Is this negative "nice guy" stereotype actually a thing?

[wulf3n]

The link I gave wouldn't be useful for that anyways, if you bothered to check it.

Not that it matters, since next to no-one actually needs it.

I checked it, but google by itself provided for a better joke than a self help book.

Social anxiety generally speaking, doesn't stem from a lack of knowledge, but rather a difficulty in recognizing social cues, discerning emotion/facial expressions/body language, or sometimes just a crippling fear of interacting with people.

While it's entirely possible for people to overcome it, simply knowing on an intellectual level how to interact with others, doesn't mean they're going to be able to do it.

 

[lacktheknack]

The link I gave wouldn't be useful for that anyways, if you bothered to check it.

Not that it matters, since next to no-one actually needs it.

I checked it, but google by itself provided for a better joke than a self help book.

Social anxiety generally speaking, doesn't stem from a lack of knowledge, but rather a difficulty in recognizing social cues, discerning emotion/facial expressions/body language, or sometimes just a crippling fear of interacting with people.

While it's entirely possible for people to overcome it, simply knowing on an intellectual level how to interact with others, doesn't mean they're going to be able to do it.

That's what "The Brain That Changes Itself" is about. Taking what you know and getting so that your brain can actually process it by removing old thought processes and replacing them.

 

[marioandsonic]

Meh, I TRY to be a nice guy... but 'nice' is a term misused over and over again.

Opening the door for someone and just saying hi is being friendly. Telling a girl/guy how you think they're attractive or want to compliment them is flirting or making moves regardless of intention. Being nice really just means "To act with kindness on a daily basis". You should be nice because it's the right thing to do rather then wanting something out of it.

I admit... I am not that different from most guys. I'm flawed, have issues to overcome, I wish to be a better person, and act as good-willed towards man as possible. Luckily, I have done well so far but mistakes can happen at anytime. Heck, I don't blame women for feeling like overly nice guys are up to no good. Because some actually are just like that... they want to treat the girl with respect/kindness only to lure them into a position. When I say position, I mean to get them as a girlfriend or friend with benefits. Either way.

As for what girls want- it really depends on the person, not their gender. There are guys whom want to date Asian women only while there are girls whom want to date buff guys. Yet, Cindy over there really doesn't know what she wants and experiments by dating different guys. She ends up dating the most honest guy over the nice guys. Matthew over there usually likes loose girls whom are sexual but he falls hard for a country girl that is happy-go-lucky and settles. Seems to be a fantasy like story, but it happens. ALL depends on your character, and what you end up liking over the other qualities.

Let's not forget... that, people in general don't know what they want. Have you ever offered someone to try something and they dislike it by assumptions, only to end up trying it- and love it afterwards? Well, people are like that with relationships. Girls might feel the bad boy can be changed and yet they end up getting hurt in the end. However, the nice guy is just to friendly and doesn't let the girl make choices... resorting to her leaving from feeling like a child in the end. Very subjective, yet true.... we have to just find the right person for us. And again, don't be nice to score something with anyone- be nice because the world could use it from all the negativity that lingers. That is all.

This. All of this.

In general, I try to be a decent person to everyone, not just women.

My biggest flaw with trying to attract women isn't trying to be "too nice", or my looks (at least I HOPE not...), but that when I see a women I want to try and get to know, I get cold feet. I'm not very good at striking up a conversation with total strangers.

But that's something I have to get over, I suppose.

 

[wulf3n]

That's what "The Brain That Changes Itself" is about. Taking what you know and getting so that your brain can actually process it by removing old thought processes and replacing them.

I don't understand the first part of that sentence, but overall I'm not disagreeing that people can change, just that It's not as simple as reading up on proper etiquette.

If the Wikipedia summary of "The Brain That Changes Itself" is anything to go by, then the book implies that it takes months (approx 10) of constant practice (2-3hrs per day) for the brain to properly retain new processes. Not an easy task.

 

[lacktheknack]

That's what "The Brain That Changes Itself" is about. Taking what you know and getting so that your brain can actually process it by removing old thought processes and replacing them.

I don't understand the first part of that sentence, but overall I'm not disagreeing that people can change, just that It's not as simple as reading up on proper etiquette.

If the Wikipedia summary of "The Brain That Changes Itself" is anything to go by, then the book implies that it takes months (approx 10) of constant practice (2-3hrs per day) for the brain to properly retain new processes. Not an easy task.

Self improvement is the opposite of easy. If it was easy, everyone would be adept at everything.

 

[wulf3n]

Self improvement is the opposite of easy. If it was easy, everyone would be adept at everything.

