Japanese Government Enforcing Anti-Piracy Law on Anime and Manga - Update

[Alterego-X]

And Katana, or shogun is a stupid comparison. Katana is used in English. Shogun is used in English. Therefore in an English translation designed for any target age group above 5, Katana is correct, Shogun is correct.

Yeah, and Tundere is used in english too, like you just said. Beyond that, it's all a matter of degrees.

To not fully translate something makes you bad at translating. Theres no argument to that. If you say: "Well most anime fans will understand" BUT WHAT IF I'M JUST GETTING INTO ANIME?

What if you are particularly bad at Japanese history, and don't know what a "shogun" is? Even if another, historically english word is used, what if a few people will not know it? There will always be SOME people who don't know something, the translator's job is to pick the one that the most people will understand, not to pick the one with the least Japanese linguistic roots. An overtly liberal translation can just as easily obfusate meaning as an overtly literal one. Simply being aversive of japanese cultural artifacts, will not entirely make a text 100% understandable, because NOTHING will do that. The question is which is the least intrusive option.

And an official translation putting honourifics in has not done their job. Plain and simple, and I'd be annoyed if I found one that did.

You have every right to be annoyed by a japanese "Mr. Bean", or an english "Monsieur d'Artagnan", you just don't get to call it unprofessional when the overwhelming majority of professional translators are doing it.

If commercial anime distributors are choosing an unusually liberal solution, such as dropping honorifics entirely, or americanizing them, or replacing jargon with rough western equivalents, that's their business, there is evidently a market for that, both among anime newbies, and among people who go out of their way not to appear weeabooish.

But this is not "being professional", that's being on one extreme dogmatic end of a sliding scale of possible attitudes.

 

[Denamic]

It's so easy to say piracy hurts something or other with an arbitrary number. Piracy hurts this by over 20 billion dollars! Piracy is killing the movie industry by another few hundred billion dollars, despite the fact that it's bigger and more profitable than ever and continue becoming more so at a faster rate than ever. I'd like to see the methodology behind these numbers, because the track record behind that isn't the best.

Spoiler

 

[Someone Depressing]

Manga aren't like Western comics. They're a huge part of Japan's culture, and there are all sorts of manga; older audiences, younger audiences...

So why the fuck is this only happening now? I'm confused. How will they enforce it? "We are Japan and, although you have different laws completely regarding copywright and piracy, we shall smite you with our smitin' stick"? That doesn't hold up.

And really, they have been expecting this. They can only have been expecting this. And the fact that something's only being done about it, seriously, now is baffling.

 

[Valkrex]

God Dammit. I finally get back into the anime scene, and now its going to be a ROYAL pain in the ass to keep up with my current shows.

I use a lot of these streaming sites, because its VERY hard to find these damn things legally in a reasonable time. Netflix has been getting better about it, but only with shorter ones like Kill la Kill and Attack on Titan. My brother and I are watching Fairy Tail right now, but netflix only has the first 48 episodes, and there are about 200 in the show right now. And the first 48 came out like 3-4 years ago.

Hell you still can't see the last 12 episodes of Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood on Netflix. And the problems with crunchyroll and funimation have already been stated.

And a few dollars for anime? Seriously? What universe are you in? Trying to buy a DVD set of a newer show is a fucking nightmare. Upwards of $80 for maybe FOUR episodes.

Want to slow down piracy? Make the damn shows available in a timely manner that doesn't gouge the customer. Hell, the entire Breaking Bad Blu-Ray set (which has around 60 episodes IIRC) was CHEAPER then 12 episodes of any new anime. Something is WRONG here.

 

[ASnogarD]

I wonder how popular Anime would of been outside Japan if there wasnt a fan subbing community (aka the evil pirates of Anime / manga business model ) ?

I initially got into anime in South Africa and at the time it was near impossible to actually buy any Anime or Manga, and the few times I spotted a 'legit' copy it was a fake anyway.
I got to using CrunchyRoll but its service is rather sketchy at most, rarely capable of delivering the higher quality streams without suddenly stopping the stream mid way (not my connection as its rather decent, and doesnt have issues with other forms of streaming (twitch, youtube, etc)) , plus the issue of re-watching old faves AND the regional licensing crap that the publishers (not Crunchy) pull doesnt help.

I went to see about buying a copy of SAO at Crunchy... £72 for the first half of the first arc of the first season , Blu Ray ...WTF!?! Wheres a cheaper DvD option ? N/A...

My initial feeling about this was simply : Way to slap the fans that made the actual overseas market for the Anime / Manga scene, the fan subbers showed there was a market and hell, even showed businesses which show was really popular and worth licensing... free marketing and popularity data.
Now the markets grown , fan subbers are nasty evil pirates that steal money from the anime / manga scene.

 

[Valkrex]

So they think shutting down the only way to get anime is going to stop piracy, instead of offering easier, safer and reasonably cheap options to buy it, which would eliminate the need for piracy?
People don't pirate for fun, they do it because it's the best and usually the only option.

