Jimquisition: Defending Call of Duty

[mfeff]

Thanks for this video, its a refreshing mouthwash from the shit sandwich that was "gun myth" over at extra credits. COD still sucks though... Battlefield 3 for life!!!! (It's a gameplay/mechanic thing) you understand.

I have to ask, why does everyone hate on Extra Credits for being Un-Professional, or Not fun, or for any other shit reason I can't think of, whats so bad about them, their informing, and doing it well. Then people go on to defend Jim as a hardcore critic, but truly is acting like a 19 year old, who thinks they know everything, anytime and anywhere.

Well when one says "everyone" that implies that well "every single person" hates on Extra Credits... and to fully answer your question I must explain that I have been watching Yahtzee and Movie Bob since they came to the escapist, and as such only recently branched out to the other video series offered here (I followed them to the escapist).

To give this some context, having of watched all the Extra Credit videos I will state that for the most part I found them informing, and insightful, as you have said. Mind you, my professional interest in video games has been in retail (brief stent at Gamestop middle/upper management). As a hobby a moddest modder with simulation (typically) being what I play... although I have owned (I think) every video game system that has ever been commercially available. As far as programming, my only working experience (as a programmer/designer) is the guidance systems for military equipment (hard and soft design) which is well, very similar to game design. Beyond that I hold several federal licenses concerning the construction and maintenance of civil and military equipment.

Specifically my issue is the EC video "myth of the gun", which too me, was the worst type of video I would normally relegate to the YouTube amateur hour, and for a couple of reasons. My experience with the subject matter concerning military equipment and military service, as well as, "Japanization" go far beyond what EC (green shirt guy) has credible experience with. I did not want to pre-judge anything in the video. However, there were just to many correlation's presented that do not stand up to inspection or utility of correlation, and just as you said about Jim, EC this time around, and in this video, were on the slippery slope of opinion being presented as fact.

In Jim's defense (and I have only watched 2 of his video's, this one being 1 of the 2) he states several times that this is "his opinion", and that gives him some wiggle room in the realm of subjectivity. Thats the beauty of being a critic on the front end. The only limited defense I would afford Jim is that he strikes me as looking for his "voice", as an actor or mass communications /drama major/professional. To say 'thats really Jim' would be somewhat missing the mark I would think. As a professional "hard core" critic? No, I am not obliged to agree with that statement. A good game critic is like a Foodie on Iron Chef, they must know a LOT about the subject matter, and perhaps cook, to properly act or be accepted as peer review... this is often missing from reviews and review sites, beyond that is simply taste and learning if a critic has the same taste as yourself. Try to bear in mind that 'knowing a lot' and 'being a know it all' are two very different things.

Much of the information presented in the EC video was either 'tag line' non sequitur or factually inaccurate. This was unfortunate, simply due to the fact that EC is generally, pretty good at what they do. It was to me an F performance (and I am not the only one that pointed this out), from a series that before that video had not done worse than a C+ / B- before. I suspect that the reason for this was that James was not involved with the video, and green shirt kid, was left holding the bag and needed to meet a deadline. Baring that my next argument is that he (green shirt) does not have a very good grasp of the information that is in front of him, and rather than doing any real research scrambled for some 'wiki links' to cover his ass, and it came off very white bread middle class weeaboo to me (urban slang) or Oriental-ism considering the context of the video, though to be fair, falls somewhere in between.

If the next EC video is that poor, I won't be watching it anymore in the future, so it won't be my problem. As far as Jim is concerned, I don't see myself going out of my way to watch him yet, not in the same way that I drink afternoon coffee with the excitement of watching Yahtzee every Wednesday, and too a slightly lessor extent Bob. I am obviously not in high school so high school opinion does not carry the weight that it perhaps does with others... its a matter of target audience, and EC missed it with me.

Now, look again at my comment, I said mouthwash...

Do you keep mouthwash in your mouth all day? Do you drink it?

No, no...