Which is why I took exception to the "just stop being you" advice, as it implies that it's simple, when it really isn't.

 

[mrdude2010]

Basically, many self-professed "nice guys" have absolutely nothing to offer aside from being nice. Being nice isn't hard or impressive. It should be a bare minimum, not the entirety of your appeal.

 

[Supdupadog]

Naw, being genuinely nice totally get's you all kinda of good crap. Jobs, food, friends, friends who let you pork them on Saturdays.

Just that "Nice guys" ain't legitimately nice, as other people pointed out.

They're always manipulative and trying to worm their way into something, and people will find out they are doing it.

 

[WOPR]

I have a trilby... It's white and I wear it with my white suit.
Why? Because it rains here and people insist on outdoor weddings and celebrations because it's the coast.
Am I some creepy white knighting douche? Not at all!

Spoiler: Although...

I will admit when I'm working my "part time job" as I like to call it, people can see me as creepy... But my part time job is an ethical hacker for the local credit union, of course it would be creepy if some guy in a suit walked into your coffee shop asked you if you had wifi, ordered a smoothie then started robbing a bank.

 

[Plasticaprinae]

"Im a nice guy in the friendzone. Girls only like jerks" Phrases like this make my skin crawl. I think they just come from frustrated men who blame the women for not returning their feelings when the women obviously aren't interested. I think they just need to move on. I much prefer the phrase "unreciprocated love" since it just means the feelings aren't there. "Friendzone" is saying "other person forced me into a place I don't like!". Calling other men "jerks" is also just jealous sentiment. I was in love with a girl who was interested in a man. Even though I knew it was illogical, I hated him and avoided him. I did not go on the internet and call him a jerk though, because name calling is just stupid.

 

[Shock and Awe]

Alright gentlemen, I'm about to lay down some really complex shit right here, so try and stay with me.

Women belong to the species Homo Sapien. In most places they are actually regarded as people

Sarcasm aside, it always kind of irks me when I hear people talking about women like they're some sort of different entity then men. Like male and female are two different subspecies or something. More often then not, women are the same as men, not different. The only psychological differences are superficial 9/10 times and often simply the result of social conditioning, not sexual dimorphism. So for future reference, when considering why a girl acts in a certain manner, don't think of it as "why is that girl acting that way?", think of it as "why is that person acting that way?".

/rant

OT: Its because the the stereotype mentioned in the article; the so called "nice guys" from what I've seen both in real life and on the internet are a very real thing. There are a lot of guys who think that being a gentleman some how sets them apart from other men or makes them deserve a relationship with women. Both of these are false. The former because most guys I know I generally polite individuals who do all the gentlemanly things one would expect. Though I am in ROTC and live in the south so maybe my sample is biased. As for the latter its ironic because acting like a gentleman to get laid means you are neither a gentleman nor nice. You are just fake as hell. And women, seeing as they are people with all the cognitive ability that comes with it; can generally see through that.

You want to get girls? Its really not that difficult. Be nice, treat them like people, and don't wait until they are dating someone to ask them out.

BAM

 

[Ihateregistering1]

"Im a nice guy in the friendzone. Girls only like jerks" Phrases like this make my skin crawl. I think they just come from frustrated men who blame the women for not returning their feelings when the women obviously aren't interested. I think they just need to move on. I much prefer the phrase "unreciprocated love" since it just means the feelings aren't there. "Friendzone" is saying "other person forced me into a place I don't like!". Calling other men "jerks" is also just jealous sentiment. I was in love with a girl who was interested in a man. Even though I knew it was illogical, I hated him and avoided him. I did not go on the internet and call him a jerk though, because name calling is just stupid.

In a lot of ways I agree with you, but at the same time, I also feel a lot of sympathy for guys who don't get that the 'nice guy' approach doesn't always work, or that just behaving in a manner they think is supposed to work doesn't get the results they thought it would. When you get down to it, we're really overexposed to this idea that the "nice guy" always wins in the end.

Think about it, how many movies or tv shows have you seen where this is the romantic plot? 'Shy nice guy with a heart of gold is in love with super-attractive girl, but she only sees him as a friend and she's dating stereotypical jerk/frat boy/football player who treats her poorly. Then finally, she eventually sees the light and realizes that heart of gold nice guy is the man for her and she dumps Douchey McFootball, and she and nice guy live happily ever after.'

You see it ALL the time in movies and TV, so guys are essentially brought up with this idea that all you have to do is be ridiculously nice and polite and (let's be honest) submissive, and in the end the girl will come to you. It's not necessarily right that guys get angry about when what they've brought up to believe is going to work doesn't, but I understand their frustration.