This. I usually do my best to avoid pirating things, or "illegally" streaming. Usually I can find good services to allow that such as Netflix, Amazon Instant Video, iTunes, Steam, GoG etc. but with anime half the time its my only fucking option. The selection on Netflix is improving, but very slowly and half the anime I like on there are missing half the episodes, which have been out for YEARS. Looking at you Fairy Tail and Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood. So unless I want to wait 4 years after a show ends and pay $200 for ONE season its the only way I can actually watch this stuff.

 

[drakonz]

So they think shutting down the only way to get anime is going to stop piracy, instead of offering easier, safer and reasonably cheap options to buy it, which would eliminate the need for piracy?
People don't pirate for fun, they do it because it's the best and usually the only option.

you are compledly correct about that and in anime/manga piracy is even better option than in movies and games, because quality of translations is generaly better with fan groups not to forget most manga's i have personaly read have never even been sold outside of japan(+ cost is another issue 5.95-9.95? for new manga release with just 18 pages of actual manga is just too much)

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

When one prodiver has most of the IPs online and with full subtitles(not skipping music) and non Americanized translations I will bother to to buy a subscription until then, there are still better services that just happen to be free.

 

[Alterego-X]

God Dammit. I finally get back into the anime scene, and now its going to be a ROYAL pain in the ass to keep up with my current shows.

Spoiler: it won't. Worst case scenario, you might have to switch from streaming to torrents. Probably not even that, just from one streaming site to some other new one.

The second issue is particular to Japanese television. Unlike in the United States, TV channels don't pay distributors for their shows. They air the show on the channel for free, and make all of their money from video sales and merchandise. This is kind of a dumb system, but I bet it works out great for the channels.

It's not a dumb system, actually it's pretty good at coexisting with free culture, and it fosters the creation of niche series. After all, it means that the general population can watch the TV shows for free, but they profit based on how many super-fans choose to buy the discs and merch solely to support their absolute favorites. So if one show has 200k viewers and 10k buyers, while the other has 100k viewers and 20k buyers, creators will be incentivized to make more like the latter. Cue artsy animation experiments, random fetish panderings, and hobbyist geek-outs.

If anything, this should be the biggest reason to support file-sharing. The anime industry already set up a system that entirely internalized the "try before buy" model that piracy apologists promote. It's true that the average western anime fan is watching everything for free, but so is the average Japanese fan. Studios could calmly rely on a few of them being the "whales" and support the industry.

The only reason to not accept it, is that western fans are dong the same thing illegally, so publishers get up in arms about their authority being disrespected by thieves, even though realistically, the system that pirates use is already the same that they would support - as long as it is formally approved.

 

[Omnicrom]

The second issue is particular to Japanese television. Unlike in the United States, TV channels don't pay distributors for their shows. They air the show on the channel for free, and make all of their money from video sales and merchandise. This is kind of a dumb system, but I bet it works out great for the channels. The result, though, is that those dumb $60 videos for two episodes are how they make all their money, so making inexpensive shows available tanks their entire business model. As a result, they can't just make shows available for cheap as a rule; only a few shows can manage it, if they can rely on major merchandise after the fact. This is a problem that needs to be addressed, but it won't be for a while because of Issue #1.

To go further on Japanese TV bit the channels actually own a part of the license of any show they air. When a show is released on DVD/BD it's licensed not just by Toei or Bandai or whoever else makes anime, but also to TVTokyo or Fuji TV or whichever channel aired it. Anyone who watched Gundam Build Fighters is probably familiar with this practice even if they don't know it. The entire reason there were no Mobile Suits from either Gundam 00 Season 2 or AGE was precisely because it aired on another channel from those two shows. The previous channel's license had yet to expire so they weren't willing to let it go for a show that was going to one of their rivals.

The end result is that a unified action to combat piracy is an unlikely prospect simply because there are so many more actors. The concept of a GOG style centralized shop to let you buy anime is thoroughly unlikely simply because of how many interests will balk at getting a small piece of the pie.

 

[iniudan]

God Dammit. I finally get back into the anime scene, and now its going to be a ROYAL pain in the ass to keep up with my current shows.

I use a lot of these streaming sites, because its VERY hard to find these damn things legally in a reasonable time. Netflix has been getting better about it, but only with shorter ones like Kill la Kill and Attack on Titan. My brother and I are watching Fairy Tail right now, but netflix only has the first 48 episodes, and there are about 200 in the show right now. And the first 48 came out like 3-4 years ago.

Hell you still can't see the last 12 episodes of Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood on Netflix. And the problems with crunchyroll and funimation have already been stated.

And a few dollars for anime? Seriously? What universe are you in? Trying to buy a DVD set of a newer show is a fucking nightmare. Upwards of $80 for maybe FOUR episodes.

Want to slow down piracy? Make the damn shows available in a timely manner that doesn't gouge the customer. Hell, the entire Breaking Bad Blu-Ray set (which has around 60 episodes IIRC) was CHEAPER then 12 episodes of any new anime. Something is WRONG here.

If you don't mind sub version, Crunchyroll as 49 to 175, if you want to finish the first series.

