It's only sexist when Men do it?

[Thunderhorse31]

If you actually examine why double standards exist, you understand why.

Being white and male is hugely advantageous, in ways that a white male(like myself)is never likely to fully understand. If the trade-off is that other people get to make themselves look bad by being insensitive and running their mouth, I still feel like I got the better end of the deal.

History has been kind to people like me. You honestly cannot even hurt my feelings, and that's probably something that I take for granted sometimes, when I'm trying to understand other peoples reactions to certain things.

Nice to see Sara Gilbert adding some balance and actual thought to proceedings though.

Came in here to basically say this, although in a far less serious way.

It's apparently okay to make fun of the perceived dominating/majority group, since as we have already established, it is impossible to offend us. Like AA said, we're just expected to "suck it up."

It's only racist if white people do it.
It's only sexist if men do it.
It's only bigoted if straight people do it.

And so on, and so forth. It may not be equal, but at least I get paid more to do the same job.

 

[Neonit]

yeah, the thing is.... you dont see discrimination of others. you really dont. i for example, didnt realized how bad racism is, until i moved to a different country. i though "it cant be THAT bad...." until you see things in perspective..... because all those LITTLE things tend to stack up.

i guess that women are discriminated. i dont see it. im a man. i think its blown out of proportion. but i know, that it could be caused by the fact that i dont see it in right perspective. double standards are at least trying to even it up. it doesnt work as it should (because there should be no discrimination in first place but you know.....)

THEN AGAIN i dont believe that this kind of behavior should be accepted. that show was disgusting. at least the part i saw. (i kinda have respect for the woman pointing out double standards btw) i think there should be consequences.

double standards should NOT be used in court. it is the law. it doesnt care if youre white or black, so it shouldnt care about whenever you have a penis, a vagina, or anything in between

so in short, yes there are double standards, yes they should disappear together with discrimination, no it wont happen in our lifetime. and that guy needs to calm down, because he has a good point, but cant really be taken seriously.


ps it is not a problem with feminism. its the problem with human beings. and the fact that some people want attention. shouting is an easy way to get some.... but yeah "human rights movement" seems better.....

pps i know a lot of women who find feminists stupid attention who.... well, you know the rest. so that doest say something.....

 

[Bonecrusher]

He makes some decent points. If men did laugh at a woman being mutilated, there would be RIOTS.

These fucking idiots laugh at a guy having his penis chopped off? Apparently that's ok.

It's because feminist movements, while some claim to be pro-equality, are only really pro-equality for women.

I don't even think some of this is over the top. I think he's got valid points throughout the video.

Until now I hadn't actually seen any of the clip of the women talking about it, but Sharon Osbourne saying that it'd be different if a man chopped a woman's breasts off is horrible. I had no respect for her before and now I just fucking hate her.

I hate feminists and feminism.
They argue that they defend the rights and equality of women,
in fact they are just trying to decrease the rights and equality of men.

I really support the equality of both gender,
however feminists are no more different than conservationist macho or redneck men.

 

[Craorach]

I'm definitely not a big fan of the person in that video, but the whole idea of that TV show makes me shudder.

It isn't new with shows like that either, they are selling to bored, middle aged, housewives with a chip on their shoulder. These shows consistently belittle and find humour in the suffering of men, whatever the situation.

The maker of that video, however badly, does raise an important point however. Abuse by men is almost always considered a terrible thing, abuse against men is often laughed at or ignored.

Domestic violence and sexual abuse, especially, suffer from this. Although it is improving lately, we still live in a world where a man who beats his wife is a monster, and little to no proof is needed.. while a woman can beat her husband regularly and have it dismissed. If a man stares at a woman, even one in skimpy clothing, he can be fired or arrested.. where as a woman can grope and outright molest a man and complaints not be taken seriously.

This even goes for extremes such a teachers having sex with students... several high profile cases recently involved female teachers and male students, but popular perception is still that a male teacher is gutted and has his career ruined just from the accusation, where as if it's the other way around people cry "she's hot, bet the lad loved it!".

There was a case, a few years ago, while I was growing up and the idea of date rape and spiking drinks had only just really hit.. a young woman was pursuing an older, married, man that she worked with... she had a mild similarity to his wife.. during an office party she deliberately mimicked his wife's clothing and mannerisms, spiked his drinks with both more potent alcohol and drugs, responded to his wife's name and seduced him. In a climate where a young man had recently been arrested for rape because his victim was too drunk to stand, this was laughed off, the man fired and his wife filed for divorce, and got it. I believe he even lost regular access to his children. He'd never been unfaithful before that.

