Jimquisition: Creative Freedom, Strings Attached

[redknightalex]

Great subject this week, Jim. Everyone definitely gets to criticize someone's opinion/words -- hell, just turn on the news and all you get is criticism of some politician (or is that the definition of journalism?) -- although I think the problem with this particular issue is the defense that some will use for not including female characters. "Because it's my game" is perfectly valid but saying "I hate female characters!" when it isn't your game, you're just a player, is when things get weird and annoying. Yes, that's a gamer-to-gamer issue, not the creators, but some of the arguments here on the Escapist over this issue have certainly devolved into something no longer true to a original argument.

Even as a female gamer, it doesn't bother me to the extent that I cry foul at games because of it. I truly appreciated it when I can play as a female character, mainly in RPGs, but Saints Row deserves special mention for allowing me to do this easily. When it comes to action games I figure I won't even see a female NPC much less play as a female character. I'm hoping that as gaming becomes more mainstream (in the sense that having a female playable character is more the norm than not) things will begin to change.

However (see what I did there?) I want the game of the creator to be what I play, not something ham-fisted in. Like I said, I'm sure natural progress of society will affect video games enough to give creators the idea that, hey, having a female protagonist won't be the end of the world.

Or maybe the world will end. Waiting for the verdict on that.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

Why should a game be criticised or scrutinised simply because it doesn't have a female protagonist?

Why shouldn't it?

I think the perfect illustration of why it should be asked, and why the developer's response is a valid one, is the game Remember Me.

Early on the designers of that game settled on a female protagonist. As development went on they started to feel very strongly about that choice for personal reasons (they had written her that way and didn't want to change) as well as narrative ones (the story deals more with emotion and memory, rather than grunting space marines casually slaughtering waves of enemies). Yet, every publisher they were shopping the game around to asked them to change it to a male protagonist because it would be more marketable that way. The industry was attempting to FORCE THEM to use a male protagonist in that case, but luckily they found someone willing to work with them that didn't make such demands and the game released with the female protagonist that they had always intended.

So,in a game with a solely male protagonist, I think it's valid to ask "Why is this?" Was it because creator felt that they were telling a classic "boy's tale" style adventure, and thus the protagonist should be a boy? Was it something deeply personal, perhaps because it was inspired by the creator's male child? Or was it because a publisher simply demanded it and he was forced to bow to the pressure or not see his game get made? If it was the latter, and considering the Remember Me example this is not a far fetched idea, then that's something that should be talked about and perhaps support from the community could force the publisher to honor the original creative vision.

On the other hand though, I think that the creator had a good point. Why should a girl always play a girl, or a boy always play a boy? Even as a man I enjoyed Remember Me and got into the story of it's protagonist. In the Mass Effect series I have multiple playthroughs covering many different choices, including the gender of Commander Shepard. While my first playthrough was a Paragon MaleShep, by the last game my favorite playthrough had become my Renegade FemShep that was romancing Garrus. While that game did have a choice of gender so that I could play a character of my own gender, the best time I had with it was actually playing as FemShep due to (IMHO) Jennifer Hale's superior voice acting and the awesome additional scenes with my favorite Normandy crew member!

So yes, I don't think we should have all boys/men in games, we need that female perspective as well. Choice is great in this regard by allowing the player to choose their preference. At the same time though, always experiencing your own viewpoint isn't going to help you grow, so sometimes being forced into the opposite role is a GOOD thing. Still other times the very choice that allows you the potential to choose a gender that you identify with also gives you the opportunity to experience both perspectives on the story, thus allowing you to contrast the experiences of the same character through different lenses.

So, in short, choice is great and we need more of it, but that doesn't mean that the choice of a single viewpoint is invalid...so long as there is actually a reason behind beyond "Cuz it won't sell as well". We should continue to ask these questions and developers should continue to feel free to defend their choices without fear of judgement or reprisals from the community when you don't agree with them.

 

[ex275w]

I wonder how many people who are defending game developers like Hideo Kojima and saying, "It's their game! They can do what they want! They shouldn't have to change it! If you don't like it, don't play it!" also pitched a fit and demanded BioWare change the ending of Mass Effect 3.