What it was, (this video), was decent, and honest, honestly refreshing coming off EC's dribble, and in many ways far superior to the other video I have watched of his. It's still mouthwash, hardly a good wine but it's getting there, the kid has some talent.

 

[Thespian]

Once again, Jim Sterling proves to present his thoughts on a Problem that has been addressed several times before and far more elegantly, and attempts to make himself look smart by impersonating the imaginary people who disagree with him and making them look dumb. Admirably, he does all of this without an ounce of charm, wit, humour or class and simultaneously demonstrates his ability to talk about a topic for six minutes and say absolutely nothing helpful about it or any other issue in the world.

Bravo, Jim.

And for the record, I thought the stance most people took was "CoD is bad because I don't really like it." which is perfectly valid. In casual discussion,you don't have to give a reason for why you don't like something, it's opinion. The point isn't that ALL COD PLAYERS ARE FOULMOUTHED LITTLE KIDS it's that CoD, in addition to hordes of nice, regular people, attracts quite a lot of foul-mouthed little kids and other unpleasant players. Nothing wrong with saying that either.
I have to say though, if there is anything that could diminish my thoughts of CoD players (seeing as I have nothing against the series or it's fans, I just never got into it) it's that Jim Sterling counts himself among them.

 

[Woodsey]

... I actually agree with him, so much.

I especially like his making fun of the abnoxious pricks who say it's bad because it's not art.

Obnoxious*, and those people come about because the majority settle for what they're given.

Its like the whole anti-intellectualism thing you get here (and moreso in the States it seems, given FOX news and their audience size). Try and move away from the lowest common denominator - and that is what Call of Duty aims for, and no that is not me saying everyone who plays it is stupid - and you're pretentious.

 

[Mad1Cow]

I'd like to point out, he's trying to defend a demographic stereotype by slagging off another...double standards much?

For the inobservant, he's defending CoD players who are deemed 12 year old violents pricks by saying that's only a vocal minority and on the whole, yes that is true (shame I always get stuck with them though ¬_¬) HOWEVER he is attacking the "Games is Art" group, or not really attacking but, ya know, he isn't improving our reputation. It's that ignorant attitude that REALLY turns me off this show. Maybe if he made fun of catholic mothers scared of their children's innocence being lost to a video game I'd have laughed...

 

[AmosRD]

My problem with COD is the mutiplayer I quite enjoy the single player but i find mutiplayer gets old very quickly i get near to the 1st pestige and then give up. i dont know why but just seems that ive had anuff and it gets boring.
(and to be fair the best part of COD is zombies!)

 

[messy]

My personally favourite so far, I think you do serious better then funny.

 

[kroldok]

I had to look up both hyperbole and strawman to understand these points, and found this on Wikipedia:

"Hyperbole ('exaggeration') is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally".

The portions highlighted (by me) pretty much sum this up for me.


"The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:
1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially similar position Y. Thus, Y is a resulting distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:
a. Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position.
b. Quoting an opponent's words out of context ? i.e. choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions (see contextomy and quote mining).[2]
c. Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments ? thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[1]
d. Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.
3. Person B attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.

The section highlighted (again by me) seems to be what Jim is doing, however most posts here seem to assume that the "group" being targeted are 'Artsy Gamers', when in actuality what the 'Strawman' says is:
"What on earth are you talking about I understand that videogames are supposed to be art and Call of Duty could never be art"
What I get from this statemen by the strawman character is that he feels it is in his right to put down anyone who chooses CoD as a form of entertainment.
The strawman argues that CoD could never be art witch is basically the Ebert approach, the 'target' seems to me to be elitists that demand their standars be applied to the idea and concept of art, and damn all else, and this is a point worth arguing with, I get to choose my entertainment for myself, and if I want to skip the Sydney opera house in favor of my computer, I should be allowed to do so, witch is also true if i want to skip Braid in favor of CoD.

