Its hard being a DC fan. (Rant)

[Something Amyss]

Grant Morrison, but my friend did not know who was writing the book when he heard and accepted the story he did.

I just had to make the joke, because that sounds like Miller's version from All-Star Batman and Robin. Or, at least, how it sounds to me based on Linkara's reviews, because I simply won't pay money for anything even remotely recent from Miller.

Oh, I didn't say she's straight, because she's not. But I doubt she's a lesbian.

Hmmmm...I'll accept it. This time.

Throwing this in here even though it's from another post and to another person, but relevant to the last bit:

A woman can have a female lover without being a lesbian. Bisexuality, pansexuality, and probably a bunch of other sexualities I don't know the names of are things; and I really hope Grant Morrison is savvy enough not to have Wonder Woman be a lesbian, because I don't want to deal with people using her origin as living among a female society for hundreds of years as an excuse for her to be gay ("what do you expect, she's brainwashed").

Not to mention, an island of only women (disclaimer: I have not read Earth 1, I don't know if this is still the case) might see practice of women taking other women as lovers even if they're heterosexual. People...have needs.

Of course, we all know that people are going to assume she's a man-hating lesbian anyway. And I doubt her origin will stay out of it. After all, how else could a woman not know her place in man's world? >.>

Wouldn't we all? Shit, I know a lot of people who grew up on Mystery Science Theater 3000 who went out seeking bad movies for entertainment value.

My friends and I often get together and watch riskier movies. The logic is that if it turns out to be a good movie, the group will enhance it. And if it turns out to be bad, we'll snark through it. This may or may not be MST3K inspired. >.>

Some movies are just...dull. I think the last movie I absolutely couldn't enjoy was King Arthur from like 2004. There wasn't even any good material to work with through most of that. BVS is so joyless I can't imagine anything saving it. Not even the real MST3K (or subsequent shows).

But yeah, we probably would. I'm just trying to put the complaint that "there's no way this is worse than BAR" in perspective.

If one thinks of Batman and Robin as more Adam West/Silver Age Batman campy/corny/kooky, its a better movie all around. Except for Bat-nipples. That was just awful design choice.
And Arnold hamming it up with the puns was really not so terrible. I mean Freeze is a character that you either have to go super-serious with, or over-the-top ridiculous. Arnold could have done the other, more traditional Freeze, but he'd just be reprising the Terminator thing, and with the corny style of B&R it just would have been shit.
I've warmed up to Batman and Robin over the years, its not my favorite but its not as shit as I first thought either. Still, Bat-nipples... terrible terrible idea.

Honestly, the movie wasn't going to be quality either way, so they might as well have gone full camp. I definitely didn't hate it, and I occasionally have fun pulling it out and playing it.

 

[Kyrian007]

I agree with the post's title. Maybe not with Samtemdo8's rant in general, but the title yes. It is kind of hard to be a DC fan... considering that their version of the shared movie universe absolutely blows.

The nearly unwatchable shaky-cam mess that was Man of Steel, they did tone that stupid camera gimmick down for BvS. But they didn't eliminate the stupid shaky-cam, and they made enough other mistakes that BvS wound up even worse than MoS which again I found nearly unwatchable.

Oh and by the way. The overuse of shaky-cam is annoying me with the Russo brothers as well. Winter Soldier and Civil War both destroyed what should have been amazing action sequences with ham-handed shaky-cam. I'm already wishing they get the boot for Infinity Wars. Or at least let them be script supervisors, but keep their ham-fists off the Paul Greengrass button.

And even prior to the shared universe that they started with the awful MoS, DC has disappointed way more often than not. They did have 2 good Batman iterations, no question. And one good iteration of Superman, so long ago it really barely counts. But that's BATMAN and SUPERMAN. The two most iconic superheroes ever created. People are ALWAYS going to like stories about them, some people even defend MoS and BvS. But what Marvel has done, that it's a real shame that DC apparently CAN'T do, is make any other characters into worthwile movies.

Mostly, Green Lantern. The lesson WB learned from the Green Lantern movie seems to be "WOW, people hate this guy. Let's just leave him out of the new DC MoS verse entirely." And that was WRONG. Fans don't HATE the character Green Lantern (any iteration, except for the racists bashing John Stewart,) they HATE that WB made a really shitty movie out of what could and should have easily been a slam dunk of a great comic book movie.

