-ism's on tumblr

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

I'm saying they're not even equally valid choices. The one has clear and objective disadvantages over the other.

It's only "privilege" in the Tumblr sense if the two are actually equal and the favoring of the one over the other is society being dumb. This is the case with men/women and the various shades of sexuality. This is not the case with fat.

Er...while there are disadvantages, yes, does that justify society treating them as less?

Disadvantages = The opposite of advantages = less.

A person with worse health has worse health. Treating them as though they have equal health is damaging.

And again as I said, there is a difference between working toward a healthier population by acknowledging the shortcomings of a group of people and being a dick to them. The dickishness should stop. The healthiness should not.

 

[deathjavu]

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Dont you want to have a real discussion? Stop referecing people who ARNT the person youre talking to. No one gives a single fuck what these other people have to say, unless the person youre talking to specifically tells you otherwise and NAMES a person they agree with. Try talking about what THEY think.

Ugh, I have a friend who always tries to argue against the "opinions perpetuated by my side", as though there's monolithic sides in the vast majority of rational discussions (I agree that insane discussions will try to turn everything into black/white, and if it really is black/white it's kind of insane to bring the discussion up). This childish "with me or against me" mentality poisons any chance of rational discussion, and, well...http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2373#comic . It's the kind of shit that ruins political discussions, actual political discourse, any discussion of really important issues...pretty much everything.

When people are talking to me, they're talking to ME. If you want to bring up someone else's arguments, bring them up with someone else. They're not mine. If you're trying to pin them to me, get bent. If they're using a label I've also been using, then ignore the label and read the content underneath. Lots of nasty things get hidden under the cover of convenient labels. They're just words. Symbols for communication. If a word is not doing the job because you're confused, try to figure out what someone means. If a word is not doing the job because you're deliberately confusing the usage, get bent.

Also, a lot of well-meaning feminists seem to think the term "feminazi" is directed at them, now now, that term is directed at the people who claimed a newborn baby boy was an enemy of feminism simply because it was a boy.

Unfortunately, no two English speakers seem to speak the same language anymore. Check the comments section of any youtube video where feminism is mentioned and you'll find plenty of examples of people who throw around "Feminazi" like it'll win them a prize.

Give this person a fucking medal.

And this is exactly why, when someone says something that bothers me, I ask them what they mean by it. I'd say 65%+ of the time it's just a misunderstanding.

Think of all the headaches you could save yourself.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I might be over-reacting but I was wondering if you the most intelligent of communities had any insight to whether my moral compass is off a little.

Considering what these type of arguments would look like in real life....


.....I don't think that your wrong to be put off by such hostility. Its best just to avoid such scenarios and focus on something else.

 

[ThreeName]

I always keep hearing from people how places like Tumblr and Reddit are hives of scum and villainy, but if so, why do you go there? Just ignore them. I manage to use Tumblr for finding fandom-related things or cute stuff and never run into this.

Yeah, I follow like 5 blogs (tumbls? Iunno) which are mostly just amusing pictures. Apparently people "browse" tumblr but I don't even know how to do that. Reddit too is just one massive circlejerk, and it seems like certain sections of tumblr are too.

I miss the days when the only outlet angsty teens had was MSN; at least they could only network relatively privately then.

Also fuck I'm sick of hearing about privilege. Yeah I have privilege, what the fuck are you gonna do about it? Change my skin colour/gender/race/orientation/weight/eye colour/whatever else people bang on about these days?

 

[mecegirl]

I think that some of you people just suck at Tumblr or go looking for trouble on Tumblr. I'm leaning towards the latter actually. You're not going to run into a mass of "social justice" bloggers just looking for pictures related to your favorite fandom. And if you find a blog that posts things that you object to all you have to do is press the ignore button. If (big if because unless you are super tumblr famous that's not gonna happen) someone sends you a shitty ask then hit the ignore button. It works better than the ignore button on forums. It completely erases that blogs existence from your dashboard and search results, you won't even see an icon with that blogs name on it anymore.

