It's only sexist when Men do it?

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Zarkov

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Mar 26, 2010
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Wolfram01 said:
It's somewhat ironic that he drops some racism about Iran
He mentions a third world country to make a point?! Holy shit, RACIST!

Look, dude, I know you probably don't get around to hearing the news a lot but in Iran (for the most part) women are treated like shit. If you look at from that perspective [and I don't know how or why you'd look at it otherwise), it makes sense in the context it was used.
 

Chelsea O'shea

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May 20, 2010
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Laura Wiebe said:
As a female, I find this incredibly disgusting. I have had very few problems with being female and must agree that the feminist movement has moved into the "FemiNazi" movement. We got our rights, now we should shut up and find some other people to help like orphans or refugees.

However there are physical differences that must be acknowledged and respected, I am not as strong as my guy-friends but have other talents. However that in no way means girls can be strong or guys can't do things women are generally better at. Just realize that it may not be my specific talent.

Society sucks, I gave up on them ages ago, but as in any movement there are lots of radicals, there are Christians blowing up abortion clinics and many of us do not believe that that is any way to deal with things. There are also Canadians, Americans, Brits etc. (take your pick)we do not like and we condemn but they still make the news and that is what outsiders percieve us as.
this,exactly this,thank you Laura.
 

phelan511

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Oct 29, 2010
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I agree with him. Double standards like this just can't be allowed. But yet they are. And he is exactly right, if the roles were reversed there'd be people screaming for their blood.
 
Jun 23, 2008
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Disclaimers:

~ I didn't watch the whole thing. There's only so much I could take.

~ I only skimmed the whole thread, so I may repeat what others have said.

Analysis of the video:

The man has some points:

~ It's embarrassing (but stereotypical of us naked apes) that some of us would laugh at the misfortune of others. Apparently, castration of a man by a woman is funny to the hosts and audience of The Talk. As public figures, they should be more sympathetic to victims of heinous crimes of mutilation. And disturbingly, they openly enjoyed it. And this got past the execs.

~ The reaction to the Russian shopkeeper story is telling. Some find it okay, even funny [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsOkWhenItIsFemaleOnMale], when rape is female on male (or male on male) and it's unfortunate. Indeed, domestic abuse shelters often refuse to accept men even though there's a statistically equal (if not higher) number of male victims of domestic violence than there are women in the US.

~ Indeed, there are many situations factual or fictional which favor women over men. My own pet peeve is the stupid husband, smart wife commercials, and that Ms. Piggy's two brothers in the Muppet version of The Three Pigs were both demonstrably idiots. But that one might be because Ms. Piggy has a contract.

However:

~ The truth of the matter that we still have gender biases, and that men are sometimes discriminated against, is not a reason to disqualify feminism. Indeed, Christians get plenty of flack from non-Christians, but this doesn't lessen the extreme amount of discrimination done in the favor of Christian religions over non-Christian ones. Similarly, Men get many more significant benefits over women in our society than the reverse, and the few incidents in which women prevail don't change that, or the need for a drive towards not only true gender equality, but the end of gender definitions altogether.

~ The same goes for feminist extremism. Islam extremism does not disqualify Islam as a relevant religious path. Nor should the few loud ultra-feminist voices be used to argue against the normalization of gender equality or against feminism in general.[footnote]According to the awsome folks that taught me feminism the goal has to be true equality, or even elimination of gender roles, or feminism isn't taken seriously. Ergo, feminist groups need to apply political pressure wherever gender discrimination is found, whether favoring men or women.[/footnote]

Also:

~ Double standards, while repugnant, remain necessary so long as there are intrinisic discrepancies between select peoples, whether between two races, two genders, or any fringe group and the mainstream. And yes, this creates problems, such as qualified whites losing jobs to less-qualified non-whites, thanks to Affirmative Action, but we've already seen it demonstrated that without such measures, our society just won't integrate. So if you dislike double standards, 1) make a point to not discriminate, or to attribute any character failing with an incidental quality. This takes practice, as we instinctively do so. It's a survival trait. 2) Teach your kids and pressure your friends and family to do the same. The sooner a group is fully integrated into a system, the sooner enforcement policies such as Affirmative Action are ignored, and even repealed.