This isn't a new thing, and I suppose it's slowly getting better, but this has to do with more than feminism, and silly TV shows. It has to do with negative gender stereotypes and what both males, and females, expect of themselves and others.

 

[Radoh]

My thoughts:
1.) I'm not watching a 6 minute video to participate in an thread, OP.
2.) No, it's not.
3.) Anyone can call them self a feminist, so if you get distracted by crazy people who call themselves feminists, you might as well go claiming Christians are the WBC or Muslims are all radicals to be consistent. Or you can use your brain to discriminate between "radical" feminists and "mainstream" feminist.
4.)It's not that feminists are hypocrites, it's that they're usually people. People are hypocritical and inconsistent.
5.) We've had a thread on this subject already.

This. All of this.

I really hate when people quote crazies or hold up the most insane people as examples of feminism.

That's like, oh, I dunno, pointing at a murder who happened to play a video game and claiming that video games turn people into killers.

inb4: Oh, I see what I did there!

Oh, I see what you did... never mind.

Seriously though, as much as I love watching angry, hateful people yelling nonsense about angry, hateful people, I found this to be... lacking.
Most of the stuff I saw from this guy is just a bunch of tripe, and it makes me sad that people follow behind him using him as a rallying cry for there obscenities.

Also, WAY too much swearing, you can make a point without swearing at all you know.

 

[hagar2]

i cant agree to this more. i have seen women get away with things men would never get away with. im not sexist but women get to much slack and im sure you know what i mean.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

*Edit: So I've been quoted a dozen times about mostly how it's not racist (and a few who agree it is). Let's just put that into perspective. He says imagine a bunch of guys sitting around talking about how someone chopped of a woman's tits and clit, and then "where would you imagine that happening, Iran maybe?". On the one hand, yes it *could* happen in Iran but it could happen in America too.

Iran is currently being governed by a madman. It routinely punishes arbitrary "crimes" with methods of execution that are deliberately cruel and unusual. In America, death by hanging is a rare occurrence, and it's done in such a way that the condemned simply has their neck snapped. In Iran, death by hanging is doled out for the "crime" of homosexuality, and it's carried out by hoisting them via crane and asphyxiating them to death.

It's frankly not very different from if he were talking about robberies and asked "Someone robs a bank and kills two people. Who do you think did it, a black guy maybe??" Point is, yeah Iran has some pretty sexist laws and traditions but that doesn't mean they obviously hate women, and therefore it's not racist to say that it seems obvious that the aformentioned mutilation could be laughed about there.

Ever heard of "the cutting of the rose"? You might also find it filed under "female circumcision." Both of those titles make it sound a lot more morally/socially acceptable than it is in practice. It's inevitably only used as a means of putting women in an even more subservient role in society.

Now, think long and hard, where do you think it's more practiced: America, or the Persian Gulf?

 

[ultimateownage]

it's still pretty ironic that he'd however slightly perpetrate one bad ideal whilst being so stalwart in attacking another.

You're missing his point completely. He thinks it's stupid for there to be a double standard where one group can make fun of a second, but that second one cannot. They should either both be able to or neither be able to.
Iran can make fun of us, too. There is no double standard there. There is no inequality in that regard between us and Iran.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

You know what's getting more annoying than feminazi's? Men who think they are hard done by. Really guys? Hundreds of years of supremacy and you are moaning if some vacuous tarts on a crappy talk show laugh at you.

Come on.

Everyone has different opinions on things why do the rest of women have to be grouped in with these brainless idiots. It's like saying all men are douchebags because of Jersey Shore. Assault and mutilation is repugnant, end of story.

 

[ZiggyE]

Really guys? Hundreds of years of supremacy and you are moaning if some vacuous tarts on a crappy talk show laugh at you.

Funny, I never experienced a hundreds of years of supremacy. I was born in a time when it was okay for women to laugh when men get seriously assaulted. So excuse me for being a little peeved by double standards and inequality.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Really guys? Hundreds of years of supremacy and you are moaning if some vacuous tarts on a crappy talk show laugh at you.

