only see what they want to see which is a huge problem especially in Western society...

1) Women in general dislike considerate people for some reason. But why? Even if the whole "women like jerks" stereotype applies, that stereotype is aimed at being partners. "creep, avoid" means that even acquainting yourself with such a person would be out of the question, which seems crazy to me.

No. No we don't. Women actually do like considerate people. But as I mentioned above people stereotype and judge without really knowing and only go on what limited information they have on the people involved and make assumptions from there. Anyone who gives off a creep type vibe, most of us avoid because we've had bad experience with people like that. I've met people of varying gender identities who give me that vibe and I avoid them whenever possible. Yeah some of them are friends of my friends but I've asked my friends to try and avoid inviting me to things that they will be at. I don't understand people who try and control others by saying who they can/can't associate with. Unless the person in question is being abused in some way by the other person then I can see stepping in but even then people are able to make their own decisions and the least you can do is just accept it.

2) We're not actually talking about considerate people at all, when we say "nice guys". Only, then what are we talking about? Jerks who, on the surface, display some sort of concern for the person they're trying to win over, while really being completely egotistical? Congratulations, that's like half the men on this planet, and from what I've seen during school, girls have no problem with such guys at all(as long as they're good looking, mind). Or does this really not have anything at all to do with being "nice" or not being "nice"?

Honestly, this whole thing confuses me.

We are talking about NiceGuys[sup]TM[/sup]. The guys who basically act like women are vending machines that if you put in enough "niceness" tokens you'll get sex with them. And this isn't actually just limited to guys. I've met women and non binary identified people who are like this too. However, the majority still seems to be guys in my experience. Egotistical people of all gender identities exist everywhere. It's not just limited to men. This more has to do with people who identify themselves as nice just to get something out of someone else. Hell, the most I ever expect out of anyone is if I hold a door for you or pick something up or help you in some way (whether they are capable of doing it themselves or not) is a thank you/a polite smile/a nod my way in thanks. And that, to me, is being a decent person. And Western society tells women that all they should care about for men is that they look good and make a lot of money (this is, naturally an oversimplification of it but it helps with the point). Western society also tells women that they don't need to be smart. They just need to look good and then they'll get some hunky guy who makes money to marry them and be set for life. So what you have seen during school is just what women get shoved down their throats from society in general. We get it from all forms of media. We get it from parents. It happens. Sometimes it takes a while for women to realise that more than that matters. Sometimes they never realise it. It's a fact of life.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Just to throw my deerstalker into the ring, I think it's possible the underlying issue is that "nice guys" buy into the farcical notion of "the one" rather than recognising it's more like the one in twenty. Go on dates. Lots of dates. Date people you're not particularly interested in, date several different people at the same time, date online, ask the cutie reading Game of Thrones at the coffee shop if the seat next to them is free, etc. Playing the field isn't being a jerk, it's risk-hedging. Want love? Not everyone has it to give, and there's lots of people who will keep you around just to give themselves a boost with your attention when they're feeling down or unattractive or unloved. It's the fixation that causes problems. If you fixate, then you're not a "nice guy" you're a friendly obsessive stalker.

This is good advice. There is no "one". "Soul mates" exist, but not on a one-to-one ratio. There are lots of people who will match you well. Never assume it's one or nothing. That's the road to pain and being abused or totally heartbroken.

Unless you're in a committed serious relationship, there's no problem with being open and meeting lots of new people. If one works out, great. If some don't, well, maybe you made a new friend. If several work out...that's unlikely, but you'll probably have a good idea which one is better for you.

(BTW, my parents gave me that advice while I was IN A LONG TERM RELATIONSHIP. I wasn't pleased. Now that I'm single, though, I'm doing it)

 

[Mutie]

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For me it quite simply comes down to this:

I am not a very sexual being.

If I wanted to "get laid" I could quite easily do so... But I don't want that. I seek a spark, a connection. A friend with whom I can share in all.

I've found it in perfect balance in the past and simply been sundered by my own anxieties, lost a dear friend. The second (and recent) time it happened the feelings would seem to be not as mutual, though it is widely considered that she was simply running from them. I had already accepted that a relationship would not blossom, that this was one of my closest and most trusted friends: but it was her who then opened up to me and let me see her own anxieties, revealing those which she shared with me.

