Its hard being a DC fan. (Rant)

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Spoiler

Also I like how you use that one image of New 52 superman to paint him as an angsty asshole. And not show images like this:

Christ that was one my least favourite directions in New52. He's still an angsty asshole who thanks to the greatest superpower of all (the writer's favour) has punched well above his fucking weight in terms of romantic partners. Mind I'm bias against Superman and Wonder Woman as a romantic couple so take that statement for what it is.

I'm the opposite. Its a Romance that was meant to be. More so then Batman x Wonder Woman.

Batman's one true pairing is Catwoman.

I'm a fan of juxtaposition (if that's the right word) but I was also brought into DC by Justice League and Paul Dini and Bruce Timm were banging that drum to a charming beat.

As far as I'm concerned, the only romantic pairings in the DC universe worth time paying attention to are Wonder Woman/Batman, Hawk Girl/John Stewart, and The Question/Huntress.

I'm fond of Clark and Lois (even if only due to grandfather clause), indeed one moment in BvS that comes across as real is the part where he jumps into the back with her. It's oddly sweet and totally human. Shame the rest of the movie was incapable of that

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Also I like how you use that one image of New 52 superman to paint him as an angsty asshole. And not show images like this:

Christ that was one my least favourite directions in New52. He's still an angsty asshole who thanks to the greatest superpower of all (the writer's favour) has punched well above his fucking weight in terms of romantic partners. Mind I'm bias against Superman and Wonder Woman as a romantic couple so take that statement for what it is.

I'm the opposite. Its a Romance that was meant to be. More so then Batman x Wonder Woman.

Batman's one true pairing is Catwoman.

I'm a fan of juxtaposition (if that's the right word) but I was also brought into DC by Justice League and Paul Dini and Bruce Timm were banging that drum to a charming beat.

As far as I'm concerned, the only romantic pairings in the DC universe worth time paying attention to are Wonder Woman/Batman, Hawk Girl/John Stewart, and The Question/Huntress.

I'm fond of Clark and Lois (even if only due to grandfather clause), indeed one moment in BvS that comes across as real is the part where he jumps into the back with her. It's oddly sweet and totally human. Shame the rest of the movie was incapable of that

I can't stand this Lois. I just hate her. She feels like she's shoe horned in (Because she is), she brings exactly zero things to the overall story/movie, their 'romance' feels awkward and forced, and she just can't keep her god damn hands off of Clark's face. That last one is probably purely a personal problem, but it just rubs me the wrong damn way. It's like she want's to merge onto it and become his beard, like some sort of bizarre angler fish.

 

[elvor0]

As far as I'm concerned, the only romantic pairings in the DC universe worth time paying attention to The Question/Huntress.

Orange Socks?

Actually on that note, I'm still raw that The Question doesn't even exist properly in N52.

I can't stand this Lois. I just hate her. She feels like she's shoe horned in (Because she is), she brings exactly zero things to the overall story/movie, their 'romance' feels awkward and forced, and she just can't keep her god damn hands off of Clark's face. That last one is probably purely a personal problem, but it just rubs me the wrong damn way. It's like she want's to merge onto it and become his beard, like some sort of bizarre angler fish.

The DCCU Lois is pants. She's just so bland, proper Lois has balls. Especially in MoS she just kind of wanders around into the plot.

A random question to all - How would people feel about a new female Green Lantern for the movies? You wouldn't have to gender bend or anything, just a brand new (Human) character with a ring (Or dig up one of the old, I believe defunct female ones from the comics).

For my own thoughts, if they were going to that, I'd prefer that they dig someone up rather than create a new character. For DC, it might not be worth the effort, new characters seldom last long in comics(Harley Quinn being the exception), even less so if they come from a movie which has the potential to bomb massively.

DC also created a new Green Lantern rather recently; Simon Baz, with the potential for Jessica Cruz to become a Lantern too, that's 6 Human Green Lanterns already. Simon Baz was not only killed off screen during Trinity War, but even other members of the JL just kind of go "meh" at his death. He gets better, but with Green Lantern you probs wanna stick with Hal or John.

