It's only sexist when Men do it?

[InsanityMan]

I'm going to say it right now, white men are probably one of the most oppressed people.
Sure, that sounds pathetic, and like I'M racist, and sexist, but that's the thing. Let me give you an example.

One night, there's a white male comedian, he jokes about white people, but vaguely jokes about Chinese people, and they throw tomatoes.

The next night, there's a black one. He all out jokes about white people, and Chinese people, and everyone laughs.

The difference there is what? It's okay since he's black? You can replace white with male, black with female, etc, and it would still hold up.

Look, I get it, white males were EXTREMELY racist, and sexist, from when women existed, and from when we discovered black people, to around...After the sixties. Then, the majority of us started settling down, and since then, we've been better. We should stop being punished for something we did CENTURIES ago.

Also, when I think of crazy feminists saying all men are bad, I think "Even Martin Luther King Jr.? My goddamned hero? Even Gandhi? Even Jesus, or Buddha, if they really existed?"

 

[Jonesy911]

that dude needs to sort his life out and get a shag stupid fat moron lmao

...Said the random guy on the internet. I assure you, the guy in the video is doing just fine.

 

[SuperNova221]

Every time he takes the time out to talk seriously about a topic I usually agree 100% with him, this is no exception. I've been annoyed by the exact same thing for a fairly long time, yes, there are sensible feminists that actually go for equality, but the overwhelming majority that I meet go for this double standard, and the worst thing is that I meet lots of men who seem to acknowledge and accept that there's a double standard, but still, aparnetly knowingly, decide to aim for a double standard where women should be held above men.

Just a rambly post, not going to bother reading over or editting it. If it doesn't make sense, deal with it.

 

[Alexi089]

Here's the whole video, plus their appauling excuse for an apology, for anyone who's interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKgwczruOSQ

My short answer to your question would be: 'only an incredibly stupid man or woman takes the view that only men can be sexist'.

I think the more important point to this incident is that a group of people should not be allowed to publicly humiliate anyone like that; and make light of a serious crime without being made to face up to what they've done. Personally, I think Sharon Osbourne and the rest of them should have their network contracts either permeantly cancelled or at least suspended until they have made an in-person apology to the victim of that crime (assuming he'll accept it). Even so, Sharon at least (seeing as she made the most jokes) should certainly be fined or recieve some serious financial penalty for her behaviour. At least Sara Gilbert had enough decency to eventually point out the sexism and severity of what they were doing; and she appeared to show some discomfort with the way the issue was being handled around 2:26 in the video. She took her sweet time getting there though, and she still felt comfortable enough to laugh along with them at some points; so she should certainly be made to apologise properly.

For anyone who disagrees, I'd suggest they look at the case where Russel Brand and Jonathan Ross left an insulting answerphone message on Andrew Sachs' voicemail (stating that Russel had slept with his grand daughter and laughing). Both were dropped by the BBC, and both were made to apologise properly and sincerely for what they'd done. That was a comparatively smaller crime, in my opinion; given that his daughter wasn't mutilated or put through a terrible event against her will.

What I really can't believe is that Sharon and co's apology was deemed acceptable. The woman on the far left didn't make a single apologetic word; she just made excuses for herself and her co- presenters. Sharon didn't even have the nerve to look at the camera when she 'apologised' (while laughing); she didn't apologise to the victim directly at all; she didn't even seem to acknowledge that making fun of it was deplorable. The rest said nothing apologetic.

My two cents is that people shouldn't be allowed to simply walk away when they make insulting racist, sexist or plain malicious remarks about anyone regardless of their gender or race. The more often stupid and immature people are made to face up to their behaviour, the sooner we can have proper equality.

For anyone who makes the argument: 'it was just a joke!?' or 'men have done worse to women before and still do in other countries':

a) You're plain fucking stupid if you think mutilation is acceptable to joke about: Imagine (I assume the majority who make this argument will be women who can't relate to a male victim, so I'll use a female example) if you were Katie Piper, after her acid attack in 2008. Imagine you knew you were going to be permenatly disfigured for the rest of your life (and subject to the inevitable staring and possible judgement of insensitive strangers); you'd just lost your career, you'd been through all that agony of waiting while acid dissolved your face whilst doctors attempted to figure out what acid had been used before they could treat you. Then you had to undergo 40 surgical operations to correct your injuries as much as possible, and you'd have to wear a plastic mask to shape and maintain moisture in the healing tissue for 23 hours a day... Then someone came along one day on their television show and 'just thought it'd be funny to say...'.
Even if that guy's penis can be reconstructed, you can guarantee he'll have to undergo a similar number of operations to get there; plus equal psychological trauma.

b) If a specific person had wronged you, take it up with them; not with completely innocent people of the same gender. (And you're plain fucking stupid)

 

[Jake0fTrades]

I've been preaching this message for a loooooooong time. So far it hasn't gone through.

 

[Lamppenkeyboard]

It's somewhat ironic that he drops some racism about Iran

Yeah they should take it easy about Iran's treatment of the female sex.

 

[Zarkov]

It's somewhat ironic that he drops some racism about Iran

He mentions a third world country to make a point?! Holy shit, RACIST!

