Jimquisition: Creative Freedom, Strings Attached

[bug_of_war]

This whole argument is similar to which came first, the chicken or the egg?

In the end, while I still think women have been left out of the spotlight as protagonists and that it's not a bad thing to question why not, I just feel as though it's going to become a redundant question. Sure, there will be the occasional answer of, "Producers made us" but there's gonna be a majority of answers that fall under, "I dunno, just felt right/fitting/reasonable/like what I wanted to do".

Don't force it, don't not do it for the sake of fear either.

 

[Something Amyss]

I find the concept of not buying a game for not having your gender playable a bit weird but if that's what makes people happy

I personally liked this line I saw when perusing the God Mode boards on GameFAQs:

My feeling is that if they don't want to invest the effort to include my half of humanity, they apparently don't want my money enough.

Granted, God Mode shouldn't really make money anyway (bad, unfinished, buggy game), but the point seems fair enough.

Granted, she also talks specifically about characters you make yourself, which wouldn't include the Puppeteer argument.

In any event, if the maker feels so strongly about the "why should boys only play boys and girls only play girls" thing, he should try and make a strong protagonist and only allow female avatars. Wonder if he'd still make that stand.

whiteknighting

I think we've thoroughly beaten the term to death now.

No problem, glad you recorded anyway. Best wishes for you recovery.

He doesn't need your wishes, he has the fantasy football gods looking out for him.

if only more people understood that concept that freedom of expression doesn't mean freedom from criticism. it would alleviate a lot of frustration worldwide.

Unfortunately, human beings tend to have a persecution fetish.

To throw a wrench into this...

It's impossible for a playble character (when playable) to have a gender other than the players. The player is part of the playable character, and the physical absolutes that defines the genders are impossible to measure on virtual character. Than logic follows that what the player identify as define the gender of the playable character.

So you feel one cannot act the part of the opposite gender, then, simply because their perceptions may be coloured by their own.

 

[Erttheking]

Why should a game be criticised or scrutinised simply because it doesn't have a female protagonist?

I say the same reason a story should be criticized if it's about a man slaying a dragon to save a princess from a tower, or the same reason everyone gets on a game for being about a zombie apocalypse. It's been done so many times it's getting boring and generic, and nine times out of ten it doesn't have anything fresh or new to make it stand out or excuse the generic elements. Usually it's just more of the same dull boring stuff we've had an overload of. If a male character is extremely well written and I just love him (Lee Everett, Niko Belic, John Marstin, Jole, Yosuke, Kanji, Arcade Ganon, Boone) you won't hear a word from me about them being ANOTHER guy character because they're so well written their justify their existence. Most male characters don't.

 

[famousninja]

I personally think, that like a lot of things that seem to attract outrage in the gaming community, the use of different protagonists is like the use of cutscenes. You can use them well, and you can make them awesome and gel really well - Or they'll stand out as shoehorned in for the sake of reasons.

I don't think that adding a female character to a game constitutes censorship though - Anyone who says that is a few gunmen short of a grassy knoll, and really needs to reevaluate their relationship with women.

Just saying.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

Was that some exclusive GTA V content i just saw?

 

[Trishbot]

This whole argument is similar to which came first, the chicken or the egg?

In the end, while I still think women have been left out of the spotlight as protagonists and that it's not a bad thing to question why not, I just feel as though it's going to become a redundant question. Sure, there will be the occasional answer of, "Producers made us" but there's gonna be a majority of answers that fall under, "I dunno, just felt right/fitting/reasonable/like what I wanted to do".

Don't force it, don't not do it for the sake of fear either.

I think, quite honestly, picking a male hero is just the way most men think, and most game development teams are predominately men. They're men; they make games with male heroes. I don't think, for the most part, that there's any malice or agenda there... it's just the common "males are the de facto hero" stereotypes that are so fully ingrained in our minds and culture.

I remember reading some interviews with female Bioware team members who said that, ultimately, they got a bit tired of having to ask the question "but what if the player is female?" and having the men on the team having to actively remember that, yes, MaleShep wasn't the only gender, and male players weren't the only audience.