But my dream line up would be the same as the DCAU for the Justice League, which would include Hawkgirl to "round" the ratio of genders. Of course it's unlikely I'm going to get that, or Hawkgirl given that awful...awful version they have on Legends of Tomorrow.

 

[Cicada 5]

I'd say DC has been more terrible with their comics with a lot of fan favorites getting killed off, poorly written, put inlimbo etc. There's also the shilling of Silver AGe relics like Hal Jordan and Barry Allen over others. They're movies and tv shows do rather well, however.

Can't say I blame anyone for having sour viewpoints on DC lately, though personally, I'm starting to consider myself quite a DC fan as of late.

Before you ask, I've been mostly steering clear of this DC Cinematic Universe because I've found it too grimdark for my tastes. Heck, the only films I've watched in the DC Cinematic Universe are Batman Begins and the Dark Knight, and the only upcoming movie to catch my interest is Suicide Squad, if only because that film clearly isn't taking itself too seriously.

Give me Christopher Reeve Superman over Man of Steel anyday.

A;so, when it comes to comics, I aim to avoid New 52 (though if Rebirth proves more upbeat and brings back what New 52 took away, I'll consider reading issues from that) and Look for good comics that are Post-Crisis and Pre-Flashpoint, which I hear was the time DC was hitting its stride.

Also, I found a new addiction in playing DC Universe Online, which I found alot of fun and I found it mostly avoids any of the changes New 52 brought on.

Speaking of video games, we still have the Batman Arkham games and Scribblenauts Unmasked, which are some of the better DC games out there. Heck, I read the Scribblenauts Unmasked comic series, which I thought was alot of fun.

And need I remind you people of the DC Animated universe? with Paul Dini writing some of the best superhero shows to ever grace TV? with stars like Kevin Conroy, Mark Hamil, and George Newbern leading their voices?

My point is, I actually it can be pretty easy to be a DC Fan, but like any franchise as large and expansions as the DC Universe, all you need to do is look out for what's good and avoid what you think is bad.

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are not part of the DC Cinematic Universe.

 

[SweetShark]

I love Superman. I am just sad he gets completely overshadowed by Batman which is just wrong because Supes is the face of DC.

Heck I bet Marvel fans hate it when Spiderman gets all the spotlight.

And like I said before I have seen worse portrayals of Superman then this. And no its not just At Earth's End. Look at this panal from Act of God and is also an example of a badly portrayed Wonder Woman:

https://youtu.be/lSrO1puobWQ?t=425

Umm...no, I love it when Spiderman get the Spotlight. This Spiderman deserve it in the movie. All the characters deserve a spotlight.
Also I believe in my opinion this is the best incarnation of Spiderman I ever saw in a movie.
Because lets face it, Peter Parker is a teenager. A teenager who doesn't actually saw or experienced any kind of real danger for his life. That why we see him so playful and yes, smartass like in the comics we know.
Plus Ironman knows that Peter is still a young man who doesn't know his limits, that why he told him at some point to stop fighting at some point. Because Tony didn't wanted to see this kid get hurt.

This is what I was talking about that this is not about just a character, but the interaction of all heroes between them.
As I said in a Thread, One-Punch Man wouldn't be a great comic/manga/whatever if the other characters as well wasn't trying to make his adventures more interesting.
The same goes with Civil War movie: This is a movie about Captain America. But being a Captain America movie doesn't mean the other charatcers shouldn't be more interesting than him.

What I am trying to say Civil War is Excellent.

 

[SweetShark]

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are not part of the DC Cinematic Universe.

I am very glad to hear that.
But then Dark Knight Rises is part of DC Cinematic Universe?

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Also I like how you use that one image of New 52 superman to paint him as an angsty asshole. And not show images like this:

Christ that was one my least favourite directions in New52. He's still an angsty asshole who thanks to the greatest superpower of all (the writer's favour) has punched well above his fucking weight in terms of romantic partners. Mind I'm bias against Superman and Wonder Woman as a romantic couple so take that statement for what it is.

I'm the opposite. Its a Romance that was meant to be. More so then Batman x Wonder Woman.