But then she tried to shine a stoplight into me, she tried to illuminate the room and read the writing on the walls. I had, by this point, shared in equal quantity but her search was not a tender one. She did so from the stance of friendship yet sought far deeper things. I cannot let someone in so deep; some doors should not be opened so freely, even to close friends. She muddled me, mixed me around and saw me twist myself into something I abhor... But as opposed to clarifying her intent, she used the confidence she had gained through our shared revelations to push me away. She did not realise it, for she had never before had an interest taken in her nor cause to break a heart, but she butchered me.

They say you cannot love another if you cannot love yourself. This is not true. It simply makes the love you feel for another oh that much more intense. Especially when they offer something which you lack, when you think they could make you better somehow. I now know this to be a falsity.

I have come to the conclusion that I cannot have such a relationship, that I am too far gone. If someone wishes to see my darkness then they must come into the room and share in it with me, not burn me with invading lights. I now seek solace amongst those who reflect me... Perhaps it is a bad idea to mix darkness with darkness, but it is only in the afflicted that I find proper understanding. Who knows, maybe we can make our own light.

 

[sageoftruth]

Well I have heard many many girls say how they don't go for looks. ''I just want someone fun who can make me laugh''. Same girls then trail after built men regardless of if they are decent or not. They over look guys who are fun and do make them laugh because they are not muscular and good looking. Maybe you are just honest about it most girls aren't.

Captcha: ''love is blind'' . . . . . apparently not

I don't think most girls are being dishonest.

Just like being nice is a pretty basic standard in behaviour, being attracted to someone is kind of the basic standard for a relationship.

If when I was single you asked me what I wanted from a guy, I would have said I wasn't going for looks, I would just want a guy who liked games as much as I do and wasn't a dick. That describes a lot of guys.
If there were two guys who fit that description and I was only attracted to one of them, I don't think it would be dishonest of me to go out with the one I was attracted to.

Most people mean they're not JUST going for looks, but they're always gonna date someone who they find attractive.

Definitely. People who complain about that stuff need to try and recall the last time they asked an unattractive person out.

done that, my last tow girlfriends weren't all that attractive, but i was fine with it, because i care about creating an emotional connection rather than a physical one.

I tried that once (or twice). We're still friends, but we just couldn't achieve intimacy. Still, your post reminds me, what about the guys who are looking for an emotional connection instead of a physical one? I have a friend or two who basically just wants someone to be there for him. I guess it doesn't really matter what you're looking to get out of it, since the "nice guy" approach is naive and immature either way.

 

[Trunkage]

As has probably been said by a million people already:

There are two kinds of nice guys.

There are the "nice guys" in quotation marks who really just want to get laid and figure that the best way to do that is be super considerate and try to make the girl feel like she HAS to put out to repay him. These also tend to be the people who whine about the friendzone a lot. These guys are actually jerks underneath who just see kindness as a tool for prying open the legs of girls, others are just desperate for affection and figure that if they hide their flaws under an aura of being super nice, they'll land someone.

Then there are the ACTUAL nice guys. Like myself. I like to be kind to people, I try to be sympathetic and considerate to everyone because that's kinda who I am. And if I'm dating someone, I'll try extra hard to be considerate because I want to make them happy every moment of every day. I don't act nice to get laid. If I did, I probably would have actually had sex with my GF of three years. But we didn't, because I made sure not to put any pressure on her, and let her proceed at the pace she was comfortable with.

The problem is that so many people are taking the first approach, seeing it as a tool to get laid. As a result, more and more women are becoming distrustful of nice people in general, which screws over the actual nice people. Instead of thinking "Wow, this guy is pretty sweet and thoughtful" people are becoming more prone to think "he's being really nice to me....What's he after? He's probably just trying to get something out of me, isn't he?".

And overall, nice people already have it hard by default, since because we're so considerate and stuff we're "safe", and thus not as exciting as people who don't have "kind and compassionate" as their primary character traits. That lack of excitement is what killed that 3 year relationship I just mentioned previously (it was fairly recently and I'm still crushed by it. Mostly because I came to rely on her emotionally a lot).

Honestly after reading this part of the loss of romance is probably you NOT trying to pressure her. There's this weird thing where to feel good a female needs you to chase her, even when you've been in a relationship for ages. I dont mean making her, just chasing her still.

There is another unfortunate problem directly associated with this stereotype. Females are expected to get some for sex: money, love, a baby or relationship. I don't know why this happens but its created by society and it leads to males thinking there is a 'key' to get inside someone's pants

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Honestly after reading this part of the loss of romance is probably you NOT trying to pressure her. There's this weird thing where to feel good a female needs you to chase her, even when you've been in a relationship for ages. I dont mean making her, just chasing her still.

