"It's Not Like I Reich You Or Anything"

Uriel_Hayabusa

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One of my favorite Critical Miss comics in quite some time! The point is spot-on, pop culture loves to romanticize the hell out of groups, organisations and people that aren't nearly as appealing as fantasies can make them seem.
 

SacremPyrobolum

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Man, you people are no fun. I would by the shit out of a SS themed dating sim. Or at least watch an LP of it.

And are we really ragging on Civil War reenactors? Do you rag on Benedict Cumberbatch for being a slave owner in 12 Days a Slave as well? It was probably the most important war in American history, save the Revolution, are you surprised that there are people who want to watch and act out the events the occurred?
 

maxben

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Kalezian said:
Zombie Badger said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
But then again, Americans have been re-enacting the Civil War since about two weeks after the last shots were fired, so who am I to judge?
Hell, many Americans glorify the side that fought for the right to own black people and hang their flag outside their houses.

....... okay, let me break it down for you.

The Civil War was not about the right of slavery.

Slavery was a side effect of the reasons of the American Civil War. The reason it was fought was because the Confederates believed the federal government did not have the right to press federal laws onto the states.

this still happens as well. look at any 'groundbreaking' law passed in the last 20 or 30 years and how many states file suit against the federal government in order to block various laws such as the Affordable Healthcare act and the various Defense of Marriage act laws that were passed since it's creation.

The main difference though is the confederates during the civil war actually stood up for what they believed was right instead of sitting on their couch being angry at nothing and not having the balls to actually fight for it.
The slave owning states wanted slavery to expand, not to protect their own right to own slaves. The slaver extremists wanted California to split so that slavery will prevail in Souther California, knowing that the majority of Californians wanted to abolish slavery. Their whole argument was economic and ideological, that slavery is awesome and needs to expand. Then, the Southerners wanted to ban Northern sates who did not accept slavery to return all slaves who ran there for refuge. I'm sorry, but just because weed is legal in Colorado does not mean you can go across state lines, have it confiscated as an illegal substance, then demand that it be returned to you when you are in Colorado again. Hence, they infringed on states' rights of the North to push their agenda. Then they used voter fraud in a couple of situation to get their way.

And this kind of hypocrisy still happens today.
 

Username Redacted

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Zombie Badger said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
But then again, Americans have been re-enacting the Civil War since about two weeks after the last shots were fired, so who am I to judge?
Hell, many Americans glorify the side that fought for the right to own black people and hang their flag outside their houses.
*sigh* Yeah. I live in Maryland (i.e. a region that probably would have seceded had it been given the chance). This means that I occasionally encounter what you're describing. Recently this took the form of spotting a car with a pair of flags attached to its windows. Now, in this area you're most likely to see Redskins flags adorning cars (burgundy and gold; also a problem for similar but different reasons than being discussed here), some Orioles flags (black and orange) and maybe a few Baltimore Ravens flags (purple and black) with a rare Washington Capitals flag (red, white and blue) popping up. I have yet to see a Washington Nationals (red and white) or Washington Wizards (stupid name; red, white and blue). The flags in questions where red, white and blue. So, any way as I'm getting closer to the car I'm thinking "Please be Capitals flags" (the most likely of the red, white and blue options). Nope, confederate flags. Goddammit.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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Imp Emissary said:
Don't get worn, I like Japan, and I have German ancestry, so it's not like I hate them all for these mistakes of their pasts. It would just be nice if they were more upfront about it.

Then again, America has similar issues with some of it's citizens not wanting to admit the country did some terrible terrible thing in it's past too. Some just as if not more recent than WW2.