Batman's one true pairing is Catwoman.

I'm a fan of juxtaposition (if that's the right word) but I was also brought into DC by Justice League and Paul Dini and Bruce Timm were banging that drum to a charming beat.

As far as I'm concerned, the only romantic pairings in the DC universe worth time paying attention to are Wonder Woman/Batman, Hawk Girl/John Stewart, and The Question/Huntress.

I'm fond of Clark and Lois (even if only due to grandfather clause), indeed one moment in BvS that comes across as real is the part where he jumps into the back with her. It's oddly sweet and totally human. Shame the rest of the movie was incapable of that

I can't stand this Lois. I just hate her. She feels like she's shoe horned in (Because she is), she brings exactly zero things to the overall story/movie, their 'romance' feels awkward and forced, and she just can't keep her god damn hands off of Clark's face. That last one is probably purely a personal problem, but it just rubs me the wrong damn way. It's like she want's to merge onto it and become his beard, like some sort of bizarre angler fish.

Does anyone even really like her at all? Her DCEU version is complete pants, but I couldn't stand her in the Superman movies, Superman TAS, and even the comics. Though when she gets to know Clark's identity and they get married, her bitchiness lowers.

I hate her and the numerous rip offs she has spawned. That horrible arc with Vicki Vale after Batman died and Dick took over where she spent all her time trying to prove that Bruce was Batman, Dick is Batman, and that Bruce is dead. Who does that help, dickhead?

 

[Cicada 5]

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are not part of the DC Cinematic Universe.

I am very glad to hear that.
But then Dark Knight Rises is part of DC Cinematic Universe?

Nope. The Nolan Trilogy (Batman Begins, Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises) is completely separate from the DC Cinematic Universe.

 

[SweetShark]

Spoiler

Also I like how you use that one image of New 52 superman to paint him as an angsty asshole. And not show images like this:

Christ that was one my least favourite directions in New52. He's still an angsty asshole who thanks to the greatest superpower of all (the writer's favour) has punched well above his fucking weight in terms of romantic partners. Mind I'm bias against Superman and Wonder Woman as a romantic couple so take that statement for what it is.

I'm the opposite. Its a Romance that was meant to be. More so then Batman x Wonder Woman.

Batman's one true pairing is Catwoman.

I'm a fan of juxtaposition (if that's the right word) but I was also brought into DC by Justice League and Paul Dini and Bruce Timm were banging that drum to a charming beat.

As far as I'm concerned, the only romantic pairings in the DC universe worth time paying attention to are Wonder Woman/Batman, Hawk Girl/John Stewart, and The Question/Huntress.

I prefer when Batman make out with a Furry Girl and Wonder Woman just saw this moment.
I mean, He is a Bat and she is a Felid. It make sense yo.

 

[Cicada 5]

I love Superman. I am just sad he gets completely overshadowed by Batman which is just wrong because Supes is the face of DC.

Heck I bet Marvel fans hate it when Spiderman gets all the spotlight.

And like I said before I have seen worse portrayals of Superman then this. And no its not just At Earth's End. Look at this panal from Act of God and is also an example of a badly portrayed Wonder Woman:

https://youtu.be/lSrO1puobWQ?t=425

Umm...no, I love it when Spiderman get the Spotlight. This Spiderman deserve it in the movie. All the characters deserve a spotlight.
Also I believe in my opinion this is the best incarnation of Spiderman I ever saw in a movie.
Because lets face it, Peter Parker is a teenager. A teenager who doesn't actually saw or experienced any kind of real danger for his life. That why we see him so playful and yes, smartass like in the comics we know.
Plus Ironman knows that Peter is still a young man who doesn't know his limits, that why he told him at some point to stop fighting at some point. Because Tony didn't wanted to see this kid get hurt.

This is what I was talking about that this is not about just a character, but the interaction of all heroes between them.
As I said in a Thread, One-Punch Man wouldn't be a great comic/manga/whatever if the other characters as well wasn't trying to make his adventures more interesting.
The same goes with Civil War movie: This is a movie about Captain America. But being a Captain America movie doesn't mean the other charatcers shouldn't be more interesting than him.

