It's only sexist when Men do it?

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Moonlight Butterfly

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Mar 16, 2011
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Merkavar said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
You know what's getting more annoying than feminazi's? Men who think they are hard done by. Really guys? Hundreds of years of supremacy and you are moaning if some vacuous tarts on a crappy talk show laugh at you.
well since im only 24 i havent had these 100s of years of supremecy you talk of. so does that mean i can be offended by women laughing at men being abused. i would be offended by them laughing at a women being abused too.

but im sure that if this show was laughing about abuse to women there would have been a much bigger uproar.

can i also not be offended by racism cause white people owned slaves for a while?

the past is the past and shouldnt come into the equation with sexism or racism in the present day.
Try reading my whole post before you cherry pick.

This is the opinion of some random celebrities on a crap talk show. If women weren't arrested for assaulting men you might have a point. The very fact that this was picked up on as offensive means that it isn't the prevalent view of society. Assault and mutilation is wrong that is why the woman who did it is going to prison.

robotv56 said:
My mother is abusive towards me, she got full custody of me because she lied to the court and told them that my father is abusive. So because of the fact that my father only broke a camera from frustration because he was being abused by my mother too, he's had to go to domestic violence groups, get fired from Microsoft, and lose me to the abusive mother I live with. Despite the evidence against my mother and the falsified evidence against my dad, the court goes in her favor and my dad who was innocent is treated like a scum bag. I hate the police. I hate how they don't give a fuck if a man gets abused by a woman!
Well the court can only go by the information that is given if your mum lied then she has commited a crime.
I can only suggest you tell the police about the abuse and the actions of your mother. Nobody is going to know if you don't say anything.
A similar thing happened in court with my dad and sister but I was too frightened to speak up and he threatened me. So I'm sorry if my response comes across as cold.
 

Merkavar

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xXxJessicaxXx said:
well i did read your post. re-read it then. not seeing your point about cherry picking. the 2nd part was irrelevant to my point and i cant see how it affects or adds to the part i quoted.

you were saying that we (men) should suck it up or something cause we were supreme rulers for a while.

all im saying is that this should not have an impact on what is offensive today. the past shouldnt impact on what people are allowed to moan about.
 

Sizzle Montyjing

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Apr 5, 2011
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While Women have been opressed for millenia, i don't feel it's fair to take it out on the generation that haven't done anything.
Lets have a fake scenario here, my father kills someone's mother, is it then alright for the mothers son to get revenge by taking it out on me?

I've had quite a lot of women hating me for simply being male, i haven't done anything and i support free rights.
But its always what the older generations have done for me to get punished.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Mar 16, 2011
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Merkavar said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
well i did read your post. re-read it then. not seeing your point about cherry picking. the 2nd part was irrelevant to my point and i cant see how it affects or adds to the part i quoted.

you were saying that we (men) should suck it up or something cause we were supreme rulers for a while.

all im saying is that this should not have an impact on what is offensive today. the past shouldnt impact on what people are allowed to moan about.
The second part basically explained my point but okay.

The fact is that people tend to find things less offensive becuase it doesn't have the weight of history behind it.

That's why a lot of people take racism against white people less seriously, its still not right but it doesn't have the same connotations.

Basically the view of these women doesn't match society so saying that there is a hypocrisy in the subject of equal rights is kind of ludicrous. Their opinion doesn't influence the situation of the assault whatsoever.

If they were high court judges the situation would be a lot more alarming.

As it is the fact that it is offensive has been recognised and the clip posted on youtube so surely that in itself makes the point of 'women are getting away with it' moot.
 

SL33TBL1ND

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It is only sexist when men do it. It's stupid yeah, but that's what's happened to society.
 

Gigano

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Oct 15, 2009
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Well, different people find different things amusing.

Some men and women might find castration of men to be a hilarious subject to chuckle and joke around about, and I don't really see any problem with that; at least as long as they also mind chuckling of and joking around about similar subjects like rape or domestic violence against women too.

Nothing wrong with having a raunchy and dark sense of humour, so long as it applies to all groups in the relevant situations. But when it doesn't, then it's simply an expression that one think of the target group being worth less than others, and hence an expression of bigotry and discrimination; Hard to tell the difference when you don't know the person and their general sense of humour.
 

loodmoney

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Okay, watching two and a half minutes of that guy has used up my patience--I haven't finished the video or read much of this thread--so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but a few points come to mind:

- He uses the phrase "mindless chattering cunts" before he uses the word "women". In fact, he uses "****" as a synonym for "women" several times. Welcome to being part of the problem, douchebag.

