Jimquisition: Better Does Not Mean Good

[Ragsnstitches]

snip

A few points, but generally, we're not too far out of line.

1.) Steam is really pretty DRM. There's plenty of games that can't be played without being perma-connected to Steam, or at least connected on launch. If your gripe against the Ubisoft copy protection is that "why do I need to be online all the time to play my game?", adding a pretty GUI and a chat over the top doesn't make it any less hypocritical. There's always going to be a certain percentage of piracy - even if we banned BT and Usenet, people would clone discs, make SneakerNets, etc. The thing is, Ubisoft/EA/Everyone else have a right to protect people from stealing their property as much as anyone else does. I don't agree with all their tactics, and I understand the gripes. The issue isn't the concept so much as the immediate implementation. Developers and publishers need to better, and the gaming community needs to discourage piracy. I may not like Activision. I may not agree with things they do. However, if I steal their stuff, I'm as much the cause as anybody else.

And to paraphrase Louis C.K. - "What happens after you enter the code or the online pass? Did you get a hundred hours of the work of the best animators, game designers, writers, coders, and voice actors ever? Did your magic box give you the awesome experience of being a space captain bounty hunter treasure finding ninja soldier world hero that flirts with beautiful women and saves the world? Did that happen? Then shut up! Technology is amazing and everyone sucks."

There's a sense that even the most minor of inconveniences are used as excuses to hate on the most wonderful of things. You may have to jump through some hoops. Get over it. I'm not saying this applies universally (especially when the DRM makes your PC not work...) but sometimes it really is just whining. If you have nothing but a desktop on a persistent 12 MBPS connection in the U.S. and you're worried about always on DRM, maybe the problem is you. You're not going to the third world with that video game. If you do, you're not going to worry about playing it. If it affects you, then gripe. Again - your results may vary here.

The thing is - why do they need to reduce the price of new releases? $60 was the same price a game was in 2002. I think that's when they went up from $50. The price of making a game has gone up exponentially, and the price hasn't. GameStop is a cancer. They buy games at $20 and sell them at $50, intact. Now, if they go all digital, and there's no used games sales, I expect them to drop the price, since my equity (the opportunity to resell my game) is gone, but that's it.

Now, if games had depreciation - if the discs wore out easily - if there were a way to age a game, the same way any normal good ages and becomes less functional, then this would be fine - but if a game is kept well, and doesn't get scratched to death, the systems won't damage it, so there's minimal depreciation. The game you buy used a year from now, is the same game I bought new. It is a year old, but the only value is in perception - the good itself does not depreciate. That's what makes the secondary market so nasty - there's no incentive to buy a game from the publisher the day after purchase unless they make it.

1. Steam is DRM. I don't like that. But steam is also an online store that offers GREAT deals. It offers a FREE, comprehensive and user friendly community service. It makes massive promotions for Indie and little league developers, promoting stuff that would have been forgotten or missed entirely under the shouting and raving of the big boys. It promises security and a right to own your purchased games if ever the platform is taken down, not just a license to play it with the service. It offers an offline mode that DOES function (but isn't well implemented). Steam is like a vaccination by a nice doctor, it's uncomfortable and is not something I want, but he promises to make things feel better and gives us a lollipop and a warm smile. I would rather not be treated like a child, but at least I'm not furious over it.

Ubisoft? Shafts us and tells us we deserve it. Their DRM is intrusive and DOESN'T WORK. Ubisoft is a rapist that let's us watch what we want on the telly. I fucking love watching Cowboy Builders, but I don't think I love it enough to compensate for BEING BONED unwillingly.

Sorry for the crude analogy. I hate Ubisoft and actively avoid their products. I don't pirate their stuff, I just ignore it. I refuse to even give them a chance.

2. The issue with DRM isn't that it's there. Steam makes it imperceptible AND offers a platform worthy of my money, they make a bad thing less bad by offering a really big good thing and as much support as is practical to the consumer. Ubisoft? Give it to us raw and tell us it's for OUR own good and that we don't know what we need anyway. ITS NOT FOR OUR OWN GOOD. Its for THEIR own good. They failed on their end, so we get punished, while the crooks walk away laughing. Great!

