Jimquisition: Desensitized to Violence
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
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This is 100% correct.RC1138 said:
This effect is the reason that the Army started using human shaped targets at ranges after WW2 instead of the round bullseyes they used before and during the war. Studies after the war revealed that a very large number of infantry riflemen were either intentionally missing their targets or not firing their weapons at all. It turns out that a properly wired human has a natural aversion to harming and killing their fellow human beings.
While these guys may have been crack shots on the rifle range, they had never fired at anything remotely human. After WW2 the Army went to silouette targets and eventually the more human torso like dummy targets and by Vietnam, they found that the natural predisposition to freeze rather than fire had vanished.
I can't help but figure that games like COD and Battlefield would do the same thing. They don't make you violent or make you a killer, they just take some walls down and make it so you could more easily deal with killing if you find yourself in that situation.
Oh and RC1138, thank you for your service to your country.
Agreed with the video, but I do think video games should be more regulated for kids. I don't think 10 year old's should be able to buy/play Call of Duty games, for the same reason why they shouldn't watch R rated horror movies and porn. The average gamer isn't 10 year anymore like they were in the 80's and early 90's, they're in their late 20's so not allowing kids to buy games who don't meet the age requirement on the box isn't going to break the market like game publishers want you to believe.
Keep in mined this has nothing to do with the school shootings, I had this opinion long before. If the US spent half as much time regulating gun control, as it does making excuses to not have gun control gun deaths would go down dramatically. You put regulations and strict penalties on drunk drivers as well as the people that sell alcohol to drunk drivers (i.e bar tenders) and it has drastically decreased the accidents involving Drunk Drivers, why not use a little of that common sense with gun regulation?
There are lots of country that sell/ buy violent video games and movies and don't have half as much gun violence as the US, why because they have gun regulations, there is no reason why anyone (outside the army) should own an automatic weapon, in Canada we can't even own a hand gun without jumping through hoops and you know what that's the way it should be, you don't need to walk down town or be on a bus with a hand gun.
Keep in mined this has nothing to do with the school shootings, I had this opinion long before. If the US spent half as much time regulating gun control, as it does making excuses to not have gun control gun deaths would go down dramatically. You put regulations and strict penalties on drunk drivers as well as the people that sell alcohol to drunk drivers (i.e bar tenders) and it has drastically decreased the accidents involving Drunk Drivers, why not use a little of that common sense with gun regulation?
There are lots of country that sell/ buy violent video games and movies and don't have half as much gun violence as the US, why because they have gun regulations, there is no reason why anyone (outside the army) should own an automatic weapon, in Canada we can't even own a hand gun without jumping through hoops and you know what that's the way it should be, you don't need to walk down town or be on a bus with a hand gun.
I won't lie, it didn't bother me. What I thought was most unfortunate is that he obviously wanted to say something but everyone started screaming and carrying on. He realised they wouldn't let him finish so he did the deed before anyone could stop him. I mean fucking hell, give the guy his last words.
There is literally no evidence to suggest that violent video games make violent people.triggrhappy94 said:
It's a boogieman that was invented for basically the reasons Jim pointed out.
Violent Crimes among the typical demographics for "violent" video games has gone down every year since Video Games started being a thing.
Is it because of them? Probably not, people are just becoming better educated and probably some other factors.
I'm highly interactive when I'm practicing the ole "solo pants party" but I don't for a minute get confused about what is fantasy and what is reality and frankly that activity is far closer motion wise to the actual acts.
Firing a gun, stabbing a person, strangling someone, lighting someone on fire, these things are all grossly separated from the act of using a controller.
NOW once VR is super realistic and you can't differentiate, maybe, I could see that possibly maybe causing problems.
Maybe.
But really its not that these things make killers, its just that people who are highly likely to kill are left without help long enough and something triggers them.
If it weren't games it would be music.
If it weren't music it would be movies.
If it weren't movies it would be books.
If it weren't books it would be squirrels eating those damn nuts outside my window in the mornings...
taunting me...
Little bastards.
