Is this negative "nice guy" stereotype actually a thing?

[Charli]

If you've never been on the receiving end of 'nice guy syndrome' it's likely you'll not believe it exists...



It does. By the way, just for the record.

Though some people have elaborated on it. It's not a stereotype. It's assholes trying to get wise. They're already assholes they're just using a tactic.

 

[LetalisK]

As a former nice guy:

It's an appalling title. Guys declare them to be 'nice guys', because it's their only quality. They have no other interests, or qualities about themselves other than being standard people. You don't get points for acting like a normal human being.
Saying you're a nice guy is like your theme park's only quality is that the rides won't kill you.

So a girl knows you're nice. What else? Are you smart? Funny? Interesting? Talented? Ambitious? Creative? Because there's another guy out there who's perfectly 'nice', and he's halfway through med-school, plays lacrosse and writes songs in his spare time.

She's probably working at that coffee shop to pay her college tuition, and she at least looks out for her health since she's so cute. She at least moisturizes her fucking face you greasy shit.

I despise the title 'nice guy'. It's an insult. I realized I was one a while ago, abandoned relationships altogether and unfucked my life. Spent two years single. Got healthy, got into a sport, made friends and, by luck for being in the right place, got an awesome job. Now I'm dating an amazing woman.

I'm 26 and my life is perfect. Nice guys do finish last.

Yep, being nice should be considered the standard, not a quality. Oh, you're nice? Congratulations, you done worked your way up to a zero.

Of course, it's even worse for the Nice Guy since they're rarely actually nice, but rather confuse wishy-washy for nice.

 

[Cloned31]

I know it's actually a thing but it's bullshit. Though I think in one instance its a worthy phrase to say. Particullary because it happened to me about a year ago. If you are dating the girl already for at least 5 months,she cheats on you then breaks up with you, then decides to try and call you to talk about her problems because you are such a nice guy. In that case I would consider it to be appropriate to use "friendzoned", but let's be honest here, if this happens to you the phrase "friendzone" probably doesn't contextualize your feelings completely towards the situation so "Fuck that *****" is a much more appropriate phrase in this case.

Christ, this forum is like therapy for me.

Anywho, I think it exists and is annoying. It's being perpetuated by both the media and nerd culture in general. I mean every movie about a nerd who gets the girl has perpetuated this. Though I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to have movies where the good guy gets the girl, I just think it should be said that, it doesn't happen all the time.

Just another bullshit arbitrary standard we lay for women. Aren't we Nice Guys?

 

[DeimosMasque]

I'm a "nice guy" who has recovered. For years I did exactly what most of the stereotypical "nice guys" do. Off the top of my head I can think of four girls I did the "nice guy" routine to. I'd be so nice to them while they stuck with their "bad boyfriends" and hear about all the bullshit they went though and for some reason thought that would mean they would date me after it ended (and all those relationships did end)

Here was the the thing, I was very wrong. I thought back then only "assholes" got the girl. And the whole line of "Nice Guys Finish Last" was a real thing. The truth of the matter was I was actually ignoring girls who were interested in me because I was overly focused on girls who weren't interested. Those girls that I focused all my attention on as friends made it so I missed opportunities elsewhere.

Just because I thought those girls were "everything to me." I'd write poetry to them that I never read to them. I'd just be their friend and was -sure- that when they were single they would recognize how I was there for them and want to be with me. Yeah, it doesn't work that way.

When I did actually break out of my "nice guy" phase I was at a coffee shop with a few friends and too attractive girls in front of me... I was more interested in one of them, but they weren't interested in me the same way. So on a literal whim I decided to stop with the long play and asked out the other girl as they were leaving... I dated that girl for three years.

