It's the End of the War as We Know It

[Woodsey]

Whilst I agree, if no PC gamers buy MW2 then IW/Activision are just as likely to say "fuck you" to our faces (instead of using their dastardly tactics like so far). They could then easily use this to say that they won't make PC games at all.

So what? It's their loss. It's not like they're the only ones developing for the PC. Let them die and wait for another company to step in and fill the niche.
Why is that a problem?

Because it's already been half their excuse already and now other dev's look interested in following suit (although not as harshly).

Id Software with Rage and no dedicated servers anyone?

And if we're not seen to be buying the biggest title ever, then others might start jumping ship and saying: "well if they wouldn't even buy MW2 how do we have a chance?"

Not everyone will of course, but it's a possibility that a few will.

 

[Whoracle]

Because it's already been half their excuse already and now other dev's look interested in following suit (although not as harshly).

Id Software with Rage and no dedicated servers anyone?

And if we're not seen to be buying the biggest title ever, then others might start jumping ship and saying: "well if they wouldn't even buy MW2 how do we have a chance?"

Not everyone will of course, but it's a possibility that a few will.

You underestimate greed. Greed is what has led to this, and ironically greed is going to lead out of this.
Consider this:
Current Gen consoles were all about graphics and power. No one would have thought that you could make any cash with less than impressive graphics. Along came the Wii, which, as far as I know, has sold like mad. Granted, the games quality isn't what it used to be, according to the hardcore crowd, but someone saw an opportunity and took it.
It'll be the same with PC Gaming. While the train of thought you professed may be viable for someone with common sense, the businesspeople will think otherwise: "Hey, there's a goldmine laying unused. Let's take it!"
I mean, really, it's not common sense to alienate 1/5th of your customer base, is it?
Someone, somewhere will make use of the potential of the PC market, but only when the rubbish is cleared. But how could someone hope (or should even try) to make a good game when you're all buying trash, even if it galls you?

 

[Woodsey]

Because it's already been half their excuse already and now other dev's look interested in following suit (although not as harshly).

Id Software with Rage and no dedicated servers anyone?

And if we're not seen to be buying the biggest title ever, then others might start jumping ship and saying: "well if they wouldn't even buy MW2 how do we have a chance?"

Not everyone will of course, but it's a possibility that a few will.

You underestimate greed. Greed is what has led to this, and ironically greed is going to lead out of this.
Consider this:
Current Gen consoles were all about graphics and power. No one would have thought that you could make any cash with less than impressive graphics. Along came the Wii, which, as far as I know, has sold like mad. Granted, the games quality isn't what it used to be, according to the hardcore crowd, but someone saw an opportunity and took it.
It'll be the same with PC Gaming. While the train of thought you professed may be viable for someone with common sense, the businesspeople will think otherwise: "Hey, there's a goldmine laying unused. Let's take it!"
I mean, really, it's not common sense to alienate 1/5th of your customer base, is it?
Someone, somewhere will make use of the potential of the PC market, but only when the rubbish is cleared. But how could someone hope (or should even try) to make a good game when you're all buying trash, even if it galls you?

And yet Activision weren't "really bothered" by the MW2 PC outrage.

Besides, I don't want the PC to go the way of the Wii (totally shit) - power and graphics are still the main advertisers for the current gen consoles, so why aren't they advertising it on the most powerful platform of the 3?

Activision need to have a re-think (like EA did) and get Bobby Cuntick out before people turn around and properly say "fuck you" back. It would seem this is now starting to happen.

 

[Woe Is You]

As a "consoletard" here is what I don't understand. Everything you have described except mods could potentially be fixed without dedicated servers.

How would you fix game sizes then, for instance? Or the lack of a unified friends list? I mean, the first one is almost impossible to fix until we all have a 100/100Mbit broadband at the very least, the latter one is also pretty impossible to solve unless your potential solution includes turning the PC into a closed platform.

A dedicated server is basically just that: a server that runs just the server software and doesn't have to bother with graphics and audio processing or any of that stuff. That such a solution runs better than P2P stuff should be a no-brainer. Since you have to connect to it externally, it means that a) no player has 0 ms delay making the game more fair and b) it eliminates lagswitch shenanigans.

And, really, if you want a "jump in" button, all you need is what is basically an automated system that chooses the first server from a list that fits what you're asking (seriously, I've programmed these things). You can make things easier without stripping away functionality. If your intention is something completely different, however...

If the PC platform is too small to be worth the time it takes to give them dedicated servers, then so be it.