It's basically innocent ignorance. Unless someone, like myself, asks a developer "well, what about me?" they won't remember or even consider heroes of the less-represented gender.

Personally, though, I'll admit that as a girl gamer I'm disappointed by GTA sticking to men only, especially when Saints Row is letting me be an amazingly awesome female gang lord.

 

[Something Amyss]

Freedom of speech kinda includes freedom to criticize by its very nature, doesn't it? Yeah, you can say what you want, but so can everyone else, and that means they can criticize you and/or your work. Saying what you want, but denying other the right to criticize is something of a double standard, really.

It does, but it seems people need to be reminded of it, especially the ones who scream STOP PERSECUTING ME when questioned said speech.

 

[m19]

It's getting pretty damn surreal when people are being 'challenged' for things they didn't do creatively. At least when there is a sniper in a bikini it's something tangible someone actually made. Not to mention the spoken or implied accusations of misogyny.

 

[bdcjacko]

Why do I almost always have to play as a human, and if not a human, then a huminoid? I feel like there aren't enough games where I can play as a cat or dog. At least call of duty it getting it right.

Seriously, I am a human all day long, why should have to be a human in the games I play?

 

[Battle Catman]

I wonder how many people who are defending game developers like Hideo Kojima and saying, "It's their game! They can do what they want! They shouldn't have to change it! If you don't like it, don't play it!" also pitched a fit and demanded BioWare change the ending of Mass Effect 3.

 

[Goliath100]

To throw a wrench into this...

It's impossible for a playble character (when playable) to have a gender other than the players. The player is part of the playable character, and the physical absolutes that defines the genders are impossible to measure on virtual character. Than logic follows that what the player identify as define the gender of the playable character.

So you feel one cannot act the part of the opposite gender, then, simply because their perceptions may be coloured by their own.

No, I'm saying there is not a thing as a playable gendered character. Or at least be defined as non gendered.

 

[MorganL4]

Anyone else think that maybe Jim is just to lazy to thank God himself... So he asks us to do it for him?

 

[JohnHayne]

My question is: does freedom of speech encompass obligation of listening? That is, one is free to say what ever one wants, but does it means that I'm obligated to listen?

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Hope ya feel better soon Jim. You don't just have God on your side. You got your fans too! ;D

This whole argument is similar to which came first, the chicken or the egg?

In the end, while I still think women have been left out of the spotlight as protagonists and that it's not a bad thing to question why not, I just feel as though it's going to become a redundant question. Sure, there will be the occasional answer of, "Producers made us" but there's gonna be a majority of answers that fall under, "I dunno, just felt right/fitting/reasonable/like what I wanted to do".

Don't force it, don't not do it for the sake of fear either.

1. The answer is the Egg.

2. You can't force it[sub](unless you blackmail/pay off the developers and publishers I guess)[/sub], but you can always ask them nicely.

Thank God for Jim.

 

[Ukomba]

Freedom to support and ignore a product is fine and good, but that isn't really the issue. The issue is that a developer that is deemed not progressive enough in portraying a gender or what have you gets labeled a bigot. It's fine not to buy the Puppeteer, but it's crossing a line to go around calling them sexist or misogynist.

That's the main problem I have with the feminist frequency videos. It isn't that she's pointing out things that are over done or done poorly, it's that she can't wait to say things like 'patriarchy' or twist logic past the breaking point to declare it's objectification of women.

 

[ex275w]

The question reminds me of that Doom review where the reviewer asked why he couldn't talk to the demons. It looks silly, incredibly nitpicky, and out of place in a review, just as if that review asked why couldn't the Doom Marine be a woman. The question is also marred by having an underlying "agenda" to it. (Still it's a valid question about Doom, but I think there are more interesting things to talk about Doom)

The question does work when asking the creator about the design process or the creator explaining why he did or put X in the game. For example, the SMT IV team did plan to have a female protagonist but changed it and made the dynamics more similar to the first SMT game were the protagonist was a man.

