It Never Ends

[veloper]

^ Did you just imply blockbusters are for straight white men? Maybe they are. But why? To my knowledge, most of humanity isn't a straight white man.

I missed that reply earlier, but I guess it still deserves an answer.

Consider this: most hollywood romcoms are arguably worse than the big actions movies, when it comes to insulting your intelligence and casting stereotypes and old rolemodels.
Atleast with dumb action, you can just watch for the fights and the big explosions, so there's a small excuse for the characterisation to be simple. Not so for romcoms.

The implication here is that most blockbusters cater to the dumb, or more precisely, the largest audience through lowest common denominator and that will not change.
Should triple-A game development ever see the rise of a romcom equivalent, I still won't expect such titles to be any more intelligent or socially progressive than the AAA titles marketed to boys.

 

[JimB]

Do you find offense with fashion magazines and the like, showing how women and young girls should dress to be "accepted by society?"

I'm not sure "offense" is the right word; I do find them troubling, and I do think they contribute to an untenable and insupportable culture of oppression, but I'm not outraged enough to call myself offended by them because I detect less malice in them than I do in other industries.

They have a market, sure fetishism might have little point (compared to game play), but it has demonstrated it too has a market.

So does child pornography. I'm not saying Dragon's Crown is as morally repugnant as pedophilia, but I am saying "People will buy it" cuts zero ice with me. People will buy a hollowed-out golf club designed to be peed in while on the golf course, for god's sake.

Your inexperience or lack of funds does not stop you from knowing what you'd think you'd like. You could talk with many like-minded individuals and try to come up with either a guideline or outline of what would sell you on a game.

I am not clear what your point here is. Are you saying I am only allowed to describe what I want to see, but not what I don't?

Fifty Shades of Grey targets women as it is written by a woman; I find that okay, since I can find other media.

Okay, two things, Jonathan Braun.

First, I find the implications of "a woman wrote it, so it targets women" to be extremely telling. Why should we expect or incentivize gender-segregated marketing; that is, men should buy stuff men make and women should buy stuff women make? Because if that's the case, women have just been barred from going to movies.

Second, your argument seems to be that a bad thing isn't bad as long as there's a better alternative out there. It reminds me of something Yahtzee said once. If you stick your dick in a pudding, there will be plenty of parts of the pudding that your dick has not touched, so I could eat those bits; but I would rather people stop putting their dicks in pudding.

 

[Nurb]

Why are people in the gaming media so quick to defend a minority of tumblr white girls pretending to be feminists that don't play video games and hate them personally. For all the accusations of gamers hating women, they aren't shy about hating you... yes you. (or transgendered) I'm not even joking...

Want an adventure? Search Misandry 4 Lyfe on tumblr
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/misandry+4+lyfe

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Though I wouldn't call myself a feminist, more like someone who wants true gender equality;

Um, what exactly do you think feminism is? Feminism is the radical notion that women are people. It, as a discipline, is not only concerned about the limiting roles our society places on women, but the limiting (though dominant) roles our patriarchal society places on men as well. That's why the 'men's rights' movement is largely bullshit; we already have a movement that is trying to free men along with women. It's called feminism.

 

[shifter85]

Why are people in the gaming media so quick to defend a minority of tumblr white girls pretending to be feminists that don't play video games and hate them personally. For all the accusations of gamers hating women, they aren't shy about hating you... yes you. (or transgendered) I'm not even joking...

Want an adventure? Search Misandry 4 Lyfe on tumblr
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/misandry+4+lyfe

Oh noes! The feminazis are taking our MANHOOD!

Lol. You and that site is certainly making a good CASE for women in general adopting M4L as their life motto

But in regards to the topic. Men tend to be "exaggerated" in ways that show power and toughness - in ways relevant to beating the game. Females tend to be exaggerated to make them "eye candy" (to SOMEONE, at least) - in ways that would not be relevant to beating the game.

There would be no issue if women had been made tough, rugged bad*sses, they could even still be portrayed as somewhat sexy (think of the orc warrior women from K.T. Anderson's Elfwood art) That would have been relevant for the game. But I guess showing women as TOO tough and capable would just be overly intimidating - much better to give them a look that clearly screams - "this is just make believe, women really can't do things like this, and look how HAWT she is!"

 

[TTYTYTTYYTTYTTTY]

Do you find offense with fashion magazines and the like, showing how women and young girls should dress to be "accepted by society?"