I actually agree with both parts, as long as Bioware had controls over changing the ending on their terms.
Less: "It's a defective product and I want it fixed! I want my fan ending to be canon!"
More: "Bioware, the ending is shit, could you consider it making it less crap? Of course that's if you want to do it. Maybe consider it making it DLC since your game did end with you advertising future DLC."

 

[Dragonbums]

After PAX and what happened there, I think we can all agree that this needed to be said.

The Puppeteer game or the "review" of the 2DS?

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Hope ya feel better soon Jim. You don't just have God on your side. You got your fans too! ;D

This whole argument is similar to which came first, the chicken or the egg?

In the end, while I still think women have been left out of the spotlight as protagonists and that it's not a bad thing to question why not, I just feel as though it's going to become a redundant question. Sure, there will be the occasional answer of, "Producers made us" but there's gonna be a majority of answers that fall under, "I dunno, just felt right/fitting/reasonable/like what I wanted to do".

Don't force it, don't not do it for the sake of fear either.

1. The answer is the Egg.

2. You can't force it[sub](unless you blackmail/pay off the developers and publishers I guess)[/sub], but you can always ask them nicely.

Thank God for Jim.

That would depend if the question requires it to be a chicken egg, and how you define what a chicken egg is.

Ah. I see what you're saying.

Is a chicken egg an egg with a chicken in it, or an egg made by a chicken?

Though, isn't that really a different question?

 

[VanQ]

Why should a game be criticised or scrutinised simply because it doesn't have a female protagonist?

Why shouldn't it?

Because the gender of the protagonist may have no impact on the narrative or gameplay of the game in question. To use the example of Puppeteer, I'd wager the game would be no different in either its narrative or gameplay had the protagonist been female, though I haven't played the game, I'm working under the assumption that the protagonist's gender is of no importance outside of aesthetics.

We should not be encouraging people to criticize or scrutinize a work of art "just because." If there is in fact, good reason that a female protagonist would have made a significant positive impact upon the game in question, then fair game.

Not every game needs to be a progressive political statement. Let's not forget that.

 

[Something Amyss]

I think, quite honestly, picking a male hero is just the way most men think, and most game development teams are predominately men. They're men; they make games with male heroes. I don't think, for the most part, that there's any malice or agenda there... it's just the common "males are the de facto hero" stereotypes that are so fully ingrained in our minds and culture.

I remember reading some interviews with female Bioware team members who said that, ultimately, they got a bit tired of having to ask the question "but what if the player is female?" and having the men on the team having to actively remember that, yes, MaleShep wasn't the only gender, and male players weren't the only audience.

One would ask why this is so much of an issue specific to games, though. The disparity is still there in other media, but significantly greater here.

Personally, though, I'll admit that as a girl gamer I'm disappointed by GTA sticking to men only, especially when Saints Row is letting me be an amazingly awesome female gang lord.

Don't you mean gang lady?

>.>

Seriously, though, keep in mind that the Boss is a cookie-cutter character who still behaves pretty much entirely like the male version. GTA V's characters have already demonstrated more characterisation and the game isn't even out yet. Unless they RADICALLY changed in 4, The Boss at best says a couple throwaway lines outside of the story but otherwise still behaves the same way when the avatar is female. She hangs out at strip clubs and flirts with Shaundi (and has sex with chicks in 2) and treats Pierce like a "bro."

Now, that may be your idea of badass, and who am I to argue? Actually, I think it's pretty cool myself. But it's a one-size-fits-all deal that actually sounds like either nobody asked "what if it's a girl character" or the answer was "who cares?" She's kinda...Not even a woman, but a male character with boobs slapped on. And in a world like Saints Row, maybe that doesn't matter, but do we want that as the precedent?

 

[Weaver]

Unrelated to the episode really; but it looks like you've lost some weight, Jim!

 

[Thanatos2k]

There's two arguments being made in this episode and they're both right.

One, that creators don't need to answer to or be cowed into making what people want them to make due to political correctness and other such demands.

Second, that everyone has the right to criticize others over their words and decisions.

HOW-EVER

There is an undercurrent flowing through this discussion that these questions are somehow important issues and MUST be answered by every game maker who ever makes a game with a male character, that every game must have a choice of genders of their main characters - and it's getting out of control. They could remake a movie about Pinocchio and someone would ridiculously ask "Why not a girl puppet?" And GTA, GTA is a game about criminals. Have you seen the ratios of how many people in jail are men vs women? It's about a 10 to 1 ratio. Stands to believe most people in a story about criminals would be the same. It's not like there's no women in the entire game! Why do we have to bend so far out of reality to accommodate political correctness just because? Sometimes these questions DO deserve flippant responses.