What it taught me was that the "long play" of being the "nice guy" was the wrong idea. Of course you should treat every girl as a friend if you like them, and you should always respect them. But if a girl is uninterested for whatever reason, she's -not- interested. After my relationship with the girl I mentioned previously ended, I eventually got another girl who I liked. That only lasted six months but it lead me to my lady (going on 10 years on April 14th)

That's the real problem with it all. You can be the "nice guy" all you want but all your doing is being an ass. You're basically giving your kindness to them because you think that's the way to their heart. It's not. Letting them know how you feel, treating them as people, that's the way to do it. Just being the "nice guy" only sets yourself for failure because you aren't doing certain things that need to be done:

Sharing your feelings about them, asking them out and being yourself.

And don't get me wrong, those things are scary as hell! The reason I was the "nice guy" for so long was because of self-esteem issues that I had to get over. And oddly enough, putting myself out there and opening myself up to rejection is the reason I got over those issues.

It's a weird case where the cure is painful, but not as painful as the loneliness and pain that comes from just trying to be the "nice guy."

 

[wulf3n]

If you've never been on the receiving end of 'nice guy syndrome' it's likely you'll not believe it exists...



It does. By the way, just for the record.

Though some people have elaborated on it. It's not a stereotype. It's assholes trying to get wise. They're already assholes they're just using a tactic.

I don't buy it. Maybe if being nice actually worked I could see it being a "tactic" but when has just being "nice" ever gotten anyone laid.

To me the much more likely situation is that this whole "nice guy" phenomena is nothing more than the socially inept doing the only thing they know how to show someone they care, and then overreact when the inevitably get rejected, lashing out because rejection hurts, doubly so when you've built the person up to be something more than they are.

 

[Charli]

If you've never been on the receiving end of 'nice guy syndrome' it's likely you'll not believe it exists...



It does. By the way, just for the record.

Though some people have elaborated on it. It's not a stereotype. It's assholes trying to get wise. They're already assholes they're just using a tactic.

I don't buy it. Maybe if being nice actually worked I could see it being a "tactic" but when has just being "nice" ever gotten anyone laid.

To me the much more likely situation is that this whole "nice guy" phenomena is nothing more than the socially inept doing the only thing they know how to show someone they care, and then overreact when the inevitably get rejected, lashing out because rejection hurts, doubly so when you've built the person up to be something more than they are.

That what it is. Nice guy syndrome is a jerk off who does so with the INTENT to get laid. And when does not, gets frustrated and calls women bitches and god knows what else. Or in the more milder cases, just get all frustrated and then break off the friendship the other person thought they had.

And yes assholes can play nice and get laid, again you need to on the receiving end, so...doubt all you like, I've had enough shoulder crying sessions laid on me by naive friends to know when it's been employed.

But Nice Guy syndrome is more commonly a person who is overly nice to the object of their affection with the intent of sexual favors as a reward. Asinine and selfish, and I've known at least 2 guys doing this in my life, introverted, nice as friends, but really did not get how to forge a more serious relationship, so wasted weeks and months of their lives doing 'favors' for their targets and then getting all huffy and enraged at the world when said favours did not result in ...well you get the idea.

They were both smacked on the head by yours truly.

 

[wulf3n]

That what it is. Nice guy syndrome is a jerk off who does so with the INTENT to get laid. And when does not, gets frustrated and calls women bitches and god knows what else. Or in the more milder cases, just get all frustrated and then break off the friendship the other person thought they had.

I'm not questioning the definition. I'm questioning it's existence in reality.

And yes assholes can play nice and get laid, again you need to on the receiving end, so...doubt all you like, I've had enough shoulder crying sessions laid on me by naive friends to know when it's been employed.

But it's not just being nice that gets them laid, if it were this wouldn't be a thing.

But Nice Guy syndrome is more commonly a person who is overly nice to the object of their affection with the intent of sexual favors as a reward. Asinine and selfish, and I've known at least 2 guys doing this in my life, introverted, nice as friends, but really did not get how to forge a more serious relationship, so wasted weeks and months of their lives doing 'favors' for their targets and then getting all huffy and enraged at the world when said favours did not result in ...well you get the idea.