What I am trying to say Civil War is Excellent.

If he didn't want the kid to get hurt, why recruit him in the first place? I mean, Tony's entire reason for siding with the Accords is because some woman lost her son in a battle that resulted from Tony's hubris. Yet here he is recruiting an impressionable teenager to fight some of the most dangerous men and women on the planet. Good thing SPider-Man has yet another movie coming out other wise Tony would be getting a visit from a certain May Parker.

 

[SweetShark]

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are not part of the DC Cinematic Universe.

I am very glad to hear that.
But then Dark Knight Rises is part of DC Cinematic Universe?

Nope. The Nolan Trilogy (Batman Begins, Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises) is completely separate from the DC Cinematic Universe.

YES!!! I love that.
Then maybe there is hope to see a Nightwing/Robin Batman movie base the Nolan Universe.
Big Dream but not impossible.

 

[SweetShark]

I love Superman. I am just sad he gets completely overshadowed by Batman which is just wrong because Supes is the face of DC.

Heck I bet Marvel fans hate it when Spiderman gets all the spotlight.

And like I said before I have seen worse portrayals of Superman then this. And no its not just At Earth's End. Look at this panal from Act of God and is also an example of a badly portrayed Wonder Woman:

https://youtu.be/lSrO1puobWQ?t=425

Umm...no, I love it when Spiderman get the Spotlight. This Spiderman deserve it in the movie. All the characters deserve a spotlight.
Also I believe in my opinion this is the best incarnation of Spiderman I ever saw in a movie.
Because lets face it, Peter Parker is a teenager. A teenager who doesn't actually saw or experienced any kind of real danger for his life. That why we see him so playful and yes, smartass like in the comics we know.
Plus Ironman knows that Peter is still a young man who doesn't know his limits, that why he told him at some point to stop fighting at some point. Because Tony didn't wanted to see this kid get hurt.

This is what I was talking about that this is not about just a character, but the interaction of all heroes between them.
As I said in a Thread, One-Punch Man wouldn't be a great comic/manga/whatever if the other characters as well wasn't trying to make his adventures more interesting.
The same goes with Civil War movie: This is a movie about Captain America. But being a Captain America movie doesn't mean the other charatcers shouldn't be more interesting than him.

What I am trying to say Civil War is Excellent.

If he didn't want the kid to get hurt, why recruit him in the first place? I mean, Tony's entire reason for siding with the Accords is because some woman lost her son in a battle that resulted from Tony's hubris. Yet here he is recruiting an impressionable teenager to fight some of the most dangerous men and women on the planet. Good thing SPider-Man has yet another movie coming out other wise Tony would be getting a visit from a certain May Parker.

First of, none was fighting to kill. I am very sure if Scarlet Witch and Vision was free to kill anybody, I think you would see dead bodies lying around...
Second Tony Stark knew Spiderman had experience with other heroic deeds by helping people around his city. Not something extremly dangerous, like fighting a super villain, but his first baby steps.
Third, Tony told him to keep his distant and shoot his web, NOT to engage. Spiderman being a teenager, didn't listen him at all.
Finally, Tony didn't had other option to find other heroes to help him.
Yes, in the comics I am veru sure Tony could very easily find other heroes to help him. But this is a Cinematic Universe. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't remember another kind of hero laying around to help Tony. Yes, his Super mutated Girlfriend is one, but Tony have his personal issue so that why he didn't asked her for her help.
However I will tell this: Maybe he could ask help from Nick Fury, but I don't remember what happened with him.

 

[Cicada 5]

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are not part of the DC Cinematic Universe.

I am very glad to hear that.
But then Dark Knight Rises is part of DC Cinematic Universe?

Nope. The Nolan Trilogy (Batman Begins, Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises) is completely separate from the DC Cinematic Universe.

YES!!! I love that.
Then maybe there is hope to see a Nightwing/Robin Batman movie base the Nolan Universe.
Big Dream but not impossible.

Eh, I doubt that highly. The film makers were very adamant that Rises would be the last entry in the Nolan Trilogy.