Because after all, as this episode has taught us, just because you asked a question doesn't make your question above reproach and beyond criticism itself. That's what these game makers are doing with their responses - criticizing your questions as not worth answering.

 

[Something Amyss]

Why should a game be criticised or scrutinised simply because it doesn't have a female protagonist?

Why shouldn't it?

Because the gender of the protagonist may have no impact on the narrative or gameplay of the game in question. To use the example of Puppeteer, I'd wager the game would be no different in either its narrative or gameplay had the protagonist been female, though I haven't played the game, I'm working under the assumption that the protagonist's gender is of no importance outside of aesthetics.

We should not be encouraging people to criticize or scrutinize a work of art "just because." If there is in fact, good reason that a female protagonist would have made a significant positive impact upon the game in question, then fair game.

Not every game needs to be a progressive political statement. Let's not forget that.

You're not really making a persuasive argument against, though. Saying there's no impact on the gameplay should still spark in the critical mind the question that if it's so unimportant, why are so many of them dudes?

 

[TreuloseTomate]

This whole argument is similar to which came first, the chicken or the egg?

In the end, while I still think women have been left out of the spotlight as protagonists and that it's not a bad thing to question why not, I just feel as though it's going to become a redundant question. Sure, there will be the occasional answer of, "Producers made us" but there's gonna be a majority of answers that fall under, "I dunno, just felt right/fitting/reasonable/like what I wanted to do".

Don't force it, don't not do it for the sake of fear either.

I think, quite honestly, picking a male hero is just the way most men think, and most game development teams are predominately men. They're men; they make games with male heroes. I don't think, for the most part, that there's any malice or agenda there... it's just the common "males are the de facto hero" stereotypes that are so fully ingrained in our minds and culture.

I remember reading some interviews with female Bioware team members who said that, ultimately, they got a bit tired of having to ask the question "but what if the player is female?" and having the men on the team having to actively remember that, yes, MaleShep wasn't the only gender, and male players weren't the only audience.

It's basically innocent ignorance. Unless someone, like myself, asks a developer "well, what about me?" they won't remember or even consider heroes of the less-represented gender.

Personally, though, I'll admit that as a girl gamer I'm disappointed by GTA sticking to men only, especially when Saints Row is letting me be an amazingly awesome female gang lord.

The Best Show in the Universe agrees with you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpJGkG1g-Lk
Most games are about male protagonists because most developers are male.

 

[Something Amyss]

There is an undercurrent flowing through this discussion that these questions are somehow important issues and MUST be answered by every game maker who ever makes a game with a male character, that every game must have a choice of genders of their main characters - and it's getting out of control.

There really isn't such an undercurrent. However, I have to ask, why not? How would it be awful if people did get this? How awful would it be? I mean, an underlying option of choice in a narrative where it ostensibly makes no difference?

I find it odd that a lot of guys want modifiable avatars in gaming and it has no scrutiny, but when people want to add boobs it's suddenly a big deal and a political statement and worst of all, it's "out of control."

 

[Something Amyss]

Most games are about male protagonists because most developers are male.

So why doesn't that play out as significantly in Hollywood or print?

 

[Something Amyss]

After PAX and what happened there, I think we can all agree that this needed to be said.

The Puppeteer game or the "review" of the 2DS?

More than likely, Dickwolves 2: The Dickwolvening.

Although I've heard there was something else going on at PAX of controversial merit, Jim already referenced Mike Krahulik in his last Rhymedown spectacular.

 

[The Hungry Samurai]

Creative Freedom, Strings Attached

Freedom of expression is not freedom to express without challenge. A game is within its rights to include any content it does, but that content is not sacred.

Watch Video

I don't know anything about the Puppeteer but I can't help but feel you're a bit miffed at the developers response to the criticism.

I honestly wouldn't blame any creative mind for getting annoyed at someone if they insinuated that they had an inferior product, simply because they weren't addressing some sort of politically correct agenda.