~ This guy [http://thatfatatheist.com/] is not the voice of reason here. He's the voice of reactionary anger, and he has a legitimate gripe. But he's not going to solve it, and in fact will be dismissed by his positional opponents for his open belligerence about the situation. There's an old cowboy saying The man who draws his gun first is the man who ran out of options.[footnote]It's a Spaghetti Western variant of a Japanese proverb, A man who raises is voice has already lost the argument.[/footnote] He came out of the barn guns ablazin'.

238U.[footnote]In the event that Escapist requires me to view a commercial before getting a code, I will simply not post. Depending on the frequency, this may temper or cease my future participation in the Escapist community. Apologies in advance, if this policy prevents me from replying to you when it is proper to do so.[/footnote]
 

KaizokuouHasu

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May 19, 2011
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I'm with the guy in the video, all the way.
By the way; he had a magnificent beard! Too bad it accompanied the lisp.
 

easternflame

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Nov 2, 2010
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He's right, it's like when women tell you, be a gentleman and open the door for me, that is like if I told her, Be a fucking lady and make me dinner, NONE of those are right of course, not because I'm a man I have to open the door for you, and not because ur a woman you have to make me dinner. But women(in general, calm down folks) kept the things that were convinient to them from the old "Macho" society of the 40's/50's and threw away what they didn't like.
 

maninahat

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TriGGeR_HaPPy said:
I'm not sure why he keeps bringing up Iran the way he does, and I can "take feminism seriously".
But otherwise, yes. Those were pretty much my exact thoughts after both of those stories.
I think you've got it pegged. I don't like how people are blaming "feminism" for why women find dick mutilation funny. Heck, what man doesn't find a man being kicked in the groin funny? Those same men would never laugh at a woman being slapped in the tits, and that mentality has nothing to do with third wave feminism. It is far older than that.

Culturally, we are conditioned to see violence, rape and bawdiness in general as male traits whilst traits such as restraint and vulnerability are characterised as female. So we have trouble accepting the idea that a man can be vulnerable, even when having his cock chopped off, but we can easily see the vulnerability of a lady getting her tits slapped. It is an ancient double standard. One which still persists to this day. Don't blame feminism for it, but expect feminists to acknowledge that double standards occasionally disadvantage men as well as women.
 

Private Custard

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Dec 30, 2007
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Wolfram01 said:
Wow... so apparently you guys are all closet racists?
Limb Amputations

http://ncr-iran.org/en/news/26-regime/8443-iran-barbaric-punishment-of-limb-amputation-continue-

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/93645

http://www.iranhumanrights.org/2010/10/amputations-floggings-rising/

etc etc etc...

Oppression of women

I'll just leave this here in the hope you might go and do some reading on the subject. There's lots of info out there

http://www.uncoverage.net/2011/06/video-oppression-of-women-in-iran/


Iran is a country that seems to have a hell of a lot of people joining together to become what is commonly known as a huge fucking crowd, whenever people are publicly beaten or executed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu-SdgDx_kY



I never said everyone in the region was a woman oppressor or limb amputator. And I also think you really need to open your eyes before falling back on the racism accuations.

Just because you got on your high-horse, and I also recieved a warning for my post, I won't take back what I said. Women are seen as second class citizens and punishments for all are brutal and public.

I can see myself getting banned for this. But hey, fuck it, I hate this 'community' more and more each day.
 

spartan231490

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Jan 14, 2010
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Wolfram01 said:
It's somewhat ironic that he drops some racism about Iran

*Edit: So I've been quoted a dozen times about mostly how it's not racist (and a few who agree it is). Let's just put that into perspective. He says imagine a bunch of guys sitting around talking about how someone chopped of a woman's tits and clit, and then "where would you imagine that happening, Iran maybe?". On the one hand, yes it *could* happen in Iran but it could happen in America too. It's frankly not very different from if he were talking about robberies and asked "Someone robs a bank and kills two people. Who do you think did it, a black guy maybe??" Point is, yeah Iran has some pretty sexist laws and traditions but that doesn't mean they obviously hate women, and therefore it's not racist to say that it seems obvious that the aformentioned mutilation could be laughed about there.