 

[SirPigglesworth]

Protesting against mens-support services for men who have suffered relationship abuse.
distorting and subverting the fact that most of non-mutual relationship abuse is perpetrated by the woman against her male partner, most abusive relationships are mutually abusive, and women are statistically more likely to continue being abusive in their future relationships. (That's the findings when you ask both genders the same question instead of the feminist-funded ones that ask women if they have been abused, and men if they have abused.)

This reminds me of when we had a family violence talk at my school, this lady came on and all of the family violence was a man abusing a woman and all they ways men can abuse women, when asked about women abusing men her response was "It barely happens" and when asked about statistics she said about 50% of men will abuse their partners at some stage of their lives. She also said women are never physically strong enough to abuse men (ignoring the emotional abuse she blamed on men.) I think the local men's refuge has closed down since then.

 

[Psychobabble]

I've been on tumblr for a few months now, and I've been seeing a lot of stuff that's been putting me on edge mostly to do with sexism. It puts me on edge mostly because I am not sure whether I'm wrong in thinking what I am. The people on there seem to be treating feminism like a war on men, as if it's them or us, not actually preaching equality, I saw a post that said "Patriarchy backfiring on men is not sexism against men" with thousands of notes and it bothered me that people could be so sexist when fighting for feminism. A small other thing that bothered me is that people are treating fat-shaming as a deadly sin, I might be wrong, but I see fat-shaming on the same level as calling someone ugly, it shouldn't be done because it's mean to hate on someone for any reason.

I might be over-reacting but I was wondering if you the most intelligent of communities had any insight to whether my moral compass is off a little.

A friend of mine once described Tumblr to me as the place the internet flushes it's sewage. I personally can't find fault with that description.

I'd advise you take a step back and realize what you are seeing is a pretty much unmodded ranting stream of collective unconsciousness. It's nothing but the internet version of spray painting on walls, or pissing in the halls, or running naked in the rain. Don't make the mistake of thinking it is in anyway rational or mature discourse.

 

[Single Shot]

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Dont you want to have a real discussion? Stop referecing people who ARNT the person youre talking to. No one gives a single fuck what these other people have to say, unless the person youre talking to specifically tells you otherwise and NAMES a person they agree with. Try talking about what THEY think.

Ugh, I have a friend who always tries to argue against the "opinions perpetuated by my side", as though there's monolithic sides in the vast majority of rational discussions (I agree that insane discussions will try to turn everything into black/white, and if it really is black/white it's kind of insane to bring the discussion up). This childish "with me or against me" mentality poisons any chance of rational discussion, and, well...http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2373#comic . It's the kind of shit that ruins political discussions, actual political discourse, any discussion of really important issues...pretty much everything.

When people are talking to me, they're talking to ME. If you want to bring up someone else's arguments, bring them up with someone else. They're not mine. If you're trying to pin them to me, get bent. If they're using a label I've also been using, then ignore the label and read the content underneath. Lots of nasty things get hidden under the cover of convenient labels. They're just words. Symbols for communication. If a word is not doing the job because you're confused, try to figure out what someone means. If a word is not doing the job because you're deliberately confusing the usage, get bent.

Also, a lot of well-meaning feminists seem to think the term "feminazi" is directed at them, now now, that term is directed at the people who claimed a newborn baby boy was an enemy of feminism simply because it was a boy.

Unfortunately, no two English speakers seem to speak the same language anymore. Check the comments section of any youtube video where feminism is mentioned and you'll find plenty of examples of people who throw around "Feminazi" like it'll win them a prize.

Give this person a fucking medal.

And this is exactly why, when someone says something that bothers me, I ask them what they mean by it. I'd say 65%+ of the time it's just a misunderstanding.

Think of all the headaches you could save yourself.

Hi. I think you called me insane without having the spine to quote me directly.