They were both smacked on the head by yours truly.

Exactly my point, they didn't know how to forge a more serious relationship. The worst part is that you seemed to know they were socially inept, but rather than explain to them how their attitude was wrong you decided to assault them.

This whole topic wreaks of picking on the kid with learning difficulties.

 

[Vegosiux]

Or in the more milder cases, just get all frustrated and then break off the friendship the other person thought they had.

Not sure what's wrong with that, honestly. I mean, nobody should be forced to be in a relationship they don't want to be in, and if they don't want to be friends, well, they don't want to be friends. They don't owe their "friendship" to anyone any more than any woman owes them her private parts because they were nice to her. I just find it a bit of a double standard. Being "nice" to someone doesn't mean you can take them for granted when you make moves on them (which is 100% true, it doesn't), but someone being nice to you makes it okay to take them for granted? That's...not really good, is it?

And just because I'm feeling cheeky, you're better off without such a "friend" anyway, unless you're only in it for the pampering.

PS: I've actually "cut contact" with many women who were not romantically interested in me (and some that were!), not out of spite though, people just drift apart sometimes. And sometimes it's a real shame we do

 

[mindfaQ]

What? The nice guy stereotype has anything to do with women? It though it was just general being nice without specific reason.
Also I would note that being nice to women actually makes it harder to get her into their bed, just makes you more potential child raising material, after she's had enough adventures. I'm not saying this is true for all women, but most women like a strong leading male rather than someone on their level, when it's about sex.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

Hrm, I definitely understand where the hate comes from here. Seems like these "Nice Guys" are definitely doing something that's not good for them or anyone else.

Most of this topic makes me feel pretty bad, or at least self-conscious, since I've done some of this kinda crap at least in private. Mostly the part of wondering "why do people who seem to be terrible asshole people get girlfriends?" Thankfully I did that in private for the most part, although I can think of a few times where I've said it to others. I'm also happy to note that the last time I knew a woman who I was friends with and we went out and things basically misfired and she wasn't interested, we were and are still friends. She's not a ***** or only likes assholes or anything else. We just didn't click (and I kinda blew it, but that's another story) and that was okay. When my ex told me she's dating another guy (we're still friends, which is apparently weird to everyone I know), I figured he was probably a good person (which, after talking to him over several games of League, he is.)

But as much as I understand I violate certain conventions of this personality-type, I still feel bad since I recognize some parts of it in me. Thankfully I stopped wearing fedoras. Thinking I might hit a proper hat store sometime soon and see if they can tell me what will actually work for me.

I have to ask, though: Everyone here certainly has a right to decry how awful this is and everything, but what do you say to people like me who notice themselves in at least some of what you're saying? What do you tell someone who says "Wow! I never realized I was acting like such a douche! How do I become better and break this habit?"

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

Nice guys do finish last.

They say they're nice guys, but always reminding everyone that we jerks suffer from premature ejaculation ;_; (ha-HA! Good one, Marvelous)

OT again: This is kind of something I didn't notice until I considered my friend and her boyfriend, maybe some of the problem we have here is that it's kinda indiscriminate. I think some people have touched on this (I did briefly even) but the nice guys probably need some kind of guiding hand to know when a girl is actually interested. Or, in my philosophy, if they are close to the relationship-zone, which is a teeny tiny spot located inside the friendzone (because if you want them to be your girlfriend, you should probably work at least a little on the second part of that word)

 

[Dr. Crawver]

You know in endless movies where the hero is a total loser with no redeeming qualities, but because he's not actually a Nazi or whatever, we are supposed to think he's a great guy, and the scantily clad love interest character falls in love with him in the end? Some people have watched too many of those movies.

Is there really a movie were the guy starts out as a loser, stays a loser and then wins ze girl? In most stereotypical "from zero to hero"-movies, the loser actually does something and accompliches some grand labour, which even in real life would open many ladies eyes to someone who was invisible to them before.