Anyway besides the ridiculousness of having to defend calling his statement racist, I was actually finding it funny, not offensive. Even if it's only very slightly racist, to the smallest degree, it's still pretty ironic that he'd however slightly perpetrate one bad ideal whilst being so stalwart in attacking another.
It was hyperbole. He wasn't suggesting that it would actually happen in Iran. He was just using the country that is most recognized in American culture as being sexist. And even if he was, It's not racist. A) he pointed out a country, not a race, and b) it's no more racist than seeing an news article about a kid going to the MBA after his 1st year of high school and thinking that he's probably black. That's not racist, it's reality. Some stereotypes are true, and there is nothing wrong with admitting that. If anything, denying it is racist.
 

Terminate421

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Jul 21, 2010
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Joke:

This is what happens when we let women get their rights. They want to be the dominant sex after thousands of years of being reprressed!

Unjoke:

Awful. This is something that has always bothered me. I care about whether or not women are given rights or are discriminated against, but when a man says something sexual at all, It's "Offensive" towards women. When women make a sexual remark, its normal.

Double standards are a serious *****.
 

GraveeKing

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Nov 15, 2009
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I'll watch the video later.
I think if women want equal rights then leave off men.
I know a husband who had a small glass of vodka with orange juice at home - isn't even effected, get's a lecture from his wife not to get drunk.
The husbands wife - who I know well, goes down the pub all the time and gets drunk on a weekly basis and he just let's her and doesn't complain - doesn't hurt him right?

Similar cases where men hit a girl for just.... well being an idiot - men can do the same and nobody even blinks at the idea of a guy hitting a guy OR a girl hitting a guy. But oh no suddenly a women who's supposed to be 'equal' can't defend herself!
If a guy hits you hit him back or call the police for gods sake.

In my opinion - if someone drives you nuts, and they just deserve a good slap you may ask "Do you believe in equal rights?" If they say they do - then you may go ahead and slap them. It's no sexist - it's just proving you're treating them the same if they'd been a guy - equally. Exactly what they wanted in the first place.
 

Fwee

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Sep 23, 2009
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I just can't bring myself to care what some entitled worthless women on TV have to say about crime. Who cares what they say? And why bother reacting? Just go back to not even realizing that the show exists and they'll all be looking for a new job next month.
 

Loner Jo Jo

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Jul 22, 2011
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Okay, one, I really don't want anyone holding up the Talk or the View as epitomes of female thought or behavior. It's kind of like holding up the Man Show as the epitome of male achievement.

That being said, I agree with him a lot of ways. It's not fair for men. However, there is one point I'd like to point out: statistics.

The reason the forensics show typically shows males committing homicide is because it's more likely to happen. Women don't kill people as often as men do. It's not sexist; it's just a fact. Also, as for the abuse defense, juries are far more likely to sympathize with a woman who has been abused. It puts a person in a state of mind that could predisposition them to think they have no other choice. That and a man is far more likely to commit domestic violence against a woman than the other way around. Yes, sometimes women will claim this in court just to try to get off, but that's beside the point.

However, I will admit, if a man tried to pull the same defense, a jury either won't believe him or find him weak to begin with. He wouldn't get away with it, probably. That's a double standard and sexist. It's a hold over that will hopefully disappear soon enough.
 

ZiggyE

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Nov 13, 2010
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This guy is fucking right.

I cannot stand people who stand up for women's rights. I cannot stand people who stand up for racial rights or any other 'minority' rights. Because half the time even though they claim they want 'equality', what they want is special privileges for them. What ever happened to just plain, "human rights", huh?
 
Apr 24, 2008
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If you actually examine why double standards exist, you understand why.

Being white and male is hugely advantageous, in ways that a white male(like myself)is never likely to fully understand. If the trade-off is that other people get to make themselves look bad by being insensitive and running their mouth, I still feel like I got the better end of the deal.

History has been kind to people like me. You honestly cannot even hurt my feelings, and that's probably something that I take for granted sometimes, when I'm trying to understand other peoples reactions to certain things.