No, I didn't narrow everything down to black or white logic. I stated that 'feminism' as a group has stated, repeatedly, through it's prominent members and organizations that it is SUPPORTIVE of the extermination of the male population through eugenics and genocide. No matter how you look at it that's wrong yet the majority (I hope) of self-proclaimed feminists are unwilling to shun such behaviour. NOW, the organisation that supported the genocide described in SCUM, now has 550,000 members. Do you think an organization that publically supported GENOCIDE should have half a million members? Do you even think an organization that advocated GENOCIDE should still be allowed to exist? So why do you think it's okay to name your beliefs in allegiance to that organization? It makes it seem like they have far more public support than they do/should have and thus makes them much more powerful. This is an organization with access to the president of America because of their perceived popularity that has historically advocated, and I think I have to say it again, MALE EXTERMINATION AND GENOCIDE.

I have explained calmly in previous posts that by associating with the movement you are seen as supporting those ideals even if you personally do not. I offered people an alternative to feminism in the form of 'equalism' or 'egalitarianism' as groups that ARE for equality.

I am not in any way suggesting that is a view common to all feminists, but I want them to know it IS the view repeated by their movement because I don't think anyone with morals should be able to keep defending that kind of organization.

And you say ignore the label. Well I would, but why should I have to when calling yourself an equalist would allow the same views to be taken much more seriously, weaken the extreme elements, and put an end to the 'gender wars'.

You saying I can't refer to the views offered to me by the most proponent parts of the feminist community through actions/speeches/blog posts/books is akin to saying I can't reference pope's/bishop's/the bible when speaking critically of religion.

You are right though. Words are just there for communicating. But

P.S. in the conversation you quoted I both stayed calm and communicated effectively. Both sides left (hopefully) understanding the other's position but still firm in their belief, but you snipped that part because seeing people have rational debates isn't what you wanted to complain about.

 

[Single Shot]

Protesting against mens-support services for men who have suffered relationship abuse.
distorting and subverting the fact that most of non-mutual relationship abuse is perpetrated by the woman against her male partner, most abusive relationships are mutually abusive, and women are statistically more likely to continue being abusive in their future relationships. (That's the findings when you ask both genders the same question instead of the feminist-funded ones that ask women if they have been abused, and men if they have abused.)

This reminds me of when we had a family violence talk at my school, this lady came on and all of the family violence was a man abusing a woman and all they ways men can abuse women, when asked about women abusing men her response was "It barely happens" and when asked about statistics she said about 50% of men will abuse their partners at some stage of their lives. She also said women are never physically strong enough to abuse men (ignoring the emotional abuse she blamed on men.) I think the local men's refuge has closed down since then.

Yeah, that's exactly why I despise feminism as a grouping. I suggest you look up the statistics since they're quite fascinating when you see them in relation to public opinion. Over half of relationship abuse is mutual. Over 70% non-mutual abuse is perpetrated by the female, and females are more likely to continue abuse into future relationships. Let me get a clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOu_BszChIE

^^^^ stats and such, reports and details in the video description.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks

^^^^ this is also a good video to show the public opinion on the matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdgt1ZHkvnM

^^^^ and because that shit gets depressing have some funny cats

 

[Malty Milk Whistle]

And here we are, again, arguing about feminism.

Indeed, it's like a wonderful wheel that will never stop

Somewhat more OT: Eh, like minded people tend to congregate. It's as much of an echo chamber as Reddit, 4chan, or here tbh. They all share a (loosely) related demographic and all have pros and cons.

 

[chadachada123]

Feminists get worked up about the word feminazi because mainstream radio and T.V. hosts have used the word to refer to entire organizations, not just individuals. According to Rush, Planned Parenthood is run by "feminazis", because he believes they try to lobby to keep abortions as high as they can.

Edit: I've tried toying around with the first sentence a bunch, but I don't think I can get it to work right. Obviously the majority of people that identify as feminists aren't batshit insane, so it doesn't rightly compare with the current Tea Party, which is mostly batshit insane. I just found the situations oddly similar.

--

Funnily enough, this seems slightly reminiscent of the term "Tea Partier," given that the actual Tea Party, founded by Libertarians and Ron Paul-Republicans, is nothing at all like the current Neo-conservative/Neo-Republican group full of hate and asshattery. It originally was about less government (spending, military, et al) and better representation, whereas now it is just a branch for the mainstream Republican party, particularly those who wish to actually increase government spending in private citizens' lives.