Yeah, that's my thoughts too.

When I touched on the subject the day of the breakup though, she denied that vehemently, saying I "did everything perfect".

Still definitely think that was a big factor in her losing the romantic feelings, though. There's no way I did "everything perfectly" if her feelings faded.

EDIT:
I'm definitely glad I didn't pressure her. That's the MO of assholes and pricks.

This post is more along the lines of "Maybe since I was too passive about the physical side of the relationship, that's what caused the romance to fade".

 

[Phasmal]

Honestly after reading this part of the loss of romance is probably you NOT trying to pressure her. There's this weird thing where to feel good a female needs you to chase her, even when you've been in a relationship for ages. I dont mean making her, just chasing her still.

Yeah, that's my thoughts too.

When I touched on the subject the day of the breakup though, she denied that vehemently, saying I "did everything perfect".

Still definitely think that was a big factor in her losing the romantic feelings, though. There's no way I did "everything perfectly" if her feelings faded.

First of all, I'm pretty sure not pressuring your girlfriend for sex didn't ruin your relationship. Pressuring people for sex is a shitty thing to do.

Secondly, sometimes people grow apart- it doesn't have to be anyone's fault. Feelings change.

Honestly after reading this part of the loss of romance is probably you NOT trying to pressure her. There's this weird thing where to feel good a female needs you to chase her, even when you've been in a relationship for ages. I dont mean making her, just chasing her still.

There is another unfortunate problem directly associated with this stereotype. Females are expected to get some for sex: money, love, a baby or relationship. I don't know why this happens but its created by society and it leads to males thinking there is a 'key' to get inside someone's pants

What is this I don't even.
Maybe I just have the weirdest relationship ever but I can never seem to relate to any of the advice you guys give each other.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

First of all, I'm pretty sure not pressuring your girlfriend for sex didn't ruin your relationship. Pressuring people for sex is a shitty thing to do.

Secondly, sometimes people grow apart- it doesn't have to be anyone's fault. Feelings change.

I'm definitely glad I didn't pressure her, since, as you said, it's a shitty thing to do.

My reply was more along the lines of "Maybe since I was too passive about the physical side of the relationship, that's what caused the romance to fade".

And while yeah, feelings do change, I'm still looking for reasons. I'm having trouble accepting that something that was going pretty well just stopped going well at some point with no rhyme or reason.

 

[Phasmal]

I'm definitely glad I didn't pressure her, since, as you said, it's a shitty thing to do.

My reply was more along the lines of "Maybe since I was too passive about the physical side of the relationship, that's what caused the romance to fade".

And while yeah, feelings do change, I'm still looking for reasons. I'm having trouble accepting that something that was going pretty well just stopped going well at some point with no rhyme or reason.

Oh, good, I'm glad I misunderstood you. XD

It does suck that you don't get a reason, really, because I suppose that would help moving forward.

But if you do think that you were doing everything right, maybe you were, and you guys just grew apart.
I know relationships can be hard once you get out of the initial romantic stage. You have to both work hard to make it work.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

But if you do think that you were doing everything right, maybe you were, and you guys just grew apart.
I know relationships can be hard once you get out of the initial romantic stage. You have to both work hard to make it work.

I think the main thing is that since I don't have a super strong libido, I was fine with a mostly emotional relationship instead of physical and was satisfied even when the feelings faded, she wasn't satisfied with that.

*shrug* Still wish she'd have said something. Would have saved a LOT of pain.

 

[Sansha]

Hmmm... I think you fail to see my issue >.< I find it difficult to find someone attractive without knowing them as a person. An odd trait, but one that has saved me from the rather depraved culture we live in for the mot part... Bare in mind, this has only ever happened to me twice. And the first time it was fully mutual. The other times I either clicked with a lass initial or was in a period of celibacy.

I think you kind of need an attitude adjustment. Your mention of the 'depraved culture' makes me think you have a very negative outlook on what's considered normal relationship dynamics.

However - here's how my girlfriend I worked: we met online, spent two months getting to know one another, and after that we met up as a simple first meeting, which turned into a date and ended with us getting together.