Hell, we still have people who try to say the civil war[sub](sidenote: that's an ironic thing to call a war)[/sub] wasn't about slavery. ;p
I think a lot of the issues concerning America's past is in part because folks tend to whack us upside the head with it whenever they get the chance (not talking of contemporary history). Its a sore spot for some of us, akin to taking potshots at modern day Germans because of the Nazis. I believe fully in remembering the past so we don't make the same mistakes, but holding it against folks who weren't even alive then is a bit much. The only way to move forward is to leave previous steps behind, and so.
Also there are other things that happened to cause the Civil War along with the abolition of slavery. It was about economy and such, which the slave trade was a part of. I feel that the other issues get glossed over because of how big an issue the civil rights part was, but it wasn't the whole. However there are some people who only see those issues as well. Me, I try to see the bigger picture of things, because its never just one thing that causes these type of events, its a cascade effect sparked by a lot of issues coming to a head.
I'm also of German descent, having family that came over here post WWI.
Yeah America has done some f'ed up things, Japan too. If you really want to look back in historical terms, I don't think there are many countries that don't have some messed up practices in their past. Maybe a handful, if that.
Japan has always had an ego though, one that befits a country at least 3x their size... which is possibly an unconscious reason people make small-dick jokes about them.
I'd like it if the world at large could take responsibility for each nation's history and make a pact to move forward without (and I really detest the term) whitewashing over the bad parts while at the same time stop trying to come across as better-than. We're all human at our core, no matter what our cultures, races, etc. We're all part of one friggin' planet and the sooner we realize we're all in this together, that our differences aren't really so different, we breathe the same bleed the same, have similar needs and desires however we apply them.
Sometimes I think we need some extraterrestrial threat to come about to bind us together and make us realize that political stance, religion, race, gender, sexual orientation don't matter a hill of beans because none of it makes us better, just diverse. And if we don't get it together we'll have no future.
I don't know if I have much of a point, just a hope and probably misguided faith that we have it in us to do better, to do right by each other even if we don't like each other or agree on everything.
 

Zombie Badger

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Kalezian said:
Zombie Badger said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
But then again, Americans have been re-enacting the Civil War since about two weeks after the last shots were fired, so who am I to judge?
Hell, many Americans glorify the side that fought for the right to own black people and hang their flag outside their houses.

....... okay, let me break it down for you.

The Civil War was not about the right of slavery.

Slavery was a side effect of the reasons of the American Civil War. The reason it was fought was because the Confederates believed the federal government did not have the right to press federal laws onto the states.
If slavery had not existed then what issue would they have seceded over?
 

jhoroz

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We should just fetishise the Hiroshima bombing. Then they'll see how disgusting and insensitive this really is.
 

Uriel_Hayabusa

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jhoroz said:
We should just fetishise the Hiroshima bombing. Then they'll see how disgusting and insensitive this really is.
Sounds like a job for James Cameron, really. I mean, he used the sinking of the Titanic as the backdrop for a trite love story and it became one of the highest grossing motion pictures of all time.
 

Zombie Badger

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jhoroz said:
We should just fetishise the Hiroshima bombing. Then they'll see how disgusting and insensitive this really is.
A dating sim where your love interest is the Enola Gay pilot and you convince him to drop the bomb through the power of lovvvvvvve!
 

jhoroz

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Zombie Badger said:
jhoroz said:
We should just fetishise the Hiroshima bombing. Then they'll see how disgusting and insensitive this really is.
A dating sim where your love interest is the Enola Gay pilot and you convince him to drop the bomb through the power of lovvvvvvve!
How I Loved To Stop Worrying and Love The Hiroshima Bomb
 

tzimize

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Daystar Clarion said:
Next up, My Little Third Reich, where the Nazi 6 discover that friendship and genocide go hand in hand.
Hahahahahaha, this strip was hilarious and this thread is the same. Its funny because its true ^^
 

Phrozenflame500

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Kalezian said:
....... okay, let me break it down for you.

The Civil War was not about the right of slavery.
Let me stop you right there.

At risk of derailing the thread, please explain to me why why the Mississippi declaration of Secession directly cites slavery as their reason for secession:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product, which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun.

Or really most of the decelerations such as the Texas's which has this extract:
She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery - the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits - a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.

Or Georgia's which also cites slavery in the opening paragraph:

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.