The only time Jim mentions 'Artsy' in this clip is the following quote:
"Even at it's most ludicrous the CoD series delivers it's story with enough style and confidence to make it work, there's even quite a bit of commentary on the nature of war hidden underneath for those artsy types who need a story with a message, yes on the surface it's popcorn-munching action story but there is more beneath there, about how modern warfare can be shockingly dissaffecting"

To extrapolate 'Artsy gamers are morons' from this statement and subsequently attack Jim is in itself quite a 'strawman' thing to do, as he never states that 'Artsy' is bad, he merely points out that there is a level of enjoyment beyond Bang-Whizz-Shooty-Fun if you feel you want to go deeper, witch is not to say that you have to, but to use the Bang-Whizz-Shooty-Fun part as an argument for CoD being "not art" is to underrate the artistic value of the product, much like you would if you were to state that "Saving Private Ryan" or "Band of Brothers" is less worthy of being called art than say "Philadelphia" because a story about AIDS has more artistic value than a story about war.

 

[Legion]

Speaking as someone who has never played, or had any desire to play COD I can say that the people who hate COD and those that play it are usually more annoying than the fans. Especially whenever a game company does anything that even slightly resembles a feature in the series and they say "Stop trying to be like COD" (as an insult).

 

[Captain_M]

All I gotta say is in the NES days I used to play Mario, Mega Man, Tetris, Mickey Mouse and Mappy and I used to avoid Contra, Metal Gear etc. They were war games and I never felt the need to represent myself as a soldier. Growing up, I know now that they were vastly more complex then I gave them credit for. However, my gaming tastes haven't changed and I still play Mario, Mega Man, Tetris, Mickey Mouse and Mappy. At some point I threw in the Valve library, but generally, I'm still avoiding those war games. They just don't represent an aesthetic I enjoy interacting with.

The first time I ever played COD was at a fundraising event this past Saturday, and ironically, the first multiplayer campaign I played was the Zombie add-in pack. I didn't see anything wrong with it. I compared it in my mind to Wolfenstein. That's how far and above a game like COD has to do to make it appealing to me, is that it has to dress up like a fleet of zombie nazis.

 

[theultimateend]

I think COD is a great franchise and its recognition is well deserved for the most part. Personally, it has become a case of 'too much of a good thing' with the annual release schedule; COD has become stale for me and not through any lack of quality.

I'm speaking on the general level.

Basically there is rarely (if ever) a series of niche qualities that something carries into the extreme mainstream.

Sacrifices are made to become hyper popular and these sacrifices become emulated by all competition hoping for a piece of the pie. Effectively people hate games that do this because they know that titles they like will invariably suffer for it.

COD is fine, I played through Modern Warfare (the original), it wasn't exceptional to me in any way but I could see how some folks would find it good. It's just that it did nothing that I hadn't really seen before and what it did do I felt I had seen done better (maybe not visually).

Speaking as someone who has never played, or had any desire to play COD I can say that the people who hate COD and those that play it are usually more annoying than the fans. Especially whenever a game company does anything that even slightly resembles a feature in the series and they say "Stop trying to be like COD" (as an insult).

Which goes hand in hand with my above point.

I don't think the problem is worth the energy but there is a method to that madness you are observing.

Also by necessity you are less likely to be in contact with pro-COD people if you don't play the games. That's where they are, playing the game.

 

[Ukomba]

He seems awfully but sore over this.

He's not sore, he is just tired of people ragging on call of duty for no good reason. If people were talking crap about the games you like, I'm sure you would be doing the same. Besides, he was being calm and his points were valid for what he was trying to say.

People do and I haven't. I quite liked FF8 and didn't feel the need to make a video ranting about Spoony for hating it, or go off on Yahtzee for insulting all JRPG regularly. Some games just aren't for some people.

How would this even come up? You only ever interact with Other people who like Call of Duty while playing it, and it's not like you have a big sticker on your head saying you like it. The problem I have with this video is he's essentially arguing with internet Trolls, and where's the point in that?

 

[standokan]

I really like the song, but that's about it I guess.