 

[Cicada 5]

I love Superman. I am just sad he gets completely overshadowed by Batman which is just wrong because Supes is the face of DC.

Heck I bet Marvel fans hate it when Spiderman gets all the spotlight.

And like I said before I have seen worse portrayals of Superman then this. And no its not just At Earth's End. Look at this panal from Act of God and is also an example of a badly portrayed Wonder Woman:

https://youtu.be/lSrO1puobWQ?t=425

Umm...no, I love it when Spiderman get the Spotlight. This Spiderman deserve it in the movie. All the characters deserve a spotlight.
Also I believe in my opinion this is the best incarnation of Spiderman I ever saw in a movie.
Because lets face it, Peter Parker is a teenager. A teenager who doesn't actually saw or experienced any kind of real danger for his life. That why we see him so playful and yes, smartass like in the comics we know.
Plus Ironman knows that Peter is still a young man who doesn't know his limits, that why he told him at some point to stop fighting at some point. Because Tony didn't wanted to see this kid get hurt.

This is what I was talking about that this is not about just a character, but the interaction of all heroes between them.
As I said in a Thread, One-Punch Man wouldn't be a great comic/manga/whatever if the other characters as well wasn't trying to make his adventures more interesting.
The same goes with Civil War movie: This is a movie about Captain America. But being a Captain America movie doesn't mean the other charatcers shouldn't be more interesting than him.

What I am trying to say Civil War is Excellent.

If he didn't want the kid to get hurt, why recruit him in the first place? I mean, Tony's entire reason for siding with the Accords is because some woman lost her son in a battle that resulted from Tony's hubris. Yet here he is recruiting an impressionable teenager to fight some of the most dangerous men and women on the planet. Good thing SPider-Man has yet another movie coming out other wise Tony would be getting a visit from a certain May Parker.

First of, none was fighting to kill. I am very sure if Scarlet Witch and Vision was free to kill anybody, I think you would see dead bodies lying around...
Second Tony Stark knew Spiderman had experience with other heroic deeds by helping people around his city. Not something extremly dangerous, like fighting a super villain, but his first baby steps.
Third, Tony told him to keep his distant and shoot his web, NOT to engage. Spiderman being a teenager, didn't listen him at all.
Finally, Tony didn't had other option to find other heroes to help him.
Yes, in the comics I am veru sure Tony could very easily find other heroes to help him. But this is a Cinematic Universe. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't remember another kind of hero laying around to help Tony. Yes, his Super mutated Girlfriend is one, but Tony have his personal issue so that why he didn't asked her for her help.
However I will tell this: Maybe he could ask help from Nick Fury, but I don't remember what happened with him.

1) Injuries and death can still occur in fights were the combatants aren't aiming to kill. Hell, Rhodey ends up crippled at the airport fight. Imagine if that had been Peter instead? Let's not forget that at least two of these fighters (Scarlet Witch and Winter Soldier) are not mentally sound and could end up doing something more lethal in the heat of battle.

2)I seriously doubt any experience Peter has compares to the other Avengers who have fought terrorists, alien invaders and sentient killer robots.

3) "Tony told him to keep his distant and shoot his web, NOT to engage. Spiderman being a teenager, didn't listen him at all." Another reason why recruiting a teenager was a stupid idea. That Stark didn't foresee this idiocy is further damning on his part.

4) Between himself, War Machine and Vision he had more than enough fire power to deal with Steve's team. He didn't need to recruit a guy who isn't even old enough to drink.

 

[SweetShark]

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are not part of the DC Cinematic Universe.

I am very glad to hear that.
But then Dark Knight Rises is part of DC Cinematic Universe?

Nope. The Nolan Trilogy (Batman Begins, Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises) is completely separate from the DC Cinematic Universe.

YES!!! I love that.
Then maybe there is hope to see a Nightwing/Robin Batman movie base the Nolan Universe.
Big Dream but not impossible.

Eh, I doubt that highly. The film makers were very adamant that Rises would be the last entry in the Nolan Trilogy.

Then I can say I respect that. I am sorry, but I am really bad following the news about the production/development of a movie.