Considering MW2 is running on pretty much the same engine COD4 is, making the server software would've taken far less time than developing IWNet seeing how they already have the code base for it. It's obviously not about being worth the time and more about not liking the idea of an open platform.

 

[MonkeyPunch]

I only just found this article *blush* but it is actually a real relief that someone in the gaming press seems to be able to look further than the end of their own nose and realise the "consequences" of this and what it means for PC players of MW2 and PC players at large.

Honestly, most media coverage on this subject has been pathetic and totally ill/un-informed with no perspective for the bigger picture and absolutely no understanding for the PC folk, unlike this article. Good job.

Also most other articles seem to have been written with the precise intent of fuelling debate rather than putting forward ideas. As if the media just took the PC server debate as something to fuel their viewing numbers.

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

I knew this would happen. Dedicated servers are PC-only feature, and therefore developers stop bothering creating it. That's because PC platform is not profitable any more. For example... You can release a good small game on PSN or XBLA Marketspace and if it's actually good it'll be profitable.
What will happen if you release a small downloadable game on PC? First day crack.

 

[the1ultimate]

Either fight constantly and continuously for your rights or effectively forsake them, as you loose them one by one.

It's incredibly hard to draw lines in the sand on issues like this.

As sensationalist as it is to compare this situation to a George Orwell novel, there really should be a name for the Animal Farm "Pig Effect".

 

[dodo1331]

The PC will never die until companies like Bioware, Blizzard, Valve, and DICE stop making games for the PC.

ESPECIALLY Blizzard and Valve. I'm pretty sure those two will never leave the PC.

 

[whaleswiththumbs]

No offence to anyone who has made an article on this, but aren't we making mountains outta bumps in the road with this. Its two companies stupid decision not to do something thatb will take a huge chunk outta their player base and profit. Can we please just wait to see who else wants to follow these lemmings off the cliffs before we declare an emergency?

 

[luckshot]

thank you shamus for actually looking at why pc gamers are upset, instead of just saying the "pc gamers are whiny and upset"

No offence to anyone who has made an article on this, but aren't we making mountains outta bumps in the road with this. Its two companies stupid decision not to do something thatb will take a huge chunk outta their player base and profit. Can we please just wait to see who else wants to follow these lemmings off the cliffs before we declare an emergency?

well the problem is that this is a major developer setting a lot of precedent with a major game. We can assume they might try this on another release. Another developer is already following suit, how long until others do so.
it isn't the present that scares us, but the future

 

[Mromson]

I am certainly spending money where my mouth is. IW can go to hell along with Activision.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Is dedicated servors are being removed because they aren't economically viable, I presume that means people aren't PC gaming as much (correct me if I'm wrong)

This won't be because they've died out, PC gamers were hardly old men back in the day. Either they stopped gaming, or they moved on to consoles. It's been said before but this has been coming for a while, and I have no doubt that when something entirely new comes along consoles will die out as well, and there will still be a few die hard fanatics clinging to the days when everything was better with consoles, and developers will still make games for them while slowly shifting to the new system.

Unless PC gaming can suddenly become as relevant as console gaming again, this is going to happen, and crying about it won't change it. So instead this time should be spent enjoying the experiences left and reminiscing over the good times.

 

[Woe Is You]

Is dedicated servors are being removed because they aren't economically viable, I presume that means people aren't PC gaming as much (correct me if I'm wrong)

It's been said quite a few times already but, really, it has nothing to do with dedicated servers not being economically viable. Plenty of reasons for this but one of these is the fact that the new IWNet architecture cost way more than simply digging into the old COD4 codebase and getting the server software from there. There's news about this, by the way.

The second is the simple fact that Infinity Ward wouldn't even be running those servers like they weren't running them for COD4; the servers would mostly be operated by the players themselves. Essentially this means that after the game's been released, they wouldn't have to pay a dime to run the servers (as opposed to the present model where their game is dependent on servers solely run by IW).

 

[squid5580]

As a "consoletard" here is what I don't understand. Everything you have described except mods could potentially be fixed without dedicated servers.

How would you fix game sizes then, for instance? Or the lack of a unified friends list? I mean, the first one is almost impossible to fix until we all have a 100/100Mbit broadband at the very least, the latter one is also pretty impossible to solve unless your potential solution includes turning the PC into a closed platform.

A dedicated server is basically just that: a server that runs just the server software and doesn't have to bother with graphics and audio processing or any of that stuff. That such a solution runs better than P2P stuff should be a no-brainer. Since you have to connect to it externally, it means that a) no player has 0 ms delay making the game more fair and b) it eliminates lagswitch shenanigans.