 

[Look-a-Hill]

For a topic that's about people dislike something popular, it's interesting that I'm liking Jim more and more with every person that's getting upset with him.
That said the series has been improving week by week. It's gone from Poor-Man's-Charlie Brooker to decent satire in my view.

It's also interesting the amount of 'blur blur he's immature... blur blur he's vulgar... blur blur he's antagonistic' criticisms he's getting. Doesn't make sense given the amount of mouths that would be around Yahtzee's penis if he ever unzipped and offered it out to the world.

 

[Gentleman_Reptile]

I still dont find this guy funny.

 

[Jonny49]

Linearity in FPS games existed way, WAY before COD came along.
Halo
Quake, Medal of Honour, Counter-Strike, Doom, The original Team Fortress ect...
Halo.

OT: It's good to see someone defend CoD for a change. As long as it's good, I'll keep buying it.

yes Linearity has been in FPS before COD. But some people think that COD was the one that made it so that all FPS are linear these days

you mean Halo 2. the first Halo had shield and medpack


........................................................................................................................are you saying that Quake and Doom put more time into it's MP then SP ?

do you have any fucking idea of what you are talking about?

CS is a MP only game why the hell is that on the list? and I assume you mean the new Medal of Honour

Then why is COD to blame at all? "Everyone thinks COD did it, that means it's COD's fault". That's like saying everyone thinks Person A murdered Person B, that means Person A must be responsible!!

Yeah, Halo 2. I was just generalising.

No, what I am saying is that (especially in Quake's case) multiplayer is the only thing they are remembered for. They have campaigns, as does CoD, good ones too. It's just multiplayer happens to be the one thing everyone knows CoD for. For better or worse.

I'm at fault by missing one of your points, I was referring to Quake, Counter Strike, Doom ect when I was talking about graphics being brown and overall ugly, also I was referring to the original MoH. And that point still stands.

 

[theultimateend]

Some games just aren't for some people.

In terms of gaming generations my favorite period of life was between SNES and Playstation where this was a strong piece of the design. It existed before that but I really hit my stride around that time.

You are out to make something fun and inventive, it might not sell 400 million copies, but it'll be genuinely interesting.

I can only assume that the extreme graphics fetish is what lead to the requirement for millions of sales.

 

[l3o2828]

dipping back into mediocrity i see!....*sigh*

 

[drunken_munki]

The reason why COD sucks is because Activision *IS* running it into to the ground, starting from MW2 by removing dedicated servers. As far as I am concerned it got 50 times worse in BLOPS. Bugs, poor lobby system, basic match maker. More bugs. Ridiculous map pack prices, no way to get user maps. Yep. It's shit.

So, basically, they (Activision) won't see a penny from me from a long goddam time.

Otherwise, great episode Jim!

*Edit* To see what I am talking about look at steam stats = http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

Counter strike 1.6 most played game, then CS Source, somewhere on there is MW2 and then after that is BLOPS. The end.

 

[Scrustle]

Didn't really agree with this episode much. Some points I agree with or can't really comment on but personally the reasons I object to CoD is because it's DULL. It's generic and repetitive and the archetype of this whole grey/brown theme dominating this current generation. I guess that's mostly subjective, but it's still a valid reason to dislike something because you find the content uninteresting. I've never been interested in this kind of gun worship and military romanticizing from these types of games, and personally think it to be immature.

But probably the reason I dislike CoD most is just the whole ethos around it. The way it's marketed and the way people act when a new CoD game is released. They shove it down my throat 24/7 and the release numbers even get in to the news for God sake! Every single year everyone acts like it's the second coming... for the forth time. I can't stand it.

And I think there is a valid case for popular=shit. There is often a reason why something is popular. Because that said thing has been dumbed down and diluted to appeal to a wider audience. So if you really want to find something that best suits your taste in whatever you are in to it most likely won't be the most popular thing.

Also I have friends who play CoD, and whenever they play it all that I have ever heard from them is frustration and disappointment. If something does that to people who even apparently "enjoy" the game then how good can it be?

 

[hawkeye52]

snip

wow im actually impressed that someone decided to read it all.