Look, dude, I know you probably don't get around to hearing the news a lot but in Iran (for the most part) women are treated like shit. If you look at from that perspective [and I don't know how or why you'd look at it otherwise), it makes sense in the context it was used.

 

[Chelsea O'shea]

As a female, I find this incredibly disgusting. I have had very few problems with being female and must agree that the feminist movement has moved into the "FemiNazi" movement. We got our rights, now we should shut up and find some other people to help like orphans or refugees.

However there are physical differences that must be acknowledged and respected, I am not as strong as my guy-friends but have other talents. However that in no way means girls can be strong or guys can't do things women are generally better at. Just realize that it may not be my specific talent.

Society sucks, I gave up on them ages ago, but as in any movement there are lots of radicals, there are Christians blowing up abortion clinics and many of us do not believe that that is any way to deal with things. There are also Canadians, Americans, Brits etc. (take your pick)we do not like and we condemn but they still make the news and that is what outsiders percieve us as.

this,exactly this,thank you Laura.

 

[phelan511]

I agree with him. Double standards like this just can't be allowed. But yet they are. And he is exactly right, if the roles were reversed there'd be people screaming for their blood.

 

[5mj7R7yf4Dwr3gdZyyu9PeGNwYjlNrjzuh3iTXQG]

Disclaimers:

~ I didn't watch the whole thing. There's only so much I could take.

~ I only skimmed the whole thread, so I may repeat what others have said.

Analysis of the video:

The man has some points:

~ It's embarrassing (but stereotypical of us naked apes) that some of us would laugh at the misfortune of others. Apparently, castration of a man by a woman is funny to the hosts and audience of The Talk. As public figures, they should be more sympathetic to victims of heinous crimes of mutilation. And disturbingly, they openly enjoyed it. And this got past the execs.

~ The reaction to the Russian shopkeeper story is telling. Some find it okay, even funny [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsOkWhenItIsFemaleOnMale], when rape is female on male (or male on male) and it's unfortunate. Indeed, domestic abuse shelters often refuse to accept men even though there's a statistically equal (if not higher) number of male victims of domestic violence than there are women in the US.

~ Indeed, there are many situations factual or fictional which favor women over men. My own pet peeve is the stupid husband, smart wife commercials, and that Ms. Piggy's two brothers in the Muppet version of The Three Pigs were both demonstrably idiots. But that one might be because Ms. Piggy has a contract.

However:

~ The truth of the matter that we still have gender biases, and that men are sometimes discriminated against, is not a reason to disqualify feminism. Indeed, Christians get plenty of flack from non-Christians, but this doesn't lessen the extreme amount of discrimination done in the favor of Christian religions over non-Christian ones. Similarly, Men get many more significant benefits over women in our society than the reverse, and the few incidents in which women prevail don't change that, or the need for a drive towards not only true gender equality, but the end of gender definitions altogether.

~ The same goes for feminist extremism. Islam extremism does not disqualify Islam as a relevant religious path. Nor should the few loud ultra-feminist voices be used to argue against the normalization of gender equality or against feminism in general.[footnote]According to the awsome folks that taught me feminism the goal has to be true equality, or even elimination of gender roles, or feminism isn't taken seriously. Ergo, feminist groups need to apply political pressure wherever gender discrimination is found, whether favoring men or women.[/footnote]

Also:

~ Double standards, while repugnant, remain necessary so long as there are intrinisic discrepancies between select peoples, whether between two races, two genders, or any fringe group and the mainstream. And yes, this creates problems, such as qualified whites losing jobs to less-qualified non-whites, thanks to Affirmative Action, but we've already seen it demonstrated that without such measures, our society just won't integrate. So if you dislike double standards, 1) make a point to not discriminate, or to attribute any character failing with an incidental quality. This takes practice, as we instinctively do so. It's a survival trait. 2) Teach your kids and pressure your friends and family to do the same. The sooner a group is fully integrated into a system, the sooner enforcement policies such as Affirmative Action are ignored, and even repealed.

~ This guy [http://thatfatatheist.com/] is not the voice of reason here. He's the voice of reactionary anger, and he has a legitimate gripe. But he's not going to solve it, and in fact will be dismissed by his positional opponents for his open belligerence about the situation. There's an old cowboy saying The man who draws his gun first is the man who ran out of options.[footnote]It's a Spaghetti Western variant of a Japanese proverb, A man who raises is voice has already lost the argument.[/footnote] He came out of the barn guns ablazin'.

238U.[footnote]In the event that Escapist requires me to view a commercial before getting a code, I will simply not post. Depending on the frequency, this may temper or cease my future participation in the Escapist community. Apologies in advance, if this policy prevents me from replying to you when it is proper to do so.[/footnote]

 

[KaizokuouHasu]

I'm with the guy in the video, all the way.
By the way; he had a magnificent beard! Too bad it accompanied the lisp.