The reason being? I remember being 10, I remember playing violent games, seeing R rated films, and seeing some of my first adult films and magazines.disgruntledgamer said:
I'm not exactly running around raping, stabbing, and terrorizing people. It also didn't have any appreciable impact on my childhood.
You know what did?
Relentless bullying by sports students.
But I'm not entirely keen on banning sports.
Anywho I digressed, what is the reason?
This makes an awful lot of popular physicists apparently retarded. >.>...gamegod25 said:
An excellent video Jim, you've done quite a good job with this one.
I had not seen the Budd Dwyer incident before, and while it didn't completely shock me (I have seen far worse things on the internet) it most certainly did churn my stomach around. It was very depressing, and very unfortunate that such an event occurred.
Still, the points you made were excellent. They did a terrific job of articulating my thoughts, as many other people have already said.
As for the whole "any sane civilian is going to be terrified of guns..." line... I somewhat agree with you. As an avid firearms enthusiast I can safely say that firearms do not terrify me. Unless, they are in the hands of those who are dangerous, or inexperienced. So I suppose in that sense, any regular civilian should be terrified of guns. If you do not understand proper gun safety, or you have not handled guns before, you certainly should treat them with a healthy amount of respect and fear.
That being said, while it may not have been intentional the wording does imply a negative connotation towards those like my self who are gun enthusiasts. Just because we are not disturbed by a neutral firearm, that does not mean we are any less sane than anyone else.
I had not seen the Budd Dwyer incident before, and while it didn't completely shock me (I have seen far worse things on the internet) it most certainly did churn my stomach around. It was very depressing, and very unfortunate that such an event occurred.
Still, the points you made were excellent. They did a terrific job of articulating my thoughts, as many other people have already said.
As for the whole "any sane civilian is going to be terrified of guns..." line... I somewhat agree with you. As an avid firearms enthusiast I can safely say that firearms do not terrify me. Unless, they are in the hands of those who are dangerous, or inexperienced. So I suppose in that sense, any regular civilian should be terrified of guns. If you do not understand proper gun safety, or you have not handled guns before, you certainly should treat them with a healthy amount of respect and fear.
That being said, while it may not have been intentional the wording does imply a negative connotation towards those like my self who are gun enthusiasts. Just because we are not disturbed by a neutral firearm, that does not mean we are any less sane than anyone else.
On my more morbid days I enjoy my simulated carnage and I can't count my kill number in videogames on the digits of a stadium packed with people. Yet, I skipped the footage, too afraid of how sad and horrified I would be. Also, the news comments at the end made me begin to snarl unconsciously and want to vomit with rage...at the news racket. From the coliseums to your tv sets, er, smart phones folks. *slow, sarcastic clapping* Thank God (or whatever deity) for Jim Sterling.
Not really. Violence in video games is a none-crime. They're easy to identify fakeness and no victim. Violence in Video games doesn't encourage people to go out and shoot someone, nor does it glorify such a suggestion.Spearmaster said:
Sexism in video games, can be horrendously sexist depending on the context. In such as Duke Nukem 3D, the sexist element is in keeping with the Duke image. It's a spoof of muscle-bound action hero stero-types and the sexism is part of that spoofing. Duke Nukem 3D in my opinion was far better at sending the message that sexism is for assholes than, say, Sucker Punch.
In contrast to that though is the explosion of (especially in MMORPG) of stereotyped women. The females in these games have universally worryingly thin waists, supporting massive Breasts, wearing heavy armour which is basically non-existant, often taking the form of little more than a skimpy metal bikini. Usualy drawn into loading screens with in highly questionable poses.It's the lack of variety and common occurence which make this sexist. Women in such games are objectified and reduced to this one form, while men typically have a much greater variety of body shapes to choose from. Including over-weight in many games. Women are not given the same choices. They can be small, thin with big boobs, medium height, thin with big boobs or tall, thin with big boobs.
All women are victimised by the impression that this prevelence sends.