If you want to be really pedantic you can claim the the civil war was about "state's rights", but the right in question was the right to own slaves so really it was about slavery in the end.

EDIT: <url=http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html#Texas>A link to the Declaration of Causes of Seceding States since I found them all on a single webpage
 

Imp_Emissary

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Imperioratorex Caprae said:
Imp Emissary said:
Don't get worn, I like Japan, and I have German ancestry, so it's not like I hate them all for these mistakes of their pasts. It would just be nice if they were more upfront about it.

Then again, America has similar issues with some of it's citizens not wanting to admit the country did some terrible terrible thing in it's past too. Some just as if not more recent than WW2.

Hell, we still have people who try to say the civil war[sub](sidenote: that's an ironic thing to call a war)[/sub] wasn't about slavery. ;p
I think a lot of the issues concerning America's past is in part because folks tend to whack us upside the head with it whenever they get the chance (not talking of contemporary history). Its a sore spot for some of us, akin to taking potshots at modern day Germans because of the Nazis. I believe fully in remembering the past so we don't make the same mistakes, but holding it against folks who weren't even alive then is a bit much. The only way to move forward is to leave previous steps behind, and so.
Also there are other things that happened to cause the Civil War along with the abolition of slavery. It was about economy and such, which the slave trade was a part of. I feel that the other issues get glossed over because of how big an issue the civil rights part was, but it wasn't the whole. However there are some people who only see those issues as well. Me, I try to see the bigger picture of things, because its never just one thing that causes these type of events, its a cascade effect sparked by a lot of issues coming to a head.
I'm also of German descent, having family that came over here post WWI.
Yeah America has done some f'ed up things, Japan too. If you really want to look back in historical terms, I don't think there are many countries that don't have some messed up practices in their past. Maybe a handful, if that.
Japan has always had an ego though, one that befits a country at least 3x their size... which is possibly an unconscious reason people make small-dick jokes about them.
I'd like it if the world at large could take responsibility for each nation's history and make a pact to move forward without (and I really detest the term) whitewashing over the bad parts while at the same time stop trying to come across as better-than. We're all human at our core, no matter what our cultures, races, etc. We're all part of one friggin' planet and the sooner we realize we're all in this together, that our differences aren't really so different, we breathe the same bleed the same, have similar needs and desires however we apply them.
Sometimes I think we need some extraterrestrial threat to come about to bind us together and make us realize that political stance, religion, race, gender, sexual orientation don't matter a hill of beans because none of it makes us better, just diverse. And if we don't get it together we'll have no future.
I don't know if I have much of a point, just a hope and probably misguided faith that we have it in us to do better, to do right by each other even if we don't like each other or agree on everything.
They don't need to flog themselves daily over it, but keep it in memory as a cautionary tale. Put side by side with a message that if we remember our mistakes, we can move forward and do better.
I didn't even learn about half of what was done until I was late in high school. Even then, not everything. These stories don't need to be told to pass on the guilt, but to pass on the lessons.
Plus, they are morbidly fascinating.

The people who actively try to forget, or worse try to rewrite the history only succeed in bringing it up again. Thus, they doom themselves to hear what they want to avoid. The only way to be free of the scorn of the past is to know it, accept it, and move on. That doesn't mean forgetting, or not talking about it. Just not losing sight of how it fits into the larger picture.

As for Civil war and slavery, the other grievances paled in comparison to slavery. Heck, without the slavery issue there wouldn't have been any war.

Lincoln wasn't even planning outright abolition. He was a moderate. Yet his election was enough for states to start seceding, before he'd even done anything. The fact is the south wasn't just in favor of slavery due to bigotry, it was an economic issue. Without the free labor, they faced great economic decline. It was suppose to be helped after the war, Lincoln was planning on helping them all get back on their feet, but well, he didn't get the chance as you know.