Here's what I sort of equate it to: imagine if you had a woman who was overweight and wasn't getting asked out on a lot of dates by guys. She's been brought up her whole life to believe that being thin=more interest from men. So she starts exercising more and eating right and loses a ton of weight, and is fitting into those size 2 dresses. And...she gets asked out even less than she did previously.

Does her exercising and eating right and losing weight mean she automatically 'deserves' to have more guys ask her out? Of course not. But do I understand her being frustrated and angry that what she's been brought up to believe her whole life isn't that simple and doesn't really work that way? Absolutely.

 

[Mutie]

I am one of these supposed "nice guys", and all I find it equates to is never being romantically involved due to an inability to find someone truly attractive without first forming a strong friendship. This, combined with the fact that I treat everyone with an equal respect regardless of gender, race or sexuality, makes me a terrible, modern, phony, pansy "liberal". Funny how stuff works like that... But alas, if sex is the issue here then count me out. At the end of the day, the lonelier you get, the more difficult it is to want to try.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Hah, sorry you guys.

No worries! You said it well so you left less for the rest of us to do. ^^

This topic always rubs me up the wrong way after dealing with my own `nice guy` years back. I lost a good friend to this kind of asshattery, out of nowhere, and everyone told me it was my fault.

That sucks. Particularly the part where they blamed you. I would ask for details, but I can take an educated guess having dealt with think kinda thing before to one degree or another.

 

[Vegosiux]

The "creepy nice guy" isn't thought of as creepy because of social anxiety. It's because of feelings of fakeness. "Stepford" behaviour, if you will.

Unless you assume in advance the "niceness" is fake, then it takes a while before you can ascertain that. I mean, I'm a cynic myself, but assuming hidden agendas the moment someone you've never met before does something nice for you gets really exhausting eventually.

If it's consistent behavior, then I get what you mean (i.e., a guy consistently trying to "suck up" then getting offended/resentful when all he gets is a "thank you"). But you can't tell fakeness before observing people for at least a while.

Of course I'm not denying that these "fake nice guys" exist. But I do wonder if they're as common in reality as they are on the internet.

At any rate, if your social default is somehow in "Stepford Mode", then I don't having any qualms in telling you to find a way to change that.

Fair point, but "Stepford mode" can be a coping mechanism, and it's sometimes hard to tell it from simple introversion, again especially at a passing glance, it only becomes apparent once you see such behavior is consistent.

 

[lacktheknack]

The "creepy nice guy" isn't thought of as creepy because of social anxiety. It's because of feelings of fakeness. "Stepford" behaviour, if you will.

Unless you assume in advance the "niceness" is fake, then it takes a while before you can ascertain that. I mean, I'm a cynic myself, but assuming hidden agendas the moment someone you've never met before does something nice for you gets really exhausting eventually.

If it's consistent behavior, then I get what you mean (i.e., a guy consistently trying to "suck up" then getting offended/resentful when all he gets is a "thank you"). But you can't tell fakeness before observing people for at least a while.

Of course I'm not denying that these "fake nice guys" exist. But I do wonder if they're as common in reality as they are on the internet.

At any rate, if your social default is somehow in "Stepford Mode", then I don't having any qualms in telling you to find a way to change that.

Fair point, but "Stepford mode" can be a coping mechanism, and it's sometimes hard to tell it from simple introversion, again especially at a passing glance, it only becomes apparent once you see such behavior is consistent.

Yeah, I'm referring to constant behavior. Usually, the "friendzoning" that "Nice Guys" complain about happens after an extended period, so you have time to figure out if he's faking it or not.

...or, as OP mentions, some people might take things like fedoras as an early warning sign.

 

[Sansha]

As a former nice guy:

It's an appalling title. Guys declare them to be 'nice guys', because it's their only quality. They have no other interests, or qualities about themselves other than being standard people. You don't get points for acting like a normal human being.
Saying you're a nice guy is like your theme park's only quality is that the rides won't kill you.

So a girl knows you're nice. What else? Are you smart? Funny? Interesting? Talented? Ambitious? Creative? Because there's another guy out there who's perfectly 'nice', and he's halfway through med-school, plays lacrosse and writes songs in his spare time.

She's probably working at that coffee shop to pay her college tuition, and she at least looks out for her health since she's so cute. She at least moisturizes her fucking face you greasy shit.

I despise the title 'nice guy'. It's an insult. I realized I was one a while ago, abandoned relationships altogether and unfucked my life. Spent two years single. Got healthy, got into a sport, made friends and, by luck for being in the right place, got an awesome job. Now I'm dating an amazing woman.

I'm 26 and my life is perfect. Nice guys do finish last.