Jimquisition: Desensitized to Violence

[Althenias]

I agree completely with you on the sandy hook shooting, I understand people want to know about this traumatic event but the way the killer was given 24 hour news coverage was appalling. The news studios need to flip these events, if they're going to cover them. focus on the victims, on what they're going through and let the killer be forgotten, punished and forgotten.

 

[O maestre]

hmmm odd i didn't get to big of a reaction from the video, either i have seen it before and can't remember or have become desensitized, although i do not believe it is on account of gaming but rather from my previous work as firefighter if anything. traffic accidents and building collapses have given me insight into injuries just as "messy" as the suicide... the most disturbing thing has to be dead children, now that is nightmarish on a whole other level.

 

[Godhead]

You know, I think that you can find gamers feel uncomfortable with violence in video games too. I know for a fact that I felt like shit with Spec Ops: The Line, and all of my friends who I got to play with, who all play "violent video games" on a pretty regular basis, said that it was fucked up.

If presented well, violence in video games, even though it will never be as realistic and be a little cartoony in comparison to real life, can still make you feel bad.

 

[almostgold]

"Any sane civilian is going to be terrified of guns".

Well fuck you, Jim. Thanks for calling me insane, along with most of my family.

 

[Reincarnatedwolfgod]

i did not watch the Budd Dwyer suicide part. i have seen it before and have no desire to ever see it again.
i agree and a video. nothing said in the video is new to me. so i got nothing to contribution beyond a more in-dept video on the subject of video game violence, the recent shooting, and the media

Spoiler

 

[Fornus]

'Any sane civilian is gonna be terrified of guns"
I disagree, as an avid hunter and legal owner of firearms, which in my country entails mental health checks and a licensing regime, Id say that most fear of firearms is borne of ignorance and the mysticism/glorification of firearms in the media, be they video games or movies.

Once you understand how they work, respect the inherent hazards, and use them responsibly, the mysticism and fear is gone.
You realise they are a tool and that you need to be more worried about the person holding them than blaming the the tool itself.
As with any tool, there are accidents, and there are criminal misuses.
Media has tried so hard to instill into the public a scary image of firearms, anyone who has used one knows its mostly fabrication and demonising.

Im amazed more people arent afraid of knives, if COD teaches gamers anything, its that a man can run through your hail of bullets and stab you in the throat if hes close enough..
Of course, the difference is pretty much everyone has wielded a knife, and understand what it is, how its dangerous, its limitations etc., and thats its more about being wary of the person holding it.

Totally agree with the difference between video game gore and real-life violence, ones fun, over-the-top, and disposable, the other is gruesome, smelly and permanent.

 

[Akimoto]

Jim, I don't understand why time is still wasted on talking to people who are dead convinced that violent games create Mr. Hydes. Haven't we as a community been down this road before? Heck, my parents still believe that anime is only for kids - my point being that maybe it's better for us gamers to sink back into obscurity.

Great show nevertheless, but I won't be watching it again. Now excuse me while I get some comfort food and hope to attain your glorious size.

 

[Mr F.]

While I didn't like the suicide part I see why Jimothy Sterling used it. He wanted to show the point that real violence was different then video game violence by showing the difference not in a verbal way thats been argued a hundred times over. But in a visual way an effective way. I for one would defend the way in which it is. Why ? Simple for once the news ( to whom shows real violence all the time ) is being shown that the community at large does in fact despise real violence. I for one wouldn't be surprised if members of the site wanted this to be taken down for said reason. In that light we can't be the one's " glorifying " violence it would be C.N.N , Fox news , and other " news " outlets onto which show real violence as the " glorifiers " of violence. Besides here is one question I'd like answered by the media. Which news outlet released the killers face first video game sites or traditional news outlets ?

Guh.

My girlfriend pointed me towards the video (And the thread) based on the logic that she would get to see some wonderful, wonderful rage on my part. She does so love my rants.

Gonna jump over your first arguments and strait to your assumptions that in comparison to games, it is the News media that glorifies violence. If informing people of a situation is the glorification of a situation, then I glorify racism. I am currently glorifying in the mire of Sociology (As I am being informed of a situation). The authors who write books glorify the subject matter of the book, regardless of what the book is about. I glorify the act of rape because a poem I once wrote got into a book about dealing with rape. Huh. Your logic is broken.