And, really, if you want a "jump in" button, all you need is what is basically an automated system that chooses the first server from a list that fits what you're asking (seriously, I've programmed these things). You can make things easier without stripping away functionality. If your intention is something completely different, however...

If the PC platform is too small to be worth the time it takes to give them dedicated servers, then so be it.

Considering MW2 is running on pretty much the same engine COD4 is, making the server software would've taken far less time than developing IWNet seeing how they already have the code base for it. It's obviously not about being worth the time and more about not liking the idea of an open platform.

I must have misworded my question. I understand all the issues a P2P can have. What I don't understand is why they can't create 1 huge dedicated type server that would solve all of the connection type issues. Sure you will still be stuck with whatever number of players are allowed per match (which seems logical since you would need different map sizes to accomodate more players) but would treat everyone like they were connecting to it externally. Therefore solving most of the problems with lag and whatnot (sure you will still have cheaters but I doubt dedicated servers eliminated that problem completely to begin with).

 

[VanBasten]

I must have misworded my question. I understand all the issues a P2P can have. What I don't understand is why they can't create 1 huge dedicated type server that would solve all of the connection type issues.

Here's two simple reasons why this couldn't work.

a) You can't have only one server for all the players, you would need several truckloads to accommodate everyone. This costs lots of money.
b) Distance from server is also very important for ping, you'd have to have them spread all over the world, as people play the game everywhere. This is difficult to plan out.

Issues (a) and (b) don't exist when you give players dedicated servers, as people pay for hosting themselves, and host servers nearby.

 

[squirrelman42]

I feel fine

 

[SirDerick]

What's pissing me off about this is that it's starting to sound like Kurt Vonnegut's short story, "Harrison Bergeron".
The year 2009: all consoles were now finally equal.
Not only that, but they tried to pass this off as a "good" thing.

 

[DTWolfwood]

What was IW's reason for removing dedicated server support from the PC version, anyway?

Greed <.< They still want the money from PC gamers however small the community is ($60 price tag) but they dont want to put in the leg work to make it different than the console versions. So to sum it all up they are greedy sons of bitches. (mind you id be more than happy to give them the extra $10 if they kept the multiplayer like that of Cod4:MW)

"A lot of gamers have given the faith-based response: "I'm sure they'll work out these technical details." It's true, there is a solution to all of these problems. It's called a "dedicated server." If these companies are unwilling to give us the standard, tried-and-true technology which is readily available, how much less are they going to waste time inventing completely new solutions to these old problems? They're doing this to save money, remember?"

That paragraph hits home the hardest. All the problems can be dampened (not eliminate since there will ALWAYS be those problems on PC) with that simplest of all things. Sure we may act entitled but you honestly think that a company ruled by Greed is gonna give 2 sh!ts about fixing problems on their smallest user base? lol we can all dream.

Shamus you are my hero. :3

 

[MR T3D]

As a "consoletard" here is what I don't understand. Everything you have described except mods could potentially be fixed without dedicated servers. It seems to me that Activision is trying to evolve PC gaming to a point where it won't go the way of the dinosaurs. Fearing that is something I can understand. But what I have witnessed here in every last MW2 thread is not fear. It is demands. Fear would be not preordering and waiting to hear from reliable sources if they have indeed fixed these issues or not. Not posting whah whah whah Activision is evil because they dare try to improve on a system that isn't exactly noob friendly in hopes of gaining more customers. Now that MW2 has launched and it has been a few days I am curious on how the MP actually is. Too bad I doubt I will be able to find an unbiased opinion on the matter with user scores ranking in at 0 on metacritic and stupidity like that.

and mods are amazing. for your consideration: W@W MP is really just a mod of CoD4's.
zombies? modified dogs+custom map(s)
mods are basicially buying omne game and getting several more FREE

 

[elvor0]

Thank you Shamus, for writing a nicely outlined article on what the problem is, hopefully Devs might see it and realize what this means for PC multiplayer, I still haven't bought MW2, and I wont because I refuse to back down from what I believe in, people saying "get over it", why don't you roll over so they can stomp on the other side of your face?

Although I have also managed to convince alot of console people in my school not to buy MW 2 because of the lack of dedicated servers, because they dont understand, and they know that MW2 was really laggy surrounding its launch and they think it's because of the lack of dedicated servers, regardless of the fact that they were never there in the first place.