Sounds to me like an anime movie, rather than a live action/western one. Seriously, some of the male characters in anime are so bland, boring, and have no redeemable factors that you can never understand why the female characters like them. This is especially worse in the "hareem" genre. I'm not a fan of anime in general for thing like this.

-OT-
Unfortunately, where I'm from, we're seeing kind of one of the worst cases of the "nice guy" thing. Guy I know was a virgin, spends his whole time trying the "nice guy" act on about 3 different women for the span of about 7 months. They are all genuinely too nice (or oblivious in one case) to tell him to fuck off, and stay friends with him. Whenever he's on a night out with them, he's also of course pouring alcohol down their throats. So, about 3 weeks ago on a night out, one of them actually heads home as she's not feeling too good. A friend takes her back. Then, at the end of the night, the guy in question goes back to "check up" on her. We don't know exactly what happened, but it's now the guy has a smug sense of self-satisfaction and does admit he had sex with her, and she refuses to be near the guy and has distanced herself from him, and a lot of his friends. I'm not saying it's rape, but it's got far too many of the warning signs to be comfortable. All in all it's definitely not what a "nice guy" would actually do.

 

[Vegosiux]

Unfortunately, where I'm from, we're seeing kind of one of the worst cases of the "nice guy" thing. Guy I know was a virgin, spends his whole time trying the "nice guy" act on about 3 different women for the span of about 7 months. They are all genuinely too nice (or oblivious in one case) to tell him to fuck off, and stay friends with him. Whenever he's on a night out with them, he's also of course pouring alcohol down their throats. So, about 3 weeks ago on a night out, one of them actually heads home as she's not feeling too good. A friend takes her back. Then, at the end of the night, the guy in question goes back to "check up" on her. We don't know exactly what happened, but it's now the guy has a smug sense of self-satisfaction and does admit he had sex with her, and she refuses to be near the guy and has distanced herself from him, and a lot of his friends. I'm not saying it's rape, but it's got far too many of the warning signs to be comfortable. All in all it's definitely not what a "nice guy" would actually do.

Nnope, it's not what a nice guy would do, but I'm not entirely sure how a guy getting a woman drunk to have sex with her could be considered either kind of "nice guy" at all.

I mean, isn't the point even of a "nice guy?" that he actually does genuinely nice things, like spending time with, letting her confide in him, buy her some things now and then, etc; but with an ulterior motive? And fails to come out with his feelings, and/or once he does and is rejected, gets all pissy about it?

Or the definitions have shifted yet again while I wasn't looking...but "getting women drunk in hopes of getting sex" definitely isn't something I'd ascribe to any sort of "nice guys", not even the least savory ones.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

Unfortunately, where I'm from, we're seeing kind of one of the worst cases of the "nice guy" thing. Guy I know was a virgin, spends his whole time trying the "nice guy" act on about 3 different women for the span of about 7 months. They are all genuinely too nice (or oblivious in one case) to tell him to fuck off, and stay friends with him. Whenever he's on a night out with them, he's also of course pouring alcohol down their throats. So, about 3 weeks ago on a night out, one of them actually heads home as she's not feeling too good. A friend takes her back. Then, at the end of the night, the guy in question goes back to "check up" on her. We don't know exactly what happened, but it's now the guy has a smug sense of self-satisfaction and does admit he had sex with her, and she refuses to be near the guy and has distanced herself from him, and a lot of his friends. I'm not saying it's rape, but it's got far too many of the warning signs to be comfortable. All in all it's definitely not what a "nice guy" would actually do.

Nnope, it's not what a nice guy would do, but I'm not entirely sure how a guy getting a woman drunk to have sex with her could be considered either kind of "nice guy" at all.

I mean, isn't the point even of a "nice guy?" that he actually does genuinely nice things, like spending time with, letting her confide in him, buy her some things now and then, etc; but with an ulterior motive? And fails to come out with his feelings, and/or once he does and is rejected, gets all pissy about it?

