Jimquisition: Desensitized to Violence

[Ilikemilkshake]

All I can say is thank you Jim for fighting to get that clip included. It makes a strong point.
Kudos to the Escapist for actually running with it.

 

[Bvenged]

I've seen people die in news and unfunny internet videos I regret watching, but never something so close-up. They often shock me a little, but this has pitted my stomach.

I've put hundreds of thousands of hours into slaughtering digital representations of living things in games for years, as has most gamers.

I have murdered tens of thousands of AI representing humans and sent entire civilisations to their doom.

I have deprived my sims of a ladder to a swimming pool and watched them drown, and I've slaughtered countless digital animals for fetch-quests in MMO's.

I have burned entire cities to the ground from a god-like position over the world, and I have been happy to defeat real humans in a digital deathmatch for sport.

Fallout 3 and Sniper Elite 1 and V2 are just 3 of many games I really, really enjoy - whose graphical representations of death entertain me.

And yet I have never, ever, ever felt the turn in my stomach like I did when I saw that clip. Of the man shooting himself in the head. That real man, who had a real life, put a bullet in his own head. I didn't even know he'd done it until I saw the blood pouring out of his face. It is one of the most unpleasant emotions I think I've felt. I'm not sad, but shocked. Maybe even distressed a little. Sure, the quality's not great, but I know what happened there, and that what I watched was real. That is a feeling no game has ever given me before, or ever will, and it is one I do not want to experience again.

 

[AstylahAthrys]

I forced myself to watch it to prove a point. I really, really shouldn't have. I knew I wouldn't like it, but that was pretty bad.

I could be the poster child for game violence doesn't cause real violence. I was disturbed by a fist fight that broke out at my high school once. That? I'm going to take some time to recover from that. Still, I really appreciate Jim posting this video. It's super insightful, and really points out that I, and likely most gamers, view the violence in games like a Tom and Jerry cartoon- completely unrealistic and absolutely fake.

 

[abell]

The last paragraph about games seems to be mostly assumptions. Personally I would never touch a gun.

There can't be a study that could really show that, due to ethics standards. For example, you know the Millgram experiment (people told to shock someone, actor pretends to die, etc)? That was incredibly unethical, and you couldn't get funding to do anything like that. You'd need to either kill someone, or imitate killing them, trained by videogames and with actual guns, which you cannot do. Period. Would never get past the ethics committee. Notice, all the evidence cited above comes in the wake of wars. So, like most of psychology, and a lot of science, you are left with assumption. I personally believe that videogames are less effective at training than military training, for a variety of reasons, mostly about real world experience, recoil, jams, etc., but, I see no reason not to believe that the same qualities that made the one so much more efficient wouldn't be present in the other, even if to a lesser degree.

Also, why would you never touch a gun?

 

[RJ 17]

Yeah, gotta say....that was pretty fucked up.

As was the point of this video: I found that to be vastly more disturbing than even the goriest, most gratuitous deaths in any game I've ever played.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

I find the movie sad but it didn't shock or really disturb me...I'm wondering if I should be worried about that.

Same here. I was just kinda like 'well... that was fairly bloodless, oh wait there it is. So that is what suicide looks like? Pretty clean way to go. Didn't look painful, thats nice." then he talked about how disturbed people were when they saw it and I just kinda felt... crappy. I guess I will have to rely on myself being a rational, morally, reasonable person to stop me from murdering people, instead of revulsion.

 

[Yureina]

Unpleasant, though part of what is bothering me is that that video clip didn't really phase me because of the violence itself. But... at the same time I am not too surprised. It's very rare that I react to events, even extreme ones like violence, that occur around me. Also with the age verification, the bold text saying there would be graphic content in the video, and Jim's own warnings right before the clip played, that probably ended up giving me some mental preparation for what was coming. I found myself more saddened when after the video I looked up that guy and learned why he decided to off himself.

Very good argument though. One of the better Jimquisition episodes i've seen.

 

[Murmillos]

I agree with Jim at the end, tho I am a bit miffed that he doesn't put a kind of knowledge disclaimer that "fixing" the Media won't solve "every" mass shooting, it will should very well limit many of them.
If you read up on the last thing of many of these people wrote, they wanted to make a message, they wanted to be known, they wanted to be remembered. And the massive coverage that these type of events give, upwards to 75% of the on-air time attention and focus is on who the shooter was.. what drove the shooter.. etc.etc, we get this endless cycle of people who are ultimately very troubled, see Media as a beacon of strength to commit these acts.