 

[SweetShark]

I love Superman. I am just sad he gets completely overshadowed by Batman which is just wrong because Supes is the face of DC.

Heck I bet Marvel fans hate it when Spiderman gets all the spotlight.

And like I said before I have seen worse portrayals of Superman then this. And no its not just At Earth's End. Look at this panal from Act of God and is also an example of a badly portrayed Wonder Woman:

https://youtu.be/lSrO1puobWQ?t=425

Umm...no, I love it when Spiderman get the Spotlight. This Spiderman deserve it in the movie. All the characters deserve a spotlight.
Also I believe in my opinion this is the best incarnation of Spiderman I ever saw in a movie.
Because lets face it, Peter Parker is a teenager. A teenager who doesn't actually saw or experienced any kind of real danger for his life. That why we see him so playful and yes, smartass like in the comics we know.
Plus Ironman knows that Peter is still a young man who doesn't know his limits, that why he told him at some point to stop fighting at some point. Because Tony didn't wanted to see this kid get hurt.

This is what I was talking about that this is not about just a character, but the interaction of all heroes between them.
As I said in a Thread, One-Punch Man wouldn't be a great comic/manga/whatever if the other characters as well wasn't trying to make his adventures more interesting.
The same goes with Civil War movie: This is a movie about Captain America. But being a Captain America movie doesn't mean the other charatcers shouldn't be more interesting than him.

What I am trying to say Civil War is Excellent.

If he didn't want the kid to get hurt, why recruit him in the first place? I mean, Tony's entire reason for siding with the Accords is because some woman lost her son in a battle that resulted from Tony's hubris. Yet here he is recruiting an impressionable teenager to fight some of the most dangerous men and women on the planet. Good thing SPider-Man has yet another movie coming out other wise Tony would be getting a visit from a certain May Parker.

First of, none was fighting to kill. I am very sure if Scarlet Witch and Vision was free to kill anybody, I think you would see dead bodies lying around...
Second Tony Stark knew Spiderman had experience with other heroic deeds by helping people around his city. Not something extremly dangerous, like fighting a super villain, but his first baby steps.
Third, Tony told him to keep his distant and shoot his web, NOT to engage. Spiderman being a teenager, didn't listen him at all.
Finally, Tony didn't had other option to find other heroes to help him.
Yes, in the comics I am veru sure Tony could very easily find other heroes to help him. But this is a Cinematic Universe. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't remember another kind of hero laying around to help Tony. Yes, his Super mutated Girlfriend is one, but Tony have his personal issue so that why he didn't asked her for her help.
However I will tell this: Maybe he could ask help from Nick Fury, but I don't remember what happened with him.

1) Injuries and death can still occur in fights were the combatants aren't aiming to kill. Hell, Rhodey ends up crippled at the airport fight. Imagine if that had been Peter instead? Let's not forget that at least two of these fighters (Scarlet Witch and Winter Soldier) are not mentally sound and could end up doing something more lethal in the heat of battle.

2)I seriously doubt any experience Peter has compares to the other Avengers who have fought terrorists, alien invaders and sentient killer robots.

3) "Tony told him to keep his distant and shoot his web, NOT to engage. Spiderman being a teenager, didn't listen him at all." Another reason why recruiting a teenager was a stupid idea. That Stark didn't foresee this idiocy is further damning on his part.

4) Between himself, War Machine and Vision he had more than enough fire power to deal with Steve's team. He didn't need to recruit a guy who isn't even old enough to drink.

Hehe, I love this debate. Danganronpa!!! *music start playing. Truth Swords ready to slide*

1) Tony Stark knew the potentials Spiderman have as a intividual hero. He knew about his super strength, his web, his spider instict. Tony doesn't just found a hero just for the heck of it to be expendable. Tony knew he will be alright.

2) My point was Spiderman wasn't clueless as a hero. He saved many peoples in many dangerous situations. Yes, there are many other heroes who saved, well, Humanity from aliens, robots, etc., but this doesn't mean Spiderman is a pussover. Spiderman after all is very smart as well, which use it to his advantange.