But also, Jonah Hex. The one that hurts me the most, because It's my favorite comic. Success should have been easy. Joe R. Lansdale writes, Don Coscarelli directs... boom, success. Why, Coscarelli already directed a short story Lansdale wrote, Lansdale wrote issues of Jonah Hex (and also great episodes of the 90's Batman cartoons.) And with Lansdale writing and Jonah Hex being dark anyway, WB would have gotten the super grimdark movie that obviously appeals to them so freaking much.

 

[elvor0]

The man rotates the world to reverse time

I really don't understand how anyone believes this is what happened, but I've seen people claim it so many times. He traveled through time because of his super-speed, and while yes this is stupid in and of itself, it is DC canon that he and the Flash can both do this. Supes is not making the Earth rotate backwards, it simply looks that way because time is moving backwards.

Pretty much this. I mean it is enormously powerful, but he can no longer do this anyway. Afaik, Superman and non Speed Force powered beings almost exclusively cap out at just over speed of sound, and Supes can't even reliably use his super speed for more than flying to places over long distance, as while he can move at superspeed, its just as fast to him as an onlooker, making it dangerous for him to use because he moves faster than he can comprehend. Complaints leveled at the silver age are way unfair anyway, as they were just making up whacky shit to sell comics, things are a lot more solid these days.

Flash doesn't have this problem as the speed force alters his perception of time, allowing him to move quickly without just smashing into a wall. Flash is quite possibly one of the most powerful characters in the DC universe if he wanted to be, but noone gives him flak just because his power level isn't quite so blunt.

Fans don't HATE the character Green Lantern (any iteration, except for the racists bashing John Stewart,) .

Woah, there are John Stewart haters? I've yet to encounter that. John Stewart is the best Lantern!

 

[SweetShark]

DC Comics: We have no respect for our Heroes and our fans. Except for Batman.

Not true...
Yes, the Batman in BvS was one of the good things I really liked, but I hope to see in the future equal respect for the other Heroes as well.
Plus I want to see how good is Will Smith as Deadshot. He look so cool. There is still hope.

 

[mduncan50]

DC Comics: We have no respect for our Heroes and our fans. Except for Batman.

Not true...
Yes, the Batman in BvS was one of the good things I really liked, but I hope to see in the future equal respect for the other Heroes as well.
Plus I want to see how good is Will Smith as Deadshot. He look so cool. There is still hope.

Well, even Batman they turned into a stone cold murderer, so I don't see how he's getting respect.

 

[Kyrian007]

Fans don't HATE the character Green Lantern (any iteration, except for the racists bashing John Stewart,) .

Woah, there are John Stewart haters? I've yet to encounter that. John Stewart is the best Lantern!

Yup, it's sad. They're the ones that whine and cry about the John Stewart version being featured in the Justice League cartoon instead of any of the Caucasian lanterns. They try and say it isn't about race... and then they scream about it just being done to make sure that more than just whites are represented.

Or something, or other. They're racists, always going on about something stupid or another. And it was an oversimplification, there are plenty of Kyle Rainer haters out there, and a contingent of Guy Gardner haters as well. But was it for the most part, the movie the people hated. Not the character which is (regardless of iteration) one of the most iconic and loved characters in the DC stable.

 

[SweetShark]

DC Comics: We have no respect for our Heroes and our fans. Except for Batman.

Not true...
Yes, the Batman in BvS was one of the good things I really liked, but I hope to see in the future equal respect for the other Heroes as well.
Plus I want to see how good is Will Smith as Deadshot. He look so cool. There is still hope.

Well, even Batman they turned into a stone cold murderer, so I don't see how he's getting respect.

He get respect by me, cause the movie showed with a respecful way why Batman become like he is now. The reasons weren't all over your face, which it is refreshing.
-

 

[SweetShark]

Fans don't HATE the character Green Lantern (any iteration, except for the racists bashing John Stewart,) .

Woah, there are John Stewart haters? I've yet to encounter that. John Stewart is the best Lantern!

Yup, it's sad. They're the ones that whine and cry about the John Stewart version being featured in the Justice League cartoon instead of any of the Caucasian lanterns. They try and say it isn't about race... and then they scream about it just being done to make sure that more than just whites are represented.

Or something, or other. They're racists, always going on about something stupid or another. And it was an oversimplification, there are plenty of Kyle Rainer haters out there, and a contingent of Guy Gardner haters as well. But was it for the most part, the movie the people hated. Not the character which is (regardless of iteration) one of the most iconic and loved characters in the DC stable.