 

[easternflame]

He's right, it's like when women tell you, be a gentleman and open the door for me, that is like if I told her, Be a fucking lady and make me dinner, NONE of those are right of course, not because I'm a man I have to open the door for you, and not because ur a woman you have to make me dinner. But women(in general, calm down folks) kept the things that were convinient to them from the old "Macho" society of the 40's/50's and threw away what they didn't like.

 

[maninahat]

I'm not sure why he keeps bringing up Iran the way he does, and I can "take feminism seriously".
But otherwise, yes. Those were pretty much my exact thoughts after both of those stories.

I think you've got it pegged. I don't like how people are blaming "feminism" for why women find dick mutilation funny. Heck, what man doesn't find a man being kicked in the groin funny? Those same men would never laugh at a woman being slapped in the tits, and that mentality has nothing to do with third wave feminism. It is far older than that.

Culturally, we are conditioned to see violence, rape and bawdiness in general as male traits whilst traits such as restraint and vulnerability are characterised as female. So we have trouble accepting the idea that a man can be vulnerable, even when having his cock chopped off, but we can easily see the vulnerability of a lady getting her tits slapped. It is an ancient double standard. One which still persists to this day. Don't blame feminism for it, but expect feminists to acknowledge that double standards occasionally disadvantage men as well as women.

 

[Private Custard]

Wow... so apparently you guys are all closet racists?

Limb Amputations

http://ncr-iran.org/en/news/26-regime/8443-iran-barbaric-punishment-of-limb-amputation-continue-

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/93645

http://www.iranhumanrights.org/2010/10/amputations-floggings-rising/

etc etc etc...

Oppression of women

I'll just leave this here in the hope you might go and do some reading on the subject. There's lots of info out there

http://www.uncoverage.net/2011/06/video-oppression-of-women-in-iran/


Iran is a country that seems to have a hell of a lot of people joining together to become what is commonly known as a huge fucking crowd, whenever people are publicly beaten or executed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu-SdgDx_kY



I never said everyone in the region was a woman oppressor or limb amputator. And I also think you really need to open your eyes before falling back on the racism accuations.

Just because you got on your high-horse, and I also recieved a warning for my post, I won't take back what I said. Women are seen as second class citizens and punishments for all are brutal and public.

I can see myself getting banned for this. But hey, fuck it, I hate this 'community' more and more each day.

 

[spartan231490]

It's somewhat ironic that he drops some racism about Iran

*Edit: So I've been quoted a dozen times about mostly how it's not racist (and a few who agree it is). Let's just put that into perspective. He says imagine a bunch of guys sitting around talking about how someone chopped of a woman's tits and clit, and then "where would you imagine that happening, Iran maybe?". On the one hand, yes it *could* happen in Iran but it could happen in America too. It's frankly not very different from if he were talking about robberies and asked "Someone robs a bank and kills two people. Who do you think did it, a black guy maybe??" Point is, yeah Iran has some pretty sexist laws and traditions but that doesn't mean they obviously hate women, and therefore it's not racist to say that it seems obvious that the aformentioned mutilation could be laughed about there.

Anyway besides the ridiculousness of having to defend calling his statement racist, I was actually finding it funny, not offensive. Even if it's only very slightly racist, to the smallest degree, it's still pretty ironic that he'd however slightly perpetrate one bad ideal whilst being so stalwart in attacking another.

It was hyperbole. He wasn't suggesting that it would actually happen in Iran. He was just using the country that is most recognized in American culture as being sexist. And even if he was, It's not racist. A) he pointed out a country, not a race, and b) it's no more racist than seeing an news article about a kid going to the MBA after his 1st year of high school and thinking that he's probably black. That's not racist, it's reality. Some stereotypes are true, and there is nothing wrong with admitting that. If anything, denying it is racist.

 

[Terminate421]

Joke:

This is what happens when we let women get their rights. They want to be the dominant sex after thousands of years of being reprressed!

Unjoke:

Awful. This is something that has always bothered me. I care about whether or not women are given rights or are discriminated against, but when a man says something sexual at all, It's "Offensive" towards women. When women make a sexual remark, its normal.

Double standards are a serious *****.

 

[GraveeKing]

I'll watch the video later.
I think if women want equal rights then leave off men.
I know a husband who had a small glass of vodka with orange juice at home - isn't even effected, get's a lecture from his wife not to get drunk.
The husbands wife - who I know well, goes down the pub all the time and gets drunk on a weekly basis and he just let's her and doesn't complain - doesn't hurt him right?

Similar cases where men hit a girl for just.... well being an idiot - men can do the same and nobody even blinks at the idea of a guy hitting a guy OR a girl hitting a guy. But oh no suddenly a women who's supposed to be 'equal' can't defend herself!
If a guy hits you hit him back or call the police for gods sake.

In my opinion - if someone drives you nuts, and they just deserve a good slap you may ask "Do you believe in equal rights?" If they say they do - then you may go ahead and slap them. It's no sexist - it's just proving you're treating them the same if they'd been a guy - equally. Exactly what they wanted in the first place.

 

[Fwee]

I just can't bring myself to care what some entitled worthless women on TV have to say about crime. Who cares what they say? And why bother reacting? Just go back to not even realizing that the show exists and they'll all be looking for a new job next month.