 

[Valkrex]

God Dammit. I finally get back into the anime scene, and now its going to be a ROYAL pain in the ass to keep up with my current shows.

I use a lot of these streaming sites, because its VERY hard to find these damn things legally in a reasonable time. Netflix has been getting better about it, but only with shorter ones like Kill la Kill and Attack on Titan. My brother and I are watching Fairy Tail right now, but netflix only has the first 48 episodes, and there are about 200 in the show right now. And the first 48 came out like 3-4 years ago.

Hell you still can't see the last 12 episodes of Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood on Netflix. And the problems with crunchyroll and funimation have already been stated.

And a few dollars for anime? Seriously? What universe are you in? Trying to buy a DVD set of a newer show is a fucking nightmare. Upwards of $80 for maybe FOUR episodes.

Want to slow down piracy? Make the damn shows available in a timely manner that doesn't gouge the customer. Hell, the entire Breaking Bad Blu-Ray set (which has around 60 episodes IIRC) was CHEAPER then 12 episodes of any new anime. Something is WRONG here.

If you don't mind sub version, Crunchyroll as 49 to 175, if you want to finish the first series.

Oh nice, thanks! I prefer the subs on this one actually. Dub's not bad, but it just sounds better in Japanese.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

Except that 99% of the interesting and good stuff never gets, legally, out of Japan or in the case it does, it's 2 years later with awful dubs and costs 50 euro per episode or 2.
They should just stream it online with official English subs and sell people reasonable priced subscriptions.

 

[hentropy]

I would really have no problem with this if American distributors shot for equity with their content offerings- which is to say being able to offer the same experiences as the Japanese for the same relative cost.

This really hurts with manga. I understand they can't really move as fast as scanlators, but that's only if we focus on the content itself. Manga comes in two forms: in a monthly serial magazines and in tankoubon volumes. Magazines are somewhat misleading in name, manga magazines are anywhere between 800-1200 pages and are the side of phone books, having upwards of 30 different series in the same magazine. For between 600-800 yen (6-8 bucks). If you don't want those you can wait until the volumes come out and buy 5-8 chapters for a bit cheaper than most magazines, 5-7 bucks.

Of course there's the time it takes between the release of chapters in Japan and the west. But then when we do wait over a year, the quality of the volumes is laughable. In Japan, tankoubon volumes come with dust jacket, omake (extras), along with full-color official artwork printed on high-quality rice paper. With a western copy they never come with jackets, and you'll be lucky if there's a single color page or extras that aren't ads. The quality of the paper is low and the durability of the books in general isn't nearly as good. And then the kicker: they want twice the price, much of the time.

With anime it's a bit better, but still not great. Crunchyroll has their subscription service- which is much more money than Japanese people have to pay to watch a TV series for the first time (which is nothing). Hulu tries their best with their ad/subscription system. Asking people to pay to watch TV quality anime for the first AND THEN asking them to pay a lot more to get it in full BD quality is unreasonable. And of course, Japanese BDs much of the time come with many extras for collectors. Though to be fair, buying the full series in the US is a good bit cheaper than it is in Japan.

So if this new organization really wants to spur the legal consumption of anime, they should shoot to offer equitable experiences rather than gouge a niche audience.

 

[The Grim Ace]

Well, I'd gladly go to the official release of my favorite series but, yet again, there aren't any sites with official releases of it. A few seasons of Gundam were on Crunchyroll, then they were removed and partially sent to Daisuki, now Daisuki doesn't have any of it either. Gundam is only a massively popular series that's about to be hitting its 35th anniversary, yet no legal alternatives out there. Buying the DVD sets wouldn't actually give money to the creators as Sunrise of America hasn't been a company since 2009 or so and, even then, they were horribly overpriced. I'd love to buy the official mangas but the vast majority of them have never seen an official translation (at least we're finally getting Gundam: the Origin and oh yes have I been buying those). The only option I have to support my favorite series is the expensive option of buying models, which requires either buying them online or going to specialty shops with limited selection. So, looking at my options, I'm at a loss.

Then again, let's just keep the quality of argument at those dirty pirates pirating people's profits. Well, then again, I should probably focus less on something that entertains me and more on work, thanks Japanese anime and manga industry!/s

 

[Colt47]

Why does this feel like more posturing than getting anything done? It's great they want to support the artists, but unfortunately the problem is that the prices and quality of manga outside japan are kind of bad and take too long to release...

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

The METI states online piracy hurts Japan by nearly $20 billion. Over half of US anime and manga fans watch and read pirated works, according to the METI.

This is the part where I have to point-out that there's a disconnect between someone pirating something, and the provider of that content actually losing said money. Just as a simple example, it takes a long time for anime/manga to get officially localized in English. If a person pirates a fan-translated copy of the anime, then buys the official version when it's actually released; has Japan lost that money? No, they haven't. Then there's the same "Some people wouldn't have bought the game in the first place" argument that's just as true here as it is in the gaming department.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying that piracy is good, just that the "$20-billion" figure is definitely inflated, and the fact that "over half" of fans in the US are pirating content doesn't mean anything since it doesn't account for the people who then buy the official copies once localized versions are available.