I have never EVER watched a Saw movie or it's like in my life. The main reason? It disturbs the hell out of me. At times my morbid curiosity gets the better of me and I have a peek, then instantly regret it. Plenty of games I've played have violence, mayhem, and death but still I refuse to watch horror movies. Often the gore in movies is more realistic than in video games because most movies are live-action and want their content to look real as possible which tends to go unnoticed by the media in lieu of bashing games. To make another case; I found The Girl with the Dragon Tatoo hard to watch due to the violence inflicted by the antagonists and felt very disturbed by it (this is not a negative review of the movie in anyway.)
Much like Jim I play plently of shooter games but I rightly fear guns because of all the danger they hold if you're not careful. I don't even have a driver's license because I get nervous behind the wheel of a large metal construct capable of injuring people even at low speeds.
Much like Jim I play plently of shooter games but I rightly fear guns because of all the danger they hold if you're not careful. I don't even have a driver's license because I get nervous behind the wheel of a large metal construct capable of injuring people even at low speeds.
Next time can you put a few seconds padding between the horrific parts of the show and the nonhorrific, tried to skip on a tablet and I ended up at 1:47 instead of 1:49
I really, and I mean really, can't stand this guy which is why it annoys me to no end when he is right on so many levels,
especially the media celbritising these killers.
I have played a lot of violent video games and yet real violence scares me to no end. I hate confrontation and will often avoid it if possible and that clip will haunt me forever. I will, however, go on to say that I believe age restrictions on games need to be taken more seriously, as there are those who easily influenced, especially those who are very young, who may make a poor judgement or grow up believing that violence is ok. This is even more important if the next generation of gaming is near photo realistic as the lines between reality and media may be skewed even further.
Good episode, regardless, and I really hope this persona is literally just for the show and "entertainment" purposes.
especially the media celbritising these killers.
I have played a lot of violent video games and yet real violence scares me to no end. I hate confrontation and will often avoid it if possible and that clip will haunt me forever. I will, however, go on to say that I believe age restrictions on games need to be taken more seriously, as there are those who easily influenced, especially those who are very young, who may make a poor judgement or grow up believing that violence is ok. This is even more important if the next generation of gaming is near photo realistic as the lines between reality and media may be skewed even further.
Good episode, regardless, and I really hope this persona is literally just for the show and "entertainment" purposes.
While I didn't like the suicide part I see why Jimothy Sterling used it. He wanted to show the point that real violence was different then video game violence by showing the difference not in a verbal way thats been argued a hundred times over. But in a visual way an effective way. I for one would defend the way in which it is. Why ? Simple for once the news ( to whom shows real violence all the time ) is being shown that the community at large does in fact despise real violence. I for one wouldn't be surprised if members of the site wanted this to be taken down for said reason. In that light we can't be the one's " glorifying " violence it would be C.N.N , Fox news , and other " news " outlets onto which show real violence as the " glorifiers " of violence. Besides here is one question I'd like answered by the media. Which news outlet released the killers face first video game sites or traditional news outlets ?
First, congratulations Jim, for another great video. Hope it reaches those who need to see this argument.
While you were mentioning how mass media exploits actual violence, I remembered the incident where the picture of a man about to be run over by the NY subway ended on the cover of a newspaper. Classy, real classy.
While you were mentioning how mass media exploits actual violence, I remembered the incident where the picture of a man about to be run over by the NY subway ended on the cover of a newspaper. Classy, real classy.
Sterling,
Gotta say, I loved this video. Its about time somebody in or close to the industry took a decent stand against the media. The violent bit didn't really phase me in the slightest, but that's cause I've seen worse (unfortunately) but I believe it was necessary to the video to show it, to prove the point that they are very different things.
If the media wants to point the finger at games, then it basically has to point it at Movies, Music, TV, Internet and even Books. The amount of fake violence we encounter from day to day life is ridiculous, but to focus on just one area of it is even more so.
Gotta say, I loved this video. Its about time somebody in or close to the industry took a decent stand against the media. The violent bit didn't really phase me in the slightest, but that's cause I've seen worse (unfortunately) but I believe it was necessary to the video to show it, to prove the point that they are very different things.