3) Now here I will agree with you. I think it would be neccessery at least a scene which Tony yell to Peter to not engage the other heroes because is dangerous. And then maybe showed Tony just give up because....well, he is Tony.

4) Well, this is not true in the end, because we saw Scarlet Witch b*tch slap Vision and Captain American being a Superhuman be able to compite with Iroman himself, so the fear of Tony not having enough allies was correct.

 

[Cicada 5]

I love Superman. I am just sad he gets completely overshadowed by Batman which is just wrong because Supes is the face of DC.

Heck I bet Marvel fans hate it when Spiderman gets all the spotlight.

And like I said before I have seen worse portrayals of Superman then this. And no its not just At Earth's End. Look at this panal from Act of God and is also an example of a badly portrayed Wonder Woman:

https://youtu.be/lSrO1puobWQ?t=425

Umm...no, I love it when Spiderman get the Spotlight. This Spiderman deserve it in the movie. All the characters deserve a spotlight.
Also I believe in my opinion this is the best incarnation of Spiderman I ever saw in a movie.
Because lets face it, Peter Parker is a teenager. A teenager who doesn't actually saw or experienced any kind of real danger for his life. That why we see him so playful and yes, smartass like in the comics we know.
Plus Ironman knows that Peter is still a young man who doesn't know his limits, that why he told him at some point to stop fighting at some point. Because Tony didn't wanted to see this kid get hurt.

This is what I was talking about that this is not about just a character, but the interaction of all heroes between them.
As I said in a Thread, One-Punch Man wouldn't be a great comic/manga/whatever if the other characters as well wasn't trying to make his adventures more interesting.
The same goes with Civil War movie: This is a movie about Captain America. But being a Captain America movie doesn't mean the other charatcers shouldn't be more interesting than him.

What I am trying to say Civil War is Excellent.

If he didn't want the kid to get hurt, why recruit him in the first place? I mean, Tony's entire reason for siding with the Accords is because some woman lost her son in a battle that resulted from Tony's hubris. Yet here he is recruiting an impressionable teenager to fight some of the most dangerous men and women on the planet. Good thing SPider-Man has yet another movie coming out other wise Tony would be getting a visit from a certain May Parker.

First of, none was fighting to kill. I am very sure if Scarlet Witch and Vision was free to kill anybody, I think you would see dead bodies lying around...
Second Tony Stark knew Spiderman had experience with other heroic deeds by helping people around his city. Not something extremly dangerous, like fighting a super villain, but his first baby steps.
Third, Tony told him to keep his distant and shoot his web, NOT to engage. Spiderman being a teenager, didn't listen him at all.
Finally, Tony didn't had other option to find other heroes to help him.
Yes, in the comics I am veru sure Tony could very easily find other heroes to help him. But this is a Cinematic Universe. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't remember another kind of hero laying around to help Tony. Yes, his Super mutated Girlfriend is one, but Tony have his personal issue so that why he didn't asked her for her help.
However I will tell this: Maybe he could ask help from Nick Fury, but I don't remember what happened with him.

1) Injuries and death can still occur in fights were the combatants aren't aiming to kill. Hell, Rhodey ends up crippled at the airport fight. Imagine if that had been Peter instead? Let's not forget that at least two of these fighters (Scarlet Witch and Winter Soldier) are not mentally sound and could end up doing something more lethal in the heat of battle.

2)I seriously doubt any experience Peter has compares to the other Avengers who have fought terrorists, alien invaders and sentient killer robots.

3) "Tony told him to keep his distant and shoot his web, NOT to engage. Spiderman being a teenager, didn't listen him at all." Another reason why recruiting a teenager was a stupid idea. That Stark didn't foresee this idiocy is further damning on his part.

4) Between himself, War Machine and Vision he had more than enough fire power to deal with Steve's team. He didn't need to recruit a guy who isn't even old enough to drink.

Hehe, I love this debate. Danganronpa!!! *music start playing. Truth Swords ready to slide*

1) Tony Stark knew the potentials Spiderman have as a intividual hero. He knew about his super strength, his web, his spider instict. Tony doesn't just found a hero just for the heck of it to be expendable. Tony knew he will be alright.