Or the definitions have shifted yet again while I wasn't looking...but "getting women drunk in hopes of getting sex" definitely isn't something I'd ascribe to any sort of "nice guys", not even the least savory ones.

It's more the way he'd aways fain it. "Oh I'm just getting everyone drinks" while getting them more than anyone else. As for reactions when getting rejected, we also found out that once he learned one of the girls had a boyfriend, he actually went home and punched a tree, fracturing one of his fingers. Didn't stop him trying the act afterwards. Another case was the year before, there was a girl he was trying so hard with, and became "best friends" with her. Once she dated someone else, he then hated her and refuses to talk to her. Still is friends with her boyfriend though, interestingly enough.

I may be wrong, but I class him as a nice guy as everything he did, by itself done by an earnest person are genuinely nice acts. But from him, with his so thinly veneered intentions. It was all so clearly done to be nice so that he could get with them, and jumped at the first opportunity he could to actually reach his goal.

 

[Ikasury]

Any guy who describes himself as `a nice guy` will usually send up warning signs to me.

Truly nice people don't need to go around telling people they're nice, and can usually find better positive attributes about themselves than the `nice` label. Nice is pretty basic.

I've had encounters with `nice guys` and you get to see how `nice` they are the second you say no to them.
So you're pretty close with number two, I guess.
But it's not `men in general` and `women in general`. It's just people in general. People who need to describe themselves as nice and fall over themselves trying to do the blandest `nice things` for you for brownie points are just fucking creepy in general.

And of course women like good looking men - are they supposed to chase guys they aren't attracted to?

this... SO TRUE!! :3

as (i'm assuming) another woman, yea, 'nice guys' are really jerks-in-sheep's clothing... they act all 'nice' and sweet to try and get close to you... its freakin' creepy... i have a natural aversion to sterotypical 'cute' and 'nice' things because in my experience people that act like that only want something from you... so i either punch them in the face if they get too close or walk the other way, mix my route up, and don't go anywhere near home till i'm sure they aren't following... yes, i'm being serious, this happens more often then i like -.-

so the assumption of 'nice' equating to 'creepy' is valid, at least in my book, though again not just for men, but women too, if someone is 'being nice' to you and its rather obvious they are BEEEEEEEEEIIIIIING 'nice' they're doing it for some reason that likely i don't like -.-

as phasmal said, truly 'nice' people don't go around telling you how 'nice' they are or try overly showing it .-.

though as a point of debate, while yes women like good looking guys, a woman will choose someone 'funny' over 'hot' for a long term partner, they're just more interesting... also beautiful people have such bland/flat personalities because they never had to develop further social skills, so honestly i find sterotypical 'hawt' people boring... give me funny and will cook and i'm good~ :3

 

[Colour Scientist]

though as a point of debate, while yes women like good looking guys, a woman will choose someone 'funny' over 'hot' for a long term partner, they're just more interesting... also beautiful people have such bland/flat personalities because they never had to develop further social skills, so honestly i find sterotypical 'hawt' people boring... give me funny and will cook and i'm good~ :3

It's so stupid to assume someone will have a bland/flat personality just because they're attractive.
It's an assumption people who aren't particularly attractive seem to console themselves with.

 

[Ikasury]

though as a point of debate, while yes women like good looking guys, a woman will choose someone 'funny' over 'hot' for a long term partner, they're just more interesting... also beautiful people have such bland/flat personalities because they never had to develop further social skills, so honestly i find sterotypical 'hawt' people boring... give me funny and will cook and i'm good~ :3

It's so stupid to assume someone will have a bland/flat personality just because they're attractive.
It's an assumption people who aren't particularly attractive seem to console themselves with.