I'm not sure "offense" is the right word; I do find them troubling, and I do think they contribute to an untenable and insupportable culture of oppression, but I'm not outraged enough to call myself offended by them because I detect less malice in them than I do in other industries.

They have a market, sure fetishism might have little point (compared to game play), but it has demonstrated it too has a market.

So does child pornography. I'm not saying Dragon's Crown is as morally repugnant as pedophilia, but I am saying "People will buy it" cuts zero ice with me. People will buy a hollowed-out golf club designed to be peed in while on the golf course, for god's sake.

Your inexperience or lack of funds does not stop you from knowing what you'd think you'd like. You could talk with many like-minded individuals and try to come up with either a guideline or outline of what would sell you on a game.

I am not clear what your point here is. Are you saying I am only allowed to describe what I want to see, but not what I don't?

Fifty Shades of Grey targets women as it is written by a woman; I find that okay, since I can find other media.

Okay, two things, Jonathan Braun.

First, I find the implications of "a woman wrote it, so it targets women" to be extremely telling. Why should we expect or incentivize gender-segregated marketing; that is, men should buy stuff men make and women should buy stuff women make? Because if that's the case, women have just been barred from going to movies.

Second, your argument seems to be that a bad thing isn't bad as long as there's a better alternative out there. It reminds me of something Yahtzee said once. If you stick your dick in a pudding, there will be plenty of parts of the pudding that your dick has not touched, so I could eat those bits; but I would rather people stop putting their dicks in pudding.

Not that you can't complain, but I, personally see no benefit in doing so and that my suggestion is what I'd do. So you would prefer homogenization (how else would you get rid off all the "bad" things)? Everything is created for everyone, not a single demographic left except for "everyone". I don't see how that can possibly work, we, men and women differ on a biological basis. There is quite a bit of overlap though.

"a woman wrote it, so it targets women" Well 50 shades was her own fantasy that many women share. Women can and do write other things that appeal to other audiences, but women also write many things they themselves are fond of.

 

[TTYTYTTYYTTYTTTY]

Oh noes! The feminazis are taking our MANHOOD!

Lol. You and that site is certainly making a good CASE for women in general adopting M4L as their life motto

But in regards to the topic. Men tend to be "exaggerated" in ways that show power and toughness - in ways relevant to beating the game. Females tend to be exaggerated to make them "eye candy" (to SOMEONE, at least) - in ways that would not be relevant to beating the game.

There would be no issue if women had been made tough, rugged bad*sses, they could even still be portrayed as somewhat sexy (think of the orc warrior women from K.T. Anderson's Elfwood art) That would have been relevant for the game. But I guess showing women as TOO tough and capable would just be overly intimidating - much better to give them a look that clearly screams - "this is just make believe, women really can't do things like this, and look how HAWT she is!"

You mean that you'd like female bodybuilders? It's a videogame, where 5" nothing woman dressed in battle bikini can take all the damage plate does and kill anything that the muscular giant of a man can. Though this games a lil' better even if you seem to all dislike the art style, at least the female warrior has muscles.

 

[JimB]

Not that you can't complain, but I, personally see no benefit in doing so and that my suggestion is what I'd do.

Is this like that other guy I was arguing with a few pages ago and you think complaining about it on an internet forum is all I do, or do you think complaining in general never achieves anything? Because I only had to write one letter of complaint to the managers of the movie theaters in town to get them to stop playing advertisements after the movie's printed start time. Complaining works.

So you would prefer homogenization (how else would you get rid off all the "bad" things)?

This might be the result of sloppy language on my part. I do not consider the industry's stance toward its depiction of women as a bad thing because of how it affects a game's attractiveness to me; I consider it bad because I think it contributes to a harmful environment. So I want to get rid of the harmful things.

Fifty Shades of Grey was her own fantasy that many women share.

Yeah, I'm gonna need to see your source before I accept that "many" women share that fantasy.

Women can and do write other things that appeal to other audiences, but women also write many things they themselves are fond of.

Of course they do, but that isn't what you said earlier. Still, I'm willing to drop this line of discussion if you are, mostly because it's early in the morning for me and I'm afraid my morning grumpiness is coloring my interpretation of your argument right now.