Funny, I never experienced a hundreds of years of supremacy. I was born in a time when it was okay for women to laugh when men get seriously assaulted. So excuse me for being a little peeved by double standards and inequality.

Yeah but its only stupid people who laugh at it. If women weren't arrested for attacking men then you may have a point. Normal society thinks it is wrong. I thought it was a pretty stupid and insensitive thing to say.

The fact that this is on youtube and people took offence to it means that this isn't the prevalent view of society. It's just something really offensive that was said on a crap talk show.

 

[Sizzle Montyjing]

Really guys? Hundreds of years of supremacy and you are moaning if some vacuous tarts on a crappy talk show laugh at you.

Funny, I never experienced a hundreds of years of supremacy. I was born in a time when it was okay for women to laugh when men get seriously assaulted. So excuse me for being a little peeved by double standards and inequality.

Yeah, it's pretty annoying when people do stuff like that.
Like when people say 'oh, but you enslaved my kind'
I'm like, 'well that is incredibly tragic, but i didn't do it. I was born in 1994, blame my ancestors but don't blame me!
BTW i just want to make sure that it is horrible all the stuff that my gender and particular race have done over the years, me being white, male and british.
I'm just saying don't blame me.

 

[Kuroneko97]

Strangely, I was having a thought about this earlier today.

I don't remember all of my thoughts, but I do remember that this is why I like to watch Deadly Women. I'd love to go into a feminist meeting and show an episode, and see how they can blame this on the man. In one episode, two little ol' ladies got homeless people to sign wills to them, and then they would hit-and-run- them. Another woman would poison her victims, bury them in her backyard, and take their cash. Obviously, they went to jail.

Get mad at me for this, but I don't think there should be a law against hitting women. Yes, I know women are generally weaker than men, but then why is there no law about THEM hitting men? I know it's harder for them to do so, but what about those women who rape men? What, do they say THEY were the ones raped? Why do women always get the children in a divorce? That makes me feel bad, because if I got married, and then got divorced when I have children, it wouldn't be fair if my ex-husband didn't even have a fighting chance. This is a battle, God damn it!

Yes, men are terrible, sexist, abusive, heartless, violent, greedy, illogical bastards. But so are women.

I'm going to touch on cheating now. A lot, and I mean A LOT of men cheat on their girlfriends and wives. I see it on the new all the time. Anthony Weiner, with his terribly ironic name, sexted to a woman and got done in by his wiener. Arnold Whatever-his-last-name-is had a ten year old son. Sweet Jesus. I've never heard any cases of wives cheating on television, though. I can't remember ever hearing so. My father's cheated on my mother before, and she got revenge by cheating on him back. Yet, why is it so much more terrible when a man does it? Aren't we creatures who are made to mate? And with all this advertising for sex, why are we so surprised? I see at least five Adam & Eve commercials every day.

But I agree with this man: "This is why I can't take feminists seriously." Frankly, I'm glad that if I get a job, I'm making ANY money. I doubt J. K. Rowling was limited by the fact she was a woman; according to Wikipedia, she's the 12th richest woman as of 2008. I think more women should be glad that we can actually WORK. a hundred years from now, we had to be in the kitchen, with three babies sucking at our tits. Today, a man can be in the kitchen sometimes. We have a decent life these days. There aren't that many extremely sexist men, and let's face it; we women make sexist jokes too, and we generalize men, and we're attracted only by their bodies.

All of us are a little sexist inside. Although that's not a terrible thing, we shouldn't let it get out of hand. And please, for the love of God, someone take that fucking Sharon Osbourne off of television. She's making it look like Lorena Bobbitt was a hero.

 

[likalaruku]

Wow, it's TJ. Wasn't expecting that.

How's the poor guy supposed to pee?

America seems to have issues accepting that women can rape men. The stigma is that if a man reports being raped by a woman it means he must be weak because he couldn't overpower her & gay because he didn't enjoy being with a woman & his friends will never let him live it down.

 

[orangeban]

The thing with this dude and people like him that makes me sad, is that he sees this sexism, he objects to this sexism, but then he blames the feminists. If only we could unite and show him, don't attack the feminists, those who want to help (and we're talking about feminists who want equality with men here, not those crazy "women are the best" ones.) your cause, but instead we should do a joint attack upon the sexists who make these kinds of comments! For united we shall stand and crush those in our way for the glory of Communis... erm, I mean Equality!

