It's only sexist when Men do it?

[urahara75]

Similar to Uriel-238's sentiments conveyed [a href="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.302777-Its-only-sexist-when-Men-do-it?page=3"]previously[/a], I believe that the one of the only solutions that will begin to rectify US, or even whole western-world, gender relations is to truthfully implement the same social protections females receive for men.

Nice to see Sara Gilbert adding some balance and actual thought to proceedings though.

Note the irritating look of condescending faux-interest and consideration on Julie Chen's face; she made me wanna clock her in the schnoz so bad...

 

[FernandoV]

That fat ***** is so annoying. But he does make a good point, I'd be more open to listening to him though if he didn't have to scream about anything like some gluttonous screaming mound of hate.

 

[Agayek]

3.) Anyone can call them self a feminist, so if you get distracted by crazy people who call themselves feminists, you might as well go claiming Christians are the WBC or Muslims are all radicals to be consistent. Or you can use your brain to discriminate between "radical" feminists and "mainstream" feminist.

To be fair, the WBC and Islamic terrorists are the logical outcome when you take the attitudes and teachings of their respective religions to their ultimate conclusion. Not everyone of those religions is that particular brand of crazy, but the behavior and logic inspired by their beliefs does lead to similar outcomes if followed all the way.

 

[FernandoV]

3.) Anyone can call them self a feminist, so if you get distracted by crazy people who call themselves feminists, you might as well go claiming Christians are the WBC or Muslims are all radicals to be consistent. Or you can use your brain to discriminate between "radical" feminists and "mainstream" feminist.

To be fair, the WBC and Islamic terrorists are the logical outcome when you take the attitudes and teachings of their respective religions to their ultimate conclusion. Not everyone of those religions is that particular brand of crazy, but the behavior and logic inspired by their beliefs does lead to similar outcomes if followed all the way.

To be fair, you take people for what they are not for your convoluted interpretation of what they are based on the radical extreme of their beliefs.

 

[Agayek]

To be fair, you take people for what they are not for your convoluted interpretation of what they are based on the radical extreme of their beliefs.

Not really. If you examine the core teachings of the respective religions, you find a staggering amount of xenophobia and intolerance. Nowadays, a lot of it is coached in much nicer sounding language, but the root values of both are xenophobia, willful ignorance, and an intolerance for alternate ways of thought.

It's nowhere near as bad as it was even 50 years ago, but it is most certainly there. Our cultural zeitgeist is counteracting a lot of the more negative concepts, which is quite good, but it hasn't eradicated it yet.

 

[Zantos]

Directly related: There are a lot of double standards when it comes to sexism. Someone once explained to me that because women were oppressed by men they have the right to take some higher ground now. He had it explained to him by some feminists (which was sexist in itself because he was only doing this whole oppression of women thing to try and get in her pants). I thought it was some shit, I've never oppressed anyone before and don't think anyone has the right to do it to me just because I'm genetically similar to someone else that did it.

Less related: There's something actually related this topic that's been pissing me off. Some countries have started passing laws that a certain percentage of business executives have to be women. I think Norway started it with 40%, with a lot of European countries planning to follow suite (Italy already seems to have it covered). This is like double sexism, beating both genders down. If only that made it not sexist, but sadly two wrongs don't make a right. If a man is more qualified for the position and has more experience he can still get turned down for the job because they need to take on a woman to fill some sort of quota. Then on the flipside it's suggesting that women can't get top jobs on their own and need this in place to help them. Now what a modern and progressive employer does is take a CV with no gender, race, age, etc. Not even a first name, just initial, then judges it on the qualifications and personal statement.

Sexism is one of those things I get really annoyed about. Firstly because it's stupid. Secondly, because I once went out with one of these empowerment of women OTT femenists. Thirdly because it's really fucking stupid.

My my, that turned into quite a rant.

 

[MzRie]

I'm going to say it right now, white men are probably one of the most oppressed people.
...
Look, I get it, white males were EXTREMELY racist, and sexist, from when women existed, and from when we discovered black people, to around...After the sixties. Then, the majority of us started settling down, and since then, we've been better. We should stop being punished for something we did CENTURIES ago.

Yeah, I know. I totally agree. White males have become the most oppressed group. I mean, sure, we make more money on average than every other ethnic group in the country, make more money than women in comparable positions, are rewarded by tax policies that favor our greater ability to invest over people who only survive off of their total income, get lighter prison sentences, are less likely to be investigated and arrested by police, are more likely to be interviewed for employment and hired, are not discriminated against when attempting to buy a house, have higher average home equity, lower average interest on mortgage, don't suffer de facto educational segregation, have normalized characteristics associated with our gender and race, hold over 70% of the positions in Congress, possess the most power in the largest religious group in the world...man, I gotta stop now. All this white male oppression is depressing me.

 

[FernandoV]

To be fair, you take people for what they are not for your convoluted interpretation of what they are based on the radical extreme of their beliefs.

Not really. If you examine the core teachings of the respective religions, you find a staggering amount of xenophobia and intolerance. Nowadays, a lot of it is coached in much nicer sounding language, but the root values of both are xenophobia, willful ignorance, and an intolerance for alternate ways of thought.

It's nowhere near as bad as it was even 50 years ago, but it is most certainly there. Our cultural zeitgeist is counteracting a lot of the more negative concepts, which is quite good, but it hasn't eradicated it yet.

But we all know Christians, Muslims, etc who don't hate everyone who disagree with their religion. Writing them all off makes you just as much of a bigot as you claim they are. It's just about judging people individually as opposed to generalizing them.

 

[RamirezDoEverything]

You go girl.

I hate this, the double standards are ridiculous in this nation.

 

[Agayek]

But we all know Christians, Muslims, etc who don't hate everyone who disagree with their religion. Writing them all off makes you just as much of a bigot as you claim they are. It's just about judging people individually as opposed to generalizing them.

I never said anyone was a bigot.

Nor did I say I wasn't.

All I said was that the aforementioned systems of belief encourage behavior and convictions corresponding with what our culture sees as foolish and/or crazy. It's not really fair to insult and ridicule someone for taking commonly held values and beliefs to their logical conclusion while holding the original values and beliefs as blameless.

 

[FernandoV]

But we all know Christians, Muslims, etc who don't hate everyone who disagree with their religion. Writing them all off makes you just as much of a bigot as you claim they are. It's just about judging people individually as opposed to generalizing them.

I never said anyone was a bigot.

Nor did I say I wasn't.

All I said was that the aforementioned systems of belief encourage behavior and convictions corresponding with what our culture sees as foolish and/or crazy. It's not really fair to insult and ridicule someone for taking commonly held values and beliefs to their logical conclusion while holding the original values and beliefs as blameless.

The problem with that thinking is that any belief (secular or otherwise) can be taken to a harmful extreme.

 

[Agayek]

The problem with that thinking is that any belief (secular or otherwise) can be taken to a harmful extreme.

Then such a belief should be examined for harmful qualities, and those should be excised. It's not terribly complicated. Question your beliefs and continue to change them, it's the only way to improve them.

 

[FernandoV]

The problem with that thinking is that any belief (secular or otherwise) can be taken to a harmful extreme.

Then such a belief should be examined for harmful qualities, and those should be excised. It's not terribly complicated. Question your beliefs and continue to change them, it's the only way to improve them.

That's not what we're talking about. "To be fair, the WBC and Islamic terrorists are the logical outcome when you take the attitudes and teachings of their respective religions to their ultimate conclusion. Not everyone of those religions is that particular brand of crazy, but the behavior and logic inspired by their beliefs does lead to similar outcomes if followed all the way."

That comment just led me to believe you think a non-radical Christian is just as bad as a radical one based on casual correlations.

 

[Seives-Sliver]

I am honestly tired of the double standard, being in a family of all girls, with me being the only boy has made me see their side of the argument, but it's just like every other issue, racism, the poverty lines, and all that, it gets worse and worse, eventually things will boil over and they will need to be resolved. I really just hate people that can't just get along and there is always someone that thinks they are justifiably better than anyone else because of their gender, or that someone is inferior, which is the same thing really. Anyways, that is my two cents, good day!

 

[Hatter]

/snippity
It's because feminist movements, while some claim to be pro-equality, are only really pro-equality for women.
/snipsnip

Firm supporters of the one commandment.

 

[Hatter]

Double post, sorry.

 

[Altorin]

Lorena Bobet was a funny story, because in the end, the guy was better then ever for having his penis removed. We had some idea of the crimes Mr Bobet commited and they seemed pretty heinous. He was an abusive cock, pardon the pun. this is different. This woman turned her husband's penis into hamburger, allegedly just because he wanted to leave her? It's NOT the same thing as Bobet.

 

[Merkavar]

You know what's getting more annoying than feminazi's? Men who think they are hard done by. Really guys? Hundreds of years of supremacy and you are moaning if some vacuous tarts on a crappy talk show laugh at you.

well since im only 24 i havent had these 100s of years of supremecy you talk of. so does that mean i can be offended by women laughing at men being abused. i would be offended by them laughing at a women being abused too.

but im sure that if this show was laughing about abuse to women there would have been a much bigger uproar.

can i also not be offended by racism cause white people owned slaves for a while?

the past is the past and shouldnt come into the equation with sexism or racism in the present day.

 

[an874]

It's somewhat ironic that he drops some racism about Iran

*Edit2: Well anyway... people really love to argue and nit pick over silly things on these forums...

It's not racism, it's a fact that in countries in the Middle East that are dominated by Islam, oppression and outright abuse of women is seen as okay by a society that takes its religion far too seriously. (To be clear, as an atheist, I think taking any religion seriously, even in the slightest degree, is silly on principle, however I'm just making the point that it's especially bad in places like Iran and Saudi Arabia.)

OT: Of course what Sharon Osbourne said was wrong, but the show comes on at 2 pm Eastern Standard Time (US). It has a mostly female studio and viewing audience largely made of, let's be honest, bored and frustrated housewives. You can't blame them for pandering to the relatively small audience they have, especially given reviews of the show. The only reason anyone would watch it is that it comes on right before Dr. Phil (a surprisingly interesting show).

 

[Avistew]

My mother is abusive towards me, she got full custody of me because she lied to the court and told them that my father is abusive. So because of the fact that my father only broke a camera from frustration because he was being abused by my mother too, he's had to go to domestic violence groups, get fired from Microsoft, and lose me to the abusive mother I live with. Despite the evidence against my mother and the falsified evidence against my dad, the court goes in her favor and my dad who was innocent is treated like a scum bag. I hate the police. I hate how they don't give a fuck if a man gets abused by a woman!

How old are you? Were you not given a chance to give your opinion at court? Can you go to the police, say you don't want to be with your mom because she's abusive and you want to be with your dad?

I had a friend who was in a similar situation (except he was the father, not the kid) and once his kids turned 13 they were able to ask to stay with him instead. Check in your area how old you have to be for that but you're definitely allowed to give your opinion, and you can report your mom if you want her to be punished for her crimes.