 

[TTYTYTTYYTTYTTTY]

Not that you can't complain, but I, personally see no benefit in doing so and that my suggestion is what I'd do.

Is this like that other guy I was arguing with a few pages ago and you think complaining about it on an internet forum is all I do, or do you think complaining in general never achieves anything? Because I only had to write one letter of complaint to the managers of the movie theaters in town to get them to stop playing advertisements after the movie's printed start time. Complaining works.

So you would prefer homogenization (how else would you get rid off all the "bad" things)?

This might be the result of sloppy language on my part. I do not consider the industry's stance toward its depiction of women as a bad thing because of how it affects a game's attractiveness to me; I consider it bad because I think it contributes to a harmful environment. So I want to get rid of the harmful things.

Fifty Shades of Gray was her own fantasy that many women share.

Yeah, I'm gonna need to see your source before I accept that "many" women share that fantasy.

Women can and do write other things that appeal to other audiences, but women also write many things they themselves are fond of.

Of course they do, but that isn't what you said earlier. Still, I'm willing to drop this line of discussion if you are, mostly because it's early in the morning for me and I'm afraid my morning grumpiness is coloring my interpretation of your argument right now.

My only personal evidence for 50 shades of grey is some anecdotal and the fact that her twilight fanfic got 3 books and a movie deal, that means a large market of mostly girls had to be into it. Not that I'm saying every women shares her fantasy, but enough to justify publishing a fanfic into 3 books. Complaining can lead to many things, I was just offering up my ideal, rather than complain about a harmful environment drown that environment in what you'd like. You and some friends or like minded individuals do a little research and hash things out and figure out whats best. I only really brought this up, because I got the impression you felt there were no female friendly games.

I'm fine to end this conversation, I just don't understand what is so "harmful" about this industry. Especially when Fashion mags and celeb rags are far more likely to cause a young prepubescent girl into thinking she is just a sexualized object. Easier access (it's on TV) than M or T rated games, depending on the parents/friends.

 

[Nurb]

Why are people in the gaming media so quick to defend a minority of tumblr white girls pretending to be feminists that don't play video games and hate them personally. For all the accusations of gamers hating women, they aren't shy about hating you... yes you. (or transgendered) I'm not even joking...

Want an adventure? Search Misandry 4 Lyfe on tumblr
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/misandry+4+lyfe

Oh noes! The feminazis are taking our MANHOOD!

Lol. You and that site is certainly making a good CASE for women in general adopting M4L as their life motto

My point is Misandry 4 Lyfers aren't a threat, they're just annoying 13 to 20 middle/upper class white girls pretending to be feminists that "HATE ALL MEN, CEPT MY BOYFRIEND LOL, AND TRANNIES".

They're a very narrow spectrum of people that the gaming media should be smart enough to see it and ignore them. They're the Westboro Baptist Church of feminism; intentionally offensive, invasive, and inflamatory, but laughably harmless.

 

[JimB]

My only personal evidence for Fifty Shades of Grey is some anecdotal and the fact that her Twilight fanfic got 3 books and a movie deal, that means a large market of mostly girls had to be into it.

Uh...no. No, it doesn't. It means people are buying the books, nothing else. Pretty much every comedian I can think of has a copy of the book because they think it's funny and want to mine it for material. That's not even close to proving that anyone actually shares the fantasies.

I'm fine to end this conversation.

I meant the bit where I stopped a toe away from calling you a liar there toward the end of my last post.

I just don't understand what is so "harmful" about this industry.

It contributes to the deeply rooted belief that women should be treated as sex objects.

 

[TTYTYTTYYTTYTTTY]

My only personal evidence for Fifty Shades of Gray is some anecdotal and the fact that her Twilight fanfic got 3 books and a movie deal, that means a large market of mostly girls had to be into it.

Uh...no. No, it doesn't. It means people are buying the books, nothing else. Pretty much every comedian I can think of has a copy of the book because they think it's funny and want to mine it for material. That's not even close to proving that anyone actually shares the fantasies.

I'm fine to end this conversation.

I meant the bit where I stopped a toe away from calling you a liar there toward the end of my last post.

I just don't understand what is so "harmful" about this industry.

It contributes to the deeply rooted belief that women should be treated as sex objects.