If this is the case, why I don't see haters for Will Smith as Deadshot as well? I am so blind I don't see this "hate" around?

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

The thing I hate about most regarding Batman v Superman is that how much of a self fufilling prophecy this ended up becoming.

What could have been simply a Man of Steel 2 became this. It started with just bringing in Batman for damage control after the "failure" of Man of Steel. Because sadly and no one wants to admit it, no one likes Superman. If you end up having Superman doing exactly what you expect Superman to do, everyone will complain that he is too OP and too one dimensional to be an interesting character.

Then they showed Wonder Woman and called the movie Dawn of Justice and that title got mocked aswell.

Then Jesse Eisenberg was casted as Lex Luthor and everyone wanted Bryan fuckin Cranston as Lex jsut because he's bald in Breaking Bad

Then one trailer revealed Doomsday which honestly his design does not look as terrible as the earlier concept designs they were going with:

https://40.media.tumblr.com/dea14715627a4c2afc37766c32996806/tumblr_o52bswMSj91rov369o6_1280.jpg

Then the movie comes out and people are treating it as a disaster of Mengele proportions. Even people on youtube who never reviews movies before suddenly reviews it. Appearently the prospect of a Batman and Superman movie was that big.

Honestly I feel none of this would have happened if no one said anything bad about Man of Steel. If no one criticized Man of Steel we would have had a Man of Steel 2 and a stand alone Batman movie.

And now Civil War came out and of course people are saying this is how BvS should have been.

And now I dread the possibility of DC changing the tone and direction of the movies because of that rumor of Snyder and WB having disputes and the directors for DC movies like Flash and Aquaman has left.

No just no keep the tone the way it is other wise if it ends up being exactly like the MCU it will be increadibly redundant I mean there is already a Superhero bubble so why should DC end up looking more like the MCU in the exact tone and look?

I just want my Zack Snyder DC movies because he has talent he knows how to make Comic Boook movies he proclaims he grew up reading comic books and I believe him and he makes action that is 10x better then any movie I have seen in theaters. And he is NOT MICHAEL BAY!!

Its so fuckin unfair that things I really want to see happen is being taken away from me. I want that Justice League movie with Zack Snyder's style and sadly the movie community is against it

its very simple they do great TV shows with good actors who fit the characters, and then don't use them for their movies......and they wonder why they keep getting bad reviews.

I hate the Supergirl TV show. I just find it corny and cliche.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Honestly I feel none of this would have happened if no one said anything bad about Man of Steel. If no one criticized Man of Steel we would have had a Man of Steel 2 and a stand alone Batman movie.

Not criticising Man of Steel is impossible. It's an awful movie, an awful Superman movie and an awful superhero movie. They made MoS the way they did because they wanted the grim and gritty look of Nolan's Batman, the *only* success they've enjoyed in recent years (not surprising since they're the only movies they even made, not including the Green Lantern which everyone will be best to forget ever happened). And it didn't work.

I just want my Zack Snyder DC movies because he has talent he knows how to make Comic Boook movies he proclaims he grew up reading comic books and I believe him and he makes action that is 10x better then any movie I have seen in theaters. And he is NOT MICHAEL BAY!!

You might, but almost everyone else with any taste whatsoever doesn't. Zack Snyder is a talentless filmmaker whose only great movie, Watchmen, was great because of the source material and cast. He makes shit films, Dawn of Justice was awful in every way...it looked awful, sounded awful, had awful pacing, awful storytelling, awful characters, no real plot and went on far too long. The best thing DC could do is get anyone else than Snyder to make an actual good film, and worry about Justice League later, years from now once they've established some characters and a larger, shared universe.

As if George Miller can make a better movie? The same guy that ruined Mad Max?

And you have not read enough comic books if you think MOS is the worst portrayal of Superman ever

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Also I like how you use that one image of New 52 superman to paint him as an angsty asshole. And not show images like this:

Christ that was one my least favourite directions in New52. He's still an angsty asshole who thanks to the greatest superpower of all (the writer's favour) has punched well above his fucking weight in terms of romantic partners. Mind I'm bias against Superman and Wonder Woman as a romantic couple so take that statement for what it is.

I'm the opposite. Its a Romance that was meant to be. More so then Batman x Wonder Woman.

Batman's one true pairing is Catwoman.