 

[Alssadar]

So my solution? Get rid of all of those groups that support women's rights, men's rights, minority rights, and gay rights. And in their place, establish a group for HUMAN rights. Everybody has problems. Everybody gets looked down on sometimes for what they are. And to treat them separately is only treating the symptoms, not the cause. And the cause is closed-mindedness. We need ONE authority on equality, because in the end we want equality to be ONE thing across the board.

This I could get behind. A group dedicated to the protection of all people's rights? Count me in as a charter member

Charter me as well, my good human!

 

[orangeban]

So my solution? Get rid of all of those groups that support women's rights, men's rights, minority rights, and gay rights. And in their place, establish a group for HUMAN rights. Everybody has problems. Everybody gets looked down on sometimes for what they are. And to treat them separately is only treating the symptoms, not the cause. And the cause is closed-mindedness. We need ONE authority on equality, because in the end we want equality to be ONE thing across the board.

This I could get behind. A group dedicated to the protection of all people's rights? Count me in as a charter member

But that wouldn't work, we have all those different groups because people don't agree with each other. Let's say we put the plan into action, make one big human rights group. Then some people in society go, well I don't support *all* the things that group supports, but I do support woman's rights, so I'll set up a seperate group dedicated to that! There, and everything is back to the way it is. But also, having those seperate groups isn't bad, in fact it's much more helpful than just having all human rights groups (which do exist, and I support them as much as the others, just saying we need a combination) because they can focus on seperate areas. Also, a single group for all rights makes it easier for politicians to mess you about. Let's say this group protests about rights outside the government building. The politicians see that you want A) gay rights and B) black rights during this particular protest. The government then says, fine, lets compromise and give black people more rights, but we stay on the gay rights. There, the government then seems reasonable in the eyes of the public, as they compromised. Either the human rights group gives in to the governments compromise (which loses the respect of their members) or stays firm (which makes them seem unreasonable in the eyes of the general punter). It's a lose lose situation.

Multiple groups however can push the government on *one* issue, which forces the government to tackle that *one* issue.

 

[orangeban]

Get mad at me for this, but I don't think there should be a law against hitting women. Yes, I know women are generally weaker than men, but then why is there no law about THEM hitting men? I know it's it harder for them to do so, but what about those women who rape men? What, do they say THEY were the ones raped?

But at least Britain and the USA and I presume most other developed countries don't have laws saying you can't hit women but can hit men. Instead they have laws against assualt, which applies to all genders. Same for rape.

 

[miketehmage]

It's somewhat ironic that he drops some racism about Iran

*Edit2: Well anyway... people really love to argue and nit pick over silly things on these forums...

I think it's unfair to call it racism, since it's not at all racist, it's true. Women are treated like shit in those countries, more like property than people.

In reply to the OP: I agree with every point he made fully, I think yes some of it was over the top but it's because it's an internet video and he wants views. I think if he'd have gotten his points across without swearing his argument would have been stronger though, as he would have seemed more intelligent.

 

[orangeban]

He makes some decent points. If men did laugh at a woman being mutilated, there would be RIOTS.

These fucking idiots laugh at a guy having his penis chopped off? Apparently that's ok.

It's because feminist movements, while some claim to be pro-equality, are only really pro-equality for women.

I don't even think some of this is over the top. I think he's got valid points throughout the video.

Until now I hadn't actually seen any of the clip of the women talking about it, but Sharon Osbourne saying that it'd be different if a man chopped a woman's breasts off is horrible. I had no respect for her before and now I just fucking hate her.

I hate feminists and feminism.
They argue that they defend the rights and equality of women,
in fact they are just trying to decrease the rights and equality of men.

I really support the equality of both gender,
however feminists are no more different than conservationist macho or redneck men.

Good grief, you really should of checked your posts (both of the people I quoted) because you have made a rather hilarious blunder.

Think about it, you both say feminists are pro-equality, but only for women. Think about that statement real hard... harder... see it yet?

Here, I'll lay it out. The feminits want woman have equality, true. But to have equality, you have to be equal to something, in this case men. So feminists want women to be equal to men (well, most of them) which is the same as saying, feminists want men to be equal to women.

Oh, and by the way, I am a feminist, I am a man. For this to be compatiable either I want my gender to be subservient to women (false), I want to be a woman (false) or feminism is about equality between genders, sane feminism at least (true).