 

[Jenvas1306]

Well, you gotta make a difference there depending on the type of game. In a jump'n'run the protargonist really isnt important and could be just a ball of goo (just dont call it gooboy or something), I doubt anyone would criticize the lack of a gender.
Now when it comes to rpgs then its clear that its easier to get into a role if its closer to you. Like I naturally create a fem shepard or hawke, because that just works better for me. Same goes for any mmorpg.
When I play saints row 3 and (hopefully) soon saints row 4 with my boyfriend, it would feel odd if either of us was forced to not play as the fitting gender.
There are also games where its weird for me when I'm playing a male protargonist (elizabeth needs my help to pull a lever? I doubt I'm much stronger than she is, but the brown-haired, white, 30ish guy im playing naturally is) yet I tolerate it as its necessary to define the PC to be able to tell a story like that (or just makes it way less of a fuzz...).
Its even easier to tolerate that when I know there are games like the new tomb raider, mirrors edge and remember me which turn that around.

I think it is necessary in the current state that we ask why the creators decided to give the protargonist the gender they gave him/her. making just another 30ish, white, male guy is really lazy and I'd prefer if they just run a random generator to get atleast some personality (random being better than bland to me).
But we have to ask in any case, not just when the decision was made to make the PC male: Making a female character just to make a female character is just as bad.

So in conclusion: some games dont need a gendered PC and it might be good to just dont give it a gender at all.
some games benefit a lot from giving the player the choice.
and some games need a more specified protargonist, which is alright if that doesnt automaticly mean hes gotta be male.

 

[Callate]

I'd say it bears note that that same freedom gives one the right not to address questions at all or to ignore them completely.

In sad fact, given the frequency with which creators' answers invite still more controversy, for many such a response might be the wiser choice. Sometimes the creators really haven't thought things through, or have serious and unsettling biases that come to light. But it's also true that sometimes the questioners aren't looking for answers so much as for attention- and having gotten that attention, they're only encouraged to scream all the louder.

Many people who make creative works that have attracted a significant amount of public attention could spend all their time answering questions if they started allowing themselves to do so, to the point that they might rarely or never actually create again.

To put something into the public sphere is unquestionably to invite criticism. But despite the quirks of the era, and the slew of blogs, social media, and 24-7 connectivity that come with them, a creator doesn't owe someone a response just because they happen to have a reaction to their creation. At times it would be unwise not to heed that criticism, but that remains very much up to the creator.

 

[Cybearg]

If I could offer an alternate suggestion: I think that the greater reason why there aren't as many female protagonists is because most game designers are males. Maybe this is self-perpetuating--males know how to write male protagonists, so not as many women get into gaming to become developers--but I don't think that's really the "fault" of games themselves.

If I made a game, I know that I would be more familiar with traits that exemplify being a male, as I am one, myself. Most who want more female protagonists don't want just males with a female skin--they want female characters who are written as females. Some may just not be comfortable/familiar with doing that.

And similarly, when more women enter the game development industry, I don't think it would be fair to demand that they write male characters if they really only feel comfortable/familiar writing female characters. Write what you know, as they say. That way, you don't get ridiculous characters that insult their gender.

 

[Ukomba]

Hope ya feel better soon Jim. You don't just have God on your side. You got your fans too! ;D

This whole argument is similar to which came first, the chicken or the egg?

In the end, while I still think women have been left out of the spotlight as protagonists and that it's not a bad thing to question why not, I just feel as though it's going to become a redundant question. Sure, there will be the occasional answer of, "Producers made us" but there's gonna be a majority of answers that fall under, "I dunno, just felt right/fitting/reasonable/like what I wanted to do".

Don't force it, don't not do it for the sake of fear either.

1. The answer is the Egg.

2. You can't force it[sub](unless you blackmail/pay off the developers and publishers I guess)[/sub], but you can always ask them nicely.

Thank God for Jim.

That would depend if the question requires it to be a chicken egg, and how you define what a chicken egg is.