- His argument that people deem sexism acceptable when it is against men is based on the fact that if the sexes were switched, then there would be an outrage if the show was aired in the U.S. of A. Apparently the prevalence of sexism against women on television and elsewhere is not evidence that people deem sexism against women acceptable.

- He is a movement atheist, which would explain a lot of his ignorance, e.g. basing his case on reality television, racism against those evil Middle Eastern countries.
 

Tdc2182

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Not a big fan of his.

While he tends to have some viewpoints that I agree with, it's just the way he presents them and why exactly he actually has the viewpoints are very much retarded.

The "I Hate Cops" video of his was one of the most mindnumbing idiotic bullshit rants I have ever heard. (Even this one was a little risky. Seriously, Iran? Had to go with singling out an entire country instead of just saying "The Taliban" or something?)

But I digress. Yeah, this was pretty much insane. There is way too much of a double standard in this country when it comes to sexism. It's getting to be a bad point in this modern age where Feminists are more often wrong than right.
 

Tdc2182

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robotv56 said:
I hate the police. I hate how they don't give a fuck if a man gets abused by a woman!
Whoa! Where the hell did hating the police come from.

What country do you live in where they get to be the Judge and Jury? I don't know what you were told about the court system, but they have nothing to do with how it ends up.
 

William Keller

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brandon237 said:
William Keller said:
Don't you remember the "Boys are stupid..." T-shirts a few years ago? Everyone thought it was funny. What if those T-shirts were aimed against women?

No_Remainders said:
...there would be RIOTS.
3: I will give you that one, this is extremism (to say the least) and extremists tend to screw a lot up...

4: People in general, the whole of society tend to accept sexism a lot more easily when it is directed at men, but very quickly snap when it turns the other way. Equality is about being the same in the eyes of the law and society, not superior, not about getting better treatment. Yes, people are the problem, but the general attitude of said problematic people is to let this slide by when it is directed against men.

5: We have had a thread on almost every subject not relating to current news at least 3 times. But Necroing is not the way to go about it.

Sorry this is so... damn impolite, long day.
And I do realise that the whole people are hypocrites statement has probably caught me at least once in this post.
I agree that such behaviours are extremist in nature. Unfortunately, there are "gender extremists" on both sexes, constantly trying to insult or ridicule the other.

Let me make myself clear here. I am not saying that only women are being sexist while not being treated as such. Sexists ARE extremists, who try to project their psychological issues on other people, in this case members of the opposite sex.

Yet, unfortunately, I have observed that while some women do have a sexist behaviour/attitude against men, they are treated much lightly in comparison to men, simply because the general belief is that men are "strong" and do not get affected by such things.

The aforementioned statement is undoubtedly sexist. There are strong people, not men or women exclusively. I get easily hurt by negative remarks about me being a man (as hurt as many other men get), yet the rule is that a woman can insult any man as hard and as long she wishes, simply because men are "strong".

Well, news flash: men are people too. They have feelings. They aren't simple sex/war machines. Many of them get severely damaged by women, as many women get severely damaged by men.

So, why don't we put all our differences behind us and accept each other? I can't change the fact that women in some countries are treated like property, but I do behave nicely around women and I think I don't deserve being treated like dirt for mistakes of other men.
 

Brandon237

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Dags90 said:
brandon237 said:
4: People in general, the whole of society tend to accept sexism a lot more easily when it is directed at men, but very quickly snap when it turns the other way. Equality is about being the same in the eyes of the law and society, not superior, not about getting better treatment. Yes, people are the problem, but the general attitude of said problematic people is to let this slide by when it is directed against men.
This forum tends to do the opposite. It latches on to every "man bites dog" story that makes headlines about gender equality. There was a thread about a Russian man who was held against his will and raped by a woman, but I've never once seen a thread about the horrors experienced by the the millions of women and girls who are trafficked for the purpose of sexual slavery worldwide.

I would say it's generally the opposite. The moment a man is attacked sexually by a woman, it's front line news because it's so different from the norm.
But the attacker in question is treated differently, as is the victim. It is considered as funny by so many more people when a man is the victim (NOT just referring to that case in Russia).
Many studies say that domestic violence happens relatively often and quite severely against men. But cultural stereotypes and a rather flawed legal and social world mean that this does not often get either reported or helped. Hell many shows go so far as to make comedy out of such situations, fine in its own right, but the same comedy would never happen with a woman on the receiving end of things. It is just the public idea of such things that makes society a bit biased and sexist.