It's not Ubisofts place to punish Pirates (which it fails at totally anyway), but to offer a better service... a service we want to pay for (which it fails at for me). But a game is a product right? Well yes, it is a product... however they also work with functions beyond the product that have long lasting effects and are used to monitor the community... that is a service. Their service sucks and unfortunately the distinction between their service and their product is non-existent, so I treat them the same. Their service sucks, which makes their games suck.

TAKE NOTE OF THIS POINT
If I pirated a bad DRM game I get to play it without hassle from any hidden software within the product (as it is cracked) and I get it for FREE. That happens when I do the WRONG THING, the thing they don't want me to do in the first place. IF I PAID FOR IT, I have to fill in serial keys to confirm what I paid for legitimately is legitimate, register to a site so I can be monitored by it and remain connected to that site/service to be monitored at all times... just in case my game suddenly turns into a pirated game!? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!?

Way to make your friends into enemies and your enemies laugh their asses off.

3. Pricing is... a tough nut to crack. It's not perfect. In a bid to avoid a few more rants I can say that I agree with your sentiments but feel that system is showing too many holes in it. It's flawed (by the simple fact that they aren't getting enough and we aren't happy with the prices) and rather then getting it fixed they keep shovelling more money (the thing that they want more of) into SERVICES no one wants and that don't work as is intended, but instead completely counter intuitively..

 

[CardinalPiggles]

If you're poor, you shouldn't be buying games, or you should wait until they are cheaper, why must people insist on buying every new game that comes out and then complain when they say they are too expensive, have a little self control for god sake. And vote with your god damn wallet people.

 

[Sylveria]

This episode could have been a lot worse.

...but I'm not sure if it could've been better. I also find that people who espouse the "it could be worse, so shut your trap and take another dick in the arse" attitude are usually the ones who piss and moan about "entitlement" when people air legitimate grievances about a particular game/business model/whatever.

As a person who see's an issue with entitlement among gamers, I resent that. People do throw that buzz word around a bit too much, but it is a problem in some cases.

When gamers chastise a developer about a game for being "consolised" or being dumbed down, arguing that the developers don't care about their franchise and fans that follow them, ignoring the fact that the "streamlining" is intended to make a game more accessible to people with less tolerance to inefficient/unwieldy designs, and that audience being just as entitled to the games as you (but not as patient with games as you) since they will pay for it with money that is of equal value to your own... . Ergo, Entitlement. Your investment is equal to theirs, you have no real ground to argue otherwise (beyond feeling entitled).

Complaining that a product you paid for does not meet your expectations is not entitlement. It is a legitimate consumer complaint. Other people being happy with it does not negate your issues with it. By your logic, if they developed a car with no brakes to make it more marketable to the reckless driving enthusiasts, anyone who complains about that vehicle would be an entitled whiner cause they think cars should have brakes.

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

wtf was with the shrimp? what was that for?

Better we shrimp the videos, than let the videos shrimp us.

 

[TheSteeleStrap]

Good point. I also laughed so hard at the Raisin Bran.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

This episode could have been a lot worse.

...but I'm not sure if it could've been better. I also find that people who espouse the "it could be worse, so shut your trap and take another dick in the arse" attitude are usually the ones who piss and moan about "entitlement" when people air legitimate grievances about a particular game/business model/whatever.

As a person who see's an issue with entitlement among gamers, I resent that. People do throw that buzz word around a bit too much, but it is a problem in some cases.

When gamers chastise a developer about a game for being "consolised" or being dumbed down, arguing that the developers don't care about their franchise and fans that follow them, ignoring the fact that the "streamlining" is intended to make a game more accessible to people with less tolerance to inefficient/unwieldy designs, and that audience being just as entitled to the games as you (but not as patient with games as you) since they will pay for it with money that is of equal value to your own... . Ergo, Entitlement. Your investment is equal to theirs, you have no real ground to argue otherwise (beyond feeling entitled).

Complaining that a product you paid for does not meet your expectations is not entitlement. It is a legitimate consumer complaint. Other people being happy with it does not negate your issues with it. By your logic, if they developed a car with no brakes to make it more marketable to the reckless driving enthusiasts, anyone who complains about that vehicle would be an entitled whiner cause they think cars should have brakes.

Okay, Brakes on a car? Essential... no, mandatory. It would never be put on the market otherwise. Of course it would still work, but brakes are typically expected by the consumer, let alone necessary for safety reasons.