Unless your going to turn humans into cybermen we will still think of sex, it is what makes as human and not robots. Also i'm sure some might "laugh", but would you really publish a book if comedians really was there target audience? Let alone offer her a movie deal? That is a lot of money spent on a lost cause, if as you believe barely anyone shares such fantasies. Look, I'm not saying your a sexual deviant who enjoys being a submissive in a BDSM fantasy, but they do exist.

"It means people are buying the books, nothing else" "I am saying "People will buy it" cuts zero ice with me."

So you deny that many women who like 50 shades do so since they share a fantasy with the author, yet you deny that people just like overly sexually attractive women in gaming, because it is "hurtful".

There is always a reason something sells, and why it is made.

 

[TTYTYTTYYTTYTTTY]

Why are people in the gaming media so quick to defend a minority of tumblr white girls pretending to be feminists that don't play video games and hate them personally. For all the accusations of gamers hating women, they aren't shy about hating you... yes you. (or transgendered) I'm not even joking...

Want an adventure? Search Misandry 4 Lyfe on tumblr
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/misandry+4+lyfe

Oh noes! The feminazis are taking our MANHOOD!

Lol. You and that site is certainly making a good CASE for women in general adopting M4L as their life motto

My point is Misandry 4 Lyfers aren't a threat, they're just annoying 13 to 20 middle/upper class white girls pretending to be feminists that "HATE ALL MEN, CEPT MY BOYFRIEND LOL, AND TRANNIES".

They're a very narrow spectrum of people that the gaming media should be smart enough to see it and ignore them. They're the Westboro Baptist Church of feminism; intentionally offensive, invasive, and inflamatory, but laughably harmless.

Unlike feminist lobby groups who actively deny legislation MHRA's try to pass to equal the playing field, now there harmful.

 

[JimB]

Unless you're going to turn humans into cybermen, we will still think of sex.

I don't know what this statement is in response to. Where did I say I want anyone to stop thinking of sex? Is this a reference to my line about sex objects? There's a difference between thinking about sex and seeing women as objects whose personalities are less important than their orifices.

Honestly, man, I don't like to rag on someone for his writing style, but it's getting really hard to keep reading your posts when you won't break up posts so I can know what you're responding to.

I'm sure some might "laugh,"[...]

It is demonstrably true that they do. Look up videos on Youtube.

[...]but would you really publish a book if comedians really were the target audience?

I'm very confused by this statement. Who said comedians are the target audience? Like, um, okay, take Disney movies as an example. They're targeted at kids, but they (for reasons I have forgotten but that I think have to do with people looking for subtext) attract a lot of gay viewers too.

Let alone offer her a movie deal?

Look, I think the hang-up here is that you think if the book is successful, then it must be successful for exactly the reasons its author intended it to be. I don't see how you can come to that conclusion.

I'm not saying you're a sexual deviant who enjoys being a submissive in a BDSM fantasy, but they do exist.

Yes, I know they exist, but when did my sexual tastes become part of this? What are we even talking about?

So you deny that many women who like Fifty Shades of Grey do so since they share a fantasy with the author, yet you deny that people just like overly sexually attractive women in gaming, because it is "hurtful."

No. I never said either of those things. I said you're going to have to prove to me that a lot of women share those fantasies, and I never even touched on the other topic, but if anything, I said the opposite of "people don't like overly sexual women."

There is always a reason something sells, and why it is made.

The reason something sells may not be the same as the reason it's made.

 

[TTYTYTTYYTTYTTTY]

Unless you're going to turn humans into cybermen, we will still think of sex.

I don't know what this statement is in response to. Where did I say I want anyone to stop thinking of sex? Is this a reference to my line about sex objects? There's a difference between thinking about sex and seeing women as objects whose personalities are less important than their orifices.

Honestly, man, I don't like to rag on someone for his writing style, but it's getting really hard to keep reading your posts when you won't break up posts so I can know what you're responding to.

I'm sure some might "laugh,"[...]

It is demonstrably true that they do. Look up videos on Youtube.

[...]but would you really publish a book if comedians really were the target audience?

I'm very confused by this statement. Who said comedians are the target audience? Like, um, okay, take Disney movies as an example. They're targeted at kids, but they (for reasons I have forgotten but that I think have to do with people looking for subtext) attract a lot of gay viewers too.

Let alone offer her a movie deal?

Look, I think the hang-up here is that you think if the book is successful, then it must be successful for exactly the reasons its author intended it to be. I don't see how you can come to that conclusion.