I'm not saying they had no other grievances, but slavery was always the first and the most important, bar none.
 

direkiller

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Kalezian said:
Zombie Badger said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
But then again, Americans have been re-enacting the Civil War since about two weeks after the last shots were fired, so who am I to judge?
Hell, many Americans glorify the side that fought for the right to own black people and hang their flag outside their houses.

....... okay, let me break it down for you.

The Civil War was not about the right of slavery.

Slavery was a side effect of the reasons of the American Civil War. The reason it was fought was because the Confederates
okay, let me break it down for you.

Slavery was not a "side effect", it was the the most mentioned talking point in succession speeches.

South Carolina
" But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution."

Mississippi
"It has grown until it denies the right of property in slaves, and refuses protection to that right on the high seas, in the Territories, and wherever the government of the United States had jurisdiction.

It refuses the admission of new slave States into the Union, and seeks to extinguish it by confining it within its present limits, denying the power of expansion.

It tramples the original equality of the South under foot.

It has nullified the Fugitive Slave Law in almost every free State in the Union, and has utterly broken the compact, which our fathers pledged their faith to maintain.

It advocates negro equality, socially and politically, and promotes insurrection and incendiarism in our midst.

It has enlisted its press, its pulpit and its schools against us, until the whole popular mind of the North is excited and inflamed with prejudice.
It has made combinations and formed associations to carry out its schemes of emancipation in the States and wherever else slavery exists.
It seeks not to elevate or to support the slave, but to destroy his present condition without providing a better."
Florda
In the formation of the Government of our Fathers, the Constitution of 1787, the institution of domestic slavery is recognized, and the right of property in slaves is expressly guaranteed.

The People of a portion of the States who were parties to the Government were early opposed to the institution. The feeling of opposition to it has been cherished, and fostered, and inflamed until it has taken possession of the public mind of the North to such an extent that it overwhelms every other influence. It has seized the political power and now threatens annihilation to slavery thoughout the Union.

At the South, and with our People of course, slavery is the element of all value, and a destruction of that destroys all that is property.

This party, now soon to take possession of the powers of the Government, is sectional, irresponsible to us, and driven on by an infuriated fanatical madness that defies all opposition, must inevitably destroy every vestige or right growing out of property in slaves.

Georga The Cornerstone Address, if you are going to read any of these speeches the whole way, read this one.

But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other-though last, not least: the new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions-African slavery as it exists among us-the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.


"Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition."
 

Jandau

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Dec 19, 2008
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I can kinda see it though...

It's about what something comes to represent - "Nazi" as a word does stand connected to some hideous atrocities, but it's also attached to some positive traits. Think about it for a minute, what do the Nazis symbolize? Discipline, tenacity, efficiency, military skill (these traits are debatable, but it's not about what really was, but what the term came to be associated with). Add to this a strong visual aesthetic and you're on to something. And it doesn't take centuries for this to happen - the young generation of today can't really contextualize the events of WW2 as a "real" thing. Hell, I'm 29 and the closest I can get to having a stake in it is that my grandfather was killed near the end of WW2 (by Communists, so can't even pin that on the Nazis).

Knowing that Hitler did terrible things is one thing. We all know what was done. But the feeling of dread associated with a lot of Nazi iconography just isn't ingrained into young people. Maybe the Swastika, as it's sort of the focal point, but the Eagle and the Cross are just cool, authoritarian symbols at this point.

I'm also guessing that a lot of people who are into this style aren't inherently racist or want to see all the Jews rounded up, they just dig the aesthetic and perceive it separately from the actions that were done by people wearing it over 70 years ago.

That being said, while I don't find the Nazi aesthetic that controversial, Erin is still playing a dating sim where she's helping someone "find all the Juden", which does take it further...
 

Darmani

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Imperioratorex Caprae said:
That should never be a thing, but sadly one day it probably will be...

Also, future Suchong is still a meatbag, how cute.
uHM i'M pretty certain it long since and already is. Albeit he's a "nice" nazi.
Jojo's anyone?
And that manga with Hitler, NO not Adolf from Tezuka.. the OTHER ONE