So your perception of attractiveness isn't entirely misplaced; following that standard has led me to my relationship which will likely end in marriage.
But we don't live in a depraved culture. People get in and out of relationships, fuck, swear and drink at paces they themselves are comfortable with, and while it's true people are becoming more liberated in themselves and their vices, I don't think it's a bad thing - merely people finding out that other people do it too, so it's not that bad.

tl;dr - you're not wrong, but lighten up.

This perfectly sums up the experiences I've had with friends who suffer from the "nice guy" syndrome.

People who lack social/relational experience and behave in the only way they know how, politely.

People in this thread are responding like its a crime to be inexperienced, or like there's some sort of malice behind timid politeness.

Because it's fucking weird, and people don't like what they don't understand or is normal. And really, the majority of women think it's creepy and weird, and I agree.
Women don't want to be immediately put on a pedestal and showered with old-timey Shakespearean poetic romance and chivalry, they want to be treated like people, rather than things that exchange sex for chivalrous charm.
And they especially don't want someone to vomit that kind of shit and then get upset when it doesn't work. I heard of one case where a guy tried this on a girl, and she told him in no uncertain terms leave her alone or she'd kick his ass, and he called her a 'harpy that delights in the breaking of a gentleman's heart'.
It's fucking pathetic, and the ones like this make girls genuinely afraid of the type. So they should be.

 

[KissingSunlight]

Genuine nice guys are hard to find. I have a few of them as friends.

So, nice guys complaining about being friendzoned are sexist assholes. Are they assholes because they wanted to be more than friends with you?


This is why we need to keep in mind that the internet is a grossly distorted echo chamber that has no basis in reality.

We are criticizing people who are lamenting about unrequited love. Who haven't had a crush on someone and felt heartbroken that the other person didn't feel the same way?

Seriously, I think the whole demonization of "Nice Guys" and "Friendzone" is just an excuse to rage against other people while trying to have the moral high ground to do so.

If I remember correctly, the whole "nice guy" demonization started with a blog on Jezebel. It has been used ever since as a justification to hate all men. The aggressive jerks and now nice guys.

 

[spartan231490]

So I've read this article [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/criticalintel/11083-The-History-And-Abuse-of-The-Fedora], which for the most part seemed interesting and believable enough.

However, one particular statement confused me, and I suppose it is something that somewhat relates to previous discussions on this subforum.

Women have largely pegged this uniform as belonging to the so-called "nice guys" that think being decent to a woman is a ticket into her bed. I'm sorry about that, but it's true. (For what it's worth, I asked two women outside the gaming community what kind of men they associate black fedoras with. Answer: Creep, avoid immediately.)

Wait, really? There is such a stereotype? Honestly, I know of many stereotypes relating to nerd culture, and I know that "normal" women tend to be less than impressed with a lot of these stereotypes. But the quoted statement, if the rest of the article hadn't been so believable, I'd just call bullshit on that. As it is, maybe there's something I don't understand, maybe somebody can shed light on this for me.

Let's start here: Somebody is a thoughtful and considerate person("nice guy"). Their attempts to sway women go along the same lines - After all, in order to win somebody's affection, isn't the most sensible approach to show them that you care about them and respect them?

Now here's the first contradiction. Such a person would not believe their actions to be a "ticket" to anybody's bed. After all, if they truly are considerate, they know full well that the other person has their own feelings and preferences. They would consider their own "being nice" simply as a way to show their own interest for that person, and then leave it to the other person to decide how much of that interest they wish to return.

Keeping that in mind, there seem to be only two possibilities:

1) Women in general dislike considerate people for some reason. But why? Even if the whole "women like jerks" stereotype applies, that stereotype is aimed at being partners. "creep, avoid" means that even acquainting yourself with such a person would be out of the question, which seems crazy to me.

2) We're not actually talking about considerate people at all, when we say "nice guys". Only, then what are we talking about? Jerks who, on the surface, display some sort of concern for the person they're trying to win over, while really being completely egotistical? Congratulations, that's like half the men on this planet, and from what I've seen during school, girls have no problem with such guys at all(as long as they're good looking, mind). Or does this really not have anything at all to do with being "nice" or not being "nice"?

Honestly, this whole thing confuses me.

It's a bit hyperbolic. The stereotype is very prevalent, people who are actually like this do not happen. What does happen, albeit very very rarely, is that after giving genuine kindness, the individual grows attracted to the other, and then feels entitled to return affection. I want to stress that, although keyboard warriors and armchair psychologists will sling this stereotype at a large number of people, this is actually very rare.