See, that is all I am picking apart here. Yes, the news media shows "Real" violence whilst gamers dont have to deal with real violence. Yet one is to inform (And entertain, to a degree, depends on the news outlet) and the other is to purely entertain. I don't watch the news (Or read it, as is more common with me) because I love seeing the corpses of young Syrian men. I watch it because I wish to remain informed as to the hell these people are going through.

Finally, the question you wish to ask the media:
Of course it was the fucking news media that released his face first. Gaming websites do not cover that kind of story, gaming websites do not have the resources to cover that kind of story. You might as well say "I want to know which media showed fight scenes from Soul Calibur" and use that as proof that gaming media is more violent then the reverse.

This argument is not as simple as Jim would like to argue. But I wont drag myself into the mire of this thread.

Just pick apart a single post, point out the mistakes in the logic and the central argument, and then step out.

 

[Falsename]

.....Wow. That was incredible!

The point he made was good, sure. And I fully agree but the thing that captured my attention the most was that...

THAT WAS THE MOST SATISFYING 'FUCK OFF' I'VE EVER HEARD!

Jim: "Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff-uck off!"

And it was executed with such style. The ramp up actually whistled for a moment before hitting the crescendo.

Love you Jim.



Also, completely agree. It's just one of many reasons why games can't be blamed for violence. But of course we're all wrong and the NRA is completely right in that Americans should have armed guards at their school and easier access to guns. Why? Because 'the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun'.

NRA, in the words of the only man on Earth that matters: "Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff-uck off".

 

[Wesley Brannock]

While I didn't like the suicide part I see why Jimothy Sterling used it. He wanted to show the point that real violence was different then video game violence by showing the difference not in a verbal way thats been argued a hundred times over. But in a visual way an effective way. I for one would defend the way in which it is. Why ? Simple for once the news ( to whom shows real violence all the time ) is being shown that the community at large does in fact despise real violence. I for one wouldn't be surprised if members of the site wanted this to be taken down for said reason. In that light we can't be the one's " glorifying " violence it would be C.N.N , Fox news , and other " news " outlets onto which show real violence as the " glorifiers " of violence. Besides here is one question I'd like answered by the media. Which news outlet released the killers face first video game sites or traditional news outlets ?

Guh.

My girlfriend pointed me towards the video (And the thread) based on the logic that she would get to see some wonderful, wonderful rage on my part. She does so love my rants.

Gonna jump over your first arguments and strait to your assumptions that in comparison to games, it is the News media that glorifies violence. If informing people of a situation is the glorification of a situation, then I glorify racism. I am currently glorifying in the mire of Sociology (As I am being informed of a situation). The authors who write books glorify the subject matter of the book, regardless of what the book is about. I glorify the act of rape because a poem I once wrote got into a book about dealing with rape. Huh. Your logic is broken.

See, that is all I am picking apart here. Yes, the news media shows "Real" violence whilst gamers dont have to deal with real violence. Yet one is to inform (And entertain, to a degree, depends on the news outlet) and the other is to purely entertain. I don't watch the news (Or read it, as is more common with me) because I love seeing the corpses of young Syrian men. I watch it because I wish to remain informed as to the hell these people are going through.

Finally, the question you wish to ask the media:
Of course it was the fucking news media that released his face first. Gaming websites do not cover that kind of story, gaming websites do not have the resources to cover that kind of story. You might as well say "I want to know which media showed fight scenes from Soul Calibur" and use that as proof that gaming media is more violent then the reverse.

This argument is not as simple as Jim would like to argue. But I wont drag myself into the mire of this thread.

Just pick apart a single post, point out the mistakes in the logic and the central argument, and then step out.