Was The Puppeteer supposed to have a female character that was removed or changed? Is it intended to have a customizable character or a blank personality for the player to project themselves into?
If not then that choice is indeed sacred to the creator and the creator alone. When pre-existing fandom gets whitewashed or otherwise altered to make it more marketable most of the original the fans go apecrap. Why should a new story be subject to different rules?

We are free to criticize, but when the critics try to rewrite a persons product, the author should be free to call his critic an idiot.

 

[Goliath100]

To throw a wrench into this...

It's impossible for a playble character (when playable) to have a gender other than the players. The player is part of the playable character, and the physical absolutes that defines the genders are impossible to measure on virtual character. Than logic follows that what the player identify as define the gender of the playable character.

I'm calling bullshit on this one.

I know some people can only play a game when they feel like they are the character they are playing but I (and many others) don't work that way. I like to understand my character but I recognise that they are a separate entity.

I don't feel like I am Gordon Freeman in Half Life any more than I feel like Joel from The Last of Us. Not being female didn't stop me from understanding Nilin's story in Remember Me nor did it hinder me from feeling fear as Heather in Silent Hill 3. I play as females in Elder Scrolls games because I like to have a different experience and attempt to make choices I wouldn't normally.

OK, so I don't have the mind of a female and quite possibly I have no idea how one would react in given situations... but that doesn't mean I can't roleplay as my individual interpretation of a female within the confines of a game world.

I think you have taken the line: "It's impossible for a playable character (when playable) to have a gender other than the players." out of context. The point is that Gordon is female (at times), Joel is female (at times), Nilin is male (at times) and Heather is male (at times).

 

[Mahoshonen]

Jim,

You are now obligated to keep us up to date with the progress of your fantasy season. Whether things continue to go well or your divinely appointed team turns into a pile of crud, you have made it part of the narrative.

Otherwise good episode.

 

[Innegativeion]

Why should a game be criticised or scrutinised simply because it doesn't have a female protagonist?

Why shouldn't it?

Because the gender of the protagonist may have no impact on the narrative or gameplay of the game in question. To use the example of Puppeteer, I'd wager the game would be no different in either its narrative or gameplay had the protagonist been female, though I haven't played the game, I'm working under the assumption that the protagonist's gender is of no importance outside of aesthetics.

We should not be encouraging people to criticize or scrutinize a work of art "just because." If there is in fact, good reason that a female protagonist would have made a significant positive impact upon the game in question, then fair game.

Not every game needs to be a progressive political statement. Let's not forget that.

You're not really making a persuasive argument against, though. Saying there's no impact on the gameplay should still spark in the critical mind the question that if it's so unimportant, why are so many of them dudes?

I find it a bit unsound to be attacking specific developers for this sort of thing unless their games happen to be misogynist all around and in general. Like Jim said, the developers should have every right to choose what goes in their game.

And yes, people should have the right to question it, but,

I feel as though it's more like raging against the symptom rather than the disease. Puppeteer having a male protagonist, by my estimation, is due to male generally being the 'default'. Again, it's just a symptom. Unlike some games, it's really not disrespecting females in any way. Making a fuss over puppeteer saving money by including only one protagonist, and choosing a male one for a myriad of potential unknown reasons (perhaps artistic, perhaps marketing, perhaps because most of the developers were male) isn't going to make any huge waves in the push to make video games more female-inclusive. It's inconsequential, wasted effort if you ask me.

I dunno. It just seems silly, for a narrative-centric title like Puppeteer. I'm just musing.

 

[Thanatos2k]

There is an undercurrent flowing through this discussion that these questions are somehow important issues and MUST be answered by every game maker who ever makes a game with a male character, that every game must have a choice of genders of their main characters - and it's getting out of control.

There really isn't such an undercurrent. However, I have to ask, why not? How would it be awful if people did get this? How awful would it be? I mean, an underlying option of choice in a narrative where it ostensibly makes no difference?

I find it odd that a lot of guys want modifiable avatars in gaming and it has no scrutiny, but when people want to add boobs it's suddenly a big deal and a political statement and worst of all, it's "out of control."

If it makes no difference why do you care so much? Do you want actual female characters in the games or just something that looks female but acts androgynous? How does that help anyone?

 

[RoonMian]

After PAX and what happened there, I think we can all agree that this needed to be said.

What DID happen there?