 

[Thaluikhain]

If this is the case, why I don't see haters for Will Smith as Deadshot as well? I am so blind I don't see this "hate" around?

Possibly because people keep forgetting he will be in this movie. It's all Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn in tight pants, and Jared Leto giving used condoms to people.

 

[elvor0]

Fans don't HATE the character Green Lantern (any iteration, except for the racists bashing John Stewart,) .

Woah, there are John Stewart haters? I've yet to encounter that. John Stewart is the best Lantern!

Yup, it's sad. They're the ones that whine and cry about the John Stewart version being featured in the Justice League cartoon instead of any of the Caucasian lanterns. They try and say it isn't about race... and then they scream about it just being done to make sure that more than just whites are represented.

Or something, or other. They're racists, always going on about something stupid or another. And it was an oversimplification, there are plenty of Kyle Rainer haters out there, and a contingent of Guy Gardner haters as well. But was it for the most part, the movie the people hated. Not the character which is (regardless of iteration) one of the most iconic and loved characters in the DC stable.

If this is the case, why I don't see haters for Will Smith as Deadshot as well? I am so blind I don't see this "hate" around?

Now that you mention it, there has been a lack of talk about Will Smith being Deadshot. I don't agree with the casting myself; I'm not exactly fond of Will Smith, I don't think he's bad, I think he just doesn't gel with me, I understand why people like him, he's just not for me and I don't like deviations from characters established race. It could just be that Harley Quinn and Pimp Joker are higher profile complaints and are drawing peoples focus.

Personally I've yet to ever see anyone hate on John Stewart, there are people who prefer Hal(the fools!), but I've never seen any hate for him, or his race.

 

[DefunctTheory]

If this is the case, why I don't see haters for Will Smith as Deadshot as well? I am so blind I don't see this "hate" around?

I don't know. It's out there.

I presume it's harder to see because the vocal minority that usually bitches about race switching/black people is being drowned out by the vocal majority screaming for bloody murder at WB over a variety of other issues.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

The man rotates the world to reverse time

I really don't understand how anyone believes this is what happened, but I've seen people claim it so many times. He traveled through time because of his super-speed, and while yes this is stupid in and of itself, it is DC canon that he and the Flash can both do this. Supes is not making the Earth rotate backwards, it simply looks that way because time is moving backwards.

On topic though, I agree that it's hard being a DC fan, because we deserve to have better movies than we are receiving right now, movies that show the same love and respect for the source material we do. You don't like Superman, then that's fine. But that doesn't mean that the Superman that so many of us do love should be bastardized in an attempt to be "dark and gritty" but just comes off as dull and constipated. There is no great conspiracy against DC, beyond the one being perpetrated at WB right now. I hear people complain that "everyone just wants them to be like Marvel". Fuck no! I want them to be like DC. And don't tell me that those characters don't work in the form that we love them, because the DCAU proves otherwise.

I love DC. I love Marvel. And I would love even more to have them both with strong and robust movie franchises because that would just push them each to greater heights. I haven't given up on DC yet, but they've got some convincing to do before I'm back on board either.

I love Superman. I am just sad he gets completely overshadowed by Batman which is just wrong because Supes is the face of DC.

Heck I bet Marvel fans hate it when Spiderman gets all the spotlight.

And like I said before I have seen worse portrayals of Superman then this. And no its not just At Earth's End. Look at this panal from Act of God and is also an example of a badly portrayed Wonder Woman:

https://youtu.be/lSrO1puobWQ?t=425

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Fans don't HATE the character Green Lantern (any iteration, except for the racists bashing John Stewart,) .

Woah, there are John Stewart haters? I've yet to encounter that. John Stewart is the best Lantern!

Yup, it's sad. They're the ones that whine and cry about the John Stewart version being featured in the Justice League cartoon instead of any of the Caucasian lanterns. They try and say it isn't about race... and then they scream about it just being done to make sure that more than just whites are represented.

Or something, or other. They're racists, always going on about something stupid or another. And it was an oversimplification, there are plenty of Kyle Rainer haters out there, and a contingent of Guy Gardner haters as well. But was it for the most part, the movie the people hated. Not the character which is (regardless of iteration) one of the most iconic and loved characters in the DC stable.

If this is the case, why I don't see haters for Will Smith as Deadshot as well? I am so blind I don't see this "hate" around?