But instead of getting mad when someone uses some negative term to refer to the Tea Party, like 'tea-bagger,' I instead make sure to clarify whether they're referring to the current batshit-insane group, and not those like myself who identified as a Tea Party supporter long before it was highjacked. I, like many others, have had to distance myself from the name, simply because the general public has no idea a) what the Tea Party was MEANT to be, and b) that it is completely changed from that original goal.

While I don't think that feminists should abandon the name 'feminist,' I see no reason why there's a need to get angry towards Youtube comments or single sentences that mention feminazis which, by themselves, give *absolutely no indication* whether or not the commenter opposes feminism or simply opposes extreme feminism (which is obviously misandric).

I note that another poster has given an example of women that could rightfully be termed 'feminazis,' when they start to harass a newborn boy and his mother simply for being male.

I'll raise him one, though there is no small amount of this type of material that is clearly not feminism, but a fervent offshoot of it:

Edit: Whoa, that was larger than I thought. Spoiler'd.

Spoiler

In case the hyperlinking doesn't work:
http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/4560909/Does+this+sound+logical+to+you/

 

[Commissar Sae]

snip

While I agree with some of the things you are saying, the generalization you draw is flawed. Labels exist as a way of generalizing ideas or groups. The label of feminism should therefore be ascribed to the actions and beliefs of the majority of those who would call themselves feminist, and not the radical minority of crazy people. Feminism at its roots is about striving for gender equality and a stop to discrimination. Those who would pervert it to an ideology of Female supremacy as no more indicative of the broader movement than the KKK is of Christianity or Neo-Nazis of either right or left wing ideas. The Tea Party does not represent all Republicans, as much as they may claim otherwise and their opponents want to.

Hell, the idea of egalitarianism you are championing has roots in both the French Revolution and Marxism. Both of which have been responsible for death and suffering on a tremendous scale. The idea itself is not made worthless by the way some proponents of it behaved. The concept of equal rights for all is not cheapened by the fact that Stalin and Mao used it as the excuse for butchering thousands, neither is the idea of feminism cheapened by the ideals of a handful (and half a million is a tiny number in a world of over 7 billion) of fringe lunatics who claim to speak for the majority.

Feminism has a much longer history than the recent extremists would have you believe, and I for one am behind the ideals of the like of John Stuart Mill, every human being should have the right to equal treatment by the law and the state. That is all. That has always been the fundamental tenant of feminism. Modern iterations have started to change that message, and many more radical feminists are borderline lunatics, but the same can be said of anyone who holds to their ideology dogmatically without trying to understand the perspectives of others or ignores facts when it goes against their pre-conceived notions.

I have rambled a lot longer than I planned to. Anyway, all that to say that everyone, on all sides of this, should try to relax a little and look at things with a more open mind.

 

[Single Shot]

snip

While I agree with some of the things you are saying, the generalization you draw is flawed. Labels exist as a way of generalizing ideas or groups. The label of feminism should therefore be ascribed to the actions and beliefs of the majority of those who would call themselves feminist, and not the radical minority of crazy people. Feminism at its roots is about striving for gender equality and a stop to discrimination. Those who would pervert it to an ideology of Female supremacy as no more indicative of the broader movement than the KKK is of Christianity or Neo-Nazis of either right or left wing ideas. The Tea Party does not represent all Republicans, as much as they may claim otherwise and their opponents want to.

Hell, the idea of egalitarianism you are championing has roots in both the French Revolution and Marxism. Both of which have been responsible for death and suffering on a tremendous scale. The idea itself is not made worthless by the way some proponents of it behaved. The concept of equal rights for all is not cheapened by the fact that Stalin and Mao used it as the excuse for butchering thousands, neither is the idea of feminism cheapened by the ideals of a handful (and half a million is a tiny number in a world of over 7 billion) of fringe lunatics who claim to speak for the majority.