The point to " inform " the people has long since left the media now its about making killers famous REAL killers mind you not fictional ones. If " informing " now a days means constantly covering a story to the point of harassing the families of murder victims then yes they are " informing ". If " informing " means that your going to turn everything you don't approve of into a WITCH HUNT because something " newsworthy " happened then yes they are " informing ". If " informing " means telling people that the guns , video games , or whatever is to blame then yes they are " informing ". If " informing " means covering only one story of lives being lost all week long then yes they are " informing ". The line between " informing " and glorifying is thin. However on a almost daily basis is being stomped on , spit on by the very people to whom are SUPPOSED to uphold it. My way of confirming this is the FACT in less then ten minutes they managed to politicize it. They politicized it by pointing a finger at everyone but the killer. I can't take the view point of a " news " company seriously when they cover a school shooting and follow it by saying. " This is responsible for the mass killing is ( enter preference ) instead of the shooter ". That person who shot up the school was to blame for the incident yet they will instead blame whatever scapegoat they can find. While people will call it " informing " when instead it simply a format for demonizing that to which had no part in any wrong doing. Tell me did a video game pull the trigger or a PERSON. Did the gun pull its own trigger or did that require a PERSON. Did the entire society kill those kids or did one PERSON do it. All I blame the media for is turning the killer into a star of sorts. People that do horrible things should be forgotten in time while the teachers that used their own bodies to shield the children from a rain of bullets should be remember for their bravery. Yet most people can only remember the name and face of the shooter. Why ? Simple the " news " wanted to " inform " people. ( This is the one and only response I will do. )

 

[Levethian]

Hrm. With your emphasis on the presentation of violence within games, are you suggesting that if violence was depicted in a 'properly realistic' manner akin to the suicide clip, it should disturb me? For me, knowing that something is fictional is the critical distinction - context, not so much how it looks.

Thank God for you.

And RE the above debates, the job of News Media is surely to secure readers/viewers, not necessarily to inform...

 

[KiloFox]

Do you reckon you could edit it what the graphic content is in the description so people know what it is?

Can someone explain to me what the purpose of what happened in the content was? As in why the person did it?

i actually do wanna know why. when he pulled out the gun everyone freaked, but it looked like he was gonna try and demonstrate a point but never got around to it. i would like some context.


OT though, i actually wasn't disturbed at all on the footage. he pulled the gun, people freaked, he looked like he was trying to calm them down to explain something, they got louder, he shot himself. i had the same expression the entire time, and i didn't really feel any different before, after, or during. now i'm not gonna claim that games desensitized me to violence, that's bullshit. i'm just broken in the head naturally and i know that. in fact, i have the intelligence to hide it most of the time and never do anything about it. and just because i, in particular, wasn't disturbed, dosn't mean that nobody else was. i am not a representation of the rest of gamers, and neither is anyone else who plays games then goes out killing people. they're just a small minority of people who are already broken, but just happen to play games. i'm just smart enough not to go bat-shit insane and do something stupid like that. i enjoy living free to play my games and be my weird-ass self.

 

[Brad Gardner]

I'm kinda scared atm cause seeing that guy blow his brains out didn't effect me at all. I'm not saying movies and VG have desevtised me. But I guess seeing it on a screem instead of face to face makes it unreal to me

 

[Brad Gardner]

Do you reckon you could edit it what the graphic content is in the description so people know what it is?

Can someone explain to me what the purpose of what happened in the content was? As in why the person did it?

i actually do wanna know why. when he pulled out the gun everyone freaked, but it looked like he was gonna try and demonstrate a point but never got around to it. i would like some context.


OT though, i actually wasn't disturbed at all on the footage. he pulled the gun, people freaked, he looked like he was trying to calm them down to explain something, they got louder, he shot himself. i had the same expression the entire time, and i didn't really feel any different before, after, or during. now i'm not gonna claim that games desensitized me to violence, that's bullshit. i'm just broken in the head naturally and i know that. in fact, i have the intelligence to hide it most of the time and never do anything about it. and just because i, in particular, wasn't disturbed, dosn't mean that nobody else was. i am not a representation of the rest of gamers, and neither is anyone else who plays games then goes out killing people. they're just a small minority of people who are already broken, but just happen to play games. i'm just smart enough not to go bat-shit insane and do something stupid like that. i enjoy living free to play my games and be my weird-ass self.

I think I know why it's not destibing to me. I saw 2 planes run into buildings for 5 months over and over and over and saw a man jumping out a 100 story building over and over. I think Jim is right the violance in the News is fucking us up more than a VG or fiction.

 

[dfphetteplace]

I'm not going to go through the 400 and some comments on this thread, but I am going to add my 2 cents (which will probably be buried and no one will read). I'm a firefighter/paramedic. I have seen death. I've seen a child die. I've been the one to pronounce the time of death for a 10 year old girl that was violently killed. I think about her every day.

I've seen a wife run over by her husband 3 times. I've done CPR on a 3 month old. I've pulled a man out of an ice covered river. I've seen a child die from abuse. I've had to testify in court over the physical and sexual abuse of a 4 year boy that would have continued had I not reported and documented all of it. I've had to remove a suicide victim from his semi truck that shot himself twice, first in the head, and then the chest (he lived through the first shot).