Now that you mention it, there has been a lack of talk about Will Smith being Deadshot. I don't agree with the casting myself; I'm not exactly fond of Will Smith, I don't think he's bad, I think he just doesn't gel with me, I understand why people like him, he's just not for me and I don't like deviations from characters established race. It could just be that Harley Quinn and Pimp Joker are higher profile complaints and are drawing peoples focus.

Personally I've yet to ever see anyone hate on John Stewart, there are people who prefer Hal(the fools!), but I've never seen any hate for him, or his race.

I am hoping a Green Lantern in this movie is John Stewert because he is just more cooler than Hal Jordan.

I vote Denzel Washington cast as a John Stewert Green Lantern. But I pretty much think its gonna be Jaime Foxx just because he's been very popular recently with the success of Django Unchained.

 

[maninahat]

I think it's hard to be a fan because WB keep making bigger and bigger planes to crash into the mountain. To mix the metaphors, there is probably a nightmarish number of cooks in the kitchen too, all trying to fly the planes by committee.

No, I don't think Disney and Marvel are especially good movie makers, but they are fairly reliable at not completely fucking them up, and churn out enough movies to withstand the odd flop. It should be a good thing that WB are trying to differentiate themselves and not follow Marvel's mould. To start following Marvel's lead now would probably just result in a bunch of bland movies that will be met with indifference.

I suspect they might do better with Suicide Squad, and that they might realise it is time to step away from their iconic characters more often and try out the largely unknown guys. Maybe they should spend less time saying "we must make a Superman movie!" and start saying "oh, hey, this comic left under the sofa is kinda neat, maybe we should do a small project with this?"

 

[Kyrian007]

Fans don't HATE the character Green Lantern (any iteration, except for the racists bashing John Stewart,) .

Woah, there are John Stewart haters? I've yet to encounter that. John Stewart is the best Lantern!

Yup, it's sad. They're the ones that whine and cry about the John Stewart version being featured in the Justice League cartoon instead of any of the Caucasian lanterns. They try and say it isn't about race... and then they scream about it just being done to make sure that more than just whites are represented.

Or something, or other. They're racists, always going on about something stupid or another. And it was an oversimplification, there are plenty of Kyle Rainer haters out there, and a contingent of Guy Gardner haters as well. But was it for the most part, the movie the people hated. Not the character which is (regardless of iteration) one of the most iconic and loved characters in the DC stable.

If this is the case, why I don't see haters for Will Smith as Deadshot as well? I am so blind I don't see this "hate" around?

Now that you mention it, there has been a lack of talk about Will Smith being Deadshot. I don't agree with the casting myself; I'm not exactly fond of Will Smith, I don't think he's bad, I think he just doesn't gel with me, I understand why people like him, he's just not for me and I don't like deviations from characters established race. It could just be that Harley Quinn and Pimp Joker are higher profile complaints and are drawing peoples focus.

Personally I've yet to ever see anyone hate on John Stewart, there are people who prefer Hal(the fools!), but I've never seen any hate for him, or his race.

I am hoping a Green Lantern in this movie is John Stewert because he is just more cooler than Hal Jordan.

I vote Denzel Washington cast as a John Stewert Green Lantern. But I pretty much think its gonna be Jaime Foxx just because he's been very popular recently with the success of Django Unchained.

I like that choice, but I haven't heard that any Green Lanterns will ever be made a part of the DCU yet. Maybe I just haven't heard the announcement yet (I'm not a fan of the current DCU) And I kind of doubt they would go for Jamie Foxx, as he's Sony's Electro, and Sony's collaborating with Disney/Marvel now.

 

[mduncan50]

I love Superman. I am just sad he gets completely overshadowed by Batman which is just wrong because Supes is the face of DC.

Heck I bet Marvel fans hate it when Spiderman gets all the spotlight.

And like I said before I have seen worse portrayals of Superman then this. And no its not just At Earth's End. Look at this panal from Act of God and is also an example of a badly portrayed Wonder Woman:

https://youtu.be/lSrO1puobWQ?t=425

Just because there have been worse portrayals of Superman does not make this one any better, and I think a big part of why Batman overshadows Superman in the public consciousness right now is the fact that there have been five good or better movies that does the character justice since the last Superman movie to do the same.

He get respect by me, cause the movie showed with a respecful way why Batman become like he is now. The reasons weren't all over your face, which it is refreshing.
-

They gave reasons for why Batman is the way he is in the movie, however these are things that happened in the comics as well without causing him to throw away his ethics, so I'm not sure how far it really goes to justify his actions.