I'm not saying your a sexual deviant who enjoys being a submissive in a BDSM fantasy, but they do exist.

Yes, I know they exist, but when did my sexual tastes become part of this? What are we even talking about?

So you deny that many women who like Fifty Shades of Gray do so since they share a fantasy with the author, yet you deny that people just like overly sexually attractive women in gaming, because it is "hurtful."

No. I never said either of those things. I said you're going to have to prove to me that a lot of women share those fantasies, and I never even touched on the other topic, but if anything, I said the opposite of "people don't like overly sexual women."

There is always a reason something sells, and why it is made.

The reason something sells may not be the same as the reason it's made.

You did though, you feel that "people will buy it" is not a good enough reason when you believe it's just a "sex object" and thus harmful. When you call something harmful, generally you want to see it gone. Yet in 50 shades case you ignore any validity that many women share Erika's tastes, saying that it's popularity just means people bought it. What I mean is if you were the publisher backing her and only believed it's worth was to be mined for material, then you wouldn't publish her book. Yet she published 3 books and got a movie deal and it was not comedians who wanted the movie, but her fans who share her views and are women. You always bold 50 shades, as if saying it is taken as a personal offense to you, just wanted to clear my point up.

Mostly tongue in cheek, though cybermen have no gender there all just one, sounds like your problems would be fixed that way.

"The reason something sells may not be the same as the reason it's made."

Videogames and books boil down into base emotions that we want to feel, so we consume them. Books being simpler are easier to target to an audience, while games being complex as they are can get there wires crossed and a "horror" game can turn into an action game. A sexualized character generally invokes the same response (even if the game flops) it entices with sexual attraction, to both market and pander to both the artist and the end user. Yet you want this industry to cut back on such characters (not even that many) to pander to a smaller audience with some of its members not even interested in the base game.

Why not create women centric games and pander to them for balance? Currently I can only think of a few dating sims or barbie games that are actually made for girls in particular. Most games want as wide an audience they can, yet there main supporters are male gamers. What would such a game even look like to you? Or would it just be any other game with anything you disagree with cut out?


"Look, I think the hang-up here is that you think if the book is successful, then it must be successful for exactly the reasons its author intended it to be. I don't see how you can come to that conclusion."

So you believe that 20 million people, bought 50 shades to make fun of it? To be generous maybe a mill or 2, plus people easily goaded into buying "best sellers" say 7 mill that leaves 11 million people (rough estimate) who actually enjoy the subject matter to some extent. Twilight was able to make 4 films not because people laughed at it, but because it had a large fandom that connected with the book.

 

[Nurb]

Why are people in the gaming media so quick to defend a minority of tumblr white girls pretending to be feminists that don't play video games and hate them personally. For all the accusations of gamers hating women, they aren't shy about hating you... yes you. (or transgendered) I'm not even joking...

Want an adventure? Search Misandry 4 Lyfe on tumblr
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/misandry+4+lyfe

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8roc0kUpc1qbapmq.gif

Oh noes! The feminazis are taking our MANHOOD!

Lol. You and that site is certainly making a good CASE for women in general adopting M4L as their life motto

My point is Misandry 4 Lyfers aren't a threat, they're just annoying 13 to 20 middle/upper class white girls pretending to be feminists that "HATE ALL MEN, CEPT MY BOYFRIEND LOL, AND TRANNIES".

They're a very narrow spectrum of people that the gaming media should be smart enough to see it and ignore them. They're the Westboro Baptist Church of feminism; intentionally offensive, invasive, and inflamatory, but laughably harmless.

Unlike feminist lobby groups who actively deny legislation MHRA's try to pass to equal the playing field, now there harmful.

What is an MHRA?

 

[JimB]

I'll get to the rest of this later.

You always bold Fifty Shades of Grey, as if saying it is taken as a personal offense to you.

In American English, titles of books are supposed to be italicized. However, at some point when I wasn't looking, everyone started using italics for emphasis (I would guess it happened because of internet forums, where bold words would look aggressive but italicized ones just look assertive). I think italics are already overused, though, in terms of what all they're expected to do--indicate titles, name ships and military crafts, draw a distinction between English and foreign words, and it's becoming more common to indicate silent monologues in fiction--so with all that going on, I think it's unnecessarily confusing to use italics for titles as well. I've therefore decided that bold font will replace italics when it comes to indicating a title. I will make this be true by force of will, so everyone should start adopting this rule already.