If the media wants to point the finger at games, then it basically has to point it at Movies, Music, TV, Internet and even Books. The amount of fake violence we encounter from day to day life is ridiculous, but to focus on just one area of it is even more so.
wolfyrik said:
"Not really. Violence in video games is a none-crime. They're easy to identify fakeness and no victim. Violence in Video games doesn't encourage people to go out and shoot someone, nor does it glorify such a suggestion."
Cant most of these points be made for sexism in games also? Easy to identify fakeness? Is this a double standard? Also how do violent video games not glorify violence when they give you rewards for it? Sexism in games does not give a reward for committing sexism, well perhaps some Japanese games do.
The points you made tell what sexism is in games but I still don't see how Jim's argument for violence in video games cant be applied to sexism in video games, its not real and people can tell the difference, what if his video was on sexism instead and instead of the suicide clip he showed a XXX rated hardcore pornographic clip of a submissive woman in a maids outfit pleasuring a man, just to show how sexism in games is fake and how people can tell the difference so it doesn't really affect them. Just like violence.
I don't like sexism in games, I was just using it for a parallel to show the weakness in both arguments.
I am a regular follower of the escapist for several years now. I even recommend it to a lot of other people, since part of my work and art deals with the critical examination of 'games'.
Now I finally signed up and made an account, just to be able to comment on this video.
So Jim, you just earned the "Made someone overcome his 'I-do-not-want-to-register-here!'-attitude" achievement.
Thank you for your effort, to show the video as you did. The way you dealt with this really delicate matter was very responsible, with the age-check and all. I was really surprised, when the window showed up, and I was shocked, when I saw the footage. I haven't seen it before, it deeply shocked me...
...and it was the best, straight to the face approach to the whole 'violent games make violent kids'-discussion in society and media.
What I especially like, is that you not only put the finger on the sex&violence promoting strategies of the mass media, but you also reflect a very important fact about the various members of the modern gaming-culture: they are responsible!
Since the early 80's young people with an affinity to hightech and computers were put in the geek-clichee. Over the last 30 years the 'gamer-clichee' split from that and... but I am changing subject here.
Back to 'they are responsible': By giving feedback about the gamers reaction and the discussions with the escapist management you showed, that gamers are very well aware of what they consume and to what extend. It also showed, that the gaming community is willing to speak up and discuss a disturbing issue like this, which shows civil-courage and social engagement. Funny, considering the fact, that most mass-media presents gamers as isolated, more or less dysfunctional screen-addicts.
This very mature approach on violence, the constructive reactions from the viewers, gamers and escapists also helps our beloved medium, the game, to become a more mature, critic and responsible medium. A piece of art.
I am thankful, I had the Jimquisition here
So long
Shendril
Now I finally signed up and made an account, just to be able to comment on this video.
So Jim, you just earned the "Made someone overcome his 'I-do-not-want-to-register-here!'-attitude" achievement.
Thank you for your effort, to show the video as you did. The way you dealt with this really delicate matter was very responsible, with the age-check and all. I was really surprised, when the window showed up, and I was shocked, when I saw the footage. I haven't seen it before, it deeply shocked me...
...and it was the best, straight to the face approach to the whole 'violent games make violent kids'-discussion in society and media.
What I especially like, is that you not only put the finger on the sex&violence promoting strategies of the mass media, but you also reflect a very important fact about the various members of the modern gaming-culture: they are responsible!
Since the early 80's young people with an affinity to hightech and computers were put in the geek-clichee. Over the last 30 years the 'gamer-clichee' split from that and... but I am changing subject here.
Back to 'they are responsible': By giving feedback about the gamers reaction and the discussions with the escapist management you showed, that gamers are very well aware of what they consume and to what extend. It also showed, that the gaming community is willing to speak up and discuss a disturbing issue like this, which shows civil-courage and social engagement. Funny, considering the fact, that most mass-media presents gamers as isolated, more or less dysfunctional screen-addicts.
This very mature approach on violence, the constructive reactions from the viewers, gamers and escapists also helps our beloved medium, the game, to become a more mature, critic and responsible medium. A piece of art.
I am thankful, I had the Jimquisition here
So long
Shendril
That clip was too tough for me to watch. I had to look away. Ughhhh... Valid points as always. Thank god for you, Jim.