considering i deal with more then 3 of these 'attractive' people on a daily basis, and that's just counting the new ones that pop up and try to 'hook up' with me, and all of them have the same inane type personalities of 'i'm hot therefore you should hang with me' and their mental capacities consist of 'oh this is so hard, its stupid' and they have no concept of empathy because they're 'hawt' and therefore people just 'pay attention to them' so they don't HAVE to develop social skills... no, no... i'm just going to leave it there...

there has been a scientific study on people that fall under the terms of 'attractive' and those that don't, there was a distinct pattern that people that were naturally 'more attractive' had less verbose personalities, which would crash for them as they hit around 30~40 range when beauty fades, while people that were considered 'less attractive' from the out set had shown more developed personalities with social skills better geared for essentially dealing with other people and the world around them, so even when they hit the point of 'looks fade' they were still interesting enough to maintain and keep ties with others... scientific fact~ people who are 'hot' and 'popular' have all the personality of a cardboard box :3

... and say what you will about my supposed 'attractiveness', i care little for personal appearance, but as stated previously, when people constantly come up to you with expectations/desires/wants of furthering 'relations' i have to assume i'm somewhat more then cursorily attractive...

 

[Daystar Clarion]

though as a point of debate, while yes women like good looking guys, a woman will choose someone 'funny' over 'hot' for a long term partner, they're just more interesting... also beautiful people have such bland/flat personalities because they never had to develop further social skills, so honestly i find sterotypical 'hawt' people boring... give me funny and will cook and i'm good~ :3

It's so stupid to assume someone will have a bland/flat personality just because they're attractive.
It's an assumption people who aren't particularly attractive seem to console themselves with.

considering i deal with more then 3 of these 'attractive' people on a daily basis, and that's just counting the new ones that pop up and try to 'hook up' with me, and all of them have the same inane type personalities of 'i'm hot therefore you should hang with me' and their mental capacities consist of 'oh this is so hard, its stupid' and they have no concept of empathy because they're 'hawt' and therefore people just 'pay attention to them' so they don't HAVE to develop social skills... no, no... i'm just going to leave it there...

there has been a scientific study on people that fall under the terms of 'attractive' and those that don't, there was a distinct pattern that people that were naturally 'more attractive' had less verbose personalities, which would crash for them as they hit around 30~40 range when beauty fades, while people that were considered 'less attractive' from the out set had shown more developed personalities with social skills better geared for essentially dealing with other people and the world around them, so even when they hit the point of 'looks fade' they were still interesting enough to maintain and keep ties with others... scientific fact~ people who are 'hot' and 'popular' have all the personality of a cardboard box :3

... and say what you will about my supposed 'attractiveness', i care little for personal appearance, but as stated previously, when people constantly come up to you with expectations/desires/wants of furthering 'relations' i have to assume i'm somewhat more then cursorily attractive...

I would very much like to see this scientific study, because so far you've only provided anecdotes and personal bias.

Of course, knowing three 'attractive' people who happen to be vapid = all attractive people are vapid.

There's a certain level of irony at play here.

 

[Verlander]

If you need to confirm up front that you're "nice", then you're doing it wrong.

I don't think it's as sinister as that though, I do think that there are a lot of unaware guys who are frustrated that they are decent people and aren't getting much attention.

Moral of the story is "Nice should be standard. Master that and then focus on the next thing to be: Interesting."

 

[TheEvilGenius]

You want to get girls? Its really not that difficult. Be nice, treat them like people, and don't wait until they are dating someone to ask them out.

Wait, I thought that approach was the very reason we were having this discussion to begin with.


OT:

I may be repeating someone else here, but has anyone ever considered the possibility that people in general have no fucking clue what they want? It's like that one Jimquisition episode with the coffee analogy. Women say they want a "nice guy" who "takes care of them" and "treats them right" only because that's what they think they want. Then a guy comes along who takes them at their word and does all of those things in the hopes of getting with them only to be called a creep, asshole, fake, liberal, communist, neo-nazi, fascist, chauvinist, etc. etc. How about we just chalk this up to miscommunication.

Anyone? Anyone?!