 

[JimB]

You did though, you feel that "people will buy it" is not a good enough reason when you believe it's just a "sex object" and thus harmful.

I did what? If you won't break up quotes, then please at least use objects in your sentences so I can know what we're talking about.

When you call something harmful, generally you want to see it gone. Yet in Fifty Shades of Grey's case, you ignore any validity that many women share Erika's tastes, saying that its popularity just means people bought it.

How are these two sentences connected? I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

But as to the second sentence, I am not ignoring any validity because there is no validity to ignore. When you say women buy the book because they share the fantasy, all you are doing is offering a theory that fits the available facts. You are offering no evidence or proof; you're just treating your theory as proof of itself. It's like back in the forties when Frederick Wertham saw that kids who hurt themselves playing make-believe read comic books, so he theorized that comic books were the cause. He had no proof of his assertion either, just a theory that fit the available facts.

What I mean is if you were the publisher backing her and only believed its worth was to be mined for material, then you wouldn't publish her book.

Why on Earth wouldn't I publish a book that I thought would make money? Why would I care what reason it made money for?

Mostly tongue in cheek, though cybermen have no gender there all just one, sounds like your problems would be fixed that way.

Tongue in cheek or not, this argument is crap on a variety of levels. On the surface, it's defeatist crap suggesting that there's no point trying to fight against a wrong because it can never be one hundred percent eradicated. On a deeper level, it's disingenuous crap because of how selectively people apply the argument. You never hear anyone say, "There's no point trying to stop people from murdering because people will always murder;" you only hear them say "There's no point trying to stop [X]" when X is something that person personally likes or benefits from. What's the point trying to stop games developers from making sexualized women? People will just keep sexualizing women, plus it gives me a boner!

Yet you want this industry to cut back on such characters (not even that many) to pander to a smaller audience with some of its members not even interested in the base game.

If the industry can only thrive as long as there's an atmosphere of sexually objectifying women, then the video games industry is fucking toxic and needs to die out.

Why not create women centric games and pander to them for balance?

For the same reason you don't say you shouldn't cure gangrene in a person's right foot as long as his left foot is healthy because that will balance out the gangrene.

Most games want as wide an audience they can, yet their main supporters are male gamers. What would such a game even look like to you? Or would it just be any other game with anything you disagree with cut out?

I really don't know what you're asking me here, so I have no idea if this is an appropriate answer to your question, but: The games I would like to see are games where the female characters dress like human beings dress, basing their choices on what's appropriate to the situation rather than what shows off the largest percentage of titty. Female characters would do things because they have reasons to do them rather than have things happen to them as part of a male character's story arc. Female characters would not have their love or bodies offered to either male characters or to male gamers as rewards, as if a woman's a trophy to be handed out. There would not be an inherent assumption that a female character must be the love interest of a male character, because developers would realize women are perfectly capable of existing outside of a relationship to a man. Writers would not put women into situations they wouldn't put men into, or vice-versa.

So you believe that twenty million people bought Fifty Shades of Grey to make fun of it?

I have no idea how many people bought it or why. All I'm saying is, you have no proof to offer me.

The Twilight series was able to make not films not because people laughed at it, but because it had a large fandom that connected with the book.

Fifty Shades of Grey is not the Twilight series.

 

[TTYTYTTYYTTYTTTY]

Snip

First of all, twilight is tweenage twilight where as Fifty Shades of Grey is adult twilight, as 50 is merely a fan fic derived from twilight. Also thank you for clarifying about your use of bold.


"For the same reason you don't say you shouldn't cure gangrene in a person's right foot as long as his left foot is healthy because that will balance out the gangrene."

This comment strikes me as if you'd like it if every and all games passed a superior version of the Bechdal test. Not every film passes the Bechdal test, but it also has many female centric films, unlike gaming where there are few female centric content. Games like you described can happen, but other games will exist.

Lastly cybermen is the conclusion to feminism, not a defeatist statement. Feminist hate gender roles thus should eliminate gender.

 

[TTYTYTTYYTTYTTTY]

What is an MHRA?

The reason you know the word misandry.

Men Human rights activists, feminists have succeded in passing many gynocentric laws that negatively affect men that the MHRM wishes to deal with, but they don't have the money of feminist lobby groups and organizations.