I have played games as long as I can remember. I played the first Mortal Kombat when it came out, and have played tons of "violent" video games since. So I have seen real death, and also the video game stuff. I couldn't watch the video of the man killing himself. I had no interest in watching it. I have seen enough death in real life, up close and personal, and don't want to see anymore unless I have to. I don't even like to see it on shows like Law and Order, CSI, Criminal Minds, or any of the other ones.

I am currently playing Sleeping Dogs, and I just finished Saints Row The Third. Video games to not bother me, at all. Like Jim said, it is over the top fake cartoon violence. I am disgusted by these pundits who say video games cause violence. Now, do I let my small child watch me play some games? No. He doesn't need to see it, even if it is over the top, because I think my son is too young to see anything like that so far. But I am not going to keep the stuff from him forever (he is a preschooler if you are curious).

Like I said, I'm a paramedic, and I do not like to see death. Not real death, at least. I have no problem with people that have died natural deaths, and I can, for the most part, handle most stuff without a second thought. I have had people hang themselves, overdose, ect. Those don't bother me that much. I find nothing fascinating about a violent death, though. If I could stop thinking about that little girl, I would.

I have played "violent" video games for close to 20 years now. I have no problem shooting someone in the head in TF2, or crushing someone under an engine block in Sleeping Dogs. I have seen both of those things happen in real life, and there is no comparison. They are completely different. One is a cartoon, the other is the end of someones life.

I couldn't watch the coverage of the Sandy Hook shooting. I cried when I heard about it. I can not look at the pictures of the victims. I cried not just for the kids that died, but for the children that survived, and the parents of both, and the EMS, fire, and police that responded to that call. The EMS station was next door to the school. I know that would have been my last day on the job.

I hope this gives someone pause if they think that video games desensitize people to real life violence.

 

[Adfest]

I'm not going to go through the 400 and some comments on this thread, but I am going to add my 2 cents (which will probably be buried and no one will read). I'm a firefighter/paramedic. I have seen death. I've seen a child die. I've been the one to pronounce the time of death for a 10 year old girl that was violently killed. I think about her every day.

I've seen a wife run over by her husband 3 times. I've done CPR on a 3 month old. I've pulled a man out of an ice covered river. I've seen a child die from abuse. I've had to testify in court over the physical and sexual abuse of a 4 year boy that would have continued had I not reported and documented all of it. I've had to remove a suicide victim from his semi truck that shot himself twice, first in the head, and then the chest (he lived through the first shot).

I have played games as long as I can remember. I played the first Mortal Kombat when it came out, and have played tons of "violent" video games since. So I have seen real death, and also the video game stuff. I couldn't watch the video of the man killing himself. I had no interest in watching it. I have seen enough death in real life, up close and personal, and don't want to see anymore unless I have to. I don't even like to see it on shows like Law and Order, CSI, Criminal Minds, or any of the other ones.

I am currently playing Sleeping Dogs, and I just finished Saints Row The Third. Video games to not bother me, at all. Like Jim said, it is over the top fake cartoon violence. I am disgusted by these pundits who say video games cause violence. Now, do I let my small child watch me play some games? No. He doesn't need to see it, even if it is over the top, because I think my son is too young to see anything like that so far. But I am not going to keep the stuff from him forever (he is a preschooler if you are curious).

Like I said, I'm a paramedic, and I do not like to see death. Not real death, at least. I have no problem with people that have died natural deaths, and I can, for the most part, handle most stuff without a second thought. I have had people hang themselves, overdose, ect. Those don't bother me that much. I find nothing fascinating about a violent death, though. If I could stop thinking about that little girl, I would.

I have played "violent" video games for close to 20 years now. I have no problem shooting someone in the head in TF2, or crushing someone under an engine block in Sleeping Dogs. I have seen both of those things happen in real life, and there is no comparison. They are completely different. One is a cartoon, the other is the end of someones life.

I couldn't watch the coverage of the Sandy Hook shooting. I cried when I heard about it. I can not look at the pictures of the victims. I cried not just for the kids that died, but for the children that survived, and the parents of both, and the EMS, fire, and police that responded to that call. The EMS station was next door to the school. I know that would have been my last day on the job.

I hope this gives someone pause if they think that video games desensitize people to real life violence.

Not overlooked.