For games the equivalent of the above analogy would be releasing a game with missing audio files or textures. It will still work, but not as intended... the consumer knows audio and visuals are part of the experience therefore not getting what they paid for.

This is just a bad analogy.

A proper analogy of my point would be this:

A car that is sold with everything you need, but the floor matting or dashboard finish isn't what you expected it to be based off of pictures in the catalogue and your idle fancies (or maybe the car radio doesn't have enough nobs or too many nobs for your taste, but we'll stick to the finish analogy). You had no reason to think the finish would be better then that, you just hoped it would. So you complain to the manufacturer that you bought their car and that the finish wasn't what you hoped for and you demand a better finish. They will then laugh at you (actually they won't, they might offer condolences or a free coupon or something else petty and near worthless). Why? because their is a difference between what is on offer, and what is to be expected. By all means say what you want to say, shout it on the rooftops... but the most you can do is just that, voice your disapproval. You can't demand more then what was on offer... that is being entitled.

For games, the same thing. Just because you wished really hard for skyrim/mass effect/assassins creed/starcraft etc. to have certain things, the absence of them does not give you the right to demand them. You can complain and voice your displeasure, but you got was on offer. You are entitling yourself to something that wasn't on offer.

Now, if by chance something WAS offered but you didn't get? Yeah, you are owed it and make sure they know that... and make sure others know that.

In the end, your voice is in your wallet. That's all the industry will listen to. If you don't like what they do, don't fund it. That will come at a sacrifice for you however in the form of not playing their games (if you aren't a scumbag pirate)... the price for freedom and all that rhetoric.

EDIT: Actually, upon reflection YOU CAN play their games. Get them second hand... it's not illegal or morally reprehensible like EA would want you to think. They also don't get your support.

Know when to stand up for yourself and when not to make a show of yourself.

 

[Gatx]

Hilarious introduction, actually laughed. Also the episode was insightful, lots of good points, etc. etc.

 

[LilithSlave]

... you mean the contributors are actually reading our topics?

Oh! I feel so exposed! Don't look at me there!

I personally feel this message to be more poignant about the "Occupy x" protests than games. Even if one is making a point about games. This really resonates with me about all the times people have complained about problems in the United States or so forth, and met with "but even poor Americans are rich, stop whining like an emo teenager!". Don't complain because someone has it worse mentality, is sadly really common.

You think poverty in the United States is bad? What about the Africans?

You think that that's racist? This isn't Nazi Germany!

You think that's sexist? Try living in the Arab world!

No, that's horrible logic.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

one of your best jim, keep it up

 

[OZITOMAI]

i'm sorry, i stopped watching the video halfway through cause you guys are complaining 60 bucks!!!! fricken hell 60 bucks is what i rather pay 100 or over for games in australia, i have to get games shipped over from england that are 60 bucks or cheaper

 

[johnnnny guitar]

Hmmmm I see your argument Jim with prices (I live in Australia) but the way we can all fix that is to have the Good Old Games pricing where it's American currency and the dollar of your country is what affects the amount you pay but of course Steam,Xbox live, PSN and Origin would never do that cause they are fucking greedy (well except for steam the prices are set buy the publisher or something).

 

[ryo02]

Aww, sounds like someone had their feelings hurt that they were losing to EC.

Pfft. I'm too busy winning hearts to be winning polls!

well I think the Jimquisition and Extra credits should get together and make a baby ... hell throw some game overthinker in there too.

 

[Something Amyss]

So I've been known to fall to the whole "It could be worse, right?" mentality, but I also know that opposing this approach doesn't necessarily warrant some of the shit pulled off by the Mass Effect zealots, for instance. We have a right to ask for nice things, but we have to ask for these nice things in a reasonable and civil manner.

I'm sorry, who were the extremists here? What did they do?

 

[Custard_Angel]

Well I'm going to get on my high horse and complain that when Jim was talking about Australia ad posted an image of "starving children" he actually posted an Oxfam Australia ad for "Closing the gap" an Australian movement to "close the gap" in the education disparity between white indigenous Australians. Starvation is less of a concern here, and instead concerns like alcoholism, drug abuse, homelessness, poor health, no job prospects and widespread abuse of children (more of a problem in isolated communities) take precedence. So yeah... get told?