As for the male abuse:
http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/abusiverelationships/a/male_abuse.htm
http://www.batteredmen.com/

And a nice little passage from the wikipedia article: Both men and women have been arrested and convicted of assaulting their partners in both heterosexual and homosexual relationships. The bulk of these arrests have been men being arrested for assaulting women. However, in the case of reciprocal violence, frequently only the male perpetrator is arrested. Determining how many instances of domestic violence actually involve male victims is difficult. Male domestic violence victims may be reluctant to get help for a number of reasons. Another study has demonstrated a high degree of acceptance by women of aggression against men.

I understand that it happens to women more often by many reliable accounts, but that does not justify the huge bias in society. Especially that part about only the men getting arrested in reciprocated violence, that stings of injustice.
 

Brandon237

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William Keller said:
brandon237 said:
William Keller said:
Don't you remember the "Boys are stupid..." T-shirts a few years ago? Everyone thought it was funny. What if those T-shirts were aimed against women?

No_Remainders said:
...there would be RIOTS.
3: I will give you that one, this is extremism (to say the least) and extremists tend to screw a lot up...

4: People in general, the whole of society tend to accept sexism a lot more easily when it is directed at men, but very quickly snap when it turns the other way. Equality is about being the same in the eyes of the law and society, not superior, not about getting better treatment. Yes, people are the problem, but the general attitude of said problematic people is to let this slide by when it is directed against men.

5: We have had a thread on almost every subject not relating to current news at least 3 times. But Necroing is not the way to go about it.

Sorry this is so... damn impolite, long day.
And I do realise that the whole people are hypocrites statement has probably caught me at least once in this post.
I agree that such behaviours are extremist in nature. Unfortunately, there are "gender extremists" on both sexes, constantly trying to insult or ridicule the other.

Let me make myself clear here. I am not saying that only women are being sexist while not being treated as such. Sexists ARE extremists, who try to project their psychological issues on other people, in this case members of the opposite sex.

Yet, unfortunately, I have observed that while some women do have a sexist behaviour/attitude against men, they are treated much lightly in comparison to men, simply because the general belief is that men are "strong" and do not get affected by such things.

The aforementioned statement is undoubtedly sexist. There are strong people, not men or women exclusively. I get easily hurt by negative remarks about me being a man (as hurt as many other men get), yet the rule is that a woman can insult any man as hard and as long she wishes, simply because men are "strong".

Well, news flash: men are people too. They have feelings. They aren't simple sex/war machines. Many of them get severely damaged by women, as many women get severely damaged by men.

So, why don't we put all our differences behind us and accept each other? I can't change the fact that women in some countries are treated like property, but I do behave nicely around women and I think I don't deserve being treated like dirt for mistakes of other men.
Thank you, that was excellent.
And welcome to the Escapist :)

Very good points there, it is quite strange, both my parents are incredibly sexist O.O When they are driving the things they say... while the other is in the car mind you. It gets quite hectic.

On these threads I generally tend to take a defensive stance, I hope it doesn't come off as sexist in this case, because that would defeat the purpose of striving for actual equality, wouldn't it?

I think people just need to realise that we are all people. If job interviews were done using a voice-muffler through an opaque screen so you could only hear qualifications and not judge anything on race or sex, it would be much more just.

Stereotypes need to burn in hell, I think. Would be better for all.

An interesting story on both men and women being abusive: My dad used to be a part of the ambulance service, and he arrived at a house one day after a husband and wife had been in a fight. The wife saw them at the door, an iron-shaped burn-mark on her chest. They got her onto the ambulance. They went inside the house and sitting in front of the TV was a man, the husband, with a frying-pan lodged in his skull. it had just gone between the two lobes of the brain, he was lucky to be alive.
The husband and wife argued and fought in the ambulance on the way to the hospital -.-

That last paragraph is good. I am keeping it. Very good and very true indeed.
 

Adzma

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Men don't have rights anymore. It's tragic but true. It goes even further for white males. Society seems to have this idea that because white males of the past were stuck up racist arseholes, those of us from the current generation have to atone for their BS, and are allowed to be slandered.
 

William Keller

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brandon237 said:
Thank you, that was excellent.
And welcome to the Escapist :)
You're welcome, mate.

brandon237 said:
I think people just need to realise that we are all people. If job interviews were done using a voice-muffler through an opaque screen so you could only hear qualifications and not judge anything on race or sex, it would be much more just.
What is mentioned here by brandon237 is a very good opportunity to explain the different aspects of sexism.

Officially, sexism is degratory behaviour of a member of one gender towards the other (gender, that is). This term, however, is relatively open to interpretation.