I basically jumped to page 12 to say the same thing. Especially the part about not being able to watch the coverage. Hell I couldn't even read the damn coverage in public. I spent nearly 5 years working in the ER of a major city and have seen my share of the results of violence, including death, which as we both know is not the worst thing that can happen to a person. Another 5 years in the mental health field (which, while somewhat related to the issue, is such a huge bag of cats that I'm not even going to go into details here). No violent media prepares you or "desensitizes" you to violence and death. Especially video games. And as you said, not even all that death and negativity in the real world truly desensitized me. If anything it made me more sensitive to it.

Great video, Jim. Excellent point made. Don't count on it getting much of a positive reaction. But then I guess you already know that isn't really possible considering the subject.

 

[SkellgrimOrDave]

If you want a truly realistic version of anything, mod Call of Duty so that everyone shot doesn't die immediately if at all. Grenades make people's bowels tear inside their bodies and leave them screaming in agony or in shock. Shoot someone in the chest and watch them choke and drown on their own blood. Shoot someone in the leg and watch them bleed out unconscious within seconds. In the head? Skull fragment and brain out of a tiny hole, still not enough to kill them guaranteed sometimes. Rifle butting someone leaves them with broken bones and crying on the floor. Stabbing someone leaves them bleeding out and praying to whatever god they believe in as bile enters their bloodstream, guaranteeing a slow death by septisemia.

And on top of that, hook up a smell system to the game, so people can smell what someone uncontrollably shitting themselves is like, along with the irony smell of blood, decaying bodies and the smell of freshly fired gunpowder.

On top of that, show a funeral after every enemy killed where their loved ones, children, wives, grey-haired fathers, mothers, grandparents, cousins and everyone they made a good impression on weep for them.

Then pull a Johnny got his gun ending and have the player character shown only a black screen, with "Tap X to attempt to communicate with the outside world using only banging your head in morse code" written on it. And you can't turn it off.

Even that's not as bad as real violence. Sweet dreams everyone.

 

[Brad Gardner]

Like I said last time I think the news and historical videos of JFK assassination has made real death on tv less of a big deal, but I decided to do some research to get the context of the suicide meaning I look at the wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Budd_Dwyer

I've know people try and kill themselves that I would call friend one for the grace of God or random insane luck didn't succeed as well as I've know a man to kill himself for feeling he could take care of his family.

I think I would need someone shot within my presenance to be shock cause I think I distance myself and believe that the thing on TV/Internet isn't real. Of course, I have a few mental illness and have been raped twice and I'm a male. A little tmi but eeh.

 

[Ben Los]

I agreed with almost everything Jim said. There's just one thing I have contention with: Being able to distinguish between real violence and fake violence is not something we're born with. It's a learned skill that develops in most of us as our brains grow. Young kids (especially below age 6-8 or so) have a difficult time distinguishing reality from fiction. Moreover, the younger they are (up to a point), many of them tend to be mimic-machines. So as such, I do believe there is still a crucial responsibility for parents to keep realistically violent games out of sight from those kids.

On another subject, the attack on the news media was spot on. This really needs to be fixed or our current domino-effect of school shootings will perpetuate itself. It really makes me sick.

 

[Zer_]

Desensitized to Violence

Description: Warning -- Contains graphic content. If you don't want to see disturbing Internet things, skip the footage starting at 1:20 and ending at 1:49.
As the mainstream news media continues to revel in the Sandy Hook shootings, its pundits point at the finger at videogames for reveling in digital violence. If you believe these hypocrites, your gaming hobby makes you cold and indifferent to scenes of death and destruction. If you believe the Jimquisition - and you should, for its word is law - you'll know that's bollocks.

Watch Video

Man that was disturbing. It reminds me of some footage from police dashcam where the policeman stops a pickup truck on some US highway. The policeman approaches the driver's side, and the driver comes out. He's dressed like a Vietnam veteran. Things go sour, and the cop shows incredible restraint when the man reaches into his pickup to pull out a rifle. A firefight ensues. You don't actually see much of the violence, but you can hear it. The police officer takes a few hits, and goes to hide behind his squad car. You can hear him screaming for backup. You can tell he is wounded pretty badly as well. The assailant walks towards the officer, and you can hear the policeman beg for his life. And you hear another gunshot, and it's silent. I enjoy all manner of violent video games, but that video shook me to the core. I'll never forget it.