Nice to see Sara Gilbert adding some balance and actual thought to proceedings though.
 

funguy2121

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Oct 20, 2009
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Sizzle Montyjing said:
My reactions, in order:

When he says the word "****" he doesn't sound like David Cross calling Nicole Richie and Paris Hilton "rich giggling cunts." He sounds like a sexually frustrated misogynist.

So, you haven't seen the show, but you're going to judge it based on a clip you saw on the internet, quite possibly out of context?

--asshole starts talking about a man being separated from his penis--

Let me guess. He's about to get pissed that some women laughed at this joke. Is he comfortable holding company with Rush Limbaugh? When Lorena Bobbit cut off her husband's penis and later alleged that he had raped her, about 17 years ago, jokes abounded. Jokes were still being made on Saturday Night Live 2 years later. And it was still funny. But Rush wasn't laughing at all. He couldn't stop talking about how if John Wayne Bobbit had cut off one of Lorena's breasts it wouldn't be funny. And he's absolutely right. That's not funny. I also don't think it would be (terribly) funny if John Wayne Bobbit weren't a rapist.

I'm not sure if he plead for lesser charges, but Bobbit was eventually released from prison and went straight into porn after taking a bunch of dick wonder drugs. His, erm, co-stars said that he needed to down a fistful of pills to get it up, and that he could only function for a few minutes, and that he was "weird and creepy" and would try to force starlets into the men's room at awards shows and show them his rather unimpressive cock. Several years later, he was convicted of raping another woman. Which (and remember, I'm a dude) makes me rather wish that his cock had been put in a garbage disposal.

Sharon Osbourne is one of the least deserving celebrities in the world. At least her husband co-wrote and performed "War Pigs."

Yup, now he's freaking out just like Rush Limbaugh.

Someone tell Youtubers out there that a rant isn't as funny when an uneducated douche does it as when Patton Oswalt does it.

...and I'm turning this shit off.

No one let this caveman know that Nancy Grace exists. Then he'd really lose his shit. Actually, why don't we force the two of them to live on a desert island together? Make a reality show out of that. And they only get to eat when they fuck. Next season: Gilbert Godfried and Kathy Griffin.

He is right about one thing. It's a double standard. All of those entitled, bitchy women out there who get the shit beat out of them by their men, sold into sexual slavery, forced to work in sweatshops, get coercive abortions, get blamed for their own rape and sent to prison for life when they can't present a plurality of witnesses to their sexual assault, seem to get a bit of a rise out of hearing about one dumbass losing his cock. And that just is not right!

I can't stomach any more. Someone else is going to have to tell me if this is one of those misogynistic turds who actually believes we have it worse than women.
 

Broady Brio

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Jun 28, 2009
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Sadly, in some places, people thinks it's funny for a men's penis to be chopped off. It digusts me these "Feminists."

 

Farson89

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Apr 16, 2009
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I think the Amazing Atheist is a pretty terrible person but he makes a good point here. That being said he could've done it in a more creative way than saying 'fuck' over and over again.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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Dags90 said:
My thoughts:
1.) I'm not watching a 6 minute video to participate in an thread, OP.
2.) No, it's not.
3.) Anyone can call them self a feminist, so if you get distracted by crazy people who call themselves feminists, you might as well go claiming Christians are the WBC or Muslims are all radicals to be consistent. Or you can use your brain to discriminate between "radical" feminists and "mainstream" feminist.
4.)It's not that feminists are hypocrites, it's that they're usually people. People are hypocritical and inconsistent.
5.) We've had a thread on this subject already.
This. All of this.

I really hate when people quote crazies or hold up the most insane people as examples of feminism.

That's like, oh, I dunno, pointing at a murder who happened to play a video game and claiming that video games turn people into killers.

inb4: Oh, I see what I did there!
 

manythings

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TriGGeR_HaPPy said:
I'm not sure why he keeps bringing up Iran the way he does, and I can "take feminism seriously".
But otherwise, yes. Those were pretty much my exact thoughts after both of those stories.
Because feminism is often derangedly inconsistent with the actually goals of the first women who wanted equality (Equalitarians) and is now principally about putting women first.