 

[Cavouku]

The shooting itself really didn't hit me. I'll admit, it wasn't what I expected. I was anticipating him shutting everyone up, to say something short and sweet, a very loud pop, some splatter. That 'overblown' sense of violence again. The real thing 'failed to impress', but I think that's good, rather than bad. I've never been sensitive to violence though, so that's not fault of the video.

...Well, one time. My dog stepped on a rat that had gotten into the house. It's spine was broken, but it was still alive, just barely. It was crawling around just using its front paws, back ones paralyzed. We all wanted to put it out of its misery, but... nobody could. Not my mother, not her boyfriend, his son, and not me. I felt bad because I couldn't offer that mercy, but... I couldn't stand to watch it, let alone kill it. We put it in a cage, and by the morning it was done...

While it'd be easy for me to say that I'm just more sensitive to animal cruelty over human death, especially suicide, I don't think that's it. I think it was that the video was not something I could do anything about, and I accepted that long before it even really started. My heart went out to those who felt the pain, but I couldn't personally feel trauma. But the rat... was right in front of me, in that suffering. Even under the guise that my act would have been the merciful, just one... there was no way I could do that.

If I were asked to do it now, I still wouldn't, though this is more for philosophy. While I would doubtfully ever be in such a position, I would not wish to taint someone's hands by having them kill me, even in the deepest of my agonies. I wouldn't want to kill myself either, even in this situation, though trauma drives one deeper than they're comfortable with. I hope I never have to experience it, but I worry that others won't understand. To that, escapists, I say; please do not ask me to kill you in your agony. That is something I do not believe I can do.

And please... don't be upset if I look away.

 

[DataSnake]

I don't usually comment videos but when I do I type something like this:

Jim, don't go into that fucked up territory of "any sane civilian should be afraid of guns." As a gamer and a gun enthusiast I am sick and tired of both sides trying to stomp one another. Gun nuts claiming that those so called violent video games cause the trouble and gamers suggesting that something's wrong with owning a firearm when being a civilian. This benefits no one, it only makes the valid points of discussion seem a bit less valid when mangled together with sich crap. I post same things every time someone from the gun community suggests that maybe "they" should look into that videogaming thing instead of guns owned by law abiding citizens. Of all the places containing gaming related opinions Jimquisition is least suitable for containing invalid arguments.

No, a civilian should DEFINITELY be scared of guns. My dad grew up on an Army base, and one of the first things they taught him was the rules for handling guns:
1. It's always loaded, even when you're sure it isn't
2. Don't point a gun at someone unless you intend to shoot them
This was, I remind you, an ARMY BASE. The MILITARY recognizes that guns aren't toys and should be handled with caution, and frankly I'd expect them to know as much on the subject as anyone.

 

[Valkrex]

I wasn't really put off when I saw the age gate, as I've seen some pretty crazy stuff during my time on the internet. But holy shit. Just hooooly shit. I was NOT prepared to see a guy kill himself. I almost got sick. I AM glad that Jim put that footage in though as it did a brilliant job of illustrating his point.

Thanks for being awesome Jim, and congrats on another great episode.

 

[UNHchabo]

I don't usually comment videos but when I do I type something like this:

Jim, don't go into that fucked up territory of "any sane civilian should be afraid of guns." As a gamer and a gun enthusiast I am sick and tired of both sides trying to stomp one another. Gun nuts claiming that those so called violent video games cause the trouble and gamers suggesting that something's wrong with owning a firearm when being a civilian. This benefits no one, it only makes the valid points of discussion seem a bit less valid when mangled together with sich crap. I post same things every time someone from the gun community suggests that maybe "they" should look into that videogaming thing instead of guns owned by law abiding citizens. Of all the places containing gaming related opinions Jimquisition is least suitable for containing invalid arguments.

No, a civilian should DEFINITELY be scared of guns. My dad grew up on an Army base, and one of the first things they taught him was the rules for handling guns:
1. It's always loaded, even when you're sure it isn't
2. Don't point a gun at someone unless you intend to shoot them
This was, I remind you, an ARMY BASE. The MILITARY recognizes that guns aren't toys and should be handled with caution, and frankly I'd expect them to know as much on the subject as anyone.