2) My point was Spiderman wasn't clueless as a hero. He saved many peoples in many dangerous situations. Yes, there are many other heroes who saved, well, Humanity from aliens, robots, etc., but this doesn't mean Spiderman is a pussover. Spiderman after all is very smart as well, which use it to his advantange.

3) Now here I will agree with you. I think it would be neccessery at least a scene which Tony yell to Peter to not engage the other heroes because is dangerous. And then maybe showed Tony just give up because....well, he is Tony.

4) Well, this is not true in the end, because we saw Scarlet Witch b*tch slap Vision and Captain American being a Superhuman be able to compite with Iroman himself, so the fear of Tony not having enough allies was correct.

1) Unless Tony has a fourth wall breaking super power that allowed him to know there was an upcoming Spider-Man movie, then no, he couldn't have known that Peter would be all right. Rhodey sure as hell was not at the end.

2) We don't know what this SPider-Man has faced, if he's battled any major villains. No matter how much power he has, he is still a TEENAGER. The only reason the plot armor didn't fail him like it did Rhodey is because of the upcoming Spider-Man movie. Without that, Tony would have been getting a speech similar to Alfre Woodard's character from May Parker. Peter survives through dumb luck, nothing more.

4) And how would bringing a teenager into this situation help? What would have happened if Wanda lost control of her powers at an inopportune time and crippled or killed Peter.

 

[Cicada 5]

I agree with the post's title. Maybe not with Samtemdo8's rant in general, but the title yes. It is kind of hard to be a DC fan... considering that their version of the shared movie universe absolutely blows.

The nearly unwatchable shaky-cam mess that was Man of Steel, they did tone that stupid camera gimmick down for BvS. But they didn't eliminate the stupid shaky-cam, and they made enough other mistakes that BvS wound up even worse than MoS which again I found nearly unwatchable.

Oh and by the way. The overuse of shaky-cam is annoying me with the Russo brothers as well. Winter Soldier and Civil War both destroyed what should have been amazing action sequences with ham-handed shaky-cam. I'm already wishing they get the boot for Infinity Wars. Or at least let them be script supervisors, but keep their ham-fists off the Paul Greengrass button.

And even prior to the shared universe that they started with the awful MoS, DC has disappointed way more often than not. They did have 2 good Batman iterations, no question. And one good iteration of Superman, so long ago it really barely counts. But that's BATMAN and SUPERMAN. The two most iconic superheroes ever created. People are ALWAYS going to like stories about them, some people even defend MoS and BvS. But what Marvel has done, that it's a real shame that DC apparently CAN'T do, is make any other characters into worthwile movies.

Mostly, Green Lantern. The lesson WB learned from the Green Lantern movie seems to be "WOW, people hate this guy. Let's just leave him out of the new DC MoS verse entirely." And that was WRONG. Fans don't HATE the character Green Lantern (any iteration, except for the racists bashing John Stewart,) they HATE that WB made a really shitty movie out of what could and should have easily been a slam dunk of a great comic book movie.

But also, Jonah Hex. The one that hurts me the most, because It's my favorite comic. Success should have been easy. Joe R. Lansdale writes, Don Coscarelli directs... boom, success. Why, Coscarelli already directed a short story Lansdale wrote, Lansdale wrote issues of Jonah Hex (and also great episodes of the 90's Batman cartoons.) And with Lansdale writing and Jonah Hex being dark anyway, WB would have gotten the super grimdark movie that obviously appeals to them so freaking much.

Green Lantern isn't being left out of the DCEU. He's just not appearing in Justice League. The Green Lantern movie will be an ensemble piece revolving around members of the Green Lantern Corps which imo, is a better direction than just having one character dominate the franchise at the expense of others.

 

[DefunctTheory]

As someone currently sitting in a theater, waiting for Civil War to start... Maybe this isn't the thread to be in if you want to dance this close to spoilers.

 

[wallstaples]

DC is an excellent animation and comic company that sometimes makes bad movies to pay the bills, and that's okay with me.