Feminism has a much longer history than the recent extremists would have you believe, and I for one am behind the ideals of the like of John Stuart Mill, every human being should have the right to equal treatment by the law and the state. That is all. That has always been the fundamental tenant of feminism. Modern iterations have started to change that message, and many more radical feminists are borderline lunatics, but the same can be said of anyone who holds to their ideology dogmatically without trying to understand the perspectives of others or ignores facts when it goes against their pre-conceived notions.

I have rambled a lot longer than I planned to. Anyway, all that to say that everyone, on all sides of this, should try to relax a little and look at things with a more open mind.

But you seem to think that in a representative democracy (effectively what feminism is because while it lacks elections it does have support indicators) the view of the majority, not those in power, is what the movement stands for. The examples you gave are all where the different factions have sub-divided in name as well as belief, a more related example would be to compare someone like Rommel and the non-believing germans to the rest of the Nazi party. They all fly under the same banner so to not oppose organizations that support GENOCIDE, and to then align yourself with their name is to support them by proxy.

Your idea that egalitarianism = Marxism/Mao levels of atrocity is a frankly stupid attack. It's like claiming Atheism was responsible for Stalin or Hitler.
and as a second point they differ because people did/have rose up to speak against those uses of the teaching.

When I talked about NOW I did so because they have almost frequent access to the president of America and are thus in a position to nudge laws in their favour. How does 310 million people in the western world sound as a number? They aren't a fringe group any more if they have access to world leaders.

Equal rights movements have indeed had a very long history. John Stuart Mill was a fairly early example (He often called himself a 'equalitarian' or '(human) rights campaigner' in much of his work according to 10mins on google. Not sure how accurate that is but it would seem to indicate he was a true equalist) but you can follow it all the way back to Rome with some effort. The genuinely oppressed have always argued for freedom.

Honestly, if you could show me evidence that I've somehow missed of influential and high ranking feminists calling out and attacking these extreme sections while fighting all discrimination (even when it's against men) and spreading true facts instead of threatening and blackmailing to keep perceived anti-feminist data unknown. Then, and only then, I would be only too happy to join them.

 

[GeneralBigG]

If a straight white male invokes the name tumblr three times in the dark, in front of a mirror, after midnight, on the thirteenth day, of the thirteenth month then an evil spirit will steal his testicles.

True story.

Thank you for that injection of humour into an otherwise typical "Internet is scum" / "Feminazis-RARAAGGHGRHGRGAHGRAGRH" thread.

Here, have an internet.

Wait, the internet is scum, have something else instead.


Howabouts.......
A cute picture of a kitten and a teddy bear.

Spoiler: spoilered for size

 

[SirPigglesworth]

Protesting against mens-support services for men who have suffered relationship abuse.
distorting and subverting the fact that most of non-mutual relationship abuse is perpetrated by the woman against her male partner, most abusive relationships are mutually abusive, and women are statistically more likely to continue being abusive in their future relationships. (That's the findings when you ask both genders the same question instead of the feminist-funded ones that ask women if they have been abused, and men if they have abused.)

This reminds me of when we had a family violence talk at my school, this lady came on and all of the family violence was a man abusing a woman and all they ways men can abuse women, when asked about women abusing men her response was "It barely happens" and when asked about statistics she said about 50% of men will abuse their partners at some stage of their lives. She also said women are never physically strong enough to abuse men (ignoring the emotional abuse she blamed on men.) I think the local men's refuge has closed down since then.

Yeah, that's exactly why I despise feminism as a grouping. I suggest you look up the statistics since they're quite fascinating when you see them in relation to public opinion. Over half of relationship abuse is mutual. Over 70% non-mutual abuse is perpetrated by the female, and females are more likely to continue abuse into future relationships.

I already knew the correct statistics at the time but I couldn't have interrupted and said "Bullshit" partly because it was a serious thing and partly because I had gotten seriously told off for using correct statistics a few years before I had to have a serious talk with my teacher about the ratio of newborn boys to girls after I said it was more realistically 51% boys to 49% girls so I wasn't going to go though that again with a much more serious topic.