Also, Australians do have a right to complain about game prices because here a AAA title retails for ~$120. That includes no DLC, no special edition, no included bonuses. A stock standard vanilla game for $120. For no reason.

There is no possible way that a $60 game can accrue a further $60 of taxes and shipping costs. Especially in this day and age of mass transport and digital distribution. The Australian dollar is even outperforming the American dollar so exchange rates cant possibly affect anything.

Modern Warfare 3 is priced at $99AUD (~$103USD) on steam. That's $43 higher than US for a digital download. There is no excuse for that. Australia is just a gaming dead zone as far as the industry is concerned.

 

[mfeff]

Perhaps the thought process pervading some of the audience to this media, is that game sites, which sponsor journalism, have elements of bias and contamination pertaining the the financial aspect of the business. It's part n' parcel to the garbage business practices of some of the larger publishers. It's a business not a charity.

We look at Jim here, who states he wanted to do an episode with Konami... of course they shit in his face. He doesn't have a whole helluva' lot of material to work with here, other than... those douche-bags? They shit in my face. So that is what we get. Man has to make a living ffs, even if it is going to be just another opinion piece. Hell' I would like to see Jim interview people in publishing and development... ahhh wish in one hand...

As once said, "wars long done... where all just folk now", and in that we all by degrees have to dance to tunes that may not be or have been in our best interest or cater to our perception of integrity. That's life.

The EC Vs. Jim, really? They are both opinion leveraged series. Though, speaking for myself... I would treat Jim to a round and wouldn't piss on EC'n crew if they were on fire.

Jim makes me laugh (to spite myself sometimes), EC makes me face palm... because of spite... there IS a difference.

 

[Vault101]

jimquisition VS EC thread?

whooooaaaaa..breaking the 4th wall

 

[Something Amyss]

jimquisition VS EC thread?

whooooaaaaa..breaking the 4th wall

I think there has to BE a fourth wall before you can break it.

 

[Vault101]

Well I'm going to get on my high horse and complain that when Jim was talking about Australia ad posted an image of "starving children" he actually posted an Oxfam Australia ad for "Closing the gap" an Australian movement to "close the gap" in the education disparity between white indigenous Australians. Starvation is less of a concern here, and instead concerns like alcoholism, drug abuse, homelessness, poor health, no job prospects and widespread abuse of children (more of a problem in isolated communities) take precedence. So yeah... get told?

.

yeah..I found that odd..those kids arnt africans

the situation with the indigenous people is.....bad to say the least, its clear though all the handouts just don't work

 

[James Ennever]

What I want to know is if Jim just went out and bought that box of Raisin Bran to feature in the video, or if he really starts his days with two scoops of shriveled grapey goodness.

Same and no branston pickle, for shame.

thanks for mentioning my forum thread jim

 

[IamLEAM1983]

So I've been known to fall to the whole "It could be worse, right?" mentality, but I also know that opposing this approach doesn't necessarily warrant some of the shit pulled off by the Mass Effect zealots, for instance. We have a right to ask for nice things, but we have to ask for these nice things in a reasonable and civil manner.

I'm sorry, who were the extremists here? What did they do?

I was mostly referring to the FTC comaplaints and the whole cupcakes thing.

Granted, that's a personal opinion and I've talked at length about how I feel towards the whole Retake Mass Effect subject, but I really don't want to anger anyone else again. Also, I'm more than a little sick of the whole ending kerfuffle.

Trolling the devs or more or less counting on the opinion of a figure of authority who may or may not understand how game pitches are structured to prove that BioWare made false claims doesn't change the fact the property remains in EA and BioWare's hands, and that they alone have the power to choose how to handle the series' ending.

We all know where that ended, we all know what's coming this summer. A little DLC patch intended to clarify a few issues, and nothing else. That's it.

Also, I didn't exactly refer to "extremists". This was much more a case of people investing far too much time and effort into something that's ultimately trivial.

This isn't me trying to hijack the thread, this isn't me wanting to start a flame war. It's just my very personal and ultimately meaningless opinion. Seeing as this thread wasn't about Mass Effect 3, I'd appreciate it if any comments directed at me but unrelated to the video were limited to PMs.