There's a difference between "handled with caution" and "terrified of". The vast majority of gun owners are responsible, and handle them properly, precisely because they handle them with caution. But there's no fear involved, once you're competent with handling them.

 

[J. MB]

Because I've seen A LOT of violent stuff on the internet already (including this video in higher quality), I didn't react to this video. But the first time I saw any of this stuff, I had the same reaction a lot of you have. The feeling in your stomach, it's kind of like a sick feeling but not quite.

Now anything violent in games or any other media just makes me laugh if anything because I know exactly how far away it is from the real thing, it's, as Jim said, a parody. It's silly stuff, and it will not desensitize you to violence. I'm sure I wouldn't be so casual about seeing any of this in real life, though I would probably be able to handle it a bit better. Who knows.

Great video, Jim!

 

[JaredXE]

I guess I am a bad person. I was not shocked, and even went "Cool" when I saw the footage. Then again, I am pretty pro-death in the first place, so this is definitely not due to desensitization from media.

 

[sammysoso]

Wow...I almost vomited when I saw the suicide, but I am glad that I stomached through it. Real life violence is almost always detestable, and using video games as a scapegoat is just disgusting.

This might be the best Jimquisition that you've ever done. I'm glad The Escapist let you do this.

 

[Bocaj2000]

Now I've almost never commented on a video on the escapist before. Hell I forgot I even had an account here until I tried to make one and found the name was taken. But I wanted to speak up here.

I watched the video and, seeing the warning of content, decided to watch it. I've never seen the video before, never heard of the event, or anything, and after watching it I had only one reaction...

"...that's it?"

Now before you start calling me heartless or evil or anything like that... I'm not. Or at least I try not to be. I care about others and so forth, but when I saw that video... it felt to me like the violence shown was no worse than what you'd see in some movies. A man holds a gun to his mouth, suddenly he drops with a pop and the camera loses track of him, and when you next see him he's on the ground, staring blankly, a few moments passing before blood starts dripping down his face.

That sounds exactly like a dramatic moment you'd see in a movie, and that's what I thought.

It has admittedly left me wondering what kind of person I am though, and if I've really become more jaded to some things than I thought I was. Why didn't I react? Why did I see it and just think "What, that's all?"? Is it because he fell and the actual moment of death wasn't seen? Was it because it appeared to be relatively clean and there weren't guts all over the place? Was it because I saw it as a videoclip instead of actually in person? Was it because of games AND movies desensitizing me or making me jaded with over-the-top things?

I have no idea. And I'm not saying Videogames cause violence either, just like Rock and Roll didn't cause satanism way back when. But when the media as a whole may have left me jaded and/or desensitized to that videoclip... it does leave me wondering...

...what does it say about me?

You're desensitized. It's that simple. Not in a sociopath way like the media puts it but in other ways. You were probably expecting a lot more than what was actually shown such as the things you see on 4chan.

However, sensitivity to death fluctuates. By the way you described your situation, that video wasn't "real" to you. Now you know that it happened and that it is true. But the reality- the weight- of the situation didn't kick in. This has several reasons. The primary reason is that you have a huge disconnect to the situation on a personal level. You are siting behind a screen watching the suicide of someone you don't know. You immediately compared it to a movie and makeup instead of accepting it as the death of celebrity.

You also mentioned that it wasn't gory, and therefore not that shocking. In a sense, I see how you feel. It didn't "click" for me until I saw the stream of blood pour out of his nose. It was that bit of subtlety that I saw the weight of the situation. If it was a gore filled mess of brain and skull, I don't think it would have the same effect.

So, yes, you are desensitized. You'll grow out of it though.

 

[abell]

snip

What you're talking about isn't so much the reinforced behaviour making it easier for people to take a life, but for them to get into a state where they disassociate themselves from reality.

Sure, I'm willing to agree with that. After all, how you phrase it doesn't matter if someone ends up dead. It actually works better when considering the dissociative state that those mass killers that actually survive police, or their own weapons, seem to be in. And I agree that a videogame is no substitute for real world training. I said as much in a followup post. But, less effective than actual training does not mean not effective. And it's more available than a gun is for a lot of these individuals.