 

[Commissar Sae]

snip

The problem is that you have placed Feminism as a unified movement. It isn't. There are no Feminist leaders as such, they don't have a party structure or a hierarchy. If you look up a list of current feminist leaders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_feminists#Mid_and_late_20th-century_and_all_21st-century_feminists) there are hundreds of different names from all over the world, and they cover the entire spectrum of views on the subject. The only thing they have in common is the belief that women should be equal to men. The very concept of a "High Ranking feminist" doesn't make sense because they have no ranks. Some will be well regarded for their ideas, other will be ridiculed. If you want a specific example Betty Friedan often opposed the radical fringe because it hurt the feminist movement.

To it it straight, there is no one feminist leader, any more than the Civil Rights movement had one leader (MLK is pretty close, but even then.) I used the example of Egalitarianism=Communism as a way to make you understand the problems with your rhetoric. The concept of feminism is no more dictated by the actions of a handful of people than Mao is representative of equal rights between classes.

 

[Robert Marrs]

Tumblr is where all the people who have nowhere else to go end up. It becomes the scapegoat for anyone who wants to discredit a group. It allows people to state absurd opinions with pretty much zero follow up discussion or recourse so of course the people that want to say things they cannot defend whether its due to lack of knowledge or the content being hateful that is where they go. Its a shame that the groups that are being discredited by these maniacs don't stand up and say something though. I can't remember the last time I saw a radical feminist get called out by normal feminists. Generally this is because (regardless of the ideology) at the end of the day they view expressed on tumblr are just extreme versions of what those groups support. They don't want to harm their own movements and causes by splintering things which in turn allows people to generalize everyone in that group based on the fringe members. Basically if you want that to stop happening speak up and say something. Don't apologize for the problem try and do something about it. Police your own ideology or others will do it for you.

 

[EMWISE94]

Honestly, from the sounds of it, its like most people here that describe Tumblr as the savage wilderness where all the internet's scum go to fling poo at each other... might be using Tumblr wrong, well not wrong but, all the negativity that can be found on Tumblr is EASILY avoidable.

Personally, I have a tumblr blog where I post my art and follow other artist blogs and honestly I never see any of the bile mentioned, with the exception of one artist who I follow who is also a feminist, she may be the aggressive feminist that goes looking for the misogynistic bile to shut it down, but she's also rational, willing to discuss things, and isn't out to kill every random skaglick with a Y chromosome. Even so the amount she reblogs isn't toxic and is more insightful stuff rather than hate filled remarks and stuff.

Here's my advice, if you're gonna go to Tumblr, filter out what you're gonna be searching for, like seriously Tumblr is like any other place on the internet, if you try taking it all in you're gonna end up with bile and negativity. find whatever you have an interest in whether it be cars, sports, anime, science etc. you can end up browsing several posts without ever coming across the extremist lunacy that apparently runs rampant there.

Side note: If you asked me to describe Tumblr, I'd say its like a madhouse where all the loons and batshit crazies hang about, they aren't crazy to the point of wanting to have them sectioned, but crazy enough that they do the most hilarious things and you just want to sick around to see what they'll do next.

 

[GryffinDarkBreed]

A small other thing that bothered me is that people are treating fat-shaming as a deadly sin, I might be wrong, but I see fat-shaming on the same level as calling someone ugly, it shouldn't be done because it's mean to hate on someone for any reason.

Well, it's more complicated than that. Fat people face discrimination in various forms. You get simple stuff like not being able to find clothes in your size, but then you get very sinister medical issues as well. If you look around, you'll see lots of stories about people who've gone to the doctor for one reason or another, and they automatically get a diagnosis of "you're too fat, lose weight". Which has predictable results when it turns out they had some serious, unrelated ailment the doctor didn't bother checking for.

You also get cries to end disability payments for fat people, on the basis that you can't be fat and disbled, or something.

More accurately, they want disability ended for obesity. If you're disabled because you overate your ass immobile. That's what they're on about.

 

[Thaluikhain]

More accurately, they want disability ended for obesity. If you're disabled because you overate your ass immobile. That's what they're on about.

Perhaps some of they are, but that's not the case for a great deal of people. A lot of them automatically assume that being fat is the disability, and not a symptom of something else, and that it is therefore the person's own fault.