The common mistake many people make is that they consider sexism to be solely the insulting and demeaning attitude of men towards women. However, there are many women that are sexist too. For example, when I was in high school I got in quite a few arguments with my (female) teachers over the rights of men and women and gender equality, simply because they thought that all men are PIGS and that all women are VICTIMS of men. Now *this* is sexism.

Secondly, sexism is NOT ONLY insulting the other gender, but degrading it in general, which can be accomplished in many ways. Take for example the all too familiar situation mentioned by Brandon: women trying to sexually stimulate their male interviewer in order to take the job. In my opinion, this is sexism as well, because, deep inside them, such women (or men for that matter, don't misunderstand me) think in the pattern that follows: "men are pigs that can only understand and respond to sex". This is very similar to some men's opinions on "women being nothing but sex toys". In both situations, one of the two genders' dignity is being reduced to a level of animalistic, protogenous behaviour.

What about men who would die for women? What about women that are pioneering scientists, explorers and thinkers? What about men who are poets and artists? Have they no souls? Are they just "pigs" or "sluts"?

[Team Fortress 2 Heavy's Voice] NO!
Because every human being is UNIQUE.

So...
brandon237 said:
Stereotypes need to burn in hell, I think. Would be better for all.
Amen, brother!
 

DementedSheep

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Well I don?t think you should dismiss feminism because these particular woman are being idiots and are talking shit on a show. There is a difference between feminism and misandry. Woman can be sexist pricks too. There is gender discrimination against both guys and girls just like there is racism against every race and it?s not only straight people who are bigots. I?m sick of always being perceived as a fragile victim who couldn?t possibly have done anything and many of my guy friends are sick of always being perceived as villains who think with their dick. The whole mentality of guys are suppose to be strong and are girls are suppose to be weak its must be the guy who is abusive or the guy who dragged the girl along when breaking the law or if a woman kills a man he must have done something rather than her just being a crazy *****.
I have a friend who wants to be a preschool teacher (I don?t know why, I can?t stand kids) but he is having a really hard time because he is a guy. it?s also hard for a male teacher to do simple things like say try and comfort or hug a young girl who?s crying because people for some reason seem to think he must be sexually abusing her. It?s stupid and its needs to stop.

renegade7 said:
Feminism =/= equal rights. Not that the root of the word is 'female' not 'equality'
Feminism was about equal rights. Some take it further but that?s a bastardisation of what it was meant to be. It?s just that the focus is on woman because the movement started when woman were heavily oppressed and it was much much more of a problem for woman than it was men.
 

Brandon237

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William Keller said:
You're welcome, mate.

What is mentioned here by brandon237 is a very good opportunity to explain the different aspects of sexism.

Officially, sexism is degratory behaviour of a member of one gender towards the other (gender, that is). This term, however, is relatively open to interpretation.

The common mistake many people make is that they consider sexism to be solely the insulting and demeaning attitude of men towards women. However, there are many women that are sexist too. For example, when I was in high school I got in quite a few arguments with my (female) teachers over the rights of men and women and gender equality, simply because they thought that all men are PIGS and that all women are VICTIMS of men. Now *this* is sexism.
Teachers with those attitudes? I can see a recurring problem here, if children are brought up in a culture of these double standards (as indeed they are) then said double standards are carried down again and again. And parents too, damn, If one listened to my parents rant about why the other sex should not drive cars... You could not deny that it was sexism, both ways. People also get so used to an idea that when a logical argument or idea comes along that should sway them, they refuse to acknowledge it as they are so used to their previous notions.

Secondly, sexism is NOT ONLY insulting the other gender, but degrading it in general, which can be accomplished in many ways. Take for example the all too familiar situation mentioned by Brandon: women trying to sexually stimulate their male interviewer in order to take the job. In my opinion, this is sexism as well, because, deep inside them, such women (or men for that matter, don't misunderstand me) think in the pattern that follows: "men are pigs that can only understand and respond to sex". This is very similar to some men's opinions on "women being nothing but sex toys". In both situations, one of the two genders' dignity is being reduced to a level of animalistic, protogenous behaviour.

What about men who would die for women? What about women that are pioneering scientists, explorers and thinkers? What about men who are poets and artists? Have they no souls? Are they just "pigs" or "sluts"?

[Team Fortress 2 Heavy's Voice] NO!
Because every human being is UNIQUE.
Unfortunately a good portion of social and work interaction does change because of gender. In my country that is taken very literally: We have an "affirmative action" policy here, now after apartheid, it kinda makes sense, but it is also the complete wrong way to go about this. The system goes according to race first, in any major company or government business, the lighter your skin, the lower down the list your application goes, by law. Within race, women's applications go above men's. And the pass levels for university courses are lower for people of colour. The strange thing: They don't even benefit! Recently a group of black students took a university to court! They said that the policy was racist and insulting to them as it implied they were less intelligent. Many individuals, regardless of age, race, gender, sexual orientation et cetera will strive for true equality and think about these things, but most of society, the rest of the bunch with the "sheep instinct" tend to shy away from reform and perpetuate stereotypes and cultural bias at every turn.

What really needs to happen is for people to be educated on these things, as part of schooling they should be forced to try and take a neutral outlook on these things, even if only for a few assignments, and open discussion and education should be encouraged, but the masses, they do not like this idea... open discussion has never been the schooling system's strong point :(
 

Rage4Kon

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Sizzle Montyjing said:
Is this what it's like?
Is it different?
What do you think?
I beleive he makes some good points, although some of its over the top.

EDIT: And yes, he does swear FAR too much in this video, and yes, Sharon Osbourne should cut off her tongue for the inexcusible bile that came out of her mouth.
Off Topic: As soon as I saw this video I wanted to put it on the escapist forums. Looks like you beat me to it. :D
 

Sizzle Montyjing

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Rage4Kon said:
Ninja... AWAY!!!
Adzma said:
Men don't have rights anymore. It's tragic but true. It goes even further for white males. Society seems to have this idea that because white males of the past were stuck up racist arseholes, those of us from the current generation have to atone for their BS, and are allowed to be slandered.
That is why we need a time machine.
I do find it really unfair when i get punished for what my ancestors did, it just seems a little unfair.
 

William Keller

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brandon237 said:
Unfortunately a good portion of social and work interaction does change because of gender. In my country that is taken very literally: We have an "affirmative action" policy here, now after apartheid, it kinda makes sense, but it is also the complete wrong way to go about this. The system goes according to race first, in any major company or government business, the lighter your skin, the lower down the list your application goes, by law. Within race, women's applications go above men's. And the pass levels for university courses are lower for people of colour. The strange thing: They don't even benefit! Recently a group of black students took a university to court! They said that the policy was racist and insulting to them as it implied they were less intelligent. Many individuals, regardless of age, race, gender, sexual orientation et cetera will strive for true equality and think about these things, but most of society, the rest of the bunch with the "sheep instinct" tend to shy away from reform and perpetuate stereotypes and cultural bias at every turn.

What really needs to happen is for people to be educated on these things, as part of schooling they should be forced to try and take a neutral outlook on these things, even if only for a few assignments, and open discussion and education should be encouraged, but the masses, they do not like this idea... open discussion has never been the schooling system's strong point :(
Tell me about it... in Greece, it is a man's DUTY (meaning it's compulsory) to serve in the army for an 18-month period RIGHT AFTER you graduate from high school.
When I finally started my university studies, women who had the same age as me were a year and a half CLOSER to finishing theirs.
Which also means, they'll be a year and a half CLOSER TO FINDING A BLOODY JOB than me.

Anyway, enough with Greece's antiquitated drafting system.

I have to congratulate you for stressing perhaps the most important point in solving all gender/sexism issues: education. I am unaware of the situation in other countries, but in Greece, schools became mixed (both male and female students) in 1984! That's about thirty years earlier. It is this reason, I believe, that has resulted in the teachers' behaviour I mentioned earlier to be like that.

The most important thing here, is for both parties to fully understand what their role in nature is and how to become better at it. NO, I am NOT referring to a gender role, yet the role of humankind in general. For instance, my role (art, creation) is different than my friend's (science, discovery), and we're both male. One's role is based on one's personality, psychological traits and their intellectual habits: who they are, regardless of gender, is going to determine what they will want to do.

Unfortunately, most people either want to repress others (some men) or want to retaliate for past situations (some women). But, why, why, why can't we understand that only by the combination of our psyches can we achieve the vita aeterna. Anger and hatred are destructive forces that will only aid in inducing more pain and suffering; we should focus in building a better world for all of us instead.

Please, forgive me for the somewhat poetic last paragraph. My point is, in short, that it is not gender that makes us who we are. It is how we think, what we feel, what we wish for. Frankly, I don't care about such gender issues anymore. Back in high school, yep, I could have killed some of my idiotic teachers and classmates, but now I just don't care. As long as there are people who can fully understand